ranjeetmore

according to Sri tulsidasa,Sadashiva is a manifestation of Sri Hari but at the same time,He practises unbroken devotion to Sri Ramacandra(as hanuman,As Himelf in kailasa) and Sri Krsnacandra(as flute,as gopa,as gopesvara mahadeva,as bhima-ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY.) And if you speculate how is this possible-Sri Parashurama worshipped Lord Shankara...by your process,even Parashurama cannot be God...

Your sure he is an avatara from Ramakrishna's shadow... the followers of ramkrshna do have reverence for 'avtaara' but the notion about how an avataar is,springs from their constant nonsense speculation,and not as per the bhagavtam.... Ramakrishna's 'avataarhood' was not recognised even by his most 'exalted' disciple- vivekananda. Ramakrsihna's teachings would even make shankaracharya beat his head against the wall,of this,there is no doubt. *** Ramakrishna : "Bhagavan,Bhagavatam and Bhakta are one." (this actually references the secretive doctrine of bhakti...that Bhagavan,His parshads and His leelas all live within Him..even the bhakta is one with bhagavan...this is intimate knowledge.Now obviously..ramakrishna's followers spun a disastrous web around this statement.) "Shankara chants the name of Rama when He is on the plane of duality(or whatever nonsense that is.)" he constantly sang that Narada is Srivasa,Baladeva is Nityananda but not ONCE...not ONCE did he sing that Sadashiva has come as advaita...for that would mean bhavani has come as His wife. or did his rascal devotees not note it down ????

you cannot possibly equate gauranga's avatarhood with sai baba etc... obviously His avtaarhood has backing...But there is a difference...Al His associates themselves are incarnations of various didvine personalities from vaikuntha. Ramakrsihna accepted this.He sang,"Krsna has come as Gaura,Baladeva as nityananda,Narada as srivasa...Oh when will I cry chanting gaura gaura !!" You go to navadvipa.There are still shotriya brahm nishta mahatmas crying gaura gaura. Sri Visvanatha...such a great mahatma,fully versed in the vedas,upanishads,vedanta,etc is dancing in front of gaura. Gaura's is not your ordinary lay man's claim to avataarhood.He comes with baggage.He comes,undeniably,with the purest form of bhakti.He comes with no nonsense establshment of Sri Krsna as Supreme Godhead.He comes with such big big associates...mahatmas of such stature that even the 'avataras' are put to shame...Plus He displays Mahabhava. Sai baba,etc ?? No offense but they seem lacklustre. gaudiyas are less vedantic ???? Srila Vedavyasa COMMENTED ON HIS OWN BRAHM SUTRA-Bhagavatam. Bhagavatam is the essence of all.especially vedanta. Shankaracharya accepted,"The incarnation of Lord Narayana stated that Sri Krsna awarded Golok to putana." Veda vyasa whispered in shakracharyas' ear awhat ??? No.That's silly.Sri Shankaracharya is referring to Bhagavatam...written by Vedavyasa.His original commentary on the vedanta. So gaudiyas and nimbarkis are perhaps as vedantic as anyone can get.

purva mimansa is a farce.Kaitava.It is fraud. There is a reason why all the acharyas have commented on the Brahm sutra.For the Vedanta alone satisfies the question to the eternal search for happiness/bliss/ananda. None of the darshand sastras have this aspect.That's why they are never considered as scriptures leading to the supreme truth. The vedanta commentaries,especially acintya bheda abheda solve all problems.

They are two different dieties yes. But Sadashiva is nondifferent from Sri Visnu. Brahma Vaivarta Purana (Prakriti Khanda 2.56.61) svapne jagarane sasvath Krsna dhyana ratah Sivah yatha Krsnas tatha sambhur na bhedo madhavesayoh "Sleeping or awake, Siva is constantly absorbed in meditation on Sri Krsna. As is Sri Krsna, so is Sambhu; there is no difference between Madhava and Isa." Skanda Upanishad (8-9.) “I bow to Siva of the form of Visnu and Visnu who is Siva; Visnu is Siva’s heart and Siva, Visnu’s. Just as Visnu is full of Siva, so is Siva full of Visnu. As I see no difference, I am well all my life.” Sadashiva is visnu tattva...according to the gaudiyas atleast. [4.6.49] bhavams tu pumsah paramasya mayaya durantayasprsta-matih samasta-drk taya hatatmasv anukarma-cetahsv anugraham kartum iharhasi prabho “My dear Lord(Sadashiva), you are never bewildered by the formidable influence of the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore you are omniscient and should be merciful and compassionate toward those who are bewildered by the same illusory energy and are very much attached to fruitive activities.” Mohini avatar was Lord Visnu Himself.Her body was ALL SPIRITUAL.Her dealings were all spiritual. Now Sadashiva Who burnt kaamdeva is hardly the one Who becomes lusty. He was attracted to Mohini becoz She was all attractive Lord Visnu. This is dealings of yogamaya...not maya. I can provide more evidence from bhagavtam...but it will only disturb you...I'd rather you not start questioning the authority of Bhagavatam. there is A CLEAR CONSISTENT WAY. Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura is perhaps one of the most exalted in Gaudiya line. "In different kalpas,sometimes very elevated jivas or sometimes LOrd Visnu Himself take up Lord Shiva's position.But the One known as Sadashiva is beyond the reach of the modes of material nature or gunas;he is the vilasa expansion of the supreme lord,Visnu.He is also the fountainhead of Lord Shiva,one of the guna avataras.Therefore,Sadashiva is superior to brahma,equal to Lord Visnu,superior to and separate from the Jeevas,who are under the three gunas." further,"consciousness is of two types:1) Supreme Independent consciousness and 2) dependent consciousness/Jeeva.The supreme concsiousness is further divided:a) that which is beyond maya's jurisdiction and b)that which VOLUNTARILY accepts the influence of maya for the carrying out of material affairs.Lord Narayana belongs to the first category(a) and Siva to the second(b)(not sadashiva)." "Becoz both sadashiva and Lord Visnu embody the same supreme consciousness,They are non-different.They reside simultaneously on dual planes of transcendence and material nature " "But the hari bhakti vliasa(1.73) states: If a person after considering all these facts equates Lord Visnu with Brahma or Siva,he is condemned to hell." Visvanatha Chakravarti thakura further puts light on this contradictory situation,""The basis of this scriptural injunction is that brahma is generally a jivatma,but shiva also is sometimes a jivatma.People who have not researched deeply into this end up forming their own speculative theories "Lord Visnu is God and not Lord Shiva." or "Lord Shiva is the supreme not Sri Visnu." Polemics leads to offences.The real qualitative nondifference of Shiva and Visnu is to be understood.

Shaiva philosophy teaches nonsense.There is no personal form of God according to them... "shiva is jeeva and jeeva is shiva." *** Sadashiva is manifestation of Govinda in accordance with His desire to serve Himself.That's why we consider Shiva as Greatest Vaishnava. In gaudiya Vaishnavism...Sadashiva appears as one of the Panca tattva. Lord Visnu,the Supreme Lord of Vaikuntha displays full opulence and is master of the Spiritual world...whereas Sadashiva is form of God Who is engaged in serving Sri Krsna,right there in the spiritual world...

Visvanatha chakravarti thakura is very clear on this point. He states that Sadashiva and Lord Vishnu 'embody the same Supreme consciousness.' further,In Srimad Bhagavatam,it is stated clearly,in lord Brahma's praise,that Sadashiva is Brahm beyond the material manifestation. Further,Lord Brahma ACCEPTS that 'You are NEVER BEWILDERED BY THE SUPREME LORD's MAYA.' Thus it is established that Sadashiva is Parama Vaishnava...But it is Govinda in fact Who appears as Sadashiva to serve Himself. Those are ignorant fools who think that God can become less.He manifests the required potency according to His(Sri Krsna's) desires. In the end,it is all the divine couple's desire that is being carried out...whether Sri Krsna becomes sadashiva to Serve Himself. The four kumaras..when they met Nimbaditya...the four of Them became one personality-Gauranga. How is it possible that Saktyavesa avtaras became Bhagavan ??? It is possible..becoz it is the same Godhead Sri KRsna Who comes as avataras...according to time,place,He reveals required amount of potency. I remember you had belittled Mohini avatara in a similar way...

precisely. When we say Sadashiva is a personality of God...some of them flipped... Bhagavatam is saying. Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti thakura is saying. But no.Demigod. fine.Go on doing nonsense...can't be helped.

Durga is Yogamaya.It is only conclusive that anyone should worship Her to attain Sri Krsna. Gopis did it in leela. *** The reason why Gopis didn't attain Sri Krsna as husband is because they never really wanted Him as hunsband. You must be dumb to even think that Bhagavan doesn't fulfill His devotees' wishes,and we are talking of the gopis here. So Katyayani's inability to perfom the task isn't something to sneer at.Yogamaya arranges whatever is wished by Bhagavan and His bhaktas,Him being the epicentre of everything.

I think the sentence was,"Hladini sakti is the MAINSTAY of all the energies..." Radha Krsna are the same Godhead.Radha emanates from the Purusha Sri Krsna Only in leela. It is evident that all your nonsense speculations are not letting you see properly. The Nimbraka sampradaya(it's 'authentic' according to you right ??) has crystal clear views on this.Radha and Krsna are one and the same.Sanat kumar sanghita is what the kumaras taught to Nimbarka.And might i add that the Nimbarka sampradaya has ACTUAL SHOTRIYA BRAHM NISHTAM mahatmas EVEN TODAY that head the sampradaya,thus not ending up in delusional theories like the ones which you have concocted. She may be the energy But still they are the same Supreme Brahm.

THE GOVERNMENT RESERVES THE RIGHT TO FIRE AT PEOPLE THROUGH THE AGENCY OF THE POLICE. NOW,THE POLICE MAY BE ASKED,"WHY DID YOU KILL 20 PEOPLE ?" THE POLICE REPLIES,"iF WE HADN'T KILLED 20 PEOPLE,200 PEOPLE WOULD'VE DIED." JUDGE:" REALLY ?" POLICE:"YEAH.THOSE 20 WERE CULPRITS." JUDGE:"FINE FINE...WHICH RASCAL FILED A CASE AGAINST THE POLICE ??" *** tHE dharma...i.e. the four dharmas : Brahman,Ksatriya,Vaisya and Sudra and the four Ashrams: Brahmcharya,Grhasta,Vanaprastha and sannyasa are THE LORD's INGENIOUS IDEA TO KEEP THE UNIVERSE FUNCTIONING. It is not a Joke. If you want the Universe to function,you follow these varnas and ahrams.Period. Now,according to Ksatriya dharma,the impious(appropriately impious.not the ones who lie to the parents.) are to be killed. There are two reasons. 1)so that they cause no more murder,impiety. AND 2) Their chances of incurring more sin upon themselves(by murdering others,etc.) is curbed. Once a cold blooded killer.Always a cold blooded killer. FOR YOU,POINT NO. 2 IS MOST IMPORTANT. So God,Who is impartial and merely hands out the reactions of the individual ,was Present,in this Case,Personally.There is hardly anything confusing or ghastly in this.It's a dharmayuddh,fought not so that those who do not worship Sri Krsna could be killed (Bhisma was a Krsna Bhakta.),but so that the impious are killed.

The nayanmars are certainly an exceptional case...reflecting the fact that Lord Shankara does have associates in the Spiritual world(Ganas,nandi etc.)... But i see no reason as to why "Shaivas" or "shaktas" have anything to offer on bhakti... Their traditions are rooted deeply in mayavaad and nonsense theories like "Shiva is Jeeva etc."

are you saying that Bhakti marga/upasana marga as described in the vedas could be corroborated with the revelations of Shaiva,Shakta texts ??? If yes,then I'm only happy. But I doubt. Vaishno devi, Pashupatinath... people only with desires go there...Then there are the khopda babas who smoke ganja,etc.Then there are people who are after kundalini... all these ways do not describe the epicentre as the Personal form of Bhagavan(read: Durga,Shankara).

the bhakti 'movement' was existing when Prahlada used to dance among his classmates and urge everyone to sing the glories of the lord millions and millions of years ago. The Bhakti 'movement' was certainly present when Nimbaditya imparted teachings of Sri Radha Krsna as handed down by the four kumaras,way back in 3000bc. the bhakti 'movement' began when Brahmadeva emerged from the lotus from the navel of Sri Narayana and sang praises to the Supreme Lord. The process of sadhana bhakti is nowhere found in any saivite,etc scriptures.(that doesn't mean that devotion to Shankara,Devi performed in accordance with the bhagavata sampradaya shouldn't award Manidvipa or Shivaloka in Vaikuntha.)

Alas !!! ALas !!! I love you !! I have found the right views on Durga tattva. demigoddess..this that...Iskconites have made me do more apradha than sukriti.... THANK YOU PRABHUJI !!!! seriously... Now I can freely bow before Durgadevi...

sonic yogi...your nonsense speculations are only leading to nama apradha. The Hladini Sakti is the controlling energy of all the Other energies.Prema Bhakti,which stays in Bhagavan's pocket,is the saar bhoot tattva of Hladini Sakti. This Prema Bhakti Herself Subdues Sri Krsna and thus Sri Krsna is always under the control of Radharani(a way of seeing it.) When you say that Radha is just energy ...What energy ?? She's formless awat ??? Nonsense... She is a form of God..the only Form of God,Who Experiences the highest form of bliss of Maadan bhava. you should stop this nonsense...your causing others' falldown too by this ..

conclusion is: The vaishnavas have every right to believe that Shankaracharya performed Krsna bhakti..for his life events and his works reflect the Padma Purana revelation. it depends now from person to person...if he accepts or no... anyways..i was reflecting...and i realised...I'm just fighting in futility. The Lord says and so do His mahatmas: Even out of crores of actual muktas,hardly one can attain to that prema bhakti... so it is no suprise that even those who understand and accept the theoretical siddhanta of Sri Krsna bhakti and prema is very very less. (I'm not talking about those who ask money or those who sing,"taar do,taar do"/"deliver me,deliver me" to bhagavan.)

he certainly did not comment of Siva sahasranama and lalita sahasranama or either of those geetas. He used the same praises ?? where ? shiva manasa puja and soundarya lahiri ?? Why accept those texts if prabodha sudhakara is not??? Certainly not.There are no prema bhaktas of Naryana even,let alone Shankara or Devi. But some krsna bhaktas in the past have been known to glorify Uma-mahesvara(tulsidasa),Ganesha(Nyaneshvara),even Narada extols Sadashiva as The Brahm beyond maya in bhagavatam. However,the bhakti text...from bhagavatam to shandilya bhakti sutras to narada bhakti sutras...they all assert Sri Krsna and Lord Visnu in general to be the object of Bhakti. Some cases could be pointed out,where devotees worshipped Devi and Shankara not even for moksa or svarga...but the bhagavata dharma reserves the rights to the rules of bhakti to any form of God. This is where the padma purana comes in... It is described that the Supreme Lord told Lord Shankara to do whatever Sri Shankaracharya did. You won't accept it,eventhough it couldn't be more clear.But certainly,the Vaishnavas can conclude that Shankaracharya did Sri Krsna bhakti and is none other than the great Lord Mahesvara,who served the Supreme Lord.

No.Sri Krsna NEVER CONTROLS THE THOUGHTS.We are not rocks that He will control our thoughts/or us.If He was controlling our thoughts,He would keep our minds attached to Him and surrendered to Him,for He is causelessly merciful. He certainly controls the experiences in the sense that His Svarupa sakti gradually strengthens our minds as we practice smarana or in short,according to the percentage of surrender of the mind. As the mind becomes situated in sattva guna...i.e. when it becomes pure,Svarupa Sakti makes the mind spiritual and only then can the mind concieve the pastimes of Sri KRsna.He certainly has visions before this ...but now he is fit to recieve spiritual knowledge. So it is very important to note the fact that WE HAVE TO ENGAGE THE MIND in smaranam of Sri Krsna,whether it is learning to be aware that He is situated as Paramatma in the heart or whether it is remembering His beautiful form and cute pastimes and literally crying out of yearning. Sri Krsna notes this melting of the mind...how much the heart yearns...and this yearning comes only when you remember His various pastimes and want to be a part of them. It is found that even after performing rigourous sadhana bhakti,the sadhaka doesn't advance...this is because he doesn't intentionally develop this yearning...

devI kRSNa mayI proktA rAdhikA para devatA sarva laKSmI mayI sarava kAntis saMmohinI parA (Caitanya Caritamritam Adilia, ch 4, 82-99 - taken from Brhad-GautamIya-tantra) "The transcendental Goddess Radharani is NON-DIFFERENT from Lord Sri Krishna. She is the Origin of all Lakshmi devis, Who derive Their beauty and powers from. She possesses all the attractiveness to attract the all attractive Supreme Lord. She alone is the Primeval Divine Potency." tayo rip yubhayor madhye rAdhikA sarvadhAdhikA mahAbhAva svarUpe yaM guNair ati garIyasI (Ujjvalanilamani - Sri Roopa goswami) Among the both Divine Personalities, Radhaji is considered always highest, as She alone is the embodiment of the Supreme Bliss of Mahaa Bhaava. yaH kRSNAH sA 'pi rAdhA yA rAdhA kRSN yeva saH (Narada Panca Ratram) Sri Radha and Krishna are of the same Essence. The Divine form that has been manifested as Krishna, is of Radha's and Sri Krishna Himself is the same Radha. ye yaM rAdhA yas ca kRSNo rasAbdhiH ddehazcaikaH krIdanArthaM dvidA bhUt (RadhikA tapaniyopanishad) The Divine couple, Radha and Krishna constitute the unfathomable Ocean of ultimate Divine Bliss. They have assumed Two Personalities only to engage in sublime pastimes of Divine Love. She is the Mother of Lord Mahavishnu. (Brahm Vaivarta Purana) Radha ardhtanu hari. Harirardhatanu radha. Radharani and Sri Krsna are THE SAME. ekam buddhi,eka atma. They have the same buddhi and They are the same Personality of Godhead. Some mahrasiks mainly side with Sri radha,and declare Her Superior,while others side with Sri KRsna and declare Him to be superior.This is done in PURE humour. Even the sadhaka can make such claims humourously,"You made Svayam Bhagavan Sri krsna assume the form of a Gopi and He served Your feet,Oh Radha !" "Sri Radhika is crying for You Oh Sri Krsna !" but the siddhanta is Eternally the same,"Radha and Krsna are not separate at all." It is your speculation that They differ in Their position and/or Person.

Oh my god.Oh my God. Did you just say that Radha Krsna pastimes are not literal ??? Radha EMANATES FROM SRI KRSNA.This is given even in the vedas for God's sake. Sri Radhika Herself is Sri Krsna and vice versa.But there ARE TWO FORMS FOR LEELA"S SAKE. If you say that an ordinary bhakta CANNOT understand the nature of rasa,you are wrong. WE CANNOT TASTE/UNDERSTAND the Rasa itself.We,in our present condition,cannot understand what kind of bliss Yashoda or Lalita,Vishakha experience.HOWEVER,we can understand the NATURE.It is spiritual,etc. etc. To UNDERSTAND THIS, "Siddhanta bali aa chitte na kor aalas."- Gauranga Mahaprabhu. In understanding siddhanta in theory,never be lazy. If a rascal points out that Sri Radha Krsna's pastimes were like this and like that,even a devotee,who has zilch realisation points out the sastric conclusions and he himself is firm in knowing that Their pastimes cannot be anywhere near material. So,even in smarana,he infuses this sentiment. Sri Rupa said there are no restrictions in bhakti.You dress Shyamsundar,you braid Radha's hair in smarana...this is not demoniac...this is developing attachment towards God. Yes,but if you are straight and you think you can do shringaar of Radha,you are sahajjiya.Only Sri Krsna is the object to profess the various bhavas to. Kubja performed sakaama bhakti.She wanted to enjoy Sri Krsna.Kaama bhava she had.Did she get Goloka ? Yes.Sir. So what did she do ?? Demonstrate on others her sentiments ???(this is sahajjiya) No. She yearned for Sri Krsna i.e. she constantly remembered Him.She didn't want satisfaction of her present body(this is like asking svarga from bhagavan.) She wanted Sri Krsna.(even if it was sakaam.) She perfected her remembrance.Period. Kamsa.He would see Sri Krsna in HIS FOOD PLATE !!! I myself have thought of seeing old ghosts of women when i was small,coz i used to constantly think of them when i was alone.. so kamsa used to think of Sri Krsna constantly.He went to goloka.

No offense but... It's like saying,"I will serve the poor people.Eventhough I am myself a beggar,I will help them." If prema is not there,how can anyone reform others ??? He himself will fall down.He has no bank balance.He has no experience of Sri Krsna even in the least degree. Bhaktivinode thakur says,"If your just chanting mechanically,there's no use." YOU CAN"T ADVANCE BY SIMPLY CHANTING,WHEN YOUR THINKING ABOUT HALWA AND PURI. The MIND ENGAGES PERFECTLY when it is thinking about what services to perform to the Divine couple,with a clean,capable body(means spiritual body.) And since,we cannot even concieve a spirtual body,we have to make do with an imaginary one(beautiful,fragrant,etc etc.) The Brahmana in Bhagavatam...he would do this smarana religiously.He would imagine a gold plate,the best food,the best clothes for Sri Krsna. Once,in his smarana,he put his hand in the plate,to check if it's too hot to serve the lord.His finger burnt and his smarana broke.He was astonished to see his finger burnt. WE CANNOT EVEN SEE THE REAL FORM OF GOD,WHICH SHANKARA,etc. SEE. We have to remember.As soon as our smarana becomes more and more clear and infused with surrender and love,Bhagavan will keep providing His svarupa sakti. We experience ananda and that is how we keep on the sadhana track.When such smarana is advanced,we slowly begin to realise the indifference of Govinda and His names.THEN THE REAL FUN BEGINS.ONLY THEN YOU start taking SRI NAMA. Before that is just nama bhasa and in 99.999% cases,Namapraadha. Radhe Radhe.

but then you confuse me.. let me get this straight as i've frankly never heard the term before. Kulapavana ji, Is siddha pranali : concieving an imaginary bhava deha in the mind and performing service to the Divine couple in smarana ????

oops i didn't read post #167 sorry.My bad.

You think you have a spiritual form right now ??? That's saying you are Bhagavan. Only Bhagavan is indifferent from His form.Your spiritual body will be attained according to your bhava.This is final. Only Sri Radha Krsna are indifferent from Their body.If you say you are too,then you should be classified as Svarupa shakti vishisht ansha-like the ashta sakhis or any form of God. Till yesterday i would've liked to be a mother-like to Sri Krsna.Today,after hearing His pastimes,I would like to be in Nikunj,with the gopis.Then I start the sadhana as considering myself with a body conforming to that bhava. So where is your original svarupa gone ????