ranjeetmore

i find it funny that after providing so many quotes of the Gaudiya acharyas,you insist on calling Shiva as a demigod...like Varun or agni. In Bhagavaa 1.3.28 the "demigods" Manus, etc are also referred to as "amshas" of the Lord. Do you accept that they are identical to the Lord?

advaitas who perform krsna bhakti are certainly not foolish...but they surely are stubborn...Gauranga is shouting,"Don't ask for mukti ! Don't ever ask for mukti !!" and they are adamant.

gaudiya vaishnavite who followed tantra..I'm not taunting...but can you explain how it works ????? i mean...how ??

oh but look what adi shankaracharya says,"Shuddhayati na antar aatma krsna padambhoj bhaktimriteh." and the upanishads say,"mind is the reason for conditioned and liberated states." So those people who have ACTUALLY attached their minds to sri Krsna fully can be said to be mahatmas.

after Srila prbhupada. no.

You kinda always had the habit to show the person down before you actually took out bits and pieces of his post and went on and on. Amsa loosely means part.My post was meant to imply that the amsas(sva amsas) of Godhead are identical with Him. If could be so kind enough to give me a better word than 'part',i would substitute it in my post. That Mahavishnu being an amsa of Sri KRsna is fully identical with Him. Similarly,Durga of the material world(mahamaya),being a amsa/transformation/reflection of Durga of vaikuntha(yogmaya),is identical with Her. Srila Krsna Dvaipayana Veda Vyasa is an incarnation of the lord.From what angle does Veda Vyasa or for that matter Parashurama display the same properties as Sri Visnu? Mohini.Does She look like Sri Vishnu ??? Does She have properties Like Him.How can She and Laxmipati have any property in common whatsoever ?? Shaivites have always advertised Shankara as DIFFERENT from Vishnu,as INDEPENDENT from Vishnu. You seem to accept their view than to accept the gosvamis' view that Sri Krsna takes up the form of Sadashiva just as He takes up the form of Nrsingha. That just makes you short sighted.You BELIEVE that shankara is some completely different tattva. There were so many elevated Gaudiya saints who maintained the view that "Durga lives in Vaikuntha". DO YOU CALL THEM FOOLS LIKE YOU OBVIOUSLY CALL ME IN YOUR MIND ? No. There's your answer. It does when you call a personality of God or His expansions as a tattva who is under maya. I didn't criticise them.Mahatmas have their own reasons....If you think they should all agree with only one siddhanta,there wouldn't have been 4 different doctrines. fair. Mahamaya and yogmaya. precisely.Thank you.I happen to have the exact same view. In the same vein as Sri Krsna is mentioned in the chandogya upanishad as being having obtained the knowledge of Brahm from His 'guru'.Right ?? And to say Krsna is Svayam Bhagavan,the basis of Brahm !! Besides, Even not considering Svetasvatara upanishad,there are other upanishads glorifying Shankara. To help others avoid to offense of ever thinking that :"Visnu's energies or even one of them can ever be limited,or not supremely powerful" and continuously try to call Uma-Mahesvara as demigods.

EXCELLENT...Seriously

Raghu,I have two words for you: Svetasvatara Upanishad.

A millionth part of an expansion of Radha.... this statement doesn't mean Radha becomes inferior...How the hell will She become inferior ?? Maya CANNOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR BHAGAVAN.Even Shankara-he is explained as "When Godhead accepts influence of maya" seems misleading...How can God be bewildered by maya ? He may certainly take up a form decorated with snakes and surrounded with ghosts,and act as though He gets angry,but intelligent people are not bewildered.

Lord Krsna takes up the Caturvyuha forms.One of Them is Sankarsana. This Lord sankarsana again takes up four more Forms.One of Them is again called Sankarsana. Of this Person,Lord Mahavishnu,the Purusha,The Primeval Lord,is but a part(amsa). Now when the we say part of a part of a part of a part of Lord Krsna...do you think we mean that Brahm Sri Krsna is cut four times ??? Or somehow He is made inferior ??? Or He is diluted...His Godhood is diluted ??? No.The Purusha Sukta states This Mahavishnu as the Sole cause of all there is..the Supreme Being..The eternal Purusha. What to speak of the Ksirodashayi Vishnu,Who is seated as Paramatma ??? He is a part of a part of Mahavishnu. But still,in geeta,Sri Krsna says,"Ha-Yes,I Myself am seated in everyone's heart." Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti thakura says that both Sadashiva and Narayana are present as Themselves on the saguna plane as Shiva and Vishnu.Lord Shiva,in this saguna feature,is apparently bewildered by the three modes of maya and foolishly,is thought to be some petty Jeevatma. Sastras tell us how maya is a reflection of Yogmaya.It is not wrong to say that a millionth part of an amsa of Radha(Durga of Vaikuntha) is Durga of the material world. But still,the durga of the material world is Mayadevi and identical with Purusha/Bhagavan. The potency is never seperate from sri Krsna.All potencies of Sri Krsna are supremely powerful(otherwise anyone could have crossed maya). Maya,the potency is inert,but the Personality-Mayadevi-is like the saguna feature of Yogmaya.As said earlier,the potency is One and has all Her desires fullfilled at once(satyakaama).But She always acts according to the will of Bhagavan.After all Bhagavan is one..There is no fighting between Varaha and Nrsingha.Even if there is,it is leela.

Hey bhaktajan...awesome info...thnx.

I'm not manufacturing anything.

How many forms of God ???? are you serious.

ummmmm,maybe because every generation from 500 years ago witnessed top class mahatmas spring from the same line ?????

What the shaktas or Shaivas(most of them) say is not true now is it.

wow,love you smaranam... are you from Nimbarkara sampradaya ??

sHANKARA TELLS NARADA IN BRAHM VAIVARTA PURANA “Please hear, O Narada, and I will tell you the meaning of these mantras. The material world is manifested by the Lord’s maya potency and other external potencies. The spiritual world is manifested by the Lord’s chit potency and other internal and everlasting spiritual potencies. The protector of these potencies is said to be the gopi Sri Radha, who is Lord Krishna’s beloved. The transcendental goddess Sri Radha is the direct counterpart of Lord Sri Krishna. She is the central figure for all the goddesses of fortune. She is the pleasure potency of Lord Krishna. The wise say that She is the pleasure potency of Lord Krishna. Durga and the other goddesses in the world of the three modes are a million-millionth part of one of Her expansions. She is directly Goddess Maha-Lakshmi and Lord Krishna is Lord Narayana. O best of sages, there is not the slightest difference between Them. O best of sages, what more can I say? Nothing can exist without them. This universe made of spirit and matter together is Their potency. She is Durga and Lord Hari is Shiva. Lord Krishna is Indra and She is Shachi. She is Savitri and Lord Hari is Brahma. She is Dhumorna and Lord Hari is Yama. O Narada, please know that everything is Their potency. Even if I had many hundreds of years, I could not describe all Their glories.” Millionth millionth part of which expansion ??? The durgadevi of Vaikuntha.The Durgadevi of Vaikuntha is identical with Radhika just as the Expansions of the Lord are identical with Him. This is not mayavada.This is sastric knowledge and accepted by the acharyas. The greatest of Gaudiya vaishnavas or even Nimbarkis accept a certain attribute of Sri Krsna.That of being sajatiya bheda shunya. This signifies Brahma,Vishnu,Mahesvara,Sarasvati,Rama,Uma etc are indifferent with Lord Sri Krsna. Sometimes Lord Shankara and even Lord Brahma are accepted as eternal and possessing some attributes of Lord Vishnu that no devata can ever come to possess.For these reasons sometimes Brahma is called indifferent from sri Visnu and Lord Shankara is said to be the same.This doesn't undermine Sri Visnu's position.That is foolish to think. This is the truth.These things are very complex and i can NEVER SAY I WILL EVER UNDERSTAND THEM FULLY.

Durga is identical to Krishna, as told by Jiva Goswami in this commentary to Brahma Samhita: " Durga is also described in Narada-pancaratra, in the following conversation of Sruti and Vidya: Durga is the supreme goddess. She is an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is the transcendental(The person Durga is transcendental) potency of the Lord. She is manifested from the form of Lord Maha-Vishnu. Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise. Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following statement of the Nirukti: Even is one continually worships her, Durga is still difficult to understand. In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares: I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune. She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood. Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra: Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death. " Digambara: What is this visnu-maya? Advaita: In the Candi-mahatmya of the Markandeya Purana (81.40), visnu-maya is described, mahamaya hareh saktir yaya sammohitam jagat: “The potency of Bhagavan by which the entire world is bewildered is known as mahamaya.” Digambara: Then who is the goddess I know as Mother Nistarini? Advaita: She is Sri Hari’s external potency known as visnu-maya. Digambara opened his book on tantra and said, “Look, it states in tantra-sastra that my divine mother is consciousness personified. She possesses full will and she is beyond the three qualities of material nature, yet she is the support of those three qualities. Your visnu-maya is not free from the influence of the modes of nature, so how can you equate your visnu-maya with my mother? This type of fanaticism on the part of the Vaisnavas really irritates me. You Vaisnavas have blind faith.” Advaita: Brother Digambara, please don’t be angry. After so many days you have seen me again. If I say ‘the maya potency of Lord Visnu’, how have I become small-minded? Lord Visnu is the all-knowing Supreme Personality of Godhead. All that exists is His potency. The word ‘potency’ does not mean a substance. Rather it means the quality that a substance possesses. Therefore the statement that a potency is the root of all existence goes counter to the truth. A potency cannot exist apart from its substance. An original substance with a spiritual form must first be accepted. After all, the commentary on Vedanta-sutra declares: “The potency and the possessor of the potency are not different.” The meaning, then, is that the potency does not exist apart from its substance. The only true substance is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of potencies. The nature of the potency is either to be a quality of the Supreme Lord, or submissive to His will. When it is said that the potency has pure consciousness, that means that because the potency and the master of potencies are not different, therefore, like the master of potencies, the potency also has a form of spiritual consciousness, has desires that are at once fulfilled, and is beyond the touch of the three modes. It is not a mistake to say these things. Will and consciousness are qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By itself, the potency does not possess will, but rather it carries out the will of the Supreme. For example, you have power, and by Your will, your potencies act. If you say, ‘the power acted’, then that means that the possessor of the power was actually behind the action. To say that ‘the power acted’ is only to use a figure of speech. In truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has only one potency. When she performs spiritual actions, she is called spiritual potency, and when she performs material actions, she is called the material potency, or maya. The Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) explain: “The potency of the Supreme is manifested in many different ways.” The potency that manifests the three modes is the material potency. She creates and destroys the material universes. Those are her duties. In the Puranas and Tantras this potency is called by many names, such as Visnu-maya, Maha-maya, and Maya. Allegorically she is also called ‘the mother of Brahma, Visnu and Shiva”, ‘the killer of Sumbha and Nisumbha’, and other like names that describe her different activities. As long as he remains deeply enmeshed in material consciousness, the soul is under her power. When he attains pure spiritual knowledge, the soul can understand the nature of his original spiritual form. Then he is freed from the ropes of Maya. Then he is under the power of the spiritual potency. Then he becomes happy. Digambara: Are you under the power of one of these potencies, or are you not? Advaita: Yes. We are also a potency. We are ‘jiva-shakti’, individual souls. When we become free from the ropes of the maya potency, we are in the power of the spiritual potency. Digambara: Then you are also a sakta, a worshipper of the potency. Advaita: Yes. The Vaishnavas are naturally saktas. We are the servants of Sri Radhika, who is the spiritual potency. Under Her patronage we worship and serve Lord Krishna. Who is more of a sakta than we? I don’t see any difference between the saktas and the Vaishnavas. They who do not take shelter of the spiritual potency, but only take shelter of the material potency Maya may be saktas, but they are not Vaishnavas. They are materialists. In the Narada-pancaratra, Goddess Durga explains: “O Krishna, I am Radha, who stays on Your chest during the rasa dance in Vrindavan forest.” Thus from Durga-devi’s words we can understand that the Lord does not have two potencies. There is only one potency, who manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material potency Visnu-maya. When the potency is free from the material modes, she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within the sphere of the material modes, she is called the material potency. *** It is only imperative for GAUDIYA VAISHNAVAS follow and accept the Gosvami's conclusion and that of Advaita,a pure Gaudiya saint. Actually,the gosvamis and the earlier Gaudiya saints were quite clear about these truths. Durga actually exists in Vaikuntha as Yogmaya.She has Her own dvipa just as Sadashiva is residing within Vaikuntha. P.S: Not that i want to prove anything...but it was very funny that digambara had to open his tantra books now and then while advaita went on firing.(lol.)It's all there..in the minds of the mahatmas.

i'm happy for you..it takes a lot to apologise Radhe radhe.

deity worship is un necessary.But if the sadhaka has somehow an attraction to deity and has somehow acquired faith that deity is Sri Krsna Himself,he should follow it without any hesitation.

i meant Ramkrishna,melvin,not SP

seriously,why don't you'll ignore this cheap person ??

The vedic version makes one thing very clear..The Supreme Truth,The primeval cause,the source of everything that be,HAS INTELLIGENCE and thus He is Supremely able to WILL,to DESIRE. Further,since the Supreme Brahm has superexcellent energies,He brings about the creation,maintenanc and destruction of the universe by His mere will,although remaining in one place.This apparent impossibility that 'the intense task of creating the universe without any toil' is further explained by the vedas. The vedas counts 8 qualities of the Supreme Brahm.Two of those qualities are: Satyakaama and satyasankalpa. With Satyasankalpa,The supreme Lord performs all extraordinary tasks without any difficulty.

Sa icchan cakre. The Supreme Primeval Lord had a desire. He smiled. By His mere will,He set Maya into transformation and created millions and millions of brahmandas. Infinite Jeevatmas emanated from His divine self,as though,sparks from a huge fire. The Supreme Godhead,being present in one place,simultaneously took up infinite forms as He entered each and every atom of this mayic creation. ..This is the version of the vedas.

I didn't say he is avtaar.