Bishadi

What do you mean bishadi? Do you feel bija (second person) has not experienced spiritual lol? You may be right. Personally I represent very little, but hopefully reflect some good choice in life. Just the tiniest drop of the spiritual is enough to fill a simple heart with gratitude...for that drop we can hope someday for it (to manifest in the organism). Maybe we all have felt the touch of infinity a little.

Is it not possible that all humans are potentially capable of spiritual experience but often just too busy in the external?

Each human realizing the spiritual dimension would surely be a blessing for humanity.

Rather than just a religious experience (which in many cases seems to divide humanity).

even this little 'i' feels;

there is more than just hope on the horizon; Peace to you!

Meaning how can each person wake up capable of being spiritual without the rituals of faith? posted by bishadi

What indicators can we look for bishadi, to see the presence of spiritual in ourselves and surrounds?How can we tell?

Do you have children?

Do you share and give with no need of the self but for the life to continue?

Good presence

English is not my first language and Veda is extremely complex subject.

Without some basic knowledge of Sanskrit terms it is impossible to grasp the meaning.

Terms such as Brahman, Caitya Purusha , tamas are not purely philosophical. They correspond to particular states of being, even planes of existence which must be experienced first through witnessing consciousness.

Meaning to be responsible each must have grounds of understanding, to even know what they submit (themselves).

Tamas is among other things state of ignorance and inertia generated by identifying one’s consciousness with body.

Perceiveing oneself as body contemplating on gross physical.

Let’s see

In Hinduism and Buddhism, Tamas, or tamo-guna, is the lowest of the three gunas. It is a force which promotes one or more of the following: (1) darkness, (2) death, (3) destruction, (4) ignorance, (5) sloth, (6) resistance.

Where I am going with this is the defining form you are using is conveying that ignorance is normal; an I agree; but that is what knowledge corrects.

For each to maintain the precept that we are not capable of comprehending existence is a selfish precept invoked by ignorant teachers. It is this isolation from existence that creates this selfish approach to experiencing life.

The very reason why people need invasive medicine and treatments is global materialistic consciousness. By losing direct contact with Supreme humanity becomes vulenrable to hostile tamasic forces which first affect subtle physical sheath and then manifests in gross physical as disease.

As well ignorance of health causes the crisis to further perpetuate. Nostradamus was the single greatest contributor to slow and stop the spread of the plague simply by teaching people to keep themselves, their homes and surroundings clean.

But when we speak of quality of life we must first define what life is and what is purpose of life .

For reductionist quality of physical life, life of sense gratification which has no purpose outside of it’s limited material movements is all that matters.

For spiritualist quality of life means quality of consciousness, spiritual evolution of consciousness.

Even if you cure the body what are you going to do with this body , this vehicle? Engage in sense gratficication and accumulation of negative karma which will eventualy produce new disease in new vehicle , new birth , new death as so on .

Meaning if you have that knowledge to comprehend; then isn’t the duty of body and choice to contribute that knowledge to existence?

since the rest of the post is talking about how much better you are than I as well defining me as being less than your experience, when it seems, the material you are suggesting is older than dirt, when today, that material can be observed as children and combined with real knowledge about what that dirt is.

Since each child opens their eyes wondering who’s hand this is, perhaps it is best they comprehend how they choose to best use that hand; and you can go on thinking that hand has no importance nor capable of actually being understood.

Again…. Not my choice!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Gift of Lord Krishna Directly

 

 

 

 

 

"It is my duty to help you always in the matter of understanding Krishna Consciousness and whatever I am trying to bestow upon you all is the gift of Lord Krishna directly -- I am just doing the work of a bearer. There is nothing of my personal contribution and I ask all your mercy so that I may be able to distribute Krishna's message as it is without any deviation. That will make Krishna, myself, and all others eternally happy. It is so nice, sublime and easy to perform."

 

 

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada letter, June 14, 1968)

 

 

sounds like a commitment or choice to do rather than be complacent

Kind of neat to see how man can by choice contribute with no intent of being led by a master, except existence itself.

Kind of rings true with the correct opinion of this thread.

I just can't take it any more - it's just too funny ROFL how a religionist will dodge and weave in the face of unambiguous teachings from the guru Himself. It betrays the secondary motives of such a disciple - the prestige the automatic credential that the ritualism confers - who wants to minimize that? Rather milk it for everything it's worth.

Good job, rebel against the complacent. And never allow a teacher to preach an oppression of the spirit.

Knowledge evolves; either they allow the children to learn and combine knowledge or the old die in the selfish isolation from reality.

If you think these folk are tough, maybe play in Christianity or Judaism; talk about the selfrighteous crowd when it comes to preaching leadership...

Meaning until the student removes the powers from the teacher; they will keep em and the order of belief.

You make some excellent observations here. Science seems to be moving toward research of how an exchange of mass occurs. Previously this has been the field of the mystic and cosmic energy. What is most interesting bishadi is the idea of absolute spiritual commitment, and what role does that play in the scientific view. I feel there is possibility and scope there, for it is what is.

 

I can see it rolling through all knowledge.

 

I also can see your understandings of 'choice' and 'responsibility' in this new paradigm. I appreciate your thoughts in this regard alot.

Skippy....

this 'i' is not very responsive to being appreciated as it is not really 'my' or 'me' as what is to be appreciated; thank the total (existence) and begin answering question is the light of truth.

Lean on the 'me' when you need assistence but 'do' based on your choice; you have the basic foundation; now build bridges and soon no valley will be too deep; all 'true' knowledge will combine, eventually

Please forgive me bishadi, I may misunderstand your comment and wit here, there seems to be a touch of ignorance.

 

A person who experiences a mystic awakening is often labelled psychiatrically with awful stigma for life. Whereas infact that mystical experience or so called 'non-ordinary state' is an integral part of his/her movement toward wholeness. Whether a man has a doctorate in psychiatry has very little to do whether he will integrate or not? Ofcourse unless you have some bias against psychiatry, or the person in questions choice of profession and his/her medium of conveying some truths.

 

I am optimistic that in this 21st century science and spiritual can use similar terminologies. Especially in the realm of psyche and spiritual study. Maybe the realm of mind and spirit is not such a great divide.

The comment was to share; this 'i' may appear to need a doctor but the doctors will not be the ones who finish building the bridges.

Only One pure revelation coming and it began with 'light' and placing into words the comprehension of how light is the life upon mass; is the bridge to bring the comprehension of spirit into the physical understanding of the experience; when the 2 meet in mind; enlightenment is known.

But societies actions of environmental degradation, mass consuming, war and nuclear armament etc are considered sane?

Strange question but let's ask; were you a policy maker? I wasn't; not my choice.

"A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has stated, upaśamāśrayaḿ krodha-lobhādy-avaśī-bhūtam: a bona fide spiritual master cannot be under the control of ordinary anger, greed and lust.'

since this board has little moderation governing the integrity of the individuals.

The post above has been answered as pretty much a story about how a person developes and on the original thread the guy posted it on.

It appears the individual is upset at being held accountable, and not to me, but to him/herself.

The intent of the thread was to see if there were answers that a person could read from many opinions; rather than a single opinion or idea.

meaning; care for others over the self is all that is important.

Here is an excerpt from prominent psychiatrist, Stanislav Grof's, most recent views. I really appreciate this mans perspectives. It is exciting, as a spiritualist, to see modern science pointing to the validity of our personal spiritual practices, as being an essential core of our conscious experience.

 

I truly believe that oneday science and spirit will meet.

in a real sense, the idea that the sciences and spiritual observance will be combined.

That phenomenon of 'thing' interacting is as energy exchanges between mass, they are entangled; a physical reality in terms that can be defined in math.

On the other hand; we can all be rest assured the sciences will not be combined by a psychiatrist.

Maybe someone who should be psychiatrists patient, but not a doc in the field of.

Let me add; when a person comprehends how an exchange of mass works, then they can comprehend in a pure form to apply the mind with absolute spiritual commitment.

SO when the 2 do in fact become apparent and combine then know that foundation will roll through all knowledge.

Need I mention 'light' ?

from the book

'New Perspectives (observations from modern consciousness research) - click here

 

"....To prevent misunderstanding and confusion...it is critical to make a clear distinction between spirituality and religion. Spirituality is based on direct experiences of non-ordinary aspects and dimensions of reality. It does not require a special place or an officially appointed person mediating contact with the divine. The mystics do not need churches or temples. The context, in which they experience the sacred dimensions of reality, including their own divinity, are their bodies and nature. And instead of officiating priests, the mystics need a supportive group of fellow seekers or the guidance of a teacher who is more advanced on the inner journey than they are themselves.

 

Spirituality involves a special kind of relationship between the individual and the cosmos and is, in its essence, a personal and private affair. By comparison, organized religion involves institutionalized group activity that takes place in a designated location, a temple or church, and involves a system of appointed officials who might or might not have had personal experiences of spiritual realities. Onec a religion becomes organized, it often completeley loses the connection with its spiritual source and becomes a secular institution that exploits human spiritual needs without satisfying them.

 

Organized religions tend to create hierarchial systems focusing on the pursuit of power, control, politics, money, possessions, and other secular concerns. Under these circumstances, religious hierarchy as a rule dislikes and discourages direct spiritual expereinces in its memebers, because they foster independence and cannot be effectively controlled...."

Thx.... you hit the nail on the head

Yeah, Hare Krsna movement as we know it in the west seems to be a mix of religion and spirituality. I like the spirit part Ancient Mariner.

 

Once we have a real spiritual encounter, we will know very clearly what is religion and what is spirituality.

 

All talk.....

so once you have that 'encounter'... then you have the ability to speak in the first; otherwise....... we all see what you represent, just fine

I don’t have children but I do have extremely negative experiences with western medicine . Great part of childhood I spent at hospitals due to my mother’s constant concerns and her trust in western medicine. I was misdiagnosed in probably nine out of ten cases.

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Western treatments were in many cases worse then disease itself.

I do not condemn people who put their faith in western medicine in extreme conditions but personaly in last 20 years I avoided western tamasic methods of treatment.

As a matter of fact it's not the method itself as much as the approach.

The rest of the post was quite sad to observe.

With compassion there is a plea for your attention in seeking more knowledge and find how much medicine offers quality improvements to assisting the continuance of life.

Right now in India, monsoon floads will infict enormous disease and death; we can both be sure the people who come to assist, are not relying on faith to assist the people; they will be using educated men and women who contribute their time, energy and compassion; for to provide medical assistance.

For them who wish no assistance, please send your kids out to be picked up and stay and pray all you wish; we'll take care of the children!

.

The Vedas are religious texts dealing with Gods, prayers and procedures for social life and rituals in a primitive society - most of which has been obsolete for a long time. They were not dealing with science and math. They were certainly not dealing with 803.11 protocols or nano-technology as some gentleman seems to think above. They did not deal with gravitation for ffice:smarttags" />Abhay Ashtekar is about to prove by combining relativity theory and quantum mechanics that before this universe was created there was another universe.

In other words, Abhay Ashtekar is trying to translate vedic parameters into modern scientific understanding. But as you see, as soon someone like Abhay Ashtekar is on the way to translate vedic knowledge into modern science, he immediately has a whole gang of "friends", "helping" him to get the job done

It’s a common psychosis and most of religious leadership just can’t realize, the truth of that fact.

You can see it in their words

Esoteric vedanta does not have to teach about metabolism, physics and "Blackberries" because it’s goal is liberation from

material world through withdrawal of the senses

for example:

to read this and simply change the names (to protect the innocent)

then see how this also applies to this thread and what it means

"Almost every sect of Christianity is a perversion of its essence, to

accomodate it to the prejudices of the world."

William Hazlitt, English essayist. The Round Table, "On the Causes of

Methodism" (1817).

 

A quote from 'ksna' thread opening

food for thought

In conclusion: We do not intend to add anything to Srila Prabhupada’s books, or subtract anything, or change anything Srila Prabhupada says, to make his controversial or potentially controversial statements more acceptable to readers or less vulnerable to misuse by ISKCON devotees.

 

We believe that this would be unwise, contrary to our prescribed duties, and potentially disastrous. We also strongly urge whoever our successors may be to preserve Srila Prabhupada’s books intact and reject all proposals, however well intentioned, for softening the impact of his words.

 

Integrity to the words of a teacher appears 'good' but then again these comments above share an isolation away from the compassion of each person, in which to care only for your own and not all, is where the ideals of faith fail existence.

An opinion

This painting is worth a million words

is the name of the painting;

The evolution of knowledge

or maybe;

the progression of Guru; the student takes over!

How does the rhetorical question not define the issue?

Papers are full of inline quotes BTW. This a forum, so there is no 'back of the book' reference section. Also in a devotional setting such as this forum - authority counts.

The question did not convey as such, my opinion.

Then what is the final authority?

Something equal to mankind and final in comprehensive text?

Currently have 5 panels on my screen with access to data on every continent; name the final authority so a student can read without all the contradictions.

My question was rhetorical.

A lead to one possible answer.

Best not to make characterizations.

Basing one's statements about a particular belief system like Gaudiya Vaisnavism, by quoting an authority on the subject is not parroting - it's called supporting with references. If you've ever written a paper that is what is expected.

Such to say; what is life? Then a list of items concerning life should be presented; not and 'so and so said'.......

that is where there is a huge divide of articulation, as 'so and so,' did not know either, otherwise why would anyone ask, they could look it up for themselves

Yes. I could not say it any better.

Hey..... a true statement.

you're correct,

you be 'old school'

and soon

'the young will begin to teach the old'

it's in many of the old prophecies.....

you all left us with kali yuga, and you are experiencing the

'change of the guard.'

But that idea aside, we need to look at the point, the spirit of the statement rather than its technical truth. The Vedas do trump so many materialist theories. All knowledge comes from the Vedas. In fact Veda means knowledge. That is the philosophical principle Prabhupada is applying here.

There is huge truth to this; meaning most 'good' knowledge transcends time.

But since the vedas cannot explain the metobolic processes of living things, then the knowledge needs another chapter.

Not that we stop learning and contributing because many of faith think magic created mankind and all of nature (the universe).

Or simply to think the vedas are the last word, then why are any of us writing?

Why is there one book past the original words?

Why is anyone waiting for another avatar?

If the vedas were perfectly finished, then why are there dozens of various religions from the same literature?

Why do people still wish for world Peace if all the answers can be found in any single religion on this beautiful earth?

Darwin is tricky because to be honest, with integrity, the knowledge will unfold how ignorant we as a species can really be with retaining a religious belief of how we came to be.

How does one determine if a response is angry, especially over the internet?

Obviously if one is making personal remarks about character and spiritual state, then that is not a good sign.

It is best therefore to avoid all personal characterizations. To address issues, statements, without such attacks is always valid, but if a person continues to respond with you are such and such bad character, then ignoring is best IMO.

The real character issue that any can equally observe is integrity. Some may have a little more data to reflect from, but most can see how when someone is in doubt, they abuse their integrity and fib to retain a position of knowing, as if absolute based on an opinion.

Or my favorite on this site is the quoting of another to answer questions.

Almost like a parot; incapable of conversing with mind and reason.

<DD> <DD>We don't want to be asses taking things in a stupid literal way.

 

<DD>

</DD>

can you clarify what the comment was about in a literal way?

are you going to suggest that what Darwin contributed in his writtings are simply to plagerize? Meaning his life was simply to tic off the religious right and take the credit from the vedas in some evil communist plot....?

Please enlighten us all with your insights as the thread has basically shared that SB was not familiar with evolution nor Darwin as many others who have read this thread probably have a little better understanding then last week on these same facts.

you are welcome.

 

this should actually be considered a pretty serious matter, especially to the 'Prabhupada absolutist' crowd, who claim that everything he said and wrote is absolute. problem is that not everything they think he said or wrote are actually his statements.

 

sort of like those Bible thumpers who refuse to acknowledge the extensive editing of that book during the first 4 centuries.

nice to see a real one in the midst

I agree on these summaries; and also recognize how religions can instigate their own abuse; one minute it is absolute, the next, redefining meanings.

All the kids ever want is a straight answer; one pass!

Who will preach KC to all our fellow Muslim brothers in the Islamic countires???

Seems India has brothers in Pakistan.

And what is the difference of these family member? Beliefs.

Try and convert a beliver who is of conviction over compassion and the borders remain.

Maybe combine knowledge with phyical application (the medical field) and people will listen. The neccessity is not on conversion to a sect but of learning amoung many opinions for the compassion within.

Compassion will transcend belief.

 

See something? Say something!

 

For the sake of national security,

The world can see what is happening in India as well on this site you represented to me you speak for 'Hindu et al' .....

maybe a little bad karma?