gHari

I was disinherited at the last moment because I wasn't around. I was working in Bogota Colombia. My brother got it all, and then he died prematurely a year later. Even when it was all added up, she was still unable to get any good karma out of her position. Poor wretch. My cousin was a victim of the deprogrammers. That part of the family didn't know I had been following a Vedic life for many years. Later she smiled when she saw that I wore neck beads. I don't think her Police Chief father even knows to this day who I am. Only my son knows. Bless his heart. I told my mother that if they tried to deprogram me I would do a thousand times to the deprogrammers what they had done to me. If they kidnapped me for three days, I would kidnap them for 3,000 days. If they tied me to a chair for a day, I would tie them up for a thousand days. They would experience a thousand times the pain. She knew I was as strong as an ox, and I meant what I said. I could and would do it. I would pretend to be converted into a rubber-ducky, then bang, turn the tables upside down. I would send the fear of God into all heartless deprogrammers. I've never been into violence, but maybe I could have done the dirty deed, dirt cheap.

That means the universes are 155 trillion years old. Put that in your super-computer simulation.

From the excerpt of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is (by A.C. Bhaktivedanta) from the ancient eternal Vedas that follows my summary below, some figures may be important in resolving the riddle of the life forms found to have existed here in past years: Each material cosmos is manifest for 311.04 trillion earth years. Life is manifest in the universe for 4.32 billion years, then for 4.32 billion years no life is manifest, then again for 4.32 billion years life is manifest and so on. This continues for 36,000 cycles before the cosmic manifestation is wound up and later a completely new one is created. Which cycle are we in now? Good question. I don't know if anyone has been able to deduce that. That will date the material cosmos. We do, however, know where in this cycle we find ourselves. This kalpa (day of Brahma) began 2.0 billion years ago. This means that life was here 2.0 billion years ago, and before that there was no life for 4.32 billion years. Based on this information we should expect to see distinct traces of major change every 4.32 billion years. There are also periodic phases of partial dissolution and partial creation throughout the manifestation of the cosmos. So, we may also even see phases starting 3.89 million years ago and prior to that every 4.32 million years.Another interesting note found in the Vedas, but not quoted here, is that the average lifespan of a human varies significantly in the various ages. In the current Age of Kali, life is 100 years, in Dvapara it is 1,000 years, in Treta it is 10,000 years and in the Satya Age it is 100,000 years. [bhagavad-gita As It Is (8:17-19) by BBT]: <BLOCKQUOTE> 'The duration of the material universe is limited. It is manifested in cycles of kalpas. A kalpa is a day of Brahma, and one day of Brahma consists of a thousand cycles of four yugas, or ages: Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali. The cycle of Satya is characterized by virtue, wisdom and religion, there being practically no ignorance and vice, and the yuga lasts 1,728,000 years. In the Treta-yuga vice is introduced, and this yuga lasts 1,296,000 years. In the Dvapara-yuga there is an even greater decline in virtue and religion, vice increasing, and this yuga lasts 864,000 years. And finally in Kali-yuga (the yuga we have now been experiencing over the past 5,000 years) there is an abundance of strife, ignorance, irreligion and vice, true virtue being practically nonexistent, and this yuga lasts 432,000 years. In Kali-yuga vice increases to such a point that at the termination of the yuga the Supreme Lord Himself appears as the Kalki avatara, vanquishes the demons, saves His devotees, and commences another Satya-yuga. Then the process is set rolling again. These four yugas, rotating a thousand times, comprise one day of Brahma, and the same number comprise one night. Brahma lives one hundred of such years and then dies. These hundred years by earth calculations total to 311 trillion and 40 billion earth years. By these calculations the life of Brahma seems fantastic and interminable, but from the viewpoint of eternity it is as brief as a lightning flash. In the Causal Ocean there are innumerable Brahmas rising and disappearing like bubbles in the Atlantic. Brahma and his creation are all part of the material universe, and therefore they are in constant flux. In the material universe not even Brahma is free from the process of birth, old age, disease and death. Brahma, however, is directly engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord in the management of this universe--therefore he at once attains liberation. Elevated sannyasis are promoted to Brahma's particular planet, Brahmaloka, which is the highest planet in the material universe and which survives all the heavenly planets in the upper strata of the planetary system, but in due course Brahma and all the inhabitants of Brahmaloka are subject to death, according to the law of material nature. At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they are merged into the unmanifest again. Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly annihilated. The less intelligent, who try to remain within this material world, may be elevated to higher planets and then again must come down to this planet earth. During the daytime of Brahma they can exhibit their activities on higher and lower planets within this material world, but at the coming of Brahma's night they are all annihilated. In the day they receive various bodies for material activities, and at night they no longer have bodies but remain compact in the body of Visnu. Then again they are manifest at the arrival of Brahma's day. Bhutva bhutva praliyate: during the day they become manifest, and at night they are annihilated again. Ultimately, when Brahma's life is finished, they are all annihilated and remain unmanifest for millions and millions of years. And when Brahma is born again in another millennium they are again manifest. In this way they are captivated by the spell of the material world.'</BLOCKQUOTE>

You rabid or chantin', dude?

From an early essay from Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta: The symptoms of Kali-yuga are vividly described in another chapter of BhAgavatam (Canto 12 Chapter 2) [s.B. 12.2.1]. It is said there that money will be the pivot of all activities in the Kali-yuga. It is money only which shall always and alone classify the different orders of society without any reference to the quality of birth or work and it is money only which will decide the propriety of one's claim in the matter of justice, freedom and equality. Personal attractiveness will decide the question of conjugal life between husband and wife and the process of cheating each other will be the crux of business transactions. Sexuality will be considered as the standard of men's or women's superiority and a mere piece of thread on the body will mark the sign of one's belonging in higher three orders of society. Simply by a change of garb i.e. from a white garment to the red and holding a rod as a mark of renunciation, will transfer anybody to the renounced order of life. One's inability to pay sufficiently will deprive one of receiving justice in the court and anyone who shall have the audacity to be an egoist, shall be considered as the most learned fellow. To become stricken with poverty will be considered as one's being dishonest and pride and vanity will be the standard of honesty. Marriage will be validated by mere acceptance of an agreement and the simple act of washing one's body will serve all purposes of dressing. Holy places of sacred water situated far off from one's home, will be considered as the place of pilgrimage; keeping long hairs on the head will be misunderstood as increasing the lustre of one's personal beauty. Self-realization will be identified with the mere filling of one's belly with foodstuff; truth will be realised by impertinence of behavior; ability will be measured by the process of maintaining one's family well, and religiosity will be practised for the sake of reputation. When the whole atmosphere will be surcharged with the abovementioned symptoms of Kali-yuga--whoever amongst the brAhmaNas, kSatriyas, vaizyas or zUdras will be powerful, shall capture the reins of government. Such governmental administrators will naturally be unkind, selfish, covetous and expert in exploiting poor citizens by plundering their money and women. In such conditions of life the citizens will fly from one place to another as displaced refugees and being overpowered by constant visits of famine, epidemic diseases and overburdened by state taxes, will begin to eat grass, roots, meats, seeds, honey and unknown fruits to the risk of life. Due to scarcity of rains in the field they will gradually disappear from the surface of the earth. The population in the Kali-yuga will be overtroubled by communal strife, hunger, thirst, diseases, winter, summer, rains and unparalleled anxiety for everything. The living bodies will gradually diminish in stature, the spiritual division of social orders such as four castes or four Azramas will be overcrowded only by the faithless unbelievers and they will lose all faith in the Vedic way of spiritual advancement. The infidel ruler will turn to one to become plunderer and the people in general will be infected unnecessarily with the habit of stealing, dishonesty, violence and similar rabid acts. There will remain no other caste except the zUdras, the cow being reduced to the stature of goat, the hermitages and monasteries being coverted into ordinary house, friendship being maintained only in relation with sexuality, medicinal herbs being impotent in efficacy like grass, big trees being shortened like the saplings, monsoon being devoid of rains and full of lightning and the general population being forced to labour like the ass, SrI KRSNa the Personality of Godhead will appear to reclaim the faithful and vanquish the faithless. The life of Kali-yuga is estimated to the extent of four lakhs and thirty-two thousands of years beginning from the time of King ParIkSit i.e. after the battle of KurukSetra. As such it will take long long years before the advent of Kalki AvatAra at the end of the Kali-yuga. But the symptoms of Kali-yuga are already in vogue and the state of affairs will gradually deteriorate from bad to worse as it is stated in the BhAgavata PurANa in the most unambiguous term. The affairs will degrade to such an extent that the people in general will look like the Satan of the first magnitude being perturbed by anxieties in respect of state taxes, want of sufficient fooding, clothing, drinking, sleeping, bathing and sexuality. Addicted to unrestricted sexual pleasures only and act of filling the belly with foodstuff not fit for human consumption, low minded debauches will not scruple even to refuse maintaining old father helpless children and wife married from respectable family. The people of Kali-yuga will not worship the Almighty Godhead who is worshiped even by BrahmA and Siva. Sukadeva GosvAmI the enlightened professor of BhAgavatam said to King ParIkSit that in spite of all the abovementioned deformities of the Kali-yuga, there is one most valuable source of transcendental realization in this age. The asset is that in the Kali-yuga one can transcend all the above troubles and reach to the supreme goal of life simply by chanting process of the transcendental holy name of KRSNa. That is a special prerogative chance for this age.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura responded to these questions this way: Q: -- With Vaishnavism some may be personally benefited; but what benefit does the world derive from it? A: -- That is not the true position; it may be applicable for archana or ritual worship, and not to those who perform kirtana or recite the glories of God. The ritual worshipper does his rituals for his own personal good; but a reciter does service to the world, nay to all the creatures of the universe, to all beasts and birds, to men and gods, even to trees, creepers and rocks, too; that service is of the highest type. Q: -- I do not find any liking of men for this. A: -- It is meaningless if we expect many persons to come for it. The number of post-graduates is very limited. Lord Krishna has said,^[14] "Among thousands of men, only one or a few endeavour for accomplishment in self-realisation and of these, too, even though accomplished, only one or so may have an insight into My nature." Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has dilated on it citing a Bhagavata Shloka: ^[15] "Even among crores of the accomplished and liberated even a single devotee of Lord Narayana is rare." Craftiness is the main thing in the world. Q: -- How many people are there who know of Vaishnavism? A: -- How many post-graduates are being turned out? How many Newtons have been born? Is it a wise principle to give up the culture of science because many Prof. J.C. Boses are not being produced? Q: -- By what means can devotion to Krishna grow? A: -- Devotion to the Supreme Lord Krishna is generated when one listens to the accounts of His Glories, etc., attentively with a serving mood from such guileless devotees of God as have nothing to do except incessantly chanting these accounts. ^[16] He is Vishnu Who is sustaining the entire universe with the function in which the sattva is the chief element. As He has been making the world chetana or alive to the concerns of Krishna He is known as Krishna Chaitanya. It is for generating chaitanya (alive-ness) in jivas that were without it that He adopted Sannyasa. But yet we have got chaitanya (i.e., been brought to sense). It is not the virtue of pure chaitanya to make other attempts than that of motiveless service. In the function of shuddha (pure) chetana there is no service to to [sic] be done to anartha (which is not the true artha or necessary, i.e. God); there is only the service to Artha. The Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, Shudras, etc., are busy in thinking about the external things in nature; the knowers of Brahman (i.e. the true Brahmanas) have no such engagement; only service to Hari is their duty. And the Kshatriyas, Vaisyas, etc., should also make all endeavours in favour of that service of those Brahmajnas. It is the only duty of jivas to be engaged in the service of God.

<center>VyAsa-pUjA Offering to His Divine Grace SrIla BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI GosvAmI MahArAja, 1961 by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami PrabhupAda. </center> VAISISTYASTAKAM First Vaisistya 1. On that day, in pain of separation., oh Lord, I was grief stricken, Unable to tolerate being apart from my spiritual master. 2. On today's auspicious occasion, to offer you worship, I have come With this offering, remembering your lotus feet. 3. MahAprabhu's principal conclusion is that renunciation is prime; Not only that, but it is to be distributed to everyone. 4. The neophytes have no ability to make any solution, But you are a mahA-bhAgavata and you have given us direction. 5. Bewildered by ignorance, what kind of renouncers can they be? They are simply false renouncers, giving up externally. 6. Real renunciation comes from transcendental feelings. Without such feelings, a renouncer is known simply as ‘show-bottle'. 7. But there is another show-bottle, with preaching as its purpose: The Lord's sannyAsa, which is the defeat of the impersonalists. 8. Lord Caitanya's teachings are beyond varNAzrama-dharma. They are BhAgavata-dharma and destroy all cheating processes of religion. 9. Performing dry renunciation, preaching will not be successful; ‘Yukta-vairagya' is the essence of all Caitanya philosophy. 10. "The sannyAsa I have given you" is for preaching in devotion. The atheistic sense enjoyers are bewildered in understanding. Second Vaisistya 11. The sannyAsIs go and stay in the mountain caves, But you, master, keep your sannyAsIs in marble mansions. 12. To see a sense enjoyer's face is just like drinking poison, But you, master, are giving your darzana here and far away in foreign lands. 13. Mlecchas and yavanas are not allowed to enter Hindu temples, But you, master, make them the chairman and sit them in the assembly. 14. To cross the ocean is not allowed for Hindus, But you send your devotees across the ocean. 15. In Kali-yuga's cities the guru's instructions are "forbidden". But you remain there anyway with your special purpose in mind. 16. The devotees want to go to some lonely place to perform their bhajan alone, But you don't accept this in your judgement. 17. Where there is an increase in the measurement of people, There your preaching work is to be seen. 18. You want to make a student hostel in London, and You explain it must be nicely arranged. 19. In the land of barbarians, a student hostel for preaching ‘Hari Katha'! Who can understand all these things? 20. To mitigate all these contradictory ideas is not the trifling Act of an inexpert and inexperienced person. Third Vaisistya 21. If everyone sat down together and carefully considered, Then what nice preaching there could be. 22. After all, that is Prabhupada's command--for all to join together To do this preaching work, merged in your instructions. 23. If you simply imitate, there will be the opposite result, For as long as you try like that, there will be failure. 24. Now all of you are returning here on his order to worship him on his VyAsa-pUjA day-- All together you are engaged in His worship. 25. But a festival of flowers and fruits is not the real worship: One who serves the guru's message really worships him. 26. The service of the message is the real transcendental vibration. Don't be falsely proud, brother; come back to that. 27. KalidAsa Nag, that Master Masay, One day said in the public assembly, 28. That Kali-yuga's mission was killing the whole world And Lord Caitanya's message is locked in a cage. 29. Oh shame! Brother, aren't you at all embarrassed Behaving like businessmen to increase your followers? 30. Our master has said to preach; Let the neophytes go in the temples to do nothing but ring bells. Fourth Vaisistya 31. All these are not our master's preaching methods; These are the things done by the caste goswamis. 32. But just take a look at the miserable condition that's arisen: Everyone has become a sense enjoyer and has abandoned preaching. 33. Now the temple doors also are starting to be locked. Go and preach this BhAgavata-dharma; don't delay any longer. 34. Within this Earth there is another Earth Whose sound is the unequalled penetrating force. 35. (There is a Bengali proverb) "The mullah runs just as far as the mosque" (and no further), But an end to this false preaching today! 36. Up to the borders of the seas, all over the earth., pierce the walls of the universe; All assembled together preach the transcendental vibration. 37. Then our master's worship will be in proper order. Today make your firm promise; give up your political play. 38. On this very day, coming together, make your comment; The five of you together, and decide what must be done. 39. You have become renouncers, my brothers, so renounce everything. But if you renounce the instruction of the spiritual master, what kind of renunciation is that? 40. One who renounces the bona-fide spiritual master, or one who tries to enjoy at the expense of his spiritual master, are both useless. First become the servant of your spiritual master, then you will be able to understand these conclusions. Fifth Vaisistya 41. Because there is only one God, if his wealth increases, A saintly person renounces all such material desires for profit, adoration and prestige. 42. Your gold, my brother, is the source of sense enjoyment. Prabhupada has made this meaningful statement. 43. Give up your riches for preaching: Sit down together and make some special consideration. 44. The Supreme Lord says Himself that, "Everything is Mine alone". 45. Prabhupada gave this final instruction. Take care: do this in all respects, completely. 46. Otherwise all your efforts will simply go to waste. Oh saintly ones, beware: afterwards you will repent. 47. Is it really such a difficult task to come together like this? And why does so much have to be said to you? 48. Give up your stubbornness, act for the welfare of others: There is no time to waste! All my brothers, come: this is the most auspicious time to unite. Sixth Vaisistya 49. When will it come to pass that in every room a temple will be established, In every corner of the world. 50. That the high court judge will be a GauDIya VaiSNava, tilaka displayed on his forehead, the glory of all; 51. That a VaiSNava winning votes will be the president of the land, And everywhere this preaching will be extended? 52. The demons loot and plunder the Lord's wealth, While the hapless populace cries, "Alas, alas!" 53. The demons make their plans to cheat the common people, Selling whole-wheat flower at 32 rupees a mound. 54. Opening so many factories, will they fill the people's bellies? Out of hunger, the people will be forced to eat grass and mango pits. 55. A two-paisa thread tied around his neck and a man says he is a brAhmaNa. Just wearing saffron cloth, and a man calls himself a sannyAsI. 56. The householders beg from the sannyAsIs, and the sannyAsIs Have crores of rupees in the bank. 57. Every day the influence of Kali-yuga increases, And the poor souls, being oppressed by the age of Kali, cry in agony. 58. Every day ten thousand cows are slaughtered, And the expert leaders eat untouchable foodstuffs. 59. Men of mudlike intelligence increase day by day, And a husband and wife can dissolve their relationship simply by a word. 60. Everyone has become a witch by the influence of the age. Everyone is unhappy due to the absence of the devotees' mercy. Seventh Vaisistya 61. The VaiSNavas are famous for being sympathetic towards others' suffering, And that fame will be increased by mature preaching. 62. If eternally pure devotional service to Krishna is awakened in every one, Kali will flee of his own accord, crying "Ha! Ha!" 63. MahAprabhu's message is praninam upakaraya Act for the welfare of others. This is the storehouse of happiness both now and after death. 64. So much work has fallen into your hands: Everyone should join together and do something about it. 65. VAsudeva-vipra paid his obeisances to the Lord and said, "Please deliver all the living beings." 66. "Give all their sins to me, who am most fallen, And relinquish all the suffering of the unhappy souls." 67. He was the best VaiSNava, para-duhkha-dukhi, He found no happiness in gratifying his senses. 68. What kind of compassion can the non-devotee show? He simply commits offences with his daridra-nArAyaNa philosophy. 69. The VaiSNava's mercy is scientific. Without the mercy of the Vaisnava, The world is simply insurmountable Maya. 70. If there were a kingdom of ViSNu and VaiSNavas on earth, Then everyone would be happy, say the saintly persons and sages. Eighth Vaisistya 71. Why do people cry for rAma-rAjya? The only cause of such a rAma-rAjya would be a God-centered kingdom. 72. KRSNa sat YudhiSThira on the King's throne And the whole world became full of wealth and fortune as a result of the good qualities of the VaiSNavas. 73. The rivers, streams, trees, fields and hills were all producing abundantly: And the cows were so full of milk that they floated in the abundance. 74. The birds, bcasts and animals were all free of envy: In the VaiSNava kingdom there is perfect saMsAra. 75. The whole world in ecstasy would sing the glories of Hari. Seeing this, the VaiSNavas' heart danced in ecstasy. 76. The use of things without a touch of kRSNa-bhakti Has filled the world with saMsAra. 77. What is more, everyone is searching for peace, Fulfill that desire by your preaching. 78. On this very day, VyAsa-pUjA, get down to business: By your preaching deliver the fallen jIvas. 79. Oh, SrIla PrabhupAda! Show compassion today: This time show real mercy, for you are beyond the illusion of this material world. 80. Whatever independence we have, let it be discarded. The most fallen "Abhay" makes this humble offering today.

Perhaps Krsna wants to leave him right where he is.

Someone is always here with us. The others sit in the same room but another dimension.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya 22.107: <center> nitya-siddha kRSNa-prema ‘sAdhya' kabhu naya zravaNAdi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya </center> nitya-siddha--eternally established; kRSNa-prema--love of KRSNa; sAdhya--to be gained; kabhu--at any time; naya--not; zravaNa-Adi--by hearing, etc.; zuddha--purified; citte--in the heart; karaye udaya--awakens. "Pure love for KRSNa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. Lecture SB 1.5.25: PrabhupAda: So many. There are different terms. So this is the process. We are eternally related with KRSNa, nitya-siddha kRSNa-bhakti, and we're eternally very affectionate and obedient servant of KRSNa. That is our position. Somehow or other, it is covered. So that garbage that's covering has to be moved. Therefore Caitanya MahAprabhu said, ceto-darpaNa-mArjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This is the process of cleansing the mirror of the heart. Mirror, when it is covered by dust you cannot see your face nicely. But as soon as it is nicely brushed and cleansed, you see exactly what you are. Similarly, this KRSNa consciousness movement means cleansing the heart of all the dirty things that is accumulated life after life. It is not an artificial thing, we are learning to become devotee of KRSNa. We are already devotee of KRSNa, but we have forgotten, or the consciousness is covered. Now, by this process, devotional process, especially by kIrtana, by chanting, glorifying the holy name of the Lord, the cleansing process is accelerated. Very soon it takes place. Lecture BG 4.21: When one becomes yogi.... Our real purpose of life is to become yogi. Yogi means to reestablish our connection, our lost connection, with God. At the present moment, in our material condition, we have forgotten our relationship, our eternal relationship with KRSNa, or God. nitya-siddha kRSNa-bhakti sAdhya kabhu naya zravaNAdi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya The kRSNa-bhakti, our love for KRSNa, is there eternally. But on account of our contamination with this material world, we have forgotten our relationship. Just like a madman, he forgets his relationship with the family. He loiters in the street. He eats anywhere and everywhere and all rubbish things. Although he may have a very rich father, well-to-do family, but forgetting.... Madness means forgetfulness of his real life. So we are now forgetful of our real life.

"These aren't the droids you're looking for"'.

Cricket? Soccer? I'll send some hockey sticks - then you'll see some happy kids. Ya'll got ice there at the ashram? I think maybe we were just glad to get away from our domineering parents and relish that independence our soul craved by entering this game of material life. Cooking mud pies for Krsna - now that's a nice engagement. That picture showed a very happy boy. Or a Ratha-yatra cart! Murali talked about his little kids debating whether gurudeva was everywhere. I'd have to say he was doing something right somewhere.

Wonderful. We have agreement at last. Discussion tabled. Merry Christmas. Hare Krishna I am that I am!

So you are suggesting that the people who corrupted the words of Jesus have substituted those of Krsna from the Bhagavad-gita into hundreds of spots in the New Testament? Or perhaps they substituted their own evil fantasies for the words of Krsna too?

Words are not the only way to know a thing. Just ask Krsna. It's not worth the effort anymore. I am satisfied that any Christians who read this thread will know that one group here has no idea what they're talking about. And they will recognize that even in their own church some people will just not get it, despite all their reading and quoting with high scholarship. Somehow they will just continue licking the outside of the honey bottle but never taste the real thing.

Please forgive me if this seems offensive to anyone, and I'm not trying to minimize the plight of the little ones, but they remind me of the Goswamis of Vrindavan. Surely these little ones are fortunate to have encountered the love of this ashram where Lord Caitanya's glories manifest in this dark world.

Please my friends, don't get carried away here. Perhaps what we are missing is the different picture we each look at. Murali Mohan das sees kids who get so many toys that they mean nothing to them. But I'm sure Murali can remember the joy of the first toy his kids actually appreciated. Jahnava Nitai on the other hand, sees kids who just received the first colourful toy they've ever seen. At last someone cares about me. I am special. The world is a wonderful place. We each have our own little parrish where the norms differ radically. I think we can all accept that each of us is trying our best to serve guru and Gauranga wherever we are. There are kids who are physically and sexually abused daily, or psychologically harrassed their entire lives. The pain out there is unbearable. We can help - happy with nothing but a song in our hearts. Yet, as Jahnava Nitai das would attest to: "You can't preach to someone who has an empty stomach". Or a destroyed self-image for that matter.

Fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too. Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can. i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

Our friend, Gauracandra got into this some time ago in this thread: http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/28687-king-folletts-discourse-joseph-smith.html

Twelve million follow the Mormon Church of Latter-Day Saints. Here is a report including video: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/?campaign=pbshomefeatures_2_frontlineamericanexperiencethemormons_2008-02-12

Yes, would they use the same impudent attitude to dissect their own scripture's God they would be left as ignorant atheists. Ooops, but that is what they are doing now, unknowingly, offending Krsna with every breath in a different language.

Mantra 12 andhaM tamaH pravizanti ye 'sambhUtim upAsate tato bhUya iva te tamo ya u sambhUtyAm ratAH SYNONYMS andham--ignorance; tamaH--darkness; pravizanti--enter into; ye--those who; asambhUtim--demigods; upAsate--worship; tataH--than that; bhUyaH--still more; iva--like that; te--those; tamaH--darkness; ye--who; u--also; sambhUtyAm--in the Absolute; ratAH--engaged. TRANSLATION Those who are engaged in the worship of demigods enter into the darkest region of ignorance, and still more so do the worshipers of the impersonal Absolute. From the Purport: "The Sanskrit word asambhUti refers to those who have no independent existence. SambhUti is the Absolute Personality of Godhead, who is absolutely independent of everything." Mantra Fourteen TEXT sambhUtiM ca vinAzaM ca yas tad vedobhayaM saha vinAzena mRtyuM tIrtvA sambhUtyAmRtam aznute SYNONYMS sambhUtim--the eternal Personality of Godhead, His transcendental name, form, pastimes, qualities and paraphernalia, the variegatedness of His abode, etc.; ca--and; vinAzam--the temporary material manifestation of demigods, men, animals, etc., with their false names, fame, etc.; ca--also; yaH--one who; tat--that; veda--knows; ubhayam--both; saha--along with; vinAzena--with everything liable to be vanquished; mRtyum--death; tIrtvA--surpassing; sam-bhUtyA--in the eternal kingdom of God; amRtam--deathlessness; aznute--enjoys. TRANSLATION One should know perfectly the Personality of Godhead SrI KRSNa and His transcendental name, form, qualities and pastimes, as well as the temporary material creation with its temporary demigods, men and animals. When one knows these, he surpasses death and the ephemeral cosmic manifestation with it, and in the eternal kingdom of God he enjoys his eternal life of bliss and knowledge.

Christ's message is the same as Krsna's, so how can we conclude that the message of Jesus has been corrupted? That makes no sense, unless Krsna's message has also been corrupted (although one could prove that with the mind too - another penalty for the offense of mind consciousness). Christians may have fallen from the path, but no sincere person will deride the message preached by Lord Jesus, least of all a vaisnava. It is the good news of God that has been heard over and over from the lips of the saints from time immemorial.

Well, there we have it. We have cut to the chase and found the underlying fault. We interpret Bhagavad-gita to mean something about varna, abandoning trivial concepts like bhakti (10.10) and saranagata (18.66). That is why we can't understand the teachings of Jesus as the essence of religion. But then, we don't even know what Jesus preached. How is it that we have so many opinions about who he was, without even knowing this basic starting point? How is it that Parasurama personally killed millions at a time with His axe? Over and over again? What was their fault? Jesus did not preach karma-kanda - was that a fault? What is the highest path taught by Lord Krishna on Kuruksetra? Sorry, but I don't see any "incriminating questions". I only see bigotry and irrational mental speculation with no tinge of contact with God. I see no religion, no bhakti - only self-aggrandizement. I see jihad in the guise of Hindu intellectualism. I see words not connected in the least with Krsna, Paramatma. I see people ridiculing a teaching that they don't even know - a teaching which has apparently remained incomprehensible to them even from the lips of Sri Krsna Himself. I see nothing.

It seems someone quoted AC Bhaktivedanta because it seemed to serve their purpose, so it would appear fair to quote some more: "So KRSNa says, yatatAm api siddhAnAm: [bg. 7.3] "Those who have become perfect, out of many millions of them, one can understand what I am." It is not so easy to understand God. But if you take the process as is recommended in the zAstras by saintly person, then it is easy. Otherwise it is not easy. If you speculate to understand God, that is not possible. Then you go on and many, many years speculating. You will never understand God. Either you take the shelter of Lord Jesus Christ or KRSNa, if you follow his instruction--this is the way of understanding--then you will understand. But if you don't care for his instruction, then you will never understand. This is the process. " ................. Guest (1): Would you say something about Christ and his relation to KRSNa consciousness? Christ? Jesus Christ? PrabhupAda: Christ is KRSNa conscious. That's all. You become like Christ, KRSNa conscious. Don't you understand Christ, that he is fully KRSNa conscious? You don't understand it? Then you become like Christ, fully KRSNa conscious. .................. PrabhupAda: KRSNa, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And KRSNa says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya MahAprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of KRSNa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So if anyone loves KRSNa, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love KRSNa. If he says, "Why shall I love KRSNa? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he also has no knowledge. If one understands KRSNa, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand KRSNa.