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Posts posted by bhaktatraveler


    Can anyone recommend any good transcendentally- focused movies? I know some will be totally opposed to the idea, but hey, I'm definitely not a surrendered soul and my wife wants to sit with me and watch a movie regularly. She isn't very inclined to spiritual life so I'd like some recommendations on movies that may be good just from a God-consciousness platform, to help open her heart up a bit. I doubt I'll get her to sit through a Hindi movie unless there is Bollywood-type dancing etc :eek: so please keepo that in mind.


    Anyway, I know it is nonsense but you have to start somewhere. I had blooped out for a long time, gotten married to a woman that wasn't on that trip, and can't really impose Krishna Consciousness forcefully on her. She is a good person and just needs some gentle encouragement.


    Lagaan :) pure Bollywood.




    It is said that one must be empowered to preach nama sankirtan. Does one have to be empowered to preach DVD?




    Would you know if you SAW? Did Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers SEE Him as 'empowered' any time before Prabhupada left His body? I think not! What makes you think very many have EYES to see with? All big Gaudiya sannyasi's, but none could see Prabhupada. And now in 2007, who has sight?


    Its not about personality, the IDEA and following has the power. It is in the doing, action, MOVEMENT. If your preaching is in line with parampara then empowerment is activated. Just like deviation deactivates power transmision from parampara.


    You may have fault, but the message, if delivered in honesty and humility, as an intrument and not THE doer, then it will have effect. It is the frame of heart and mind, personal motivation. Or not, is best and most effective.





    Ah, ok. Then I'll wait on your CC quote then :pray:



    This comes to immediate mind.







    CC. Madhya 19.151






    “According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krishna. By the mercy of both Krishna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.



    When we speak of brahmanda, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all the universes there are innumerable planets, and there are innumerable living entities upon those planets—in the air, on land and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by maya in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity, life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, one who is actually fortunate (bhagyavan) comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Krishna’s mercy.

    Krishna is situated in everyone’s heart, and if one desires something, Krishna fulfills one’s desire. If the living entity by chance or fortune comes in contact with the Krishna consciousness movement and wishes to associate with that movement, Krishna, who is situated in everyone’s heart, gives him the chance to meet a bona fide spiritual master. This is called guru-krishna-prasada. Krishna is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord’s mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. Such a fortunate person is fortified by both Krishna and the spiritual master. He is helped from within by Krishna and from without by the spiritual master. Both are prepared to help the sincere living being become free from material bondage.

    How one can become this fortunate can be seen in the life of Srila Narada Muni. In his previous life he was born of a maidservant. Although he was not born into a prestigious position, his mother was fortunately engaged in rendering service to some Vaishnavas. When these Vaishnavas were resting during the Caturmasya period, the boy Narada took the opportunity to engage in their service. Taking compassion upon the boy, the Vaishnavas offered him the remnants of their food. By serving these Vaishnavas and obeying their orders, the boy became the object of their sympathy, and by the Vaishnavas’ unknown mercy, he gradually became a pure devotee. In the next life he was Narada Muni, the most exalted of Vaishnavas and the most important guru and acarya of Vaishnavas.

    Following in the footsteps of Narada Muni, this Krishna consciousness movement is rendering service to humanity by giving everyone a chance to come in contact with Krishna. If one is fortunate, he becomes intimately related with this movement. Then, by the grace of Krishna, one’s life becomes successful. Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti—love for Krishna—and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107):

    nitya-siddha-krishna-prema ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya

    sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya

    Dormant devotional service to Krishna is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, dormant love for Krishna is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-krishna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija.


    Madhya 19.152

    TEXT 152



    ÷±hN ýÃÃÛž± LÁNõþ Îuý×Ãà õNæà ձNõþ±óí h

    |õí-LÁNîSÂd-æÃNh LÁõþNlþ ÎuaÂd N 152 N

    mali hana kare sei bija aropana

    sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana



    mali hana—becoming a gardener; kare—does; sei—that; bija—seed of devotional service; aropana—sowing; sravana—of hearing; kirtana—of chanting; jale—with the water; karaye—does; secana—sprinkling.



    “When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of sravana and kirtana [hearing and chanting], the seed will begin to sprout.



    To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the sravana-kirtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of such sravana-kirtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridasa Thakura, who engaged in the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridasa Thakura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in sravana-kirtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees.

    The word guru-prasada indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life’s supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-kripa. It is krishna-prasada, Krishna’s mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Krishna, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord.

    Bhakti-lata-bija means “the seed of devotional service.” Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called the bija, or seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-lata-bija, or seed of devotional service. This bhakti-lata-bija is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Krishna. Other seeds, called anyabhilasha-bija, include karma-bija and jnana-bija. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-lata-bija from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates such seeds as karma-bija, jnana-bija, or political, social or philanthropic bijas. However, the bhakti-lata-bija is different from these other bijas. The bhakti-lata-bija can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get the bhakti-lata-bija (yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **). The bhakti-lata-bija is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bija, or root cause, of karma, jnana and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. But one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-lata-bija. This bhakti-lata-bija is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master’s mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called sravana-kirtana—hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kirtana). This is explained in the Bhagavad-gita (2.41): vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit for chanting or for preaching the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-lata-bija after receiving instructions from the spiritual master.


    Madhya 19.153

    TEXT 153



    nÂ×ó¿æÃlþ± õ±NnÂl hî± ‘õriipÁ±G’ Ît¿ðÃ’ l±lþ h

    ‘¿õõþæñ’, ‘õriipÁNh±LÁ’ Ît¿ðÃ’ ‘óõþNõI±÷’ ó±lþ N 153 N

    upajiya bade lata ‘brahmanda’ bhedi’ yaya

    ‘viraja’, ‘brahma-loka’ bhedi’ ‘para-vyoma’ paya



    upajiya—being cultivated; bade—grows; lata—the creeper of devotional service; brahmanda—the whole universe; bhedi’—penetrating; yaya—goes; viraja—the river between the spiritual world and the material world; brahma-loka—the Brahman effulgence; bhedi’—penetrating; para-vyoma—the spiritual sky; paya—attains.



    “As one waters the bhakti-lata-bija, the seed sprouts, and the creeper gradually grows to the point where it penetrates the walls of this universe and goes beyond the Viraja River, lying between the spiritual world and the material world. It attains brahma-loka, the Brahman effulgence, and penetrating through that stratum, it reaches the spiritual sky and the spiritual planet Goloka Vrindavana.


    A creeper generally takes shelter of a big tree, but the bhakti-lata, being the creeper of spiritual energy, cannot take shelter of any material planet, for there is no tree on any material planet that the bhakti creeper can utilize for shelter. In other words, devotional service cannot be utilized for any material purpose. Devotional service is meant only for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes men with a poor fund of knowledge maintain that bhakti can be applied to material things also. In other words, they say that devotional service can be rendered to one’s country or to the demigods, but this is not a fact. Devotional service is especially meant for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is beyond this material range. There is a river, or causal ocean, between the spiritual and material natures, and this river is free from the influence of the three modes of material nature; therefore it is called Viraja. The prefix vi means vigata (“completely eradicated”), and rajas means “the influence of the material world.” On this platform, a living entity is completely free from material entanglement. For the jnanis who want to merge into the Brahman effulgence, there is Brahma-loka. The bhakti-lata, however, has no shelter in the material world, nor has it shelter in Brahma-loka, although Brahma-loka is beyond the material world. The bhakti-lata grows until it reaches the spiritual sky, where Goloka Vrindavana is situated.


    Madhya 19.154

    TEXT 154



    îÂNõ l±lþ îÂðRió¿õþ ‘Îá±Nh±LÁ-õÔµ±õd’ h

    ‘LÔÁøžaÂõþí’-LÁŠõÔNŽÂ LÁNõþ Õ±Nõþ±ýÃí N 154 N

    tabe yaya tad-upari ‘goloka-vrindavana’

    ‘krishna-carana’-kalpa-vrikshe kare arohana



    tabe—thereafter; yaya—goes; tat-upari—to the top of that (the spiritual sky); goloka-vrindavana—to the planet known as Goloka Vrindavana where Krishna lives; krishna-carana—of the lotus feet of Lord Krishna; kalpa-vrikshe—on the desire tree; kare arohana—climbs.



    “Being situated in one’s heart and being watered by sravana-kirtana, the bhakti creeper grows more and more. In this way it attains the shelter of the desire tree of the lotus feet of Krishna, who is eternally situated in the planet known as Goloka Vrindavana, in the topmost region of the spiritual sky.



    In the Brahma-samhita (5.37) it is said:


    tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih

    goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto

    govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami

    “I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord. He resides in His own realm, Goloka, with Radha, who resembles His own spiritual figure and who embodies the ecstatic potency [hladini]. Their companions are Her confidantes, who embody extensions of Her bodily form and who are imbued and permeated with ever-blissful spiritual rasa.” In the spiritual world, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, has expanded Himself by His spiritual potency. He has His eternal form of bliss and knowledge (sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]). Everything in the Goloka Vrindavana planet is a spiritual expansion of sac-cid-ananda. Everyone there is of the same potency—ananda-cinmaya-rasa. The relationship between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His servitor is cinmaya-rasa. Krishna and His entourage and paraphernalia are of the same cinmaya potency. In this way the Supreme Personality of Godhead is expanded throughout the spiritual world, and when that cinmaya-rasa potency expands through the material potency, it becomes all-pervading. The idea is that although the Supreme Personality of Godhead exists on His own planet, Goloka Vrindavana, He is also present everywhere. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. He is present within all the universes, although they are innumerable, and He is also present within the atom. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrid-dese ’rjuna tishthati: [bg. 18.61] He is also present within the heart of all living entities. This is His all-pervasive potency.

    Goloka Vrindavana is the highest planet in the spiritual world. In order to go to the spiritual world after penetrating the covering of the material universe, one must penetrate Brahma-loka, the spiritual effulgence. Then one can come to the Goloka Vrindavana planet. There are also other planets in the spiritual world, called Vaikuntha planets, and on these planets Lord Narayana is worshiped with awe and veneration. On these planets santa-rasa is prevalent, and some of the devotees are also connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in dasya-rasa, the mellow of servitorship. As far as the mellow of fraternity is concerned, in Vaikuntha this rasa is represented by gaurava-sakhya, friendship in awe and veneration. The other fraternity rasa, exhibited as visrambha (friendship in equality), is found in the Goloka Vrindavana planet. Above that is service to the Lord in vatsalya-rasa (parental love), and above all is the relationship with the Lord in the madhurya-rasa (conjugal love). These five rasas are fully exhibited in the spiritual world in one’s relationship with the Lord. Therefore in the spiritual world the bhakti creeper finds its resting place at the lotus feet of Krishna.


    Madhya 19.155

    TEXT 155



    î±ýDÃñ ¿õ™¦±¿õþî ýÃÃÛž± ôÂNh Λ¶÷-ôÂh h

    ý×ÃÃýDÃñ ÷±hN ÎuNa ¿dîÂI |õí±¿ðà æÃh N 155 N

    tahan vistarita hana phale prema-phala

    ihan mali sece nitya sravanadi jala



    tahan—there in the spiritual world (in the Goloka Vrindavana planet); vistarita—expanded; hana—becoming; phale—produces; prema-phala—the fruit known as love of Godhead; ihan—in the material world, where the devotee is still present; mali—exactly like a gardener; sece—sprinkles; nitya—regularly, without fail; sravana-adi jala—the water of sravana, kirtana and so on.



    “The creeper greatly expands in the Goloka Vrindavana planet, and there it produces the fruit of love for Krishna. Although remaining in the material world, the gardener regularly sprinkles the creeper with the water of hearing and chanting.


    In Goloka Vrindavana the devotees have very intimate relationships with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The devotee engages in the Lord’s service in great ecstatic love. Such love was exhibited personally by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His teachings to the people of the material world. The fruit of the devotional creeper is the pure desire to serve and please the senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krishnendriya-priti-iccha dhare ‘prema’ nama. (Cc. Adi. 4.165) In the spiritual world one has no desire other than to please the senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The conditioned soul within the material world can neither understand nor appreciate how a pure devotee in the material world can render confidential service to the Lord out of feelings of ecstatic love and always engage in pleasing the Supreme Lord’s senses. Although seen within this material world, the pure devotee always engages in the confidential service of the Lord. An ordinary neophyte devotee cannot realize this; therefore it is said, vaishnavera kriya-mudra vijneha na bujhaya. The activities of a pure Vaishnava cannot be understood even by a learned scholar in the material world.

    Every living entity is wandering within this universe in different species and on different planetary systems according to his fruitive activities. Out of many millions of living entities, one may be fortunate enough to receive the seed of the bhakti-lata, the creeper of devotional service. By the grace of the spiritual master and Krishna, one nourishes the bhakti-lata by regularly sprinkling it with the water of sravana-kirtana, hearing and chanting. In this way the seed of the bhakti-lata sprouts and grows up and up through the whole universe until it penetrates the covering of the material universe and reaches the spiritual world. The bhakti-lata continues to grow until it reaches the topmost planetary system, Goloka Vrindavana, where Krishna lives. There the creeper takes shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord, and that is its final destination. At that time the creeper begins to grow the fruits of ecstatic love of God. It is the duty of the devotee who nourishes the creeper to be very careful. It is said that the watering of the creeper must continue: ihan mali sece nitya sravanadi jala. It is not that at a certain stage one can stop chanting and hearing and become a mature devotee. If one stops, one certainly falls down from devotional service. Although one may be very much exalted in devotional service, he should not give up the watering process of sravana-kirtana. If one gives up that process, it is due to an offense. This is described in the following verse.


    Madhya 19.156

    TEXT 156



    l¿ðà Æõøžõ-Õóõþ±sh nÂ×Nê ýÃñîÂN ÷±î± h

    nÂ×ó±NnÂl õ± ¿riNG, î±õþ q¿m’ l±lþ ó±î± N 156 N

    yadi vaishnava-aparadha uthe hati mata

    upade va chinde, tara sukhi’ yaya pata



    yadi—if; vaishnava-aparadha—an offense at the feet of a Vaishnava; uthe—arises; hati—an elephant; mata—mad; upade—uproots; va—or; chinde—breaks; tara—of the creeper; sukhi’—shriveling up; yaya—goes; pata—the leaf.



    “If the devotee commits an offense at the feet of a Vaishnava while cultivating the creeper of devotional service in the material world, his offense is compared to a mad elephant that uproots the creeper and breaks it. In this way the leaves of the creeper are dried up.



    One’s devotional attitude increases in the association of a Vaishnava:

    tandera carana sevi bhakta-sane vasa

    janame janame haya, ei abhilasha

    By his personal example, Narottama dasa Thakura stresses that a devotee must always remember to please his predecessor acarya. The Gosvamis are represented by one’s spiritual master. One cannot be an acarya (spiritual master) without following strictly in the disciplic succession of the acaryas. One who is actually serious about advancing in devotional service should desire only to satisfy the previous acaryas. Ei chaya gosani yara, mui tara dasa. One should always think of oneself as a servant of the servant of the acaryas, and thinking this, one should live in the society of Vaishnavas. However, if one thinks that he has become very mature and can live separate from the association of Vaishnavas and thus gives up all the regulative principles due to offending a Vaishnava, one’s position becomes very dangerous. Offenses against the holy name are explained in Adi-lila, Chapter Eight, verse 24. Giving up the regulative principles and living according to one’s whims is compared to a mad elephant, which by force uproots the bhakti-lata and breaks it to pieces. In this way the bhakti-lata shrivels up. Such an offense is especially created when one disobeys the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called guru-avajna. The devotee must therefore be very careful not to commit offenses against the spiritual master by disobeying his instructions. As soon as one is deviated from the instructions of the spiritual master, the uprooting of the bhakti-lata begins, and gradually all the leaves dry up.


    Madhya 19.157

    TEXT 157



    î±Nî ÷±hN lP LÁ¿õþ’ LÁNõþ Õ±õõþí h

    Õóõþ±sh-ýÙ¦Nõþ ÆlNrià d± ýÃÃlþ nÂ×ðAÃá÷ N 157 N

    tate mali yatna kari’ kare avarana

    aparadha-hastira yaiche na haya udgama


    tate—therefore; mali—the gardener devotee; yatna kari’—with great attention; kare—makes; avarana—protective fencing; aparadha—of offenses; hastira—of the elephant; yaiche—so that; na—not; haya—there is; udgama—birth.



    “The gardener must defend the creeper by fencing it all around so that the powerful elephant of offenses may not enter.



    While the bhakti creeper is growing, the devotee must protect it by fencing it all around. The neophyte devotee must be protected by being surrounded by pure devotees. In this way he will not give the maddened elephant a chance to uproot his bhakti creeper. When one associates with nondevotees, the maddened elephant is set loose. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said, asat-sanga-tyaga,—ei vaishnava-acara. The first business of a Vaishnava is to give up the company of nondevotees. A so-called mature devotee, however, commits a great offense by giving up the company of pure devotees. The human being is a social animal, and if one gives up the society of pure devotees, he must associate with nondevotees (asat-sanga). By contacting nondevotees and engaging in nondevotional activities, a so-called mature devotee will fall victim to the mad elephant offense. Whatever growth has taken place is quickly uprooted by such an offense. One should therefore be very careful to defend the creeper by fencing it in—that is, by following the regulative principles and associating with pure devotees.

    Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krishna Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society’s members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master’s instructions concerning the regulative principles and chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. By one’s mental concoctions, one falls down. By associating with nondevotees, one breaks the regulative principles and is thereby lost. In the Upadesamrita (2) of Srila Rupa Gosvami, it is said:


    atyaharah prayasas ca prajalpo niyamagrahah

    jana-sangas ca laulyam ca shadbhir bhaktir vinasyati


    “One’s devotional service is spoiled when he becomes too entangled in the following six activities: (1) eating more than necessary or collecting more funds than required, (2) overendeavoring for mundane things that are very difficult to attain, (3) talking unnecessarily about mundane subject matters, (4) practicing the scriptural rules and regulations only for the sake of following them and not for the sake of spiritual advancement, or rejecting the rules and regulations of the scriptures and working independently or whimsically, (5) associating with worldly-minded persons who are not interested in Krishna consciousness, and (6) being greedy for mundane achievements.”


    Madhya 19.158

    TEXT 158



    ¿LÁc l¿ðà hî±õþ ÕN/ nÂ×Nê ‘nÂ×óú±m±’ h

    tRi¿M-÷Ri¿MÃ-õ±>±, lî ÕuShmI î±õþ Îhm± N 158 N

    kintu yadi latara sange uthe ‘upasakha’

    bhukti-mukti-vancha, yata asankhya tara lekha



    kintu—but; yadi—if; latara—the creeper of devotional service; sange—with; uthe—arise; upasakha—unwanted creepers; bhukti—for material enjoyment; mukti—for liberation from the material world; vancha—the desires; yata—as many as there are; asankhya—unlimited; tara—of those unwanted creepers; lekha—the writing.



    “Sometimes unwanted creepers, such as the creepers of desires for material enjoyment and liberation from the material world, grow along with the creeper of devotional service. The varieties of such unwanted creepers are unlimited.


    Madhya 19.159

    TEXT 159



    ‘¿d¿ø¸X±a±õþ’, ‘LRiÁiÂNd±iÂN’, ‘æÃNõ¿ýÃÃShud’ h

    ‘h±tÂ’, ‘óÓæñ’, ‘›¶¿î‡±¿ðÃ’ lî nÂ×óú±m±áí N 159 N

    ‘nishiddhacara’, ‘kutinati’, ‘jiva-himsana’

    ‘labha’, ‘puja’, ‘pratishthadi’ yata upasakha-gana



    nishiddha-acara—behavior not to be exhibited by a person desiring to become perfect; kutinati—diplomacy; jiva-himsana—unnecessarily killing animals or the soul; labha—profit according to material calculations; puja—adoration achieved by satisfying mundane people; pratishtha-adi—becoming an important man in material calculations, and so on; yata—all these; upasakha-gana—unnecessary creepers.



    “Some unnecessary creepers growing with the bhakti creeper are the creepers of behavior unacceptable for those trying to attain perfection, diplomatic behavior, animal-killing, mundane profiteering, mundane adoration and mundane importance. All these are unwanted creepers.


    There is a certain pattern of behavior prescribed for those actually trying to become perfect. In our Krishna consciousness movement we advise our students not to eat meat, not to gamble, not to engage in illicit sex and not to indulge in intoxication. People who indulge in these activities can never become perfect; therefore these regulative principles are for those interested in becoming perfect and going back to Godhead. Kutinati, or diplomatic behavior, cannot satisfy the atma, the soul. It cannot even satisfy the body or the mind. The culprit mind is always suspicious; therefore our dealings should always be straightforward and approved by Vedic authorities. If we treat people diplomatically or duplicitously, our spiritual advancement is obstructed. Jiva-himsana refers to the killing of animals or to envy of other living entities. The killing of poor animals is undoubtedly due to envy of those animals. The human form is meant for the understanding of Krishna consciousness (athato brahma jijnasa), for inquiring about the Supreme Brahman. In the human form, everyone has a chance to understand the Supreme Brahman. The so-called leaders of human society do not know the real aim of human life and are therefore busy with economic development. This is misleading. Every state and every society is busy trying to improve the quality of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This human form of life is meant for more than these four animal principles. Eating, sleeping, mating and defending are problems found in the animal kingdom, and the animals have solved these problems without difficulty. Why should human society be so busy trying to solve these problems? The difficulty is that people are not educated to understand this simple philosophy. They think that advancement of civilization means increasing sense gratification.

    There are many religious propagandists who do not know how the ultimate problems of life can be solved, and they also try to educate people in a form of sense gratification. This is also jiva-himsana. Real knowledge is not given, and religionists mislead the general populace. As far as material profits are concerned, one should know that whatever material profit one has must be abandoned at the time of death. Unfortunately people do not know that there is life after death; therefore mundane people waste their time amassing material profit which has to be left behind at the time of death. Such profit has no eternal benefit. Similarly, adoration by mundane people is valueless because after death one has to accept another body. Material adoration and titles are decorations that cannot be carried over to the next body. In the next life, everything is forgotten.

    All these obstructions have been described in this verse as unwanted creepers. They simply present obstacles for the real creeper, the bhakti-lata. One should be very careful to avoid all these unwanted things. Sometimes these unwanted creepers look exactly like the bhakti creeper. They appear to be of the same size and the same species when they are packed together with the bhakti creeper, but in spite of this, the creepers are called upasakha. A pure devotee can distinguish between the bhakti creeper and a mundane creeper, and he is very alert to distinguish them and keep them separate.


    Madhya 19.160

    TEXT 160



    ÎuLÁæÃh ó±Ûž± nÂ×óú±m± õ±¿nÂl’ l±lþ h

    ™¦t ýÃÃÛž± ÷Óhú±m± õ±¿nÂlNî d± ó±lþ N 160 N

    seka-jala pana upasakha badi’ yaya

    stabdha hana mula-sakha badite na paya



    seka-jala—sprinkling water; pana—getting; upasakha—the unwanted creepers; badi’ yaya—grow luxuriantly; stabdha hana—becoming stopped; mula-sakha—the chief creeper; badite—to increase; na paya—is not able.



    “If one does not distinguish between the bhakti creeper and the other creepers, the sprinkling of water is misused because the other creepers are nourished while the bhakti creeper is curtailed.



    If one chants the Hare Krishna mantra while committing offenses, these unwanted creepers will grow. One should not take advantage of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra for some material profit. As mentioned in verse 159:


    ‘nishiddhacara’, ‘kutinati’, ‘jiva-himsana’

    ‘labha’, ‘puja’, ‘pratishthadi’ yata upasakha-gana


    The unwanted creepers have been described by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. He states that if one hears and chants without trying to give up offenses, one becomes materially attached to sense gratification. One may also desire freedom from material bondage like the Mayavadis, or one may become attached to the yoga-siddhis and desire wonderful yogic powers. If one is attached to wonderful material activities, one is called siddhi-lobhi, greedy for material perfection. One may also be victimized by diplomatic or crooked behavior, or one may associate with women for illicit sex. One may make a show of devotional service like the prakrita-sahajiyas, or one may try to support his philosophy by joining some caste or identifying himself with a certain dynasty, claiming a monopoly on spiritual advancement. Thus with the support of family tradition, one may become a pseudo guru, or so-called spiritual master. One may become attached to the four sinful activities—illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating—or one may consider a Vaishnava to belong to a mundane caste or creed. One may think, “This is a Hindu Vaishnava, and this is a European Vaishnava. European Vaishnavas are not allowed to enter the temples.” In other words, one may consider Vaishnavas in terms of birth, thinking one a brahmana Vaishnava, another a sudra Vaishnava, another a mleccha Vaishnava and so on. One may also try to carry out a professional business by means of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra or reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, or one may try to increase his monetary strength by illegal means. Also, one may become a cheap Vaishnava by trying to chant in a secluded place for material adoration, or one may desire mundane reputation by making compromises with nondevotees concerning one’s philosophy or spiritual life, or one may become a supporter of a hereditary caste system. All these are pitfalls of personal sense gratification. Just to cheat some innocent people, one makes a show of advanced spiritual life and becomes known as a sadhu, mahatma or religious person. All this means that the so-called devotee has become victimized by all these unwanted creepers and that the real creeper, the bhakti-lata, has been stunted.


    Madhya 19.161

    TEXT 161


    ›¶nN÷ý×Ãà nÂ×óú±m±õþ LÁõþNlþ ÎriÃðÃd h

    îÂNõ ÷Óhú±m± õ±¿nÂl’ l±lþ õÔµ±õd N 161 N

    prathamei upasakhara karaye chedana

    tabe mula-sakha badi’ yaya vrindavana



    prathamei—from the very beginning; upasakhara—of the unwanted creepers; karaye—does; chedana—the cutting away; tabe—then only; mula-sakha—the chief creeper; badi’—growing; yaya—goes; vrindavana—to the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krishna in Vrindavana.



    “As soon as an intelligent devotee sees an unwanted creeper growing beside the original creeper, he must cut it down instantly. Then the real creeper, the bhakti-lata, grows nicely, returns home, back to Godhead, and seeks shelter under the lotus feet of Krishna.


    If one is misled by unwanted creepers and is victimized, he cannot make progress back to Godhead. Rather, he remains within the material world and engages in activities having nothing to do with pure devotional service. Such a person may be elevated to the higher planetary systems, but because he remains within the material world, he is subjected to the threefold material miseries.


    Madhya 19.162


    TEXT 162



    ‘Λ¶÷ôÂh’ ó±¿LÁ’ óNnÂl, ÷±hN Õ±¦¤±ðÃlþ h

    hî± Õõh¿¥¤’ ÷±hN ‘LÁŠõÔŽÂ’ ó±lþ N 162 N

    ‘prema-phala’ paki’ pade, mali asvadaya

    lata avalambi’ mali ‘kalpa-vriksha’ paya



    prema-phala—the fruit of love of God; paki’—becoming mature; pade—falls down; mali—the gardener; asvadaya—tastes; lata avalambi’—taking advantage of the growing bhakti-lata; mali—the gardener; kalpa-vriksha paya—reaches the desire tree in Goloka Vrindavana.



    “When the fruit of devotional service becomes ripe and falls down, the gardener tastes the fruit and thus takes advantage of the creeper and reaches the desire tree of the lotus feet of Krishna in Goloka Vrindavana.


    This thread is on the question of the MANDATORY following of the four reg.s in relation to devotional chanting and leading a devotional life and not on your DVD project fellows.


    There is no purifacatory precess mandated before one can chant Hare Krsna. Varnashrama or no varnashrama, is not a consideration.


    To further the progress towards suddha nama a lifestyle of simple living and high thinking become important. And again for that no formal varnashrama considerations apply.


    Conversation 2/14/77 Mayapura



    Satsvarupa: Lord Caitanya, when Ramananda Raya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.


    Prabhupada: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Iha bahya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.


    Satsvarupa: But don’t we do that also?


    Prabhupada: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Krishna consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally took sannyasa. He rejected completely material. Nishkincana. But we are not going to be nishkincana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gita. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected everything, iha bahya. Rejected meaning, “I do not take much interest in this.” Bahya. “It is external.” He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.


    Satsvarupa: Varnasrama is not required.


    Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, “I am not brahmana, I am not kshatriya, I am not this, I am not this.” He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srishtam [bg. 4.13]. So we are Krishna..., preaching Krishna consciousness. It must be done.


    Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s practical preaching He only induced them to chant.


    Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.


    Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?


    Prabhupada: Hm?


    Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.


    Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who’ll chant?


    Satsvarupa: But if they won’t chant, then neither will they train up in the varnasrama. That’s the easiest.


    Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.


    Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada...


    Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.

    Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnasrama is not possible.


    Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.


    Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnasrama and like that.


    Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible.


    Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.


    Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya’s chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and...


    Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?


    Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, kshatriyas. There must be regular education.


    Hari-sauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we’re training up as Vaishnavas...


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Hari-sauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?


    Prabhupada: Vaishnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaishnava. It is not so easy to become Vaishnava.


    Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.


    Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava, is not so easy. If Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaishnava, that is... fall down






    So tell me again about you pure chanting? Who is chanting like Haridasa Thakur? Simple sinless living and high pure thinking, in a cave chanting. Who is chanting as such.


    What makes you think chanting and DVD are separate?




    Sorry, I had to drop VC. I did enjoy your contributions there, though.


    Madurya lila, I have wondered about this. We see madurya lila manifest in the teachings of Lord Chaitanya, especially the exchange with ramananda raya.


    Queen Kunti, who is firmly parental, is also fully engaged in madurya rasa when speaking about Krsna and his Gokula dhama adventures. King Bhisma is also entranced similarly, even though he is parent, friend and servant. Sri Uddhava is absorbed in madurya rasa, yet is Krsnas friend.


    So, when we speak of moods, we speak of consciousness. Srila Prabhupadas consciousness is absorbed in madurya rasa, yet he also manifests other flavors as well. Just as he cannot maintain his uttama adhikari stage to teach us, because who needs teaching for an uttama who sees all beings in their pure devotee position? So he becomes madhyama, differentiating between demon and devotee, making devotees out of demons, etc.


    He displays all the rasas for his students. If he told you, you wouldnt believe him. My guess, (here comes the boos from the audience), he is the creator, Lord Brahma, the son, Lord Jesus Christ, and the caretaker of the holy name, Srila Haridas Thakur, all the same person who comes and goes as he pleases.


    Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa



    No boos from CB-r. You have guts Mahak, I will chant at the flag you just raised. Yes, He is Lord brahman, Lord Jesus, Srila Haridas Thakur and in the spiritual world in madhurya lila also, I have SEEN. Only for a momment, but it was Srila Prabhupada for sure. Yes:) to all the above.



  6. Hare Krsna, All


    This is from a DVD conversation in New Orleans 8/1/75



    Prabhupada: Hm? Tax means... Everyone must have some income for maintaining. So brahmanas, they(?) doesn’t require any... They will live on the contribution of the society. Because they are giving for free service, so valuable service, knowledge, so they are provided by the kshatriyas and the vaisyas. So they have no anxiety for earning livelihood. Things are coming. Just like we are maintained. At least people give to me contribution. So similarly, brahmana will live at the cost of others’ contribution. That is source of income. Kshatriyas, they’ll levy tax. Kshatriya is given land. Now he divides the land. I have got, say, two thousand acres of land. So I divide to the vaisyas, one thousand this man, one thousand this man, one thousand. So on condition that “I give you this land. You produce foodstuff or utilize any way. You give me twenty-five percent.”


    Brahmananda: Twenty-five percent of the produce?


    Prabhupada: Whatever you have produced.


    Brahmananda: Not necessarily money.


    Prabhupada: No.


    Brahmananda: But the produce.


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Brahmananda: The grains or the milk or whatever.


    Prabhupada: Whatever, yes. “Give me twenty-five percent. You can utilize the land.” So that is resource of the land.


    Devotee (1): How does the kshatriya build a palace for himself or something like that?


    Prabhupada: That will be done. To keep a prestigious position, they’ll have building, servant, soldiers. Otherwise how they will fear? How they’ll have respect?


    Devotee (1): So the kshatriya is the predominator of the land.


    Prabhupada: Yes. Kshatriya is the owner of the land.


    Devotee (1): And he can take the stones and men and build a big, nice...


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Devotee: ...palace.


    Prabhupada: They, sudras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. “Eat and work, take some pocket...” They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They’ll drink. That’s all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That’s all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don’t produce anything, eat fish. “And let me eat...” Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.


    Jagadisa: Even in the culture of Europe they had kings who had a certain territory and then they would appoint men called vassals to take care of different sections and then the serfs would work on the land.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That is system, whole world. They were called... In India they were called zamindars, Mohammedans, and the Hindu zamindars, small kings. The zamindars are called king also. Anyone who owns land, he is called king.



    So if now they will say ksatriya is puffed up because oppulance/prestige is there, then whom is in false ego? Those who say or ksatriya that has done as Guru spoke?


    This false ego routine is also a snare of maya in that others use it to control in a bad way, stiffling repression, compression from those of REAL envy.



    Hare Krsna,


    Caturbahu das Bahtki-raja


    From the perspective of the duality of this world one would be deemed a "follower of a branch" of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. But if we are true to the real spirit of Krsna Consciousness then we will be seekers of the Truth. This is one idea I have had confirmed by Srila Sridhar Maharaja. I always felt this from the very beginning of my seeking.(Although such seeking is sometimes covered by the clould of sensuous desires). Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur was a revolutionary thinker who promoted daiva varnasrama dharma and opposed asura varnasrama dharma. Catur varnyam maya srstam guna karma vibhagasah (B.G. 4.13) Bhagavan Sri Krsna says that He established these varnas in terms of quality of work, not birth. In Sridhar Maharaja's words, "The preaching mission of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the Gaudiya Matha, has declared totalitarian war against maya, illusion, and even all other existing conceptions of religion. And our authority is Srimad Bhagavatam, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." But also Srila Saraswati Thakur established a society of vaisnava brahmanas and it seems apparent from the history of ISKCON that Srila Prabhupada followed suit. Yet the mid -1970s saw falldowns of sannyasis and big managers of epic and farcical proportions. Now the evidence which you an others have put forth shows that he began to adjust by trying to make ISKCON a society led by vaisnava brahmana's which would also take into account the other three varnas, who are also attracted to Krsna Consciousness on various levels. So after the first stages of Prabhupada's ISKCON experiment, as a spiritual scientist he began to adjust according to the results. Yet, its really how he saw the situation which led to his actions and words. He was seeing the Truth of the situation and that should be an example for all, despite their affiliation. In this way everyone in all the camps must proclaim from on high, "Ich bin ein ISKCONer!"



    I was on pins and neddles your post was sooooo good. Then you went in the 'Zone' and I lost the last 4 words!!!


    Proclaim what 'from on high' ?




    That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.


    So the letter along with tamal and queertanananada was rejected, and their buddies too.


    Rejected by me from 77 on, but irm and ritviks want to keep it, want to use it, and want to bring it back! ahhahahahahhaha



    Why the pretense of missing the point of rejecting previously fallen Ritvics? Or that Tamal as secretary had the duty to 'write' for Srila Prabhupada. And that there is no order to be regular Guru. Which would support your contention.


    You are afraid to admit you have been wrong for yrs? Cann't eat your humble pie? Your blinder of initial protection, have now given you tunnel vission?


    Hare Krsna,


    Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja


    That is just my point, we were told when the letter came out that Bhavananda was putting more then his hand between the legs of youngin's before the letter written by tamal came out.


    So the letter along with tamal and queertanananada was rejected, and their buddies too.


    Rejected by me from 77 on, but irm and ritviks want to keep it, want to use it, and want to bring it back! ahhahahahahhaha



    Not bring back the nuts of abuse! just the order, method of formalities. This will help take the insanity out of the brahman vana too. The Guru syndrome. A tall job I admit. But lets go Rhino hunting or why bother? Your saying why bother.


    I'm say 'because I got'a' and so do many other devotees pine for the shelter of Guru's institutional umbrella, ISKCON. If you do not want, then that is another thing.


    Srila Prabhupada made an institution, ISKCON, to give shelter from the eliments of maya. At least we can take all the instructions and give another go, cann't we? My attachment to it(ISKCON) and desire for it to function, will not go away. Always I will try.


    Hare Krsna,


    Caturbahu das



    In other words he takes the "Prabhupadanuga Fallacy" and ascribes it's origin to Srila Prabhupada himself which if you look at what Shakti-fan and others posted earlier, is quite false. The real problem is that the Rtivks, "Prabhupadanugas" and their fellow-travellers who I call Prabhupada-Onlyites bring on attacks against Srila Prabhupada by their false propaganda of divorcing Prabhupada from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and the entire Rupanuga guru varga. By doing so they sully reputation of the real ISKCON and Prabhupada.



    For myself, I admit I can only know Prabhupada. I only say all Gaudiya in regard to DVD because Srila Prabhupada says that His Guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur wants it(DVD). Then we also know that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur spoke of DVD. So every recent personality in the Paramapara has said. And I have never 'divorced' any previous Acharya. They all agree to DVD.



    SB.5.1.24 purport


    Sometimes we are criticized because although I am a sannyasi, I have taken part in the marriage ceremonies of my disciples. It must be explained, however, that since we have started a Krishna conscious society and since a human society must also have ideal marriages, to correctly establish an ideal society we must take part in marrying some of its members, although we have taken to the path of renunciation. This may be astonishing to persons who are not very interested in establishing daiva-varnasrama, the transcendental system of four social orders and four spiritual orders. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, however, wanted to reestablish daiva-varnasrama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgement of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one’s qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krishna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krishna conscious society.




    Sense Srila Prabhupada is the direction I have taken, then I say on His behave, as He is the current predominant manifestation of the parampara. Other branches of Gaudiyas are not agreeable to DVD, that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta wanted. If you follow a different branch from Gaudiya, then not for me to say, or very little.


    Hare Krsna,



  11. We as devotees are the quiescents of correctness.




    Conversation 1/3/77 Mumbai



    Prabhupada: So your wife came... [break] This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.


    Gopala Krishna: No, I know many women who are very good cooks, I have tasted...


    Prabhupada: They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that “I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased.” That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuffs, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life. They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn’t matter, but must be responsible that “The children should be saved. This is the last birth, no more birth. I’ll train the child in such a way that next life he’s going to Krishna, back to home, back to Godhead.” That is parent’s duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: “I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs.” This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Thakura was grihastha, he produced Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. That is one... So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is grihastha. Produce Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. My Guru Maharaja used to say that “If I can produce krishna-bhakta as children, then I’m prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children.” And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devaki in their previous life. What was the name? Their determination is “If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, tapasya. And when Krishna came, “What do you want?” “I want You.” “Who is like Me? I shall appear. I shall appear.” Anyway, we have got such huge establishment. Utilize it very properly everywhere. Another thing, that in Vrindavana... You remember the corner land, parikrama, last time? That is available by acquirement.

    Gopala Krishna: The corner land to the left? Left of Gurukula? Or...


    Prabhupada: No Gurukula... When we go to the chuni,(?) in front of...


    Gopala Krishna: Ha, ha, ha. In that direction.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That is agricultural land.


    Gopala Krishna: Right opposite...


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Hari-sauri: Where that gate is.


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Gopala Krishna: Right before the gate. That is... I was under the impression that belonged to some Christian man.


    Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is first. After crossing the road, the corner.


    Hari-sauri: Where the parikrama path is.


    Gopala Krishna: That is available for...?


    Prabhupada: Yes.


    Gopala Krishna: Actually that would be good if we get that. It’s right next to our temple.


    Prabhupada: So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.


    Gopala Krishna: Okay. I’m going to Vrindavana in ten days.


    Prabhupada: So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending lakh of rupees for municipality, why not acquire that land?


    Gopala Krishna: Acquire or buy? Acquire.


    Prabhupada: Acquire means you have to pay, but government...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, but acquire usually takes a long time.


    Prabhupada: Not long time. They’ll give us, because it is lying vacant.

    Gopala Krishna: On the sewage problem in Vrindavana, we’ll have to make, do something quickly because even the Gurukula will not be able to open till we can...


    Prabhupada: So you can do it immediately. But go on, purchase. It is lying vacant.


    Gopala Krishna: Okay, that’s a very good idea. But we’ll still have to put a pipe underground coming out.


    Prabhupada: That is not much, a few you, few yards only. And then introduce it and distribute that water, the whole land, and you will get good agricultural produce, very good. You can have very good business.


    Hari-sauri: That can be used for agriculture?


    Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This water is very valuable for agricultural purpose. Nature has made in such a way. Aiye. All rejected water, you can utilize for agriculture.


    Hari-sauri: I think in the West they have a law that says you can’t use human sewage.


    Prabhupada: Kick out the West. We are doing here, in India. The municipality is doing that also in Vrindavana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhapara matha. Dhapara matha, formerly, anything produced in dhapara matha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition that “These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty...” But the vegetables were—cauliflower so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big... Dhapara mathera (Bengali). They used to take. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice... That is utilization of this filthy water where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow’s, cow dung and man’s stool and everyone’s stool, they are wrapped gathered together in the rainy season. It became fertile. (Hindi)


    Gopala Krishna: We will try for the land.


    Prabhupada: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.


    Gopala Krishna: We are sticking to it. The only harm to us is our Gurukula is going to get delayed now, the opening.


    Prabhupada: But in the meantime you...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes. And also we are running out of time because we can’t let water accumulate the way it is.


    Prabhupada: So why you can’t? We have purchased that land. They have to...


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, that is... We’ll try for that now.


    Prabhupada: Yes. That means... We have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court: “We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The municipality is not doing anything.” We have to fight like that.


    Gopala Krishna: Yes, we are fighting.


    Prabhupada: Why you should be afraid?


    Gopala Krishna: No. I mean the water... We’re having all the trouble with the man in the back.


    Prabhupada: That I am speaking, that he’s trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have to purchase the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land... The municipality is obliged. Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is municipal’s duty. Otherwise why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?


    Gopala Krishna: We’re not paying tax. We are fighting it in the court.


    Prabhupada: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to gunda-ism, we shall engage fifty gundas. “Come on. Let us see.” We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore’s one poetry: “One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong.” One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That’s all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kshatriya spirit. Yuddhe capy apalayanam. “If you are challenging, ‘All right, come on,’ I accept this challenge.” We have to do like that. Now, this baniya spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he’s afraid of him. What is this? Baniya spirit. But you are kshatriya.



    August 1, 1975, New Orleans


    Prabhupada: That is time for punishment. They should build up their character, samah, damah, fully controlled. When they like, they become grihasthas. Otherwise they are controlled. That is brahmana. For brahmana it is not compulsory to marry. Kshatriyas may marry more than one wife. They can take. So all girls must be married. That is... They must...They must have one husband, even the husband has got fifty wives. Then the problem of girls’ marriage will be solved. And as soon as one girl is pregnant, she should be separated.

    Hridayananda: From the husband.

    Prabhupada: At least for one and half years.

    Upendra: At the moment of pregnancy? From the moment of pregnancy one and a half years?

    Prabhupada: Yes. Pregnancy is understood at three months. From that month till further, sixteen months at least, she should not come to be near husband. That is eka-kadi (?). The child does not live. And they are not inclined to come unless a man induces. So the man, if he has got more than one wife, so man will not disturb her. And she will take rest for the next eighteen months. So after ten months she will give birth to the child, and for six months continually she will take care of the child. Feeding the child with breast milk, the child will be healthy. If the child can take mother’s milk for six months at least continually, he’ll become healthy for life.

    Upendra: Where do they send that mother?

    Prabhupada: Where they’ll take care.

    Upendra: If the man sends the woman away, where does she...?

    Prabhupada: Our aim is not to give help, but not... Generally she goes to the father’s house. So you can have separate building for that.

    Nityananda: Are you saying that our men should have more than one wife?

    Prabhupada: I have no objection.

    Satsvarupa: That’s a difficult proposition.

    Prabhupada: Why?

    Satsvarupa: It’s not allowed in this country. It’s illegal. It’s against the law.

    Devotee: It’s against the law.

    Nityananda: No, it’s a matter of... No one knows who is married or unmarried, but if you have...

    Prabhupada: That is not very difficult.

    Satsvarupa: Well, the other difficulty, you brought this up several years ago, was that the men who take many wives have to be very select. Otherwise men will be attracted to join our movement for sex life, having different wives.

    Prabhupada: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don’t want. We don’t want ordinary karmis and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we’ll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.

    Satsvarupa: Everything we do, we don’t hide it. We show the world what we’re doing. I don’t see how we could hide that one man had many different wives.

    Prabhupada: If you don’t call wife, you can have. The law allows you to keep boyfriend, girlfriend. Then the... Instead of calling “husband,” call “friend.” That’s all. But, er, it is risky and the man must be responsible to keep... To keep more than one wife by trained-up man is not disallowed.

    Brahmananda : But I think they thought that he could get it legally established, at least in the state of California.

    Prabhupada: Well then go and marry there. If the state of California allows that, then they all can go to California.

    Nityananda: The general public objects to that... It’s very...

    Prabhupada: Public we don’t care. We... What is the public? We have got our own public here. So pub... What is the public? All rascals. They are killing cows and drinking and topless dance, bottomless dance. What is the value of this public? All rascals. I don’t give any importance to this class of public, only after sense gratification, that’s all. They have no ideals of life. They do not know what is God. What is the value of this public? Mudhas, they have been described, mudhas. You know the meaning of mudha?






    Dear Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja, Dandavat pranam,

    You said:

    Srila Prabhupada told us(ISKCON) to take up this DVD, you do not have to do nor agree. I do. And others on this form too. THAT IS ALL. Order is given. <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"></v:path><o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt" type="#_x0000_t75" alt=""><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/cool.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\je3794\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>


    The argument is not that one has or has not to agree with the DVD.

    The argument was: If following and/ or having (daivi) varnashram-dharma as goal of one’s endeavours correspond the teachings of Sri Caitanya and His empowered representatives.

    (and … it does not, as previously shown).

    You also said:


    You are interjecting in a family discussion and not minding your manners. Babaji's will love your arguements. We care not, we are for Prabhupada. And He says to do.


    I don’t know if “babajis will love my arguments", but sure is that Madhavananda das (known in this forum as raga), who follows the teachings of Sri Ananta Das Babaji, generally do not agree with my arguments, so, in this connection I don’t represent any Babaji camp.



    DVD is not VAD! Bhakti is the end goal, never is this said different. DVD is the means to the end goal of practical Bhakti yoga. Daivi means God consciousness. How can you not get this? And Srila Prabhupada has said to do like this. Bas.


    As for 'Babaji camp' non affiliation, that's great!



  13. Lecture BG. 9.3 Melbourne 4/21/76



    The Vedic principle is... People are... Everyone is in ignorance because the evolution is coming from the lower species of life, and in Western countries the Darwin’s theory of evolution is very prominent, and they believe that man is coming from monkey. Of course, the Vedic sastra also says the birth of human being are from three sources: one from the cow, the other from the lion, and the other from the monkey. The “monkey” word is there. Those who are coming in the sattva-guna, modes of goodness, their last birth is as cow. And those who are coming through the rajo-guna, their last birth is lion. And those who are coming through the tamo-guna, their last birth is monkey. Then there are. We have explained many times. The lower animals, less than the human being, they’re eight million forms.




    One symptom of Messiah syndrome is that every criticism is taken in the spirit of Martyrdom. The feeling of persecution is seen as a validation of the Messiah status.


    The Hare Krsna mantra is the present Messiah for the planet. The Lord Himself appearing as His name. To place the focus on getting people to follow the four regs. is misplaced. First chanting and then the power to overcome baser sense desires will follow. Without the name being held in it's proper position preaching the four regs. is just like spitting into the wind.



    I have not said about anything Guru did not say first. That you have this problem with these conversations, is just the poison you drink daily as a food stuff.


    You have a cold heart, sir no name 'Theist'




    My perception has been that the four regs are natural; that is, the soul just doesn't desire these nonsense things. It's all that dust on the mirror of the heart.


    I think it would be very wrong to think the regs aren't necesaary. We need to know where the road is, and acknowledge when we're off course.



    BG 4.26 purport


    The four divisions of human life, namely the brahmacari, the grihastha, the vanaprastha, and the sannyasi, are all meant to help men become perfect yogis or transcendentalists. Since human life is not meant for our enjoying sense gratification like the animals, the four orders of human life are so arranged that one may become perfect in spiritual life. The brahmacaris, or students under the care of a bona fide spiritual master, control the mind by abstaining from sense gratification. They are referred to in this verse as sacrificing the hearing process and the senses in the fire of the controlled mind. A brahmacari hears only words concerning Krishna consciousness; hearing is the basic principle for understanding, and therefore the pure brahmacari engages fully in harer namanukirtanam—chanting and hearing the glories of the Lord. He restrains himself from the vibrations of material sounds, and his hearing is engaged in the transcendental sound vibration of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. Similarly, the householders, who have some license for sense gratification, perform such acts with great restraint. Sex life, intoxication and meat eating are general tendencies of human society, but a regulated householder does not indulge in unrestricted sex life and other sense gratifications. Marriage on principles of religious life is therefore current in all civilized human society because that is the way for restricted sex life. This restricted, unattached sex life is also a kind of yajna because the restricted householder sacrifices his general tendency toward sense gratification for higher transcendental life.



    Restriction is the key to restraint and regulation on the Royal road of Bhakti. This DVD is elimentally inter spaced throughout all the books. You just need the EYES to see.


    If you do not like for yourself, no one would force you. Just like you cann't by force make everyone brahman. This abuse to the lower three varnas by those claiming brahman is disqualification of the top varna. It is not brahman.




    Sorry to hear you have had it so rough. Just remember we are all crazy, that's why we're here in this material world. If we were sane we would be like the other 99% of Jivas that chose to happily serve.


    And because of insanity we were told to imbide a DVD life style that would by the following, automaticly reduce the insanity and increase the Bhakti. Bhakti is the end and DVD is the means. The means justifies the end.




    I'm truly sorry you feel hurt. That wasn't my intention.



    I speak truth, and devotees treat me like I'm mad, as if it is fun and games. I've been abused continuously from day one about DVD in ISKCON and some times I just get a bit raw from it. Like old wounds that are not very healed. Tell what gurukuli has suffered for 34 yrs from the same abuse as he did in the schools?


    The history of ISKCON says it all




    Why doesn't that surprise me :crazy: ?


    Just kidding, I couldn't resist the joke :P, but it does make me think of my concerns that no certifiably crazy demoniac persons get in positions of power in your DVD movement. How this all will be implemented in your society will be interesting. What is the progress anyway, are you guys screaming at the wind or do you have actual traction, at least in Alachua?



    This is a wound to me, not a joke. You should have seen that! I spent time and energy and heart presenting a reqested critic of Alachua temple management. I used many references from Srila Prabhupada and spoke the absolute truth about the situation, my hole family was insulted repeatedly by this temple when we first got here. No, not a joke.


    The same happens on line. I do not make anything up, but you and the dissenters, those adverse to the guru, naysayers and more will make jokes or one way or another divert the conversation away from the point of hole, hearted agreement. What is it? You have been cheated by yourselves for 34 yrs as to what ISKCON is. And thereby cheating others.


    I'm very stupid sometimes that I would actually reveal my heart to them(devotees) because they have rocks for hearts, all hard. Stupid Stupid Stupid. You will get only silver now.




    Why doesn't that surprise me :crazy: ?


    Just kidding, I couldn't resist the joke :P, but it does make me think of my concerns that no certifiably crazy demoniac persons get in positions of power in your DVD movement. How this all will be implemented in your society will be interesting. What is the progress anyway, are you guys screaming at the wind or do you have actual traction, at least in Alachua?




    One thing I do not like, is being taken advantage of when I reveal my heart or the truth. It is just demoniac:mad: and I don't like the continued discription base on advantage taken:mad2:


    No, no place ever with any devotee save and except two in 34 yrs. How 'bout those stitistics?:)


    Not you either!





    Your still struggling with this very SIMPLE point. THEY FELL DOWN, a Ritvic is no longer able to act in that position if they FALL DOWN. THEY CANNOT AUTHORISE THEMSELVES TO INITIATE AGAIN IF THEY FELL.


    Very simple, 'simple for the simple'.


    Prabhu, I find your incoherent ramblings, senseless, and quite delusional. You SPECULATE that the letter is a forgery. That is an unproven assumption and you base everything on a SPECULATION. You stupidly claim that if an order is disobheyed that means the order is bogus!!! Absolutely crazy assumption. Yes Prabhupada said "judge by the result" (I know your going to say that AGAIN!) but you are taking it out of context.


    Your misintepretation of this is that a bona fide order, if disobheyed means that the order was bogus. You could say that the RESULT of Prabhupada comming to the West is thousands of children being abused in the Gurukuls. See how rediculous your logic is. Prabhupada is pure and because some of his disciples deviated that in no way means that Prabhupada was responsible. Similarly the July9th letter is bonafide but those who were asked to act only as Ritviks became guru's.


    I am finished with your speculation and mindless delusional nonsense.




    I'm going to venture a guess that Bk Chris is suffering from extreme burn-out, still after so many yrs. This apparent wall could be a cooping mechanism. The guys heart is still smoldering from previous heat.


    Bk. Chris is hurt, not dumb.




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