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Posts posted by bhaktatraveler


    Those instructions are Iskcon specific. If Iskcon can do it then more power to them. But such strict assigned social status is not for the society at large and no other matha can be expected to follow those instructions if their acarya prescribes otherwise.


    Poor boy, so negative, expert rejection. Now, if you could only harness and change that rejection/aversion into a 'can do' spirit and then post! What difference it would make. Devotees are reading. Take the instruction, then carry it out. Use all that hate and negative refuseal turned to Rhino hunting, instituting DVD. Poor boy, you need leadership.



    Say something negative, then back it up with verse/quote from Srila Prabhupada, that categorically refutes what has been pressented or please do not be so disturbing.


    Or say nothing at all.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    Gentlemen, I am shocked and astonished that you would allow some voice in your head to make you think you need to make a choice between participating in the Yuga Dharma and Daivi Varnashrama Dharma.



    Who but one as pure and advanced (or more) than Haridas Thakur himself can label the Varnasrama dharma institution that which chains one to the material world. When just as many quotes presented in these very discussions describe how VAD is what assists conditioned souls to get out of the material world.


    Of course for Haridas Thakur to engage in VAD would seem to be a regression, he is such a pure advanced servitor, what use would pretending at the execution of regulative principles do to increase his bliss.


    It seems Mahak claims this status for all of us.


    Just chant and be happy. Except for the 8 hours a day you are a slave to someone who sees you no different than a dollar bill, and will exploit your children too. No need for protection, just chant while you can still afford a roof over your head.


    Why I oughta....


    First HEAR THIS.


    SB 9.10.51

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    Purport Among the four yugas—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness movement, is meant for this purpose.

    <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

    Now, Try this one on for size.


    Sri Sri Haridas Thakur loves MahaPrabhu so much that he dives right back into the material world, determined to give the holy name to EVERYONE IN HIS OWN COSMIC EGG, STARTING WITH EARTH, BY HOOK OR BY CROOK.


    And he accepts BOTH the yuga dharma of congregationally chanting the Holy Names of Sri Radha Krsna AND acts just like one of us, plunging into Kali yuga 120 years ago, taking birth in the family of a pure devotee, taking some average vaisya position in society, considered just a nice Grhasta by his Godbrothers, yet recognized for who he is by a very exalted and intimate servant of Lord Chaitanya who requests he make certain to give the Holy Name to "the west" aka everyone outside of Holy Bharata.


    CC, Adi Lila, Chap. 3 TEXT 19



    yuga-dharma pravartaimu nama-sankirtana

    cari bhava-bhakti diya nacamu bhuvana


    TRANSLATION "I shall personally inaugurate the religion of the age-nama-sankirtana, the congregational chanting of the holy name. I shall make the world dance in ecstasy, realizing the four mellows of loving devotional service.


    The only Yajna for this age is the Congregational Chanting of the Holy Names. There is no other way. X3


    All Yajna is meant for Lord Visnu's satisfaction. He himself ordered the Kali Yuga Dharma of Nama Sankirtana Yajna for his own satisfaction.


    Bhagavad Gita 3.9


    Yajna means Lord Visnu, or sacrificial performances. All sacrificial performances also are meant for the satisfaction of Lord Visnu. The Vedas enjoin: yajno vai visnuh. In other words, the same purpose is served whether one performs prescribed yajnas or directly serves Lord Visnu. Krsna consciousness is therefore performance of yajna as it is prescribed in this verse. The varnasrama institution also aims at this for satisfying Lord Visnu. "Varnasramacara-vata purusena parah puman/visnur aradhyate..." (Visnu Purana 3.8.8)


    SB 9.10.51

    <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->



    Among the four yugas—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness movement, is meant for this purpose.


    A home run Beggar? Mahak was tagged before he got to first base.


    Get with it fellas, times a wasting. Its all one, and its all good.


    Hari Nama Sankirtana Yajna means CONGREGATION.


    Many many people coming together, congregating. Every day, for a whole lifetime. Daivi Varnasrama Dharma is the PART AND PARCEL of that Yajna dharma in that it is what we do the rest of the time to support everything from our chanting parties, to the care of our young, to the funding and managing and protection of a place for Brahmins to do their trade in peace and teach the children well, etc.


    They are as inseperable as the Holy Name from our dear Haridas Thakur's lips.


    All Glories to the Namacharya Haridas Thakur.


    All Glories to the Founder Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, His DIVINE grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who built a HOUSE the whole world could live in, and lay their head in when they got home exhausted but enlivened from a day of Chanting and dancing and feasting.


    A house called the Divine (Daivi) Varnasrama institution.


    For you. And me. Until we don't need it anymore. And still we may come and visit and make repairs from time to time, because we love each other.


    If I am hard on you guys it is because I love you, and those demons in your head don't stand a chance against that. And I need your true and abundantly available human maturity and wisdom to be applied to this situation in cooperation so we can do our Namacharya justice. Let us keep such lofty aspirations as becoming a ragatmika high above our heads, and see the only way to get there is to SEE WE STILL HAVE ONE FOOT IN THE GROUND ANYWAY, and convert that into Jacob's ladder by which our yet still deluded millions of our brothers and sisters all around us can hitch a ride back to Godhead with us on Srila Prabhupada's Sri Nama express.


    Hare Krsna




    Bhakta Mark. (screen name Bhakta Devarsi)



    What he said, am I Heckle or Jeckle? No matter. You all do remember those wacky magpies always won, right? Almost. No purfection yet.


    You prabhus always go for defeatism, endless excusses to fail, instead of the other way around. Your choice is to stay on all fours instead of walking up right.




    It will be yet another useless trivial squabble over words with a juggler. Reference "Puffed-Up" thread and save yourself the pain; soon you will be reading aparadha against AC Bhaktivedanta by one not fit to groom his dog, let alone divine on sastra.


    Who? Where? When? What? How? I must have missed it. Poster or source?


    Do I know you ghari? are you here in Alachua? I do know a Gaura Hari, is it you?


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das B-r


    How is it a trap? You guys are really funny. When others are wrong you gloat, when you two are wrong others are incorrigable. :rolleyes: Whatever.


    1. Incapable of being corrected or reformed: an incorrigible criminal.

    2. Firmly rooted; ineradicable: incorrigible faults.

    3. Difficult or impossible to control or manage: an incorrigible, spoiled child.


    I happily admit when I'm wrong, please tell me so whenever you think appropriate.



    Just because a devotee tells you, you are wrong, does not mean the devotee knows what he is talking about. Only a point, not personal.


    Yes, we should accept as correction what is given and give it good analyzation and introspection. Do the needfull, which might be to change. Or reject on grounds relivent to the individual or the vani of Prabhupada.




    LOL prabhu! Good way of putting it without using the necessary English words :)


    Unfortunate as we are, this insident happened in the early 90's I think and the sannyasi was Indian. Gopal Krsna said to my face that he should be forgiven and no sanctions imposed. Forgive and forget.


    I said the offender should marry and give up sannyasa and being 'guru', then ask for forgiveness.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    the four varnas constitute the material body. Legs, belly, arms, and head.


    But sudras take no orders from other sudras, that takes a little relationship building. In kali yuga, there are only sudras. There are sudras pretending to be brahmana, ksatriya, and vaisya, but all are sudras.


    Now in Prabhupadas ideal society, VAD was to be somewhat implemented, among vaisnavas, set up on his farms. But that went down the drain when farms were sold and cows were slaughtered in favor of embassies in major cities and plush high-rises. And there were still so-called order givers who were not even in Vad, less than sudras.


    VAD can be implemented in the EA schumaker style, small is beautiful. Maybe in a self standing community this will work, but in kali yuga, the main society is less than sudra. In fact, sudras are worshippable, when you come to think of it, because at least sudras are part of VAD, whereas the rest of society has so far to go to even be considered for such materialistic dharma.


    Forget VAD, go sanatana dharma. Be vaisnava, if there is a real brahmana out there, he will become your disciple and go back home, back to godhead.


    haribol, ys, mahaksadasa


    PS thanks for your kind words.




    Why would one sudra master craftsman not give orders/instructions to a yonger apprentice?


    OK, no higher varna, say you are interested in DVD, how do you propose to create higher varna?


    Proposal for DVD was for in our centers now. Not farms only, city centers is what we had then. Instruction is as relivent then as it is now. Nothing has been lost over time, no potency is lost to do DVD. Only will. Guru speaking in not useless at any time. As long as Prabhupada is being followed, His followers will try and eventually do it.


    In America sudras are worshipped.


    Wow! Srila Prabhupada says Vaisnava is not so easy, do DVD. Mahaksha says, no, no DVD, just be Vaisnava. Alrighty then!


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    Aren't we all in need of instruction? Even Srila Swami Maharaj called Srila Sridhar Maharaj his Siksha Guru, and Srila Sridhar Maharaj said he was in need of a guardian. So who should speak then Prabhu? You? Me? Who?


    Point well taken. Could you tell me who Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaja took siksha from on a daily bases, if any. Did He have a living Guru? If not why?Who Does Srila Govinda Maharaja take 'living siksha from? And who is there siksha and so on and so on..........is there ever a time where the devotee stands alone with Guru that has left. Does Srila Govinda Maharaja have communion with His Guru or does he always go through someone 'living'? Who is the middle man?


    All will shout from the roof tops and you have to figure it out, pure message is in there, most are saying that way of themselves. You will find as your desires lead you, as will I. We are all saying Supersoul, Guru is in my heart, listem to me. you will find the voice that is suitable for you. does not mean you will find full truth, you still can be cheated. And you will go freely.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    A decade ago, there was lots of Varna Asrama Dharma (VAD) discussion going on. It was quite ludicrous, and was just really a plea to allow some to carry sig sauers in their beadbags. Only the machos were doing the discussion, ksatriya-wannabes outnumbered three to one all the rest of them. They were quite disturbed when I told them that without my legs as a sudra, they were just another wheelchair gun freak.


    I started a company called sudra services, I am proud to be the legs of real VAD. I dont like VAD discussaion because folks wanna pick which varna they are attracted, they think prabhupada wanted to CREATE a VAD system. But Srila Prabhupada consistantly says that he doesnt crerate anything, and this goesw for VAD as well.


    You are or you are not administrative, you are or you are not mercantile, you are or you are not labor, you are or you are not intelligentia. You dont get to pick. The varnas are what you are, not what you want to be. The asramas indicate what stage of life you are in, student, married, retired or renounced. Natural, not contrived. So, before VAD discussion takes place, stipulation should be of the natural EXISTANCE of VAD, not some creation of ISKCON, Prabhupada, or anyone else.


    So what is the toll here, is it all who are wanting to be ksatriya? Vaisyas can shoot better (to protect their farms and bannks) and are far more wealthier. If I were to choose an army to align myself, Id go with sudras who could wipe out all the ksatriyas is very short order. Brahmana? Not in this age.


    VAD is material designation, Vaisnava trumps them all. A person born in a female form in a family of meateaters who now is a vaisnava under the guidance of a bonafide spiritual master is of immeasurable status above the greatest avadhuta renunciate spouting off the veda.


    Other than that, nice thread, nice topic.


    Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa


    Glade you chimmed in Mahaksa. Yes, if you do not agree then what? Kind of like two 5 yr olds fighting over a ball game. One says to the other if you do not see it my way I take my ball and go home. Game over, what power you have, free will. But you have a valid point about sudras importance, we should always remember the equality of DVD.


    Yes, varna is natural, you are sudra, admited. And I say ksatriya, Srila Prabhupada admited. Cooperation amoung devotees means one varna listens to the other. Sudra will do as three higher varnas say. You say no cooperasion from you(sudra). You are very free to say. I'm sad


    Third paragraph has been covered thread bear. So has the rest, Mahaksa you need to read the conversations in question. So much you have said is refuted there, by Srila Prabhupada.


    But just for the giggles.......I know you like books more.......


    SB. 8.2.30 purport


    In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with maya we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.



    SB. 5.1.24 purport


    Sometimes we are criticized because although I am a sannyasi, I have taken part in the marriage ceremonies of my disciples. It must be explained, however, that since we have started a Krishna conscious society and since a human society must also have ideal marriages, to correctly establish an ideal society we must take part in marrying some of its members, although we have taken to the path of renunciation. This may be astonishing to persons who are not very interested in establishing daiva-varnasrama, the transcendental system of four social orders and four spiritual orders. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, however, wanted to reestablish daiva-varnasrama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgement of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one’s qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krishna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krishna conscious society.




    I hope this meets you in good health. Nice to see you here sir.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    Silly people.


    You were silly too with the birds earlier? I loved Heckle and Jeckle as a kid. I was a TV brat from day one, addicted by day two. It's just transendental entertainment, Prabhu, like a TV program. The internet is silly. A place where every common person has equal voice? Silly! Isn't that back-a_s-word? Shouldn't only the more advanced speak and those in need of instruction listen? Silly place with silly people? Absolutly!


    As long as the DVD message is conveyed, those willing can hear encouragement. Just looking for a few good men/people, are a DVD kind of guy/person?


    If we do not like the chanel, then we change it. Every subject for Prabhupada's followers, that in any way comes in contact with the 5 gross eliments, must be regulated threw DVD cosmoligy. This is the message of Prabhupada for ISKCON. All subjects that touch/connect devotees to the material world, touch DVD preaching.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bahakti


    The issues you bring up here are very complex. Your DVD paradigm is only part of the picture. There are many more questions and many more answers.


    If you want to get simple, I have to eat. I will only eat Bhagavad prasadam. Where to get? Now I/we have to interact with all aspects of the material world. In all aspects of producing such. I would venture that 95% of the Western Vaisnava takes common milk or products, from the corrner store, what to speak of grain. I am not making a willing choice in this purchace, it is imposed by greater economic forces. But tamable with DVD.


    So what to do? Be in the non-devotee world suffering the humiliation of not living the BG, SB, as examples or be with devotees making a world. I made my choice in 74, still the same choice. I came to Srila Prabhupada at the right time to be trained in Bhakti yoga through varna and asrama. No one, mostly, is doing, up to and including now. Not even responsible talk from those whom claim superior intelect. Or if they would stick there perverbial necks out, it is chopped by aversion and unwillingness.


    Be willing, it COULD happen,:)


    Stay unwilling/averce it COULD NEVER happen.:crying2:


    The point now is to start preaching DVD heavely so a future can unfold.:deal:


    Our ability to eat, mate and defend as usual is frail at best. Ask Varaha in Mississippi, a farm neighbor to ISKCON farm there, how it was for Katrina. With government services cut, no access to the common staples. Difficult at best, for most in his area.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    Ok Adamantine Resilience.


    That is OK, my sword is made of Prabhupadinium.



    That is HDG's Iskcon organization. Or did you forget already as you are so busy trying to start your own?



    The odd thing is how you can completely ignore all the evidence that Srila Prabhupada ordered formal recognition of the four varnas within Iskcon, over and over again. Maybe not so odd, as this seems perfectly in character at this point.


    You still accuse of "trying" and equate that to Forcing, and then predict poor results. Just because you failed, your sour grapes are intoxicating your mind.



    He also clearly advocates the literal enactment of what he preaches, just because you (among others trust me) can abstract the figurative symbolism does not negate my first point, only enhances it if one is fortunate.



    The quotes you cherry picked according to make this comment did not support the comment whatsoever. Your blade is rusty.


    And finally shame on you for ending with this quote.



    Which is such an out and out false accusation. You give absolutely no direct evidence that anyone turns the meaning of any quotes on their head, just your own speculative interpretation. Srila Prabhupada is preaching to the broad and the specific, including exact instructions while emphasising the transcendental. You act as if he was only speaking to those who could ALREADY understand the finest theistic conception in his preaching, which is a further indication of lack of understanding around where us commoners are at.




    Hare Krsna



    What he said, Heckle supports Jeckle:cool:


    Hare Krsna, CB-r


    Hare Krsna


    Recently, a devotee on this forum told me that whenever a real Gaudiya Vaisnava uses the word "Bhakti" they are only speaking of Pure Bhakti or Shuddha Bhakti, or else they would use other words to qualify it, like Jnana-misra-bhakti, or Mixed Bhakti, etc. He used so many arguements to back up his conception, and it flat out made no sense to me intuitively or logically, and I said so.


    Now here we have HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami apparently caught in the act!! Is he a "real" Gaudiya Vaisnava?


    Purport: Adi 4:21-22


    In the Caitanya-caritamrta three kinds of devotional service are described-namely, bhakti (ordinary devotional service), suddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) and viddha-bhakti (mixed devotional service).<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

    When devotional service is executed with some material purpose, involving fruitive activities, mental speculations or mystic yoga, it is called mixed or adulterated devotional service. Besides bhakti-yoga, the Bhagavad-gita also describes karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. Yoga means linking with the Supreme Lord, which is possible only through devotion. Fruitive activities ending in devotional service, philosophical speculation ending in devotional service, and the practice of mysticism ending in devotional service are known respectively as karma-yoga, jnana-yoga and dhyana-yoga. But such devotional service is adulterated by the three kinds of material activities.

    For those grossly engaged in identifying the body as the self, pious activity, or karma-yoga, is recommended. For those who identify the mind with the self, philosophical speculation, or jnana-yoga, is recommended. But devotees standing on the spiritual platform have no need of such material conceptions of adulterated devotion. Adulterated devotional service does not directly aim for love of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore service performed strictly in conformity with the revealed scriptures is better than such viddha-bhakti because it is free from all kinds of material contamination. It is executed in Krsna consciousness, solely to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

    Those who are spontaneously devoted to the Lord and have no aims for material gain are called attracted devotees. They are spontaneously attracted to the service of the Lord, and they follow in the footsteps of self-realized souls. Their pure devotion (suddha-bhakti), manifested from pure love of Godhead, surpasses the regulative principles of the authoritative scriptures. Sometimes loving ecstasy transcends regulative principles; such ecstasy, however, is completely on the spiritual platform and cannot be imitated. The regulative principles help ordinary devotees rise to the stage of perfect love of Godhead. Pure love for Krsna is the perfection of pure devotion, and pure devotional service is identical with spontaneous devotional service.

    Flawless execution of regulative principles is exhibited in the Vaikuntha planets. By strictly executing these principles one can be elevated to the Vaikuntha planets. But spontaneous pure loving service is found in Krsnaloka alone.


    Pure DVD from the CC :) and they say not for us? It is every where in our books, action(DVD) in devotional service(bhakti) Your Mama :eek2:




    . If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [bg. 4.13]. Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. In this age everyone is a śūdra. So it doesn't matter, everyone is born śūdra, but he should be trained up. Just like in our practical life we see that everyone is not born a scientist or engineer or lawyer. Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya. And the government should see that everyone, as he is trained up, he is working according to his quality and occupational duty. Then there will be complete peace and harmony. That human society is perfect.


    But also:


    There is no question of a devotee becoming a sudra if he does certain work. No, a devotee is never a sudra. He is transcendental. Because their activity is done in transcendental loving service unto the Lord, it is all on the transcendental plane, brahma bhuyaya kalpate [bg. 14.26]. You should not quit your present job, it is good service to Krsna. Although you may be working hard, you are always working for Krsna; so do not be confused about your position and never forget Krsna in any circumstances.


    So basically from my perspective, Srila Swami Maharaj wanted to institute daiva varnashram dharma if possible, but it isn't clear to me that he wanted this withing ISKCON or as a greater goal for humanity at large. I don't know about anyone else but I hope to become a devotee, not a sudra, vaisha, ksatriya or brahmin.


    I'll continue to look into this myself, but thanks Prabhu for starting the discussion. It needs some in-depth study definitely. Forgive me if I don't come to the same conclusions, not that I have solidified any yet.



    Prabhu I have posted the evidence to the question of whether or not in ISKCON now. I have post explanation as to varna verses devotion, we are devotee. Are you skimming?




    I think it best to just consider that we are puffed up otherwise if we were feeling lower than the straw in the street wen would be chanting incessantly under Lord Caitanya's blessing.


    It is good to try to take the humble position in circumstances life brings our way but the best way to cultivate humilty is to humble ourselves before Krsna in our personal chanting. Then when we perceive Krsna in the heart of every other living being we will be humble in that situation also treating others accordingly.


    I was cruising this thread and I wanted to take the opportunity to commend you on this post and ask you to give more elucidations connected to the CC refeence above.


    In light of this post, my own 1st post shows the darkness of my false ego in connection to bodily attachment. I have as many weeds as creeper, choking me down. I have motivation, conditioning, but I would dovetail it all threw DVD to cleans my heart of these obviously unwanted things. Most of us are on this platform. 99%


    I read, saw, came, wept and cried, still today on this womens behalf on Chakra, I cry, but will never stop tring.


    Please post on the CC.


    Hare Krsna, CB-r


    Hare Krsna


    Is Caturbahu dasa B.R. in the house?


    I thought you might have access to that great conversation where Srila Prabhupada is telling his leading disciples through Hari-Sauri dasa something to the effect.


    "NO, not Sarva Dharman Parityajna, not that you surrender and come to him right away, there is process etc..."


    Saying this to identify their OBSTINATE REFUSAL to accept that there is a process within devotional service, and that they are already atma-nivedanam or fully surrendered.


    It would go nice with the Topic, ya got it??







    Yes, I looked it up yesterday. But it is such a tramendous conversation covering so much that I hesitate to post a snipit....So here is all of it. Another purport to the purport.



    Conv 1/3/77 Mumbai


    January 3, 1977, Bombay



    Prabhupada: Why should be checked? This is the point.


    Giriraja: I don’t think that the court will decide against us.


    Prabhupada: If they decide that... There are many other court judgments in our favor. Then we must adopt civil disobedience. There is no other, second way. “Capriciously you cannot impose anything against the law, against the judgment. If you do, then we shall also disobey.” That should be the last resolve.


    Hari-sauri: I remember when we were first beginning in Melbourne we were harassed very tremendously by the Council.


    Prabhupada: Yes, I know that.


    Hari-sauri: And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on sankirtana, every day distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn’t pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o’clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And... It went on for months. And then in the end there was so much publicity about it... When we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn’t get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our sankirtana activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there’s nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don’t think they can do that.


    Prabhupada: So your wife came... [break] This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.


    Gopala Krishna: No, I know many women who are very good cooks, I have tasted...


    Prabhupada: They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that “I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased.” That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuffs, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life. They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn’t matter, but must be responsible that “The children should be saved. This is the last birth, no more birth. I’ll train the child in such a way that next life he’s going to Krishna, back to home, back to Godhead.” That is parent’s duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: “I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs.” This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Thakura was grihastha, he produced Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. That is one... So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is grihastha. Produce Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. My Guru Maharaja used to say that “If I can produce krishna-bhakta as children, then I’m prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children.” And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devaki in their previous life. What was the name? Their determination is “If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, tapasya. And when Krishna came, “What do you want?” “I want You.” “Who is like Me? I shall appear. I shall appear.” Anyway, we have got such huge establishment. Utilize it very properly everywhere. Another thing, that in Vrindavana... You remember the corner land, parikrama, last time? That is available by acquirement.


    Gopala Krishna: The corner land to the left? Left of Gurukula? Or...


    Prabhupada: No Gurukula... When we go to the chuni,(?) in front of...


    Gopala Krishna: Ha, ha, ha. In that direction.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That is agricultural land.

    Gopala Krishna: Right opposite...


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Hari-sauri: Where that gate is.


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Gopala Krishna: Right before the gate. That is... I was under the impression that belonged to some Christian man.


    Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is first. After crossing the road, the corner.


    Hari-sauri: Where the parikrama path is.


    Gopala Krishna: That is available for...?


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Gopala Krishna: Actually that would be good if we get that. It’s right next to our temple.


    Prabhupada: So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.


    Gopala Krishna: Okay. I’m going to Vrindavana in ten days.


    Prabhupada: So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending lakh of rupees for municipality, why not acquire that land?


    Gopala Krishna: Acquire or buy? Acquire.


    Prabhupada: Acquire means you have to pay, but government...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, but acquire usually takes a long time.


    Prabhupada: Not long time. They’ll give us, because it is lying vacant.


    Gopala Krishna: On the sewage problem in Vrindavana, we’ll have to make, do something quickly because even the Gurukula will not be able to open till we can...


    Prabhupada: So you can do it immediately. But go on, purchase. It is lying vacant.


    Gopala Krishna: Okay, that’s a very good idea. But we’ll still have to put a pipe underground coming out.


    Prabhupada: That is not much, a few you, few yards only. And then introduce it and distribute that water, the whole land, and you will get good agricultural produce, very good. You can have very good business.


    Hari-sauri: That can be used for agriculture?


    Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This water is very valuable for agricultural purpose. Nature has made in such a way. Aiye. All rejected water, you can utilize for agriculture.


    Hari-sauri: I think in the West they have a law that says you can’t use human sewage.


    Prabhupada: Kick out the West. We are doing here, in India. The municipality is doing that also in Vrindavana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhapara matha. Dhapara matha, formerly, anything produced in dhapara matha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition that “These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty...” But the vegetables were—cauliflower so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big... Dhapara mathera (Bengali). They used to take. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice... That is utilization of this filthy water where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow’s, cow dung and man’s stool and everyone’s stool, they are wrapped gathered together in the rainy season. It became fertile. (Hindi)


    Gopala Krishna: We will try for the land.


    Prabhupada: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.


    Gopala Krishna: We are sticking to it. The only harm to us is our Gurukula is going to get delayed now, the opening.


    Prabhupada: But in the meantime you...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes. And also we are running out of time because we can’t let water accumulate the way it is.


    Prabhupada: So why you can’t? We have purchased that land. They have to...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, that is... We’ll try for that now.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That means... We have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court: “We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The municipality is not doing anything.” We have to fight like that.


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, we are fighting.


    Prabhupada: Why you should be afraid?


    Gopala Krishna: No. I mean the water... We’re having all the trouble with the man in the back.


    Prabhupada: That I am speaking, that he’s trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have to purchase the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land... The municipality is obliged. Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is municipal’s duty. Otherwise why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?


    Gopala Krishna: We’re not paying tax. We are fighting it in the court.

    Prabhupada: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to gunda-ism, we shall engage fifty gundas. “Come on. Let us see.” We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore’s one poetry: “One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong.” One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That’s all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kshatriya spirit. Yuddhe capy apalayanam. “If you are challenging, ‘All right, come on,’ I accept this challenge.” We have to do like that. Now, this baniya spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he’s afraid of him. What is this? Baniya spirit. But you are kshatriya.


    Gopala Krishna: He has to... I’m not there all the time. They come to his house to...


    Prabhupada: No, you argue with weapon. Beat them. We shall see. Go to the police that “This is nonsense.”


    Gopala Krishna: Yeah, we’ve done that.


    Prabhupada: So how is that?


    Gopala Krishna: At the present moment he’s okay; he’s quiet.


    Prabhupada: No, we should beat them. If somebody, atatayi...(?) You unnecessarily attack me; I must first kill you. That is my duty. Just like you have done here, Setterji. “I’ll bring my revolver.” So that is argumentum baculum. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: “All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver.” He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice. Take that spirit. And in meantime apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we’re not going to pay tax.


    Gopala Krishna: No, that’s our position.


    Prabhupada: Let us go on, one court after another, one court after... If there is fight, we must be prepared to fight. (Hindi) If required, take

    Setterji. He’ll help.


    Setterji: Giriraja.


    Giriraja: He’s very heroic. He was very heroic.


    Prabhupada: Yes. He is kshatriya. (Hindi) You take him.


    Gopala Krishna: Okay.


    Setterji: In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That is kshatriya spirit. If you want to fight...


    Setterji: Yes, always.


    Prabhupada: You killed?


    Setterji: Yes! So many times.


    Prabhupada: So you have got experience. Huh?


    Setterji: Sometimes I have walked on the dead body.


    Prabhupada: Accha. So many dead bodies.


    Setterji: I have seen about four men at the Pathan border, and the... One, this Korabhari, this tanga, Victoria,(?) came with six Muslims. And they challenged us. Very... “We will kill you.” We said, “Yes, come. You kill us; we will kill you. We fight.” We were ready at that time because revolver was there and the Kurari Kundasa was there. One, my friend, he was from Gujawala(?). He showed this Kundasa, and his head cut out, and he was running...


    Prabhupada: Accha. Still running?


    Setterji: Running! In Mahabharata(?) I was heard that body was running. But actually I have seen at that time. Head was cut and the body was running.


    Prabhupada: Just see. (laughter) And then he fell down.


    Setterji: Then he fell down. And of that, the other men went.


    Prabhupada: That, how he was running with his mind, just see.


    Gopala Krishna: With his mind.


    Hari-sauri: The mind is in the heart.


    Setterji: And we have saved all the fellows because...


    Prabhupada: That, these rascals, they do not know...


    Setterji: Because if they first, they put us, then our men will do it. So we do first.


    Prabhupada: Killing.


    Setterji: Yes. And the one man get out from the tanga, who first cut out his head. Then... And all the others ran out. (Hindi)


    Prabhupada: (Hindi) Yes. (Hindi) Actually. It was also very disastrous.


    Setterji: To fight... When fight is there, then...


    Prabhupada: That is also Krishna conscious. You see how many demons are killed by Krishna.


    Setterji: “Come on.” You challenge. You see? I’ve declared. If they challenge us I am ready, “Come on.” At the temple I challenged, “Come on! And you are 150. We don’t be afraid.”


    Prabhupada: So... (Hindi) You have lost your kshatriya spirit.


    Gopala Krishna: Having Setterji with us... When he has (?) relax for few days, rest for few days.


    Prabhupada: Huh? If you have lost your kshatriya spirit, then take him.


    Setterji: When he came with that barrister to give you to notice... (Hindi)


    Prabhupada: (Hindi)... Mantrer(?) was so against, that “We must stop this.” Yes. I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Seti, “Either Seti should go...” Like that, he has repeated me. He gave me hint that Seti... (Hindi) And you know that. The doctor, what is that doctor? He suggested. He’s Mantrer’s(?) man. Yes. Yes.


    Setterji: He was also play the game in the land, that...


    Prabhupada: He gave hint that “Give Mantrer two lakhs of rupees.” Yes. He was canvasser on behalf of Mantrer. He wanted two lakhs.


    Setterji: Which we’ll not give you a single paisa. We will fight to you. “Come on.”


    Prabhupada: So I think you make this point. But best thing is that if you can acquire that land, that is the best solution. We can utilize that land?


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, for agriculture. That’s very good.


    Prabhupada: It is just in the corner.


    Gopala Krishna: We can have a small gosala there also.


    Prabhupada: Anything we can do.


    Setterji: Guruji, one night at the Pakistan front we stay in one place, and forty, fifty men came there, Kuraris and Kundasas. And another fellow which was with me, he was asked to be one of them. So when they came we recognized and we were ready with the revolvers and... The men came and they want to kill us, and we shoot them, five men dead, that time, and the rest ran away. And I took my child, this Brijmohan. He was five days old only. And I took my wife on the back...


    Prabhupada: Five days?


    Setterji: Five days. And I took my wife on the back and child in my hand, and the way was so difficult, and the darkness. And then we... Six miles...


    Prabhupada: What about your other children and daughters?


    Setterji: They were also with us.


    Prabhupada: But they were grown up.


    Setterji: My father took my..., that child who was one year old.


    Prabhupada: Oh, father, mother, everyone, whole family. Then how trial they had.


    Setterji: Six miles from there, and then we got a...


    Gopala Krishna: A lot of these Punjabis had to go through this. During the Partition a lot of Punjabis had to face the fight and killing them off.


    Prabhupada: No, in Bengal also there was fight.


    Setterji: Huh? First Bengal? Was in Punjab.(?)


    Prabhupada: Noakali there was great fight.


    Setterji: After this war I cannot slept six months perfectly.


    Prabhupada: Mind was so disturbed.


    Setterji: Because these, that scenes, came always...


    Prabhupada: Oh, yes. In vision.


    Setterji: ...in dreams that “We were fighting; we were killing, they are killing; we are killing.”


    Prabhupada: Just see how much struggle.


    Setterji: Sometimes we wake up fighting, fighting.


    Prabhupada: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahatma Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that “You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now.” So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two gundas are fighting. I have seen. One gunda is stabbing the other gunda. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought “It must be like that. This is going on.” But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday, Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered. Putamat putamat putamat...” So I was child, a boy. I became... “What is this happening?” In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: “Oh, the child has not come.” They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, “Wherefrom the child will come?” So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his lathi and actually... But I passed through some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So that time I was rising: “Is it ended? The riot is ended?” I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.


    Gopala Krishna: We haven’t had any such experience.


    Setterji: I was passing on my car after Pakistan from Laul(?) and they put bomb, hand grenade, and the back glass broken, but we...


    Prabhupada: Saved. Krishna saved. Unless Krishna saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.


    Setterji: (Hindi)


    Prabhupada: At any moment.


    Setterji: “Who are afraid from death? Come on!” challenging... (Hindi)


    Prabhupada: (Hindi) Soldiers, they forget that “We have to die.” They fight for... That is another madness. In Hindi it is called kunchariya.(?)


    Setterji: Kunchariya. (Hindi) That is... Ah.


    Prabhupada: Soldiers they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. (Hindi) ...kshatriya spirit. They must be trained up kshatriyas. If he is baniya, he cannot do it.


    Setterji: (Hindi) ...who have challenged us. So “Come on.”


    Prabhupada: (laughs) So you are real husband. You gave protection to your wife.


    Indian lady: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation for few sentences)


    Prabhupada: Can you make one capati?


    Hari-sauri: I should make it, or Palika or...?



    Prabhupada: Yes, Palika. [break] ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture you can do it immediately. Krishi-go-rakshya. That... We are going to do that. Krishi... This is beginning, family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Krishi-go-rakshya-vanijyam [bg. 18.44]. First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural products. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. Krishi-go-rakshya. And the krishi you can produce independently. You simply work. You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground and throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you’ll get one hundred mounds. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you’ll eat nicely and you’ll be strong. You’ll be able to work more. Our point is take Krishna’s instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Krishna is advising immediately sarva-dharman parityajya [bg. 18.66]. For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you’ll do, that is perfect.


    Giriraja: You mean I should leave everything and start a farm?


    Prabhupada: Where is the question of leaving? Agriculture... You take to agriculture—that means you leave everything?


    Giriraja: Well, what I have now.


    Prabhupada: And what you have got? You are asking that “I require now food.” That means you have nothing. You have no food even. (aside:) Oh, you have brought it very quickly. Very nice. All right. [break] Live very comfortably, eat very comfortably and work. Chant Hare Krishna. Simply wasting time, the civilization... srama eva hi kevalam. Working hard and wasting valuable time of... Misguided. Andha yathandhair upaniya... When I think of their position... So every Vaishnava should be para-duhkha-duhkhi. So you like it?


    Hari-sauri: For thirty paisa it’s very good. For the price it’s very good.


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Gopala Krishna: Oh, it’s very good in other ways, full color. We’re going to sell it for a rupee, and...


    Prabhupada: Kripambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. The unhappy for the unhappiness of others. They love them, unhappy without Krishna consciousness. This is a fact. The rascal may agree or not agree. That’s a fact. Ghostly haunted.


    Gopala Krishna: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.


    Prabhupada: Jaya. [break] Where is this temple? London? No.


    Hari-sauri: Which one? Oh, that’s the German castle. Schloss Rettershof.


    Prabhupada: Oh, France.


    Hari-sauri: German.


    Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes. I think it is rightly done.


    Hari-sauri: For mass distribution it’s very good, for mass distribution. How many copies he’s...


    Prabhupada: One lakh. (end)


    Jaya Nitai!!!


    So well said.


    What a devotee. What a woman. She is as intelligent as Queen Kunti.


    My queen, Niscala Dasi, I am blessed by your words.


    Hare Krsna


    Hare Krsna, All


    Maybe now a women has shown interest in DVD on line, the topic could have 'interest' to weak minded men that do nothing on the physical plane to create Vaisnava culture expressed by DVD.


    And talk a talk on line. While the women and children wail in distress, in the real world of disfunctional Vaisnava society.




    If we are simply interested in promoting ouselves to Goloka, then it is not necessary. However, ISKCON is into preaching. This is the key. Because of the attempts to preach, we must do it.


    Yes. ISKCON is a preaching movement, so we most do DVD as an integral part of our efforts to save ourselves and as many other conditioned souls as possible. This is the preaching, back to Godhead. All activies in conjuntion with the preaching are also preaching. It's all good. It's all sankirtan. That is the Gaudiya mood, as I understand from my limited ability.


    My appeal is to Gaudiyas from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. Once we have done, other Vaisnava will follow I think. Then we hope to effect the non devotee community. All at the same time would be nicer.


    Niskincana is another matter. But still the under lying motivation of DVD, to make the way easyer.


    A major concern in all this is the regulative principles in conection with advancement. The simple is that Srila Prabhupada's example says it all......


    Conv. 2/14/77


    Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam... He’ll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a sudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a sudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a sudra perfectly.


    (CB-r: No mention of 4 regs.)



    Hari-sauri: For Krishna.


    Prabhupada: Therefore why a sudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a sudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of sudra, he’ll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.



    In concideration of this revelation of reorganization, the preaching must change to reflect the direction Srila Prabhupada's explanations take ISKCON.


    Sudra will follow differently from brahman. Still, he will get everything.......



    Conv 4/20/74


    (CB-r: this is abviously a continuation from previous days interest in DVD in ISKCON. On how now to understand implementation of this new addition to the paradigum.)



    Mahamsa: Just like that devotee who was making garlands for Krishna.


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Mahamsa: He is a devotee. He is not a sudra making garlands.


    Prabhupada: No. He is not a ordinary gardener.


    Pancadravida: Or that devotee who was making leaf bowls for worshiping the Ganges.


    Prabhupada: Any engagement, any engagement for Krishna, he is Vaishnava. If he is under the guidance of his spiritual master and doing the business according to the direction, he is Vaishnava. He is above all these.


    Pancadravida: A sudra, if he is working, he cannot take brahmana initiation, but he can take hari-nama, is that it?


    Prabhupada: Just like sometimes our men, my devotee, they wash the cupboard. Does it mean he is a methar(?)? No. He can go to the Deity room also. He is not a methar(?) or sweeper. But sometimes we do that. So devotee is above all these consideration. But because there is management, they should appear as brahmana, as sudra, as kshatriya, like that.


    sa gunan samatityaitan

    brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

    mam ca vyabhicarini

    bhakti-yogena yah sevate

    [bg. 14.26]


    A devotee, because he is working as a sudra, he is not a sudra; neither he is a brahmana. He is already in the spiritual platform. But for management we have to do that. One can do the sudra’s work nicely—let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?


    Mahamsa: Does he get second initiation?


    Prabhupada: Everything he will get.


    Mahamsa: He gets.


    Prabhupada: Yes. Second initiation means recognized: “Now he has become fully competent Vaishnava.” Just like master is teaching the servant, “Now you give massage in this way, this way.” But that does not mean he has become servant.


    Pancadravida: What if the person working as sudra says, “I can do so much. I can...,”


    Prabhupada: First of all, try to understand. A devotee is neither brahmana nor sudra. He may act like a sudra, but he is not sudra. He may act like a brahmana; he is not brahmana. He is Vaishnava. Just like gopis. The gopis, they are village cowherds women. They are, according to social construction, they are not very high class. They did not belong to the brahmana class. But their worship, method of worship, has been taken the highest. Ramya kacid upasana vrajavadhu-vargena. They were village girls, and practically their character was also not good. Because at dead of night they are going to Krishna. But why they have been taken as the most topmost devotee of Krishna? Because the love was so high class. It is the test, how much one has learned to love Krishna. That is wanted. Apparently he may appear as a brahmana, a sudra or vaisya. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. The only business is to see: sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adho... [sB 1.2.6]. Aiye. Hare Krishna. Jaya. That is wanted.



    So who will preach like Prabhupada?



    Hare Krsna, CB-r


    This is from Chakra. DVD, is the answer all have been whating for.



    Juicy Discussions On Day Ten


    by Niscala Dasi

    Posted February 27, 2007


    Hare Krsna Dasi's article "The Dhanurdhara Scandal- What Decisive Actions were Taken?" reflects the frustration of us all with the lack of communications from the GBC on topics that are vitally important, in this case how we deal with perpetrators of child abuse. Our movement will never have the integrity it needs to have and to hold on to people with higher virtues, when truth, transparency, human decency and compassion are constantly compromised within the leadership.

    That is why the question raised on Day 9 of the meetings is so imperative- whether the GBC authority is spiritual or managerial? This essential question of whether the GBC is following Srila Prabhupada's direction to introduce varnasrama, thus separating the managerial from the spiritual authority, is the pivot on whether other issues will *ever* be taken seriously. People of ambition get lazy when they reach their comfortable situation, in this case world travel, the best accomodation, and reverent submission from the masses. Whether essential topics get discussed at all, or sufficently, or with honesty, is of little concern to them. Certainly from the reports, it was not as important as what happened when the gurukulis visited and what they refreshed themselves with on day 10.

    In contrast, a varnasrama meeting would be subject to a person or group who has nothing to gain or lose in this heirarchy but whose sole interest is transparency and integrity to the philosophy, the directions of guru and sastra and the qualities our society espouses. That is the brahmana and since he is a teacher to all, not just the ksatriya, he would never keep essential details of a meeting a closed secret to the society. A brahmana is always keen to inform and enlighten everyone- what to speak of those with spiritual concerns, he would take them most seriously.

    So long as men of ambition determine the direction of meetings and their reporting back to the society, the essential will never be separated from the trivial, and if essential topics be discussed at all, will not be with from the standpoint of integrity, but rather to appear as though they are doing something, just by raising the topic. Thus, people with essential concerns such as Hare Krsna Dasi will continue to be ignored and kept in the dark or fed such patronizing insults as "we dealt with it decisively!" This lack of information even on topics of our most heartfelt concern, smacks of impersonalism and hard-heartedness. It also sends an unambiguous message that what they want from us is *blind* submission, a perfect situation from a managerial point of view, but absolutely disastrous from the brahmana's standpoint. The former wants to avoid problems and have things running smoothly, even if principles are compromised, and the latter wants principles uncompromised, even if it causes all manner of problems and headaches. Thus brahmana and the ksatriya class can never merge, as they have opposing paradigms and qualifications by definition in the gita. They are however both essential, as are the head and the arms of the body, but when all the brain you have is in your arms, you in pretty bad shape. Even with the best juice bar outside your meeting room. Even mango.


    hare krishna! i am confused because of a question that my friend asked to me. i am strong in my beliefs but my friends is not. my friend asked me why god would create the 'evil' demons that are always in stories. (eg. hiranykasip had to be killed by narsihma dev) i am not that bothered by this question and my faith in god is still strong but i was just wonderning. i would appreciate any help! hare ram



    Hiranyakasipu is not a normal demon, he is either Jaya or Vijaya. Door keeper to the Vaikunta atmosphere. Which is which, I do not remember.


    The jist of the pastime is that Krsna has a fighting/playful continence and likes to fight. Sense it is intimate pastime and Krsna only has these pastimes with devotees, then an incident was manifest that included other devotee by the name of the four Kumaras to interact with Jaya-Vijaya.


    The Kumaras were eternally liberated 5 yrs old brahmacaryi and tried to enter Vaikunta. Jaya and Vajaya stopped them, superficially faining age and presummed spiritual disqualification. Do to the fact the Kumaras were indead qualified and the door keepers should have seen the quality, the 4 Kumaras cursed Jaya and Vijaya to take birth in the material world. 7 times under normal conditions or 3 times as advisarial to Krsna, to be killed by Krsna in fighting rasa. They chose three births as advisary to Krsna.


    This pastime is not the same as karma, in which conditioned jivas are demons.


    Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das

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