mahak

Or, as in Omaha, get em out of here, bury them, but lets not close now, not before christmas, fer chrissake.

Theres that word again, that word that is not what is meant in regards to spiritual life, which personalizes such things to the post of Srimati Sraddha. Faith pertains to the material world and this illusion that has bound us. We can get off anytime in this simultaneous reality, multi dimensional trip, like Sri Dhruva Maharaja, who never faced Lord Yama, stepping on Death's head as he boards his vehicle to his eternal post as Lord of the Pole Star, the Vaikuntha planet visible to the mundane eye. But as long as we have faith in the material phantasmagoria, the ship of our own will not land. Let us describe the gifts of the material world. Technology has advanced to such a great degree, that when one sits down to dinner, one can immediately speak with a citizen of Addid Abbaba who wonders about your Capital One payment. Ahhh. Such advancement. And the glorious financial opulences. And the peace on earth and the good will to man promoted by the advancement of science, social reform, the humanities. Here is the chip, you dont even have to put it on your forehead, it will be in your morning cheerios. Some deny control by others. They think waters is a nutcase speaking about the worms, and we get the same treatment when speaking about reptilian nagas who rule this planet of death. Some dont want to think about it while they declare independence and pledge allegiance to flags and border patrols. But the fact is, we are so totally bound, and we cannot artificially rid ourselves of these shakles of Babylon. They say "flu" and we rush for injection. They say terrorism, and we give permission for fascism. They say "Conspiracy theorist" and all the truth is rejected immediately because the speaker has no official sanction. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is canvassing for those outside the wall, outside the box of control. We are not speaking artificial renunciation, the classic line of Prabhupada, speaking "The hypocracy of drinking water underwater while bathing on a fast day." We are speaking of education in reality, a separation from the contrivance convenient lies that are these very chains of Babylon and going where the actual self KNOWS the TRUE from fabricated propaganda. I have no faith, I gave it up when I studied Didyamous Thomas, and discovered that Lord Jesus Christ did not reject him because he wanted to see if his hands really bore the marks of assassination. I cannot "believe" in science, it has given me nothing except maybe this internet, oh, and maybe my car, oh, yeah, and the other stuff (Remember the Jerk with Steve Martin, renouncing everything except what he NEEDS). What has modern science done to claim guruship of ones life? Id really like to know, because my car is ten years past dead, the humanity sciences are quite water boarded these daze, and that other dimension is getting more and more visible as the smoke clears a bit. Heck, they dont even know math. They cannot build pyramids with their zeroes, there is no void. The ancestral human species built them with nine ball, a simple abacus can outdo any super-computer based on non-existance, the void, the zero. Cmon, mahak, abaci dont have you-tube. Maybe so, but if I werent so lazily inspired by economic science, another complete lying fraud, maybe Id grab my harmonium and do some songs with those from outside the walls, Siva, Yama, Yami, Bramha, Saraswati, Guha, Jatayu and dem other bleedin hearts and artists walking up and down outside the wall. If I am ddeemed mad, thanks, I guess I made my point. I was going to retire, but might as well keep yakkin for the next few daze before it all comes tumblin down. You see, we forgot the glue for this phantasmagoria, all our plans have gone awry. YS in friendship, mahaksadasa

Are you the one? Seeing thru the rhetoric is so out there, bro. Could imagine the response if I were to say the reason the demigods, in ages past, came to the earth so often and how they did it. It is because they walked, because Indraloka was perched atop Mt. Meru. Now there is a conspiracy for you. If we asked if Hanuman went to the moon, Id say yes, because he could do these things. But NASA? $700 dollar US toilet seat cover NASA? Sorry, thats like saying thet the Trident Submarine Program is functional and really works. Too much belief involved. I want real science, I want the Puskara vehicle, not some bogus lunar lander. Puskara Space vehicle has a forest aboard with fruit trees, not tanng mixed with your co-pilots urine sample. You di one, me too. Sorry, everready. mahak, the bleedin heart

havent read yet, but my gut response to the title of this thread is, yeah, its hard. Its hard to first get on the knees, then bend over and place head on the ground, and then say a prayer of gratitude, recognition, and love to the supreme lord who has never left our sides for a moment. But complicated? My guru maharaja says, "even a dog can take part." So why cant I. mahak

I cannot defend my perspective against those who have bought relative propaganda over absolute truth. Simply by chanting "conspiracy theory", one ends all thought on the subject matter, refuses intelligent analysis, and buys into the whole modernistic humanism. Chant the glories of NASA, but where is their success? None. If they went to the moon, why stop. Are we to believe they went thirty years ago, but soon will be prevented to even go to the space station 200 miles away, because their vehicle cannot make the trip. Go ahead, believe. This is your prerogative, and I do not fight you for your beliefs. However, my spiritual master would be branded "conspiracy theorist" accross the board. He knew secret agencies were manipulationg all the controversial groups in the sixties from the Malcolm X fiasco thru panthers and SDS, and including hare krsnas. He knew the modern science is fraudulent. He told of the science of nescience, based on lies and relative propaganda, including the bogus space program and the utter futility of such means of travel. No, he doesnt buy into material science, the lies of relative propaganda and disproved method of science. He is about absolute truth, that there is no political solution, that the altruists and do-gooders make more trouble than solution. "I wanna go home. Take off this uniform and leave the show. But Im sitting in the cell, and I have to know. Have I been guilty all this time? Time? Time?" (From the wall) Or all you have to do is "follow the worms." Me? PS. I saw that show two nights in a row at LA Sports Arena, ca 1980. very heavy. mahaksadasa

no way, Id rather get the flu than the cure. in this age, the solutions are always much more troublesome than the problem, and there is no greater example than modern medicing. Egg yolks? Id be more worried about aborted human fetuses. I know that many are infected and injected with the ridicule syndrome, and a simple assertion that that man is a "conspiracy theorist" is enough to get one discredited, but the fact remains that the written word is a lie. So there is all these cures, but why are more dying every year? If they have a cure for anything, one would at least expect a positive analysis of the facts of the cure. Are there any facts that flu is leess of a problem now than in the fifties? Prevention is something not covered by your HMO or the so-called altruists providing these shots. Keep fit, you donty get sick, I dont get sick, and Im a donut-arian. Fritoes for lunch. a kokanee for dinner.

regardless of wehether we like them, sovereign nations have the right to build their defense in such a way as to protect themselves. Outsiders who interfere may just have to deal with that. Their solution is what has made these so-called rogue nations build up their arsenels in the first place. The palestinian terrorists of the 80s and 90s were victims of Sharons terrorism in the 70s. There was no such thing as Al Qaida Iraq in 2003. (Actually, I dont believe in al qaida per se, this is just a creation of those who dominate with fascist fear mongering.) But Pak is sovereign, an outsider interfering with such sovereignty must pay yhe consequences for such unrighteous interferance. Same with Iran.

I worked for the military for many years, top secret projects. A friend of mine, bradford budd, was a construction person, heavy equipment, who moved from Long Beach Navy Shipyard to Ft Irwin, near death valley. He did a one week job in 73, to bull doze and rearrange dirt in the middle of nowhere. He unearthed a lunar lander, and quickly re-buried it under duress of some general in charge of the operation. In kali yuga, control by lies is what takes place. Lies of political nature, lies of economics, lies of what will gratify ones senses. So, I had opportunity to discover many such lies that if I spoke about here, Id be in Guantanimo bay by midnight. But it all comes down on who one has faith in, one who does not lie. Find such a person, there is where the TRUE exists. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaklsadasa

Hare krsna. Ill continue here, because yuga dharma is taking place here. Some contend that Srila Prabhupada was all about religion establishment and temple building, but this is never his program. Everything he does is to facillitate the chanting of hare krsna. All this idea about establishing the pancaaritika system, well, thats fine and dandy, for another age. The temples were established to facillitate chanting. Without chanting, temples are homes of gossip, faultfinding, control trips, you name it. Why is associatioin with devotees important in this age? because we chant hare krsna together, no other reason. We do not associate with one another to talk about how misguided our godbrothers are, whats new in the guru supermarket, or any of this other dry stuff. I was going to start another thread, but decided against it. My hare krsna thread was about time, about how little of it we have left even in the best of circumstances. Some say than one cannot just chant and that Srila Prabhupada never taught us to just chant. But this is exactly what his desire is. Not make a bunch of money to support religious nonsense and craete further factionalization. He established temples and even the introduction of deity worship, this is facility fopr us to chant. What else is there to do at a temple? What other reason would one come to such a place? If not for sravanam, kirtanam, visnoh smaranam, well, yall can drown yourselves in such things. So, get along with your created systems for initiation, the program of my spiritual master is to have us chant, kalau nasteva nasteva nasteve gatih anyatha. The choice is rathere simple, and there is still time, but maybe not a tomorrow. hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

some may prefer to get guru thru dog, to place a kali cela reptilian assassins in between themselves and the acarya, but I reject this.

I agree. Rtvik is just the other side of the elected/appointed guru coin. Except they say there will never be another guru, freezing the acarya in time like some followers of Jesus did. And, as I have always said, J9 was a device of TKG. There is no difference for them that they were rtvik or regular guru, the actions were the same and their goals were met euther way. Their goals were to CONTROL others, just as when Prabhupada was present. He "gave them everything THEY asked for". But what does he ask for? This is what the disciple must do, be, and everything connected with very existance. That is, become krsna conscious, so much so that ones cup is so full it spills over to all those around them. Everyone is looking for masters, yet Srila Prabhupada always teaches opposite, that this is the descending process, that we MUST search for a servant, then we are fixed up. No, not I, kula, dont do the rtvik shuffle of revisionism based on the teachings and maneuvers of TKG. No, no mo rtvik discussion here, the title of this thread is Hare Krsna, this is where we only speak that which will bring us back home, back to Godhead, and maybe a few other things, like express our friendship for all who take to this process. The time is now, tomorrow is too late, and may never come. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

you think the eleven had any respect for anyone else? These were the guys, perios. They met with each other to decide, and even then, the wars took place. But, no, there was never a GBC monitoring any gurus. If there were, then the zonal acarya trip would have never gotton off the ground. Does the clooege of cardinals have any sway with a presiding pope? Only when he is a corpse do they have anything at all to do, and then they do their job, only to suffer the results of their selection until that one dies. Maybe in the middle ages, they tried, made second and third popes, moved them from rome to constantinople, but they never had control of the outcome. The result is now a coptic pope (who I personally accept as the head of the foundation of Lord Jesus Christ's legacy), a roman pope, an orthodox pope, and their authority is never in the hands of fallible cardinals. Prabhupada criticized this very much, saying that a fallible one has no ability to deem another infallible. So if there was a gbc who managed infallible gurus, wouldnt the GBC be the guru and the guru they deem fit subordinate to their infallibility? Doint make any sense to me whatsoever.

Srila Prabhupada told a few of us to meet with him, without recorders. It is interesting that beggar pointed out secretaries answering for prabhupada. I know that prabhupadas mail was tampered with, severely, so much so, that I have rejected the letters altogether because of this fact. Ingoing mail and outgoing response was going on, and postmarks often prove this point. And Prabhupada was never even a part of this equasion. Soi, if we want to truely hear from prabhupada, we read his books. These are his full available teachings, I trust very little otherwise.

They were never commissioned to do this kind of work, never authorized to play the diksa guru appointment and approval (or even disapproval) business. While I dont think the rtvik movement is authorized either, ISKCON's leadership does have the responsibility to keep the program of their spiritual master continuing. The trouble is, this stuff with unrighteous leaders has been around too long, even predating Srila Prabhupadas disappearance. By continuing their attachment to leadership without being humble, there is no reform possible. Their irresponsible protection of jerks is unfathomable, but actually no more now than 30 years ago, when you had armed robbers and white slavers running the centers. The only difference is that now, they dont have to face Prabhupada with their evil intent, getting constantly badgered to do the right thing. Now they have carte blanche to do whatever they want without having to put up with the two week visits where they had to lie and blame everyone else for their own inability to even get the fact that their business is to first, become krsna conscious, which makes one develop vaiosnava character. They never became krsna conscious, therefore, there is no vaisnava character. A true vaisnava would do away with, immediately, anyone who even spoke harshly against Prabhupadas daughters or their children, let alone allow them to continbue in their false leadership positions. Where is the ksatriya whop protects those who have no other protection? Where is the brahmana who advises the leaders on proper behavior for a civilized human being, let alone one who presents himself as a vaisnava? Some say silence is permission, and on this point, I agree with PADA. But true vaisnava leadership is very rare, and may be so rare as to not even exist one iota within the structure of the foundation created by our guru maharaja. Maybe ISKCON has itself become unworthy, so how can it guide one unworthy person within its ranks? My bet is that iof they find one not worthy of being in ISKCON, because they themselves are unworthy as a whole, they have pointed out one who is actually more viable than themselves. Is it not a fact that many very nice devotees left either by choice or by force? Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa PS This scene is not unprecedented, christianity has been wracked for two millenia with the same malfeasance. A true christian is surely there, but seldom within a structure of any organization, ie terese avila, francis assisi, even tomas merton. The church wanted to expel the kids of Fatima, juan of guadaloupe, and yet they propel fascists and enablers of horrible manifest destiny genocidal doctrines throughout history.

Yes, but His Servant makes the valid point that the scriptures of Lord Jesus Christ take on entirely massive potency with bhagavad Gita used as the clarifier. A christian once asked Srila Prabhupada if he had to give up his faith to become krsna conscious, and His response was that he is not about changing religions, rather enhancing them, fulfilling them. Hare Krsna, ys, mahak

This is the point exactly. When we have mass approval of spiritual master, this is not the criteria. Romaraharsana had mass approval, yet Chaita Guru wasnt informed. Lord Balarama is the only one who authorized guru, he is the one who inspires a vaisnava to accept disciples on his behalf. If a GM or ISKCON or any other body assumes the role of deciding who is guru, then there is no guru tattwa as created by Lord Balarama involved. Its a crapshoot at best, meaning that such an appointee may be guru, but he may not be as well, and thus is a very dangerous assertation. This is my only gripe ever with ISKCON. Not the mistakes, not the bad choices for leadership positions, such things happen in a large or even small institution, and can be corrected, reformed, solved, etc. But when they say such and such is the guru of such and such, this is not proper not accepted by the criteria of guru-shastra-sadhu. It is one thing for me to say to someone, "I think BA Paramadvaiti Swami is a qualified guru in his own right, successfully carrying our parampara following in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada." It is quite different for me to insist that he is someone else's guru. There is good biblical reference to this very point, an absolute truth given by Lord Jesus to his disciple simon, but Ill refrain from posting here out of respect to thoise who may not accept such things. The point made is that God directs guru to disciple and disciple to guru, no one else. hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

Hariobol, inedible. You ask a good question, but I think the answers are not good. Not because bhaktajana didnt act with proper rewspect, but you asked for the minimum, and his answer was way too complex. My answer is this. The only thing that you really need is to understand that the material body, which includes the mental processes, is not the self. We are spirit, not matter. This is absolutely the minimum criteria for studying the Bhagavad Gita. With this goes the idea that there is a Supreme Being, one who is there for us at all times, to guide us on our spiritual path. The process of mantra meditation, the chanting of hare krsna, hare krsna, krsna krsna, hare hare. Hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare is the method of preparing ourselves for the study of Bhagavad Gita. We accept krsna as supreme, and we understand that we have no supremacy whatsoever. By chanting hare krsna, and simply reading bhagavad gita (As It Is, the complete vaisnava study by ILA AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada), in conjunction of understanding that we are spirit, not matter, this gives us the complete prerequisite for delving into this science in the company of our peers, which means those less advanced, those more advanced, and those who are on our own level. Srila Parbhupada tells us this is a gradual process, and we understand from realized experiance that advancement in this science, both the theory and the practical application of the science is not only possible, but guaranteed, if we merely stay the course. Good Luck to you, friend, all who use these forums are good sources and good association. Hare Krsna, sincerely, mahaksadasa

hop[e I dont get banned for this one, but it is quite a classic for us dyin 60s folk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZo2w7vQUOY

very good advice, because gurus are one, it is the disciples who struggle.

cmon, GV, you are supposed to help me break my attachment to good tunes, now you got me floyding again, "after all, were just pigs on the wing". Now I gotta go you-tube this great song:eek4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T30cQgHoRE&feature=related and and (cannot floyd without this one)

The point I have tried to make is that Srila Prabhupada may very well have a different relationship with my godbrother than he does with me, so what he says to him may be pertenent, but may not be as well. Again, if its all about submissive inquiry and answers by citing the Lords Version, then lets have the submissive inquiry as well. Otherwise, without knowing the circumstance of the communication exchange, it is all out of context, like the cut and paste preachers, who, like the proverbial devil, use scripture to verify their lies. So, Im the temple treasurer, and my job is to pick up the mail. The local sanyassi has a letter from prabhupada. Hes my guru, can I open the letter? Not if I value my spiritual life. There is nothing in any letter of his that is not fully covered in His books. No extra instruction. To feel a void, that one needs more than his books, this is unfortunate. The problem I think of is interference in guru-disciple relationship. Yes he is my master, but he is also my godbrothers master, and we are not one, we are very different, different perspective, different grasp on His teachings. Maybe he needs more basic stuff, maybe he is told secrets that pertain only to his devotional life, but I am me, He is he, and we are individually seeking guidance from the spiritual master. Again, I agree that the letters are perhaps treasures, but discernment is very essential, and knowing the circumstance of the communication is more than essential, it is life and death, becauswe interference in guru=-disciple relationships is quite suicidal. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa PS Also, the only thing prabhupada ever said about letters from guru to disciple are negative comments about the recipient's use of such letters to support their bogus claims of authority. He even said such letters were the reason that the GM got stalled for so long on the guru tattwa issue. That said, I like his letters much better than forgeries by bold and ambitious disciples who made directives and got signatures affixed.

PADAvadi. Thats where. Rebellion taken way past the useful stage. Rampant criticism goes well beyond the scope of that which is needed to be criticized, and the critic becomes full of his own teachings, then criticism of the faultless ensues. And when one lends ears to such nebvulous authority, the loudmouth reporter who is full of bias and makes news rather than report without attachment for his position as reporter, then all these false ideas are presented as truth. This is why one should avoid criticizing and even hearing such criticism. Satswarupa is not our problem, not our philosophy. There is no end of the drivel by those who think everyone is an awful devotee.

hey folks, thanks for putting up with my contemporary preaching with you tube. I know its all in the beholder, this art stuff, but if the song fits, by all means, sing it.

reeled, and forgiven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oamahR97xpA&feature=related

there is no diploma for guru, no credentials or verifiable job experiance blocks to study. Maybe the problem is with those who do have diplomas and credentials, they seem to be the ones who dont quite fit the bill. Maybe guru comes from unlikely places. Bhaktisiddhanta approached a madman living in a cemetery eating food from a human skull, and this person refused to accept him, so bhaktisiddhanta, after failing three times, decided to commit suicide. But Gaurakisora das babaji decided to let him in, to hook him up. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had no sanction nor authority to accept disciples from his parent foundation, the Gaudiya Math. He appeared to be an old imigrant stumbling thru the bowery bums in the NY snow in 1966. I dont go to the guru factory to select such a thing. Finding guru is an internal search, conducted by Guru Himself.