gHari

I'm afraid if we're going to obliterate the teachings, speculating that nothing actually remains of them, then we must just as easily destroy even the words of the Vedic sages and incarnations. How do you prove any of it is original? I'm sure a clever fellow like you could destroy everyone's faith in Vedic scripture and its God and gods quite easily. Wouldn't that be a feather in your cap! Armed only with the mind, there is no hope. Haven't you ever tried to follow the words you play with?

They do not know what Christ's message is. They have no integrity. Even if they knew, they couldn't understand - just as they can't understand Krsna's message. They will be stuck in their spinning minds for lifetimes, never being able to take the first step, constantly consumed with doubt.

The tattvavadis are the antithesis of mayavadis.

Do we have to be cynical to play?

What a good idea!

The teachings of Jesus are not meant for the jnanis. His words are only for those who can hear them. The jnanis must choose another path. Try the tattvavadis if it is your mind that you worship. They enjoy that sort of thing.

For ISKCON's sake, I do hope this applies to non-ISKCON devotees as well.

It seemed to me that the outside phenomena are serving guru and it is guru who placed this buddhi-yogam in the intelligence of the devotee to see the lessons as illustrated by the environment. Krsna arranged the entire Battle of Kuruksetra just to teach The Lesson. The lessons are all around: "Wake up, My son".

Like being home. No anxieties. Absolute joy and satisfaction. Like a place you could stay forever. Unimaginably pleasant.

Yes, I'm sure the callousness keeps a lot of people away. In business they call it "What have you done for us lately", but here there is no golden parachute, and you leave with no marketable skills. This nonsense wouldn't happen if Srila Prabhupada were in charge.

Of course some will argue that the movement of the branch caused by the crow taking flight resulted in the fruit falling from the tree. Yet others will conclude that was the fright from feeling the fruit dropping from the branch that caused the crow to fly away. I would propose a third possibilty: someone is chopping down the tree.

<center>buddhi-yogam</center> buddhi-yogam — real intelligence; BG 10.10 buddhi-yogam — devotional activities; BG 18.57 buddhi-yogam — real intelligence; CC Adi 1.49 buddhi-mana — my mind and intelligence; CC Antya 11.22 Be a buddhi-man — one who is intelligent; SB 11.26.26

Manna is like buddhi-yogam.

<center>soma</center> soma-pāḥ — drinkers of soma juice; BG 9.20 soma-pāḥ — drinking soma juice; SB 3.32.3 soma-pān — demigods; SB 4.7.56 soma-rājaḥ — the king of the moon planet; SB 4.22.56 soma — of the moon; SB 5.10.17 soma-pīthe — drinking the intoxicant called soma; SB 5.15.12 soma-ādayaḥ — headed by the moon; SB 5.21.11 soma-sutaḥ — the son of the moon; SB 5.22.13 soma-pīthaḥ — drink soma-rasa; SB 5.26.29 soma-pītham — used for drinking the beverage soma; SB 6.9.1 soma-pītham — used for drinking soma-rasa; SB 6.9.5 soma-pāḥ — drinkers of soma-rasa; SB 6.18.66-67 soma — of the moon-god; SB 8.4.17-24 soma-āhutyā — with a share in the soma-yajña; SB 9.3.26 soma-vaṃśe — when the dynasty of the moon-god; SB 9.22.11 soma-sūryayoḥ — of the moon-god and the sun-god; SB 10.1.1 soma-rājam — the kingly; SB 10.84.47 soma — moon; SB 11.14.36-42 soma-sūryayoḥ — of the sun-god and the moon-god; SB 12.2.25 soma — the moon; SB 12.9.8-9 soma-vaṃśasya — of the dynasty of the moon-god; SB 12.12.25-26 soma-giriḥ — Somagiri (the initiating guru); CC Adi 1.57

I keep it in the fridge.

Of course, the data could just show that unhappy people tend to look for another religion, disillusioned with their current one which just doesn't seem to work. That is, were they sad before? What is the cause and what is the effect? If we consider the euphoria associated with long-distance running ... the endorphin rush: you can only achieve that euphoria by giving up habits and replacing them with running. If you don't want to run, then you can't realize the high. If you'd rather lay on the couch and dream of running, then you won't get the rush. You get what you pay for.

And the teachings of Jesus, what are they, raghu? It does not go unnoticed that you run from this question a third time. You don't deserve to hold an opinion. Be careful; your guru will suffer your sins if you ridicule the Holy Spirit, and your bhakti will be in the toilet. Actually it may be there now, since I've seen none from you here. Don't destroy your life with this witch-hunt.

<table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="70%"> </td><td valign="middle" width="30%"> <center><h1>IT'S ALIVE </h1></center> </td></tr></tbody></table>

<img src=http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/attachment.php?attachmentid=1570&stc=1&d=1202051679>

Reading books versus doing books .... doing is better. <center><img src=http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/attachment.php?attachmentid=1570&stc=1&d=1202051679></center>

The Srimad-Bhagavatam glorifies the incarnation of Parasurama: <center> 2.7.22 kSatraM kSayAya vidhinopabhRtaM mahAtmA brahma-dhrug ujjhita-pathaM narakArti-lipsu uddhanty asAv avanikaNTakam ugra-vIryas triH-sapta-kRtva urudhAra-parazvadhena </center> kSatram--the royal order; kSayAya--for the sake of diminishing; vidhinA--by destination; upabhRtam--increased in proportion; mahAtmA--the Lord in the form of the great sage ParazurAma; brahma-dhruk--the ultimate truth in Brahman; ujjhita-patham--those who have given up the path of the Absolute Truth; naraka-Arti-lipsu--desirous to suffer pain in hell; uddhanti--exacts; asau--all those; avanikaNTakam--thorns of the world; ugra-vIryaH--awfully powerful; triH-sapta--thrice seven times; kRtvaH--performed; urudhAra--very sharp; parazvadhena--by the great chopper. When the ruling administrators, who are known as the kSatriyas, turned astray from the path of the Absolute Truth, being desirous to suffer in hell, the Lord, in His incarnation as the sage ParazurAma, uprooted those unwanted kings, who appeared as the thorns of the earth. Thus He thrice seven times uprooted the kSatriyas with His keenly sharpened chopper. <center> 9.15.14 yam Ahur vAsudevAMzaM haihayAnAM kulAntakam triH-sapta-kRtvo ya imAM cakre niHkSatriyAM mahIm </center> yam--whom (ParazurAma); AhuH--all the learned scholars say; vAsudeva-aMzam--an incarnation of VAsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; haihayAnAm--of the Haihayas; kula-antakam--the annihilator of the dynasty; triH-sapta-kRtvaH--twenty-one times; yaH--who (ParazurAma); imAm--this; cakre--made; niHkSatriyAm--devoid of kSatriyas; mahIm--the earth. Learned scholars accept this ParazurAma as the celebrated incarnation of VAsudeva who annihilated the dynasty of KArtavIrya. ParazurAma killed all the kSatriyas on earth twenty-one times. <center> 9.15.15 dRptaM kSatraM bhuvo bhAram abrahmaNyam anInazat rajas-tamo-vRtam ahan phalguny api kRte 'Mhasi </center> dRptam--very proud; kSatram--the kSatriyas, the ruling class; bhuvaH--of the earth; bhAram--burden; abrahmaNyam--sinful, not caring for the religious principles enunciated by the brAhmaNas; anInazat--drove away or annihilated; rajaH-tamaH--by the qualities of passion and ignorance; vRtam--covered; ahan--he killed; phalguni--not very great; api--although; kRte--had been committed; aMhasi--an offense. When the royal dynasty, being excessively proud because of the material modes of passion and ignorance, became irreligious and ceased to care for the laws enacted by the brAhmaNas, ParazurAma killed them. Although their offense was not very severe, he killed them to lessen the burden of the world. <center> 9.15.16 kiM tad aMho bhagavato rAjanyair ajitAtmabhiH kRtaM yena kulaM naSTaM kSatriyANAm abhIkSNazaH </center> zrI-rAjA uvAca--MahArAja ParIkSit inquired; kim--what; tat aMhaH--that offense; bhagavataH--unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; rAjanyaiH--by the royal family; ajita-AtmabhiH--who could not control their senses and thus were degraded; kRtam--which had been done; yena--by which; kulam--the dynasty; naSTam--was annihilated; kSatriyANAm--of the royal family; abhIkSNazaH--again and again. King ParIkSit inquired from Sukadeva GosvAmI: What was the offense that the kSatriyas who could not control their senses committed before Lord ParazurAma, the incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for which the Lord annihilated the kSatriya dynasty again and again? <center> 9.15.30 acodayad dhasti-rathAzva-pattibhir gadAsi-bANarSTi-zataghni-zaktibhiH akSauhiNIH sapta-dazAtibhISaNAs tA rAma eko bhagavAn asUdayat </center> acodayat--he sent for fighting; hasti--with elephants; ratha--with chariots; azva--with horses; pattibhiH--and with infantry; gadA--with clubs; asi--with swords; bANa--with arrows; RSTi--with the weapons called RSTis; zataghni--with weapons called zataghnis; zaktibhiH--with weapons called zaktis; akSauhiNIH--whole groups of akSauhiNIs, military phalanx consisting of 21,870 chariots and elephants, 109,350 infantry soldiers and 65,610 horses; sapta-daza--seventeen; ati-bhISaNAH--very fierce; tAH--all of them; rAmaH--Lord ParazurAma; ekaH--alone; bhagavAn--the Supreme Personality of Godhead; asUdayat--killed. Upon seeing ParazurAma, KArtavIryArjuna immediately feared him and sent many elephants, chariots, horses and infantry soldiers equipped with clubs, swords, arrows, RSTis, zataghnis, zaktis, and many similar weapons to fight against him. KArtavIryArjuna sent seventeen full akSauhiNIs of soldiers to check ParazurAma. But Lord ParazurAma alone killed all of them. <center> 9.15.31 yato yato 'sau praharat-parazvadho mano-'nilaujAH para-cakra-sUdanaH tatas tataz chinna-bhujoru-kandharA nipetur urvyAM hata-sUta-vAhanAH </center> yataH--wherever; yataH--wherever; asau--Lord ParazurAma; praharat--slashing; parazvadhaH--being expert in using his weapon, the parazu, or chopper; manaH--like the mind; anila--like the wind; ojAH--being forceful; para-cakra--of the enemies' military strength; sUdanaH--killer; tataH--there; tataH--and there; chinna--scattered and cut off; bhuja--arms; Uru--legs; kandharAH--shoulders; nipetuH--fell down; urvyAm--on the ground; hata--killed; sUta--chariot drivers; vAhanAH--carrier horses and elephants. Lord ParazurAma, being expert in killing the military strength of the enemy, worked with the speed of the mind and the wind, slicing his enemies with his chopper [parazu]. Wherever he went, the enemies fell, their legs, arms and shoulders being severed, their chariot drivers killed, and their carriers, the elephants and horses all annihilated. <center> 9.15.32 dRSTvA sva-sainyaM rudhiraugha-kardame raNAjire rAma-kuThAra-sAyakaiH vivRkNa-varma-dhvaja-cApa-vigrahaM nipAtitaM haihaya Apatad ruSA </center> dRSTvA--by seeing; sva-sainyam--his own soldiers; rudhira-ogha-kardame--which had become muddy due to the flow of blood; raNa-ajire--on the battlefield; rAma-kuThAra--by the axe of Lord ParazurAma; sAyakaiH--and by the arrows; vivRkNa--scattered; varma--the shields; dhvaja--the flags; cApa--bows; vigraham--the bodies; nipAtitam--fallen; haihayaH--KArtavIryArjuna; Apatat--forcefully came there; ruSA--being very angry. By manipulating his axe and arrows, Lord ParazurAma cut to pieces the shields, flags, bows and bodies of KArtavIryArjuna's soldiers, who fell on the battlefield, muddying the ground with their blood. Seeing these reverses, KArtavIryArjuna, infuriated, rushed to the battlefield. <center> 9.16.17 gatvA mAhiSmatIM rAmo brahma-ghna-vihata-zriyam teSAM sa zIrSabhI rAjan madhye cakre mahA-girim </center> gatvA--going; mAhiSmatIm--to the place known as MAhiSmatI; rAmaH--Lord ParazurAma; brahma-ghna--because of the killing of a brAhmaNa; vihata-zriyam--doomed, bereft of all opulences; teSAm--of all of them (the sons of KArtavIryArjuna and the other kSatriya inhabitants); saH--he, Lord ParazurAma; zIrSabhiH--by the heads cut off from their bodies; rAjan--O MahArAja ParIkSit; madhye--within the jurisdiction of MAhiSmatI; cakre--made; mahA-girim--a great mountain. O King, Lord ParazurAma then went to MAhiSmatI, which was already doomed by the sinful killing of a brAhmaNa. In the midst of that city he made a mountain of heads, severed from the bodies of the sons of KArtavIryArjuna. <center> 9.18-19 tad-raktena nadIM ghorAm abrahmaNya-bhayAvahAm hetuM kRtvA pitR-vadhaM kSatre 'maGgala-kAriNi triH-sapta-kRtvaH pRthivIM kRtvA niHkSatriyAM prabhuH samanta-paJcake cakre zoNitodAn hradAn nava </center> tat-raktena--by the blood of the sons of KArtavIryArjuna; nadIm--a river; ghorAm--fierce; abrahmaNya-bhaya-AvahAm--causing fear to the kings who had no respect for brahminical culture; hetum--cause; kRtvA--accepting; pitR-vadham--the killing of his father; kSatre--when the whole royal class; amaGgala-kAriNi--was acting very inauspiciously; triH-sapta-kRtvaH--twenty-one times; pRthivIm--the entire world; kRtvA--making; niHkSatriyAm--without a kSatriya dynasty; prabhuH--the Supreme Lord, ParazurAma; samanta-paJcake--at the place known as Samanta-paJcaka; cakre--he made; zoNita-udAn--filled with blood instead of water; hradAn--lakes; nava--nine. With the blood of the bodies of these sons, Lord ParazurAma created a ghastly river, which brought great fear to the kings who had no respect for brahminical culture. Because the kSatriyas, the men of power in government, were performing sinful activities, Lord ParazurAma, on the plea of retaliating for the murder of his father, rid all the kSatriyas from the face of the earth twenty-one times. Indeed, in the place known as Samanta-paJcaka he created nine lakes filled with their blood. <center> 9.16.26 Aste 'dyApi mahendrAdrau nyasta-daNDaH prazAnta-dhIH upagIyamAna-caritaH siddha-gandharva-cAraNaiH </center> Aste--is still existing; adya api--even now; mahendra-adrau--in the hilly country known as Mahendra; nyasta-daNDaH--having given up the weapons of a kSatriya (the bow, arrows and axe); prazAnta--now fully satisfied as a brAhmaNa; dhIH--in such intelligence; upagIyamAna-caritaH--being worshiped and adored for his exalted character and activities; siddha-gandharva-cAraNaiH--by such celestial persons as the inhabitants of Gandharvaloka, Siddhaloka and CAraNaloka. Lord ParazurAma still lives as an intelligent brAhmaNa in the mountainous country known as Mahendra. Completely satisfied, having given up all the weapons of a kSatriya, he is always worshiped, adored and offered prayers for his exalted character and activities by such celestial beings as the Siddhas, CAraNas and Gandharvas. <center> 9.16.27 evaM bhRguSu vizvAtmA bhagavAn harir IzvaraH avatIrya paraM bhAraM bhuvo 'han bahuzo nRpAn </center> evam--in this way; bhRguSu--in the dynasty of BhRgu; vizva-AtmA--the soul of the universe, the Supersoul; bhagavAn--the Supreme Personality of Godhead; hariH--the Lord; IzvaraH--the supreme controller; avatIrya--appearing as an incarnation; param--great; bhAram--the burden; bhuvaH--of the world; ahan--killed; bahuzaH--many times; nRpAn--kings. In this way the supreme soul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Lord and the supreme controller, descended as an incarnation in the BhRgu dynasty and released the universe from the burden of undesirable kings by killing them many times. <center></center>

Of course one should always respect the demigods and one should pray to Ganesh, asking that he remove the obstacles that hinder our devotion to Bhagavan Sri Krsna. Lord Krishna teaches about proper demigod worship in His Bhagavad-gita: http://vedabase.net/bg/7/20/en http://vedabase.net/bg/7/21/en http://vedabase.net/bg/7/22/en http://vedabase.net/bg/7/23/en http://vedabase.net/bg/9/23/en http://vedabase.net/bg/9/25/en Guru Bhaktivedanta Swami wrote: In The Nectar of Devotion SrIla PrabhupAda writes: One should begin the worship of the demigod Ganapati, who drives away all impediments in the execution of devotional service. In the Brahma-saMhitA it is stated that Ganapati worships the lotus feet of Lord NRsiMhadeva and in that way has become auspicious for the devotees in clearing out all impediments. Therefore, all devotees should worship Ganapati. But balance that reference against this letter to SivAnanda DAsa (August 25, 1971): So far worshiping Ganesa is concerned, that is not necessary. Not that it should be done on a regular basis. If you like you can pray to Ganapati for removing all impediments on the path of Krishna Consciousness. That you can do if you like. And finally, consider this letter, sent to "My dear Sons" in Evanston, Illinois, on December 28, 1974. (SrIla PrabhupAda sent nearly identical messages to several other devotees.) I do not encourage you to worship this demigod, Ganesa. It is not required, it is not necessary. Simply worship KRSNa. Perform nice devotional service to KRSNa. Then your lives will certainly become perfect. Of course if one has got some sentiment for achieving the blessings of Ganesa for accumulating large sums of money to serve KRSNa, then he may perform this Ganesa worship, privately, not making a public show.

Yes, it's quite amazing that science could be so close about things so long ago.

<table class="EC_MsoNormalTable" style="margin-left: 7.5pt; width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in; width: 38%;" valign="top" width="38%"> @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in; width: 61%;" valign="top" width="61%"> @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you spend the majority of your time in a 10X10 cell @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you spend the majority of your time in an 6X6 cubicle /office @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get three meals a day fully paid for @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get a break for one meal and you have to pay for it @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get time off for good behavior </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get more work for good behavior </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> @ PRISON the guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> @ WORK you must often carry a security card and open all the doors for yourself @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you can watch TV and play games @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you could get fired for watching TV and playing games @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get your own toilet @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you have to share the toilet with some people who urinate on the seat @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> they allow your family and friends to visit @ PRISON </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you aren't even supposed to speak to your family @ WORK </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> all expenses are paid by the taxpayers with no work required </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> you get to pay all your expenses to go to work, and they deduct taxes from your salary to pay for prisoners </td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"></td></tr> <tr> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> @ PRISON you must deal with sadistic a warden </td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt 0in;" valign="top"> @ WORK they are called managers </td></tr></tbody></table>

Of course, ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they say. But surely there are degrees of karmas that will need to be administered to correct the faulty heart, and sometimes the fault is not even known by us. But it's just like anything: we put our hand in a flame - it hurts, but that's a good thing; otherwise we'd leave it there. We didn't know it was wrong, but we still got burned anyway. As far as who is the authority, ultimately it is Sri Krsna - even if the pain from the flame is caused by His appointed demigod administrator. Then there is the scenario when you say "Howdy" to someone and they think you're putting them down - some kind of cowboy slur or something! I don't think the Vedas cover them folks; unless it's one of those thorazine tamo guna issues. Maybe I'll learn to keep my big fat mouth shut ... but we all doubt that.