Sonic Yogi

We all know what manjaris are and what service they perform. That is not what I am inquiring about. I am asking where the term manjari appears in the writings of the Goswamis first. It does not appear in the CC of Krsnadas Kaviraja Goswami. So, did the Six Goswamis use the term or did it start showing up in the writings of Narottama das Thakur or where is the origin of the term. Long explanations of what a manjari is and does is not my question. I want to know where the TERM manjari starts showing up in the Gaudiya canon.

We know that the manjaris are gopis. That is not the question. We are looking to find where is the origin of calling these young gopis as manjaris. We know that Narottama das Thakur used the term in some of his songs. But, since the term is not used in CC, Bhagavatam etc., I am just curious as to where the term manjari starts showing up in writings of the six-Goswamis or wherever it starts.

A Google search produces about 12,500 results for Pravati. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pravati&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq= So, Parvati is pronounced as Pravati by many Hindus. Your Mom is just speaking how she was taught.

Here is an interesting fact. The term "manjari" is not found in the entire Caitanya Caritamtrita except in reference to the buds of the Tulasi tree. It never shows up as referring to the assistant maidservants of Radharani. The term never shows up even once in a Vedabase search of Srimad Bhagavatam. Here are the results. However, the term "sakhi" shows up numerous times in the CC. Isn't that interesting...... Does anyone know in what Gaudiya text term "manjari" starts showing up in the original verses as referring to the maidservants of Radharani?

Krsna Book ch. 59

Most certainly, the written words of the previous acharyas are siksha in the most dependable and authentic form. Better than second hand information coming from questionable sources is the actual authorized writings of the acharyas. Actually, most any more experienced senior devotee who helps us learn the ways of a devotee should be seen as a siksha guru of sorts. We need many siksha gurus to help us along. When we join the temple we have senior devotees show us how to bathe properly, wear temple clothing, apply Tilak, honor prasada and perform routine services etc. etc. In the life of an aspiring devotee there will be many siksha gurus, but Srila Prabhupada is very prominent because of his books being the foundation for Krsna consciousness for most of the devotees of the KC movement in the western world. For an English speaking devotee in the western world, Srila Prabhupada will certainly be the principle siksha guru if that devotee depends heavily on the books of Srila Prabhupada for his spiritual knowledge. There are other gurus and acharyas who have also produced works in English and they can also be accepted as siksha guru if one takes inspiration and guidance from those books of instruction. Just make sure you don't get all entangled with a diksha guru who wants to exploit you for personal livelyhood and does not allow you to accept whatever siksha guru you choose to accept. If the diksha guru wants wholesale and exclusive authority in your spiritual life, then most likely he is a career guru that exploits disciples as a mean of livelyhood. You might want to avoid that.

Answer #1. In ISKCON of Srila Prabhupada uninitiated devotees most certainly did chant on Tulasi beads. Answer #2. There are two kinds of instructing spiritual masters. One is the liberated person fully absorbed in meditation in devotional service, and the other is he who invokes the disciple's spiritual consciousness by means of relevant instructions. Thus the instructions in the science of devotion are differentiated in terms of the objective and subjective ways of understanding. The acarya in the true sense of the term, who is authorized to deliver Krsna, enriches the disciple with full spiritual knowledge and thus awakens him to the activities of devotional service.

One thing I would advise is not to go "guru shopping". Don't try to find a guru, try to find out who actually is your guru and who has been the most genuine link between you and Krsna. It's not a matter of choosing a guru, but trying to find out which guru Krsna sent for you. So, the siksha guru parampara of the Saraswata Gaudiyas puts more importance on the siksha guru. The diksha guru is not of supreme importance if he is legitimate. Most important is the siksha guru who can even take you farther than the diksha guru in understanding KC. So, don't get too hung up on the diksha guru. Try to find a nice diksha guru who will accommodate you in having a siksha guru who might just happen to be more advanced than him. Don't sell your soul to a diksha guru who wants to own your soul and not allow you to accept a siksha guru that you find strong faith in. If you can find your most dear siksha guru and diksha guru in the same person, then that is very nice as well. But, nowadays, with so many diksha gurus taking disciples it is easy to end up with a siksha guru who you might happen to love more than the diksha guru if he touches your soul deeper. So, no guru shopping. Search your soul for the one who actually IS your guru and don't take diksha just because it is fashionable and end up with regrets.

Don't rush it. Take your time. If you have heard the maha-mantra from an initiated devotee then you already have empowerment to chant and make progress. It is really a task to sort through all the politics that contaminate the atmosphere of Mahaprabhu's movement, so take your time, you don't have to be in any big hurry. But, if you are really into Prabhupada and not as familiar with Sridhar Maharaja, then I think Narasimha Maharaja would be a good balanced choice. In the camp of Govinda Maharaja there is a serious leaning towards Srila Sridhar Maharaja and a very Prabhupada oriented devotee might not find enough emphasis on Srila Prabhupada there. There the emphasis is on Sridhar Maharaja. In the camp of Narasimha Maharaja, you get the main focus on Srila Prabhupada with a nice blending of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. It is a good option for a Prabhupada oriented devotee who is willing to accept some sweet nectar from the camp of Srila Sridhar Maharaja as well. You have to sort out your inner leanings and then we can all help you find the camp that most suits your personal needs.

http://www.medicinenet.com/kidney_failure/article.htm

I would suggest you just ignore and avoid these Christian bigots. You cannot open their eyes, inform them, educate them or help them understand. They are the demons and you should just avoid them and not waste any time or energy arguing or debating with them. Spend your time helping the innocent and sincere. Don't waste your time on these demons in the guise of religionists. They are meat-eating melecchas with no sympathy for innocent creatures. Avoid them like a plague and spend your energy getting some KC books into the hands of open-minded people.

So, Srila Sridhar Maharaja was told somethings about the couple of prayer songs that Srila Prabhupada wrote on the Jaladuta or upon arriving in the USA, but he wasn't presented a balanced and complete picture of all the things that Srila Prabhupada wrote in his books such as: Had Sridhar Maharaja been shown some evidence from the writings of Srila Prabhupada in his books, rather than a snapshot of a couple of verses he wrote on the Jaladuta, then maybe Sridhar Maharaja would have shown even more reservation in supporting and endorsing the assumption that Srila Prabbhupada was on the sakhya-rasa level and not the more excellent and exalted madhurya-rasa platform of love of Krsna? That is why I say that to make any kind of educated guess about the rasa of Srila Prabhupada one would have to study the whole body of his writings and not just examine a couple of verses he wrote on the Jaladuta coming to America. So, Sridhar Maharaja was not very pre-occupied with sorting out the rasa of Srila Prabhupada. He reacted to a one-sided presentation that did not demonstrate more completly the full range of Srila Prabhupada's writings. So, I prefer to look a little deeper and try to examine the matter from a more balanced and objective approach. As such, I will arrive at my own conclusions in that way.

I might be wrong, but I will go out on a limb and assume that Srila Prabhupada was and is attached the activities of Lord Caitanya? If we do the math, as Srila Prabhupada instructs, then it becomes quite obvious that ultimately he is situated in madhurya-rasa, despite any sakhya-rasa sentments he expressed in his words on the Jaladuta as he was commencing a worldwide preaching mission in a predominanatly Christian world outside of India and far away from Vrindavan and Navadvip.

TLC ch. 17

TLC CH. 17

Good, keep your politics out of this topic. There are thousands of topics devoted to ISKCON politics. We don't need another one.

Such a comment is very presumptuous. So, you claim to know the attainment of every disciple of Srila Prabhupada on the planet. How do you know that? You can't know that. You are just assuming the position of judging every disciple of Srila Prabhupada as if you are all-knowing to make a sweeping judgment like that. Most often, we make such remarks about the Godbrothers out of neophyte jealousy to try and bring all them down to our own neophyte unrealized condition, when in fact some of them are probably much more advanced. Because I am a neophyte, I must try and drag everyone else down to my level. If Srila Prabhupada did reveal his spiritual identity to a disciple so you think that disciple would like get on the internet and broadcast it to the whole world?

It only seems logical that Srila Prabhupada understood that he was coming to America, a non-Hindu nation of so-called conservative Christian values with no conception of conjugal love of Godhead, and that as Sridhar Maharaja said, possibly did not intend to give conjugal love of Godhead in "the first installment". So, upon first arriving in America he might have been more in the mood of sakhya-rasa and somewhat protective of the conjugal love conception. Then, later, when he saw so many western boys and girls being very open and receptive to the conjugal conception of love of Krsna he might have began to stress more the glories of conjugal love of Krsna. On the Jaladuta, coming over from India, Srila Prabhupada might have been setting the mood for his introduction of Gaudiya Vaishnavism to the western world with a sakhya-rasa sentiment and keeping the madhurya-rasa in the background unless and until he found a receptive audience here in the western world. Eventually, large numbers of western devotees showed much receptivity to the conjugal conception of love of Krsna and in the books of Srila Prabhupada the conjugal love of Krsna is ALWAYS glorified as the supreme and most excellant and exalted type of love of Godhead. Srila Prabhupada relentlessly emphasized that conjugal love of Krishna is the topmost level of love of Godhead. So, his eyes were open to that reality. If so, how could he be satisfied with anything less?

NOD ch.37 Here is an example of transformation of rasa.

So, the concept of "changing rasa" is not the way to look at it. One does not "change rasa" but rather his rasa evolves, advances and become deeper and sweeter progressing on through the stages of love until the pinnacle of love of Krsna is attained in the madhurya-rasa which contains within it all the previous rasas and stages of development. A billionaire is also a millionaire. Being a millionaire is contained within being a billionaire. One does not cease to be a millionaire upon becoming a billionaire.

I think a better way to think about it is "it's a wonderful position and millions of souls are standing in line to get such a position". However, as shastric examples of devotees who came in contact with the gopis and aspired to follow in their footsteps in the pastimes of Krsna, Uddhava is one of the few examples we see. Uddhava seems to be the preeminent example of a devotee from another rasa coming in contact with the gopis and becoming so moved by their devotional excellance that he actually comes to aspire to attain to that standard of love of Krsna. We don't have a pleuthora of examples of this happening in the shastra. So, it might not be a standard and common situation. It might be that for the most part most of the nitya-siddhas stay in a fixed rasa and do not evolve beyond a certain point. Or, maybe it is a common thing and we have only been shown one example to demonstrate the possibilities without making too much out of it and possibly disturbing the mind of neophytes who aren't ready to accept the concept of evolution in rasa in a systematic development. If in fact Uddhava did take birth as a clump of grass in a future incarnation and got the foot dust of the gopis, then that opens up the possibililty that in his future birth after having been that clump of grass that the soul of Uddhava took birth as a gopi in Gokula Vrindavan and moved up from his previous dasya/sakhya rasa to madhurya rasa and then entered into Goloka as a gopi. One thing we can know for sure is that there are umilimited possibilities for the liberated souls and that as spiritual beings they have the potential to continue spiritual advancement until the zenith of bhakti-rasa has been attained in madhurya-rasa - the conjugal love of Godhead.

Madhya 19.132 purport: So, book distribution can help one become a Rupanuga.

dandavats...