ranjeetmore

What you say about the basics is right.But it is also very important to know the most confidential knowledge. At the end of the Geeta,Sri Krsna told Arjuna,"Till now I have given you knowledge of the six darshan sastras.Still your mind doesn't budge.You are still eating My head, "paap! paap! I will incur sin if i kill them".So now,I will tell you the most confidential knowledge." Arjuna sat up straight. Sarva guhyatamam guhya. guhya-means secretive. Only guhya was enough.But He used SARVA GUHYATAMAM GUHYA. tHE MOST private of private of private fact. Arjuna: Wat is it ? Sri Krsna: Sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam sharnam vraja. Arjuna was about to sigh,"Thousands of times you have told this to me to surrender my mind to You,Madhusudana !" but Sri KRsna quickly proceeded,"Aham tvam sarva paapebhyo mokshashyami." Haa.Now Arjuna's brain lit up.He felt like shouting at Sri Krsna,"Why couldn't You tell this at the starting when i told You that I am competely at Your disposal and will do anything You say ?? If You would've told me that You'll take away all my sins,I would have immediately put my mind in You and killed them." (the karma-sanchit karma,etc. is the main cause for bondage of the soul.Only when this karma/sins/paapa/punya evrything is destroyed by Bhagavat-kripa,only then the soul can be said to be liberated.) Bhagavan chuckled,"How would the geeta be delivered for the mankind ?" So the most secretive,the most confidential,the most important knowledge,the summary of the summary of the upanishads is this: Surrender the mind to Sri Krsna.Attach it to Him.Mahatmas are identified after inspecting them against this fact. Everything else follows automatically.There is NO CHANCE IN HELL THAT THE MIND CAN DETACH FROM THE WORLD JUST LIKE THAT.IT HAS TO BE ATTACHED TO BHAGAVAN IN ORDER TO DETACH FROM THE WORLD. aND naturally,if the mind is detached from the world,the person is pure and moreover,if the mind is attached to the most auspicious Person,his mind is purest of the purest...just like bhagavan.

huh???? 90% of Gauranga's associates were grhastas. You have heard of Prahlada maharaja.He ruled the universe but he was one of the greatest mahatmas-a mahajana infact...best among the mahatmas. Dhruva maharaja,etc.. all these people are kings and emperors who rule the world yet remain engrossed in Hari. The mind is the main factor. In the muktikopanishad etc. it is clearly stated that the mind is the sole cause for conditioning and for liberation. So all the associates of Gauranga who were grhastas were top class mahatamas which even the so called sannyasis can never measure up to.This is because their minds were in Sri Krsna. *** this good nature...soft hearted people...who are these ??? These are people in sattva guna... Sri KRsna says in geeta...don't attch your minds to such people...you will only enjoy Brahmaloka at the most... You simply attach your minds to Me and My chelas.We both are beyond sattva guna also... So the mahatmas,are by default situated in divya sattva.They may have a 5 billion dollar mansion,but he is a mahatma if he attached to Sri Krsna completely. This is the proof of mahatma.His mind should be attached to God.Money,it's absence and presence has nothing to do with it.The mahatma should be selfless and that's that. His organisation may be the richest in the world.Only his conduct matters for it reflects his inner,pure nature. Even the gyanis were accepted as mahatmas.The brahmgyanis had their mind attached to Brahm.

raghu, you go on and on about how there is no sastra that supports Sri Krsna's position. I'll tell you exactly what is told to the mayavadis, "Srimad Bhagavatam is the commentary of Srila Vedvyasa Himself on the vedanta." And talking about maharasiks......like the gosvamis' position on the position of Sri Krsna and that of Sri Visnu is NOT MY FERTILE IMAGINATION. It is given in their works.One of the Gosvamis has provided a perfect scholaRLY exposition on WHY BALARAMA AND SRI KRSNA CANNOT BE INCARNATIONS THAT EMERGE FROM ONE WHITE HAIR AND ONE BLACK HAIR OF SRI VISNU respectively or rather WHY THE VERSE WHICH SAYS SO IS INTERPRETATED WRONGLY. That was perhaps the only statement of the vaishnava scriptures that SEEMED not to conform with the position of Sri Krsna as extolled in the bhagavatam.

by everything else i mean your accusation that lead me to start this thread.

I said and i still maintain that mukti or brahm gyan for that matter is achievable only by Sri Krsna's grace... Everything else is your concoction.

who is dhumavati mahavidya ?? does she exist in vaikuntha or no ??? If no,How can she be even equal to Radharani ????

When,oh Tell Me When,have I Ever Said Nirvikalpa Samadhi Is False ????

its good you didn't resort to mud slinging...otherwise (no offense) you'd have made a great fool of yourself.

lol,I like this point(stated/indicated by Sri Gauranga ) : "Materialistic people consider Us mad and We consider the materialistic people mad" I simply do not understand why you thought i was referring to myself when i actually never closed the quotes... the We in the above statement refers only to Bhagavan and His associates.Not me.

this is making me mad. I quit. Sri Krsna is svayam Bhagavan for the gaudiyas and I'll just hold on to that... Radhe Radhe.

Raghuji, Your questions are difficult to answer since they appear so tiring. I can't really explain how i feel or what i believe. For Gaudiyas,Brahm sanghita is a high class text and if it is coupled with the vayu purana revelation (sadashiva resides in Vaikuntha),we obtain the knowledge of sadashiva tattva. Whereas to the Lord Shiva in the material world,I am at a loss to explain.frankly. *** As to your belief that the tamo guna scriptures are to be completely rejected....Shiva himself states in these scriptures that the revelations which conform with the vaishnava scriptures are to be accepted. That's why we reject that Sri Visnu ever gouged His eye to please shankara but on the other hand we accept from the Devi bhagavatam that Sri Radhika is the Supreme Primordial energy. *** Believe it or not,the maharasiks have unanimously proclaimed that Brahma Visnu Mahesa all are searching for Sri KRsnaananda. So also,Tulsidas also states that Brahma,Visnu and Mahesvara all serve Sri Ramacandra. The same tulsidasa however has established the clear nondifference between Visnu and Sri Ramacandra by calling Them Both Hari. So for the Rama bhaktas and the Krsna Bhaktas,the Supreme Brahm mentioned in the vedas Who expands as the three deities of Brahma,Visnu and Shankara is Sri KRsna or Sri Rama. These are very delicate topics and one should not think that Sri Visnu is a servant of Sri Krsna in the menial sense. Servant means...He(Sri visnu) is fully aware of the position of Bhagavan Sri Krsna.

lol,I like this point : "The materialistic people consider Us(Bhagavan and prema bhakta) mad and We consider the materialistic people mad."

This is just marvellous. Sri Caitanya is Radha Krsna. Can you please tell me about the six handed divinity form. It was Sri Krsna,Sri Ramacandra and ???

forgive me,i can't quote(net is excruciatingly slow.) Sonic yogis recent posts are excellent.

No one wants to reconcile shaiva viewpoint.But,the acharyas simply want to provide the right information about the expansions of Godhead,otherwise,there is aparadha.That's all. The Lord Sadashiva expands as the various Shivas(who are RARELY JEEVAS),Who themselves(well,one of them,in bhagavatam) said,"I am His(Sri Visnu's)principle expansion." in the material universe. NOw distinction between sadashiva and Shiva is made even in Shaiva tradition.The Sadashiva linga is present in the sanctum sanctorium of any Shiva temple. The shiva purana talks explicitly of SADAshiva,as the One Who manifests the Universal form and then further turns Himself into Lord Visnu to establish Himself as indifferent from the Supreme Lord. Further Sadashiva is mentioned in brahm sanghita as having a planet in vaikuntha as SADASHIVALOKA. However,The Lord Shiva is understood to be the form of Sadashiva(a Personality of Godhead) Who accepts the influence of Maya. As Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti pointed out,Sadashiva,Like Sri Visnu,resides simultaneously on the planes of Nirguna(transcendence) and saguna(material). So beyond maya,In vaikuntha,He is known as Sadashiva and in mahat tattva,he is known as Mahadeva/Shiva/Rudra etc. There is no difference just as The Form of Visnu Who resides on the Ksirasagara in the material world is non-different from the Narayana,Who is present as the Supreme Monarch of the Vaikuntha sky. The real problem arises when a particular post of Shiva is taken up by jiva.This happens extremely rarely and not as often as in the case of brahma.

Since He and His associates are mentioned in the sloka,How is He considered to be formless ??? Certainly Nirguna has to imply beyond maya in the sloka. When the Vedas talk about Brahm,they address Him,The Supreme Person. The Personality,Sri Krsna is understood to be the basis of all that be.Even Brahmdrav. Mayavada is adamant on one point,"Sri Krsna and Sri Rama are sattvic in nature." The Bhagavatam states that,"It is due to such offenses at the Lotus feet of the Lord,that the gyanis always fall down from their position." Such offenses are condemned. Look at Kabeer.You become a gyani like him na...what do you know bout Bhagavan's body ???

This is the imperishable truth of the upanishads: Sri Krsna can take up any form whatsoever. Remember the gopa who provided milk to a prominent Vaishnavacarya Who was that ?? Who became a gopi,in leela,Just to please Radharani ?? Verily Sri Krsna. As for the question-which is the form of God-kishor,Pauganda,etc.... Only the most deluded fools think that bal Krsna is any less Bhagavan than Sri Krsna of Nikunj....But according to the revelations of the previous acharyas...in nibhrt Nikunj...Where ONLY SRI RADHA KRSNA are present,He is 16 Years old in appearance and so generally gaudiyas worship a 16 yr old Sri Krsna present in the bushes of Vrndavan.

well , i just came across this sloka in my charitamrita which is originally from srimad bhagavatam 10th canto 88thchapter 5th sloka- "harirhi nirgunah saakshat purushah prakriteh parah sa sarvadrig upadrashta tvam bhajannirguno bhavet " translation of the originally bengali translation -- one who worships sri hari becomes nirguna , because sri hari himself is nirguna , beyond prakriti , god(purusha) himself and witness to everything . now this reflects the thought that a devotee attains the characteristics of the diety he worships . and this also indicates to the nirguna nature of sri hari and attests to the advaitic concept of mukti ( becoming nirguna ). what do you think of this ? * can someone provide the iskcon or gaudiya math transaltions and purports to the same for me to compare ? Hari immediately signifies Hari,His actual form,His abode,His pastimes,His parikars,His names everything BY DEFAULT. So you can't just say,"Eh Hari,You are nirguna(formless/without attributes.)" when actually Hari means all His paraphernalia. Satan gyanam anantam brahm- The paraphernalia of Brahm is infinite. So if the verse is,"In your nirguna form,You pervade the entire manifestation,Oh Hari." Then Nirguna here means without attributes. The above sloka(your sloka) states,"Your devotees also become nirguna." Brahatvat brighadvat tat param brahm- Brahm is He Who is Himself the greatest and also makes others great. Great means what ??? Great means beyond maya,equipped with Yogamaya(cit sakti),ever blissful-ever knowledge,ever eternal existence. *** Second point. When we say Hari ,You are Nirguna,it means Hari,that Supreme Person has become(limitation of language) Nirguna.This is possible by His personal energy-Svaroop sakti.He becomes Formless as well as He can become a calf or a gopa. But when the veda states,You are this,You are old man...IT means You(THE SUPREME PERSON) are old man. Similarly,You(Sri Krsna,the Person) are nirguna(have become formless.) The upanishads are very clear about this,"He runs without legs etc etc." He(The PErson Sri KRsna) does this this... This is possible,as explained,becoz of His Svaroop sakti. KArtum akartum anyatha kartum samarth- This svaroop sakti does the impossible possible and do the work even in reverse order and can perform without any restrictions at all.

Posted by Sonic Yogi Originally Posted by Kulapavana Pure Brahman has no form because it can take any form it likes. Can you quote shastric reference to support that claim? What verse from shastra did you get that idea from? svechcha pad prithah vapuh -Srimad Bhagavatam. Sri Krsna can take up any form at His will.He can also become formless.Thus the Upanishadic proclamation,"He can hear without ears and run without legs.". When Lord Brahma abducted the cowherd boys and calves,Sri Krsna took the forms of millions of gopas and calves.Every SINGLE calf was Sri Krsna...for Sri Krsna HIMSELF LITERALLY BECAME THE CALF. Every single gopa and calf was Sri Krsna.This is Only possible in Bhagavan's body. The ornaments on the divine couple's body-sometimes Sri Radha Krsna Themselves become the ornaments and at other times,specially appointed mahatmas are appointed the position. Shankara became Govinda's flute.He became Gopa.He became Gopesvara Mahadeva. So the Supreme Lord can take up any form becoz His forms are infinite. The svetasvatara upanishad,"Tvam kumari..tvam jeernau,dandena vancasi." You can take up any form.Old man.Young girl.anything. So Sri Krsna HIMSELF BECOMES THE FORMS.

and btw how many sadashivas are there according to you ???? Sambhu,the reflection of Karanarnavshayi Visnu's gaze,is not sadashiva. His address is Paravyoma,Vaikuntha.

Shiva... Visvanatha chakravarti thakura is not enough for Sonic yogi... You are absolutely right. Sadashiva-Visnu tattva.(described in vayu purana as being in vaikuntha.Described in rama caritamanasa as The great Lord,The all Pervading Lord,The Lord who is indifferent from Hari,etc.) Shiva-expansion of sadashiva in the material lord. *** "Sadashiva is the Lord of Ramadevi " ??? Where is this coming from ??????

Sri Krsna

You may note the description of Kailasa in Bhagavatam. srila prabhupada ACCEPTED,"There are wish fulfilling trees that are found in Vaikuntha." He didn't say much further...He didn't elaborate... But Giants like Rupa Gosvami are perfectly expound on the truth..

In Gaudiya tradition....Sri Krsna is the Primeval,Original Supreme Person. The devi bhagavat supports this fact. Actually,according to His desires,He takes up many forms. "Sveccha pad prithah vapuh."- Srimad Bhagavatam. She Krsna can take any form at will. For one year,He remained as millions of gopas and calves.But each gopa and each calf was Sri Krsna Himself.The calf's body was as spiritual as would be Sri Krsna's. Only a fool thinks that Sri Krsna becomes something inferior when He manifests as Sadashiva(Sadashiva being an eternal form like Sriman Narayana). The veda states,"Purnat purna mudachyate.." Godhead never becomes less...Yes,He may accept material influence(rudras.) but In Vaikuntha(Sadashiva's abode),Maya doesn't even go there...She CAN"T go there.. ***

Actually tuslidasa's ramacaritamanasa was concieved by Uma pati Himself. Tulsidasa realises the initimate and complex relationship between the two lords perfectly. Also Visvanatha chakravarti offers his faultless advice: When the sastras procalim that Visnu is NEVER to be considered as same as Shankara or brahma is becoz they are Jivatmas(Shiva-SOMETIMES). It is very important to note that the bhagavatam glorifies Sadashiva as,"You assume the forms of Brahm,Visnu and Mahesvara in the material world." This signifies fully the indifference of sadashiva and Lord Visnu/Narayana. In Vaikuntha...the Lord appears in many eternal forms...As sadashiva,He worships Himself. Unless and until you read reread and reread the underlined sentence,you will never understand Sadashiva.