Sonic Yogi

NOD CH.43 Here is a list of devotees with mixtures of different bhavas.

NOD ch. 42 So, the statement "may develop into conjugal love" seems to be referring to the person and not the different kinds of rasa. If it was not in reference to the devotee, then it would most certainly develop into conjugal love as far as the different kinds of rasa and their stages of intensity are concerned.

I would like to see shastric reference on the point. Second hand information is prone to error. In the CC of Prabhupada is says: CC Adi. 7.15 purport Srila Prabhupada doesn't say he presides over jiva-tattva, he says he represents jiva tattva. I think there is a difference and the wording has a meaning.

Srila Prabhupada hasn't presented anything about these Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur conclusions, but Narada was conditioned soul first and then now he is nitya-siddha, that is the way that it is taught in the books of Srila Prabhupada. I would be glad to see the actual quote rather than your personal recollection. I find that sometimes I don't agree with the way others read certain conclusions from the shastra, so I like to see the actual verse and quote myself. I am not too good at taking second-hand information. Again, shastra says that Krsna agrees to come under the control of the gopis and Naradi Gopi is of course a gopi and I am not so quick to buy a claim that outside the Rupanuga camp none of the gopis have affectionate control over Krsna. Again,I would like to see verse and point from shastra. I have often found that I understand things from the books differently than others and I prefer to use my own discretion.

Yes, you are my Google Maharaja who showed me how to use the search engine. Without you my Google Maharaja, where would I be?

But, as Srivas Pandit he is a follower of Mahaprabhu. That is good enough for me. I don't really know if being a pure Rupanuga is my inner hankering anyway. I certainly am more inclined towards Srivas Pandit aka Narada Muni. Why? Because he is not specifically inclined to enter Goloka and just stay there in nitya-lila. As Narada he eternally scouts the material world and Vaikuntha for converts to Krsna consciousness, coming back and forth. He is a sacrificer eternally. He wants to show mercy to the fallen condititioned souls. I know that Rupa Goswami comes with the Mahaprabhu avatar and also does his part for the preaching mission, but Narada Muni's style is really the most amazing lifestyle as far as I am concerned. In fact, I haven't been able to find the quote yet, but I think I remember either in a book or a lecture where Srila Prabhupada said that by Krsna consciousness "you too can become like Narada Muni". I would like to find that quote. Right now I am at my job and I don't have all that much time. I will keep looking for it. Quite frankly, I have always wanted to be like Narada Muni since I read Srimad Bhagavatam. He has always been my favorite role model.

It is quite clear from shastra that Narada was a conditioned jiva in a previous life. So, if in fact he is classified as svarupa-shakti, then he attained that position from the ranks of the conditioned souls. In CC Srivas Pandit (the incarnation of Narada) is said as representing the jiva tattva. So, I don't think I can agree fully with your point. As well, as far as I know, Radharani is the only gopi that can fully control Krsna. So, Naradi Gopi not having full control of Krsna is no issue with me. Certainly, he is not on the level of Radha, but who is? I don't really want to control Krsna. I am quite fine in letting him control me. I am not out to compete with Radharani just yet.

SB 1.6.38 purport: <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Śrī Nārada Muni plays on his instrument to glorify the transcendental activities of the Lord and to give relief to all miserable living entities of the universe. </td></tr></tbody></table>

SB 1.3.38 purport: Prabhupada also preached to the masses. One of the tasks of Narada Muni.

SB 1.6.31 purport

So it appears that Narada has sthayi-bhava of Madhumangal, Naradiya Gopi, some Narayan in Vaikuntha form etc. all at the same time. So, this pretty much opens up the possibility that at least in some tattva of bhakta like Narada there is the flexibility and fluidity to go from one sthayi-bhava to another according to his wish. So, "changing rasas?" It appears that Narada can do so. There is a modern term called "shape-shifter". Narada appears to be something like that. One of his forms could be A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I also owe Beggar unlimitedly for supplying this information. Beggar is also one of my gurus. He is my senior Godbrother and siksha guru. I take the dust of his lotus feet on my head. Beggar ki-jaya!!!!!!!!!!!

SB 1.6.37 purport The kind of freedom of choice and total freedom in rasa that I was trying to imply in my previous posts on another topic is exactly the kind of freedom that Narada Muni has. Now that is what I'm talkin' about. Narada Muni exemplifies that type of spritual versatility and fluidity that I was trying to infer on the previous topic. This answers a lot of questions for me. Today, I am a happy camper.

SB 1.6.38 purport: So, Prabhupada says here he is following in the footsteps of Narada Muni. That explains a lot of things.

So, this pretty much solves the dilemma. I have often thought that Srila Prabhupada was an incarnation of Narada Muni. If he is, that is why he can simultaneously be in sakhya-rasa and madhurya-rasa both in different aspects of his personality. I think Prabhupada is either an incarnation of Narada Muni or of the type of devotee as Narada Muni. Like Narada, he flys all over the world preaching love of Krsna. Wow, for sure, this is the greatest ideal of a devotee that would be so wonderful to emulate. I guess great preachers like Narada and Prabhupada get the option of tasting all the best rasa? This is the ultimate. Now, I know that Narada Muni is my role model. Of course, for some reason I have long thought that anyway. There can be nothing better than that. I take the dust of the lotus feet of Narayan Maharaja on my head. I owe him big time for supplying such marvelous nectar for my scorching soul.

So, this statement contradicts the theory that there is an inborn innate specific rasa that will be discovered upon svarupa-siddhi. On the previous topic Beggar posted a statement by Narayana Maharaja where he said: So, it appears that he has supported both sides of this discussion on different occasions.

I just wanted to pop back up and say my apologies to Babhru, Tripurari Maharaja and all the others that I might have offended with my posts on this topic. Please excuse my offenses. I am just a lowly soul prone to argument. I don't really have any personal objection to the theory that Srila Prabhupada is in sakhya-rasa. But, then again even Krishnadas Kaviraja was a little abrasive in some of his ways talking about kicking somone in the head or saying how happy he was that the non-devotees had no taste for Krsna katha. So, being tough is not always a sign that someone is not in madhurya-rasa. Srila Prabhupada was a very tough and strong minded person. Certainly no wallflower timid speaker. Anyway, apologies to all. I don't object the the theory that Prabhupada is in sakhya-rasa, but I guess I sort of do object to organized systematic propaganda of such. Out of respect for Narayana Maharaja and his followers, Gaura Govinda Maharaja and his followers, Narasingha Maharaja and his followers and many ISKCON devotees and disciples, I think the media propaganda that Srila Prabhupada is in sakhya-rasa is guaranteed to make a stink. Maybe that was the whole idea from the get go? I don't know. I really feel bad if I think that I have offended any nice devotee like Babhru or Tripurari Maharaja or his disciples. They have their own emotions and their own missions in life and it appears that establishing Srila Prabhupada in sakhya-rasa is part of that mission. I do respect their feelings and I ask for forgiveness for my offenses. It's a very unfortunate situation. Feelings are getting hurt on both sides. It is always sad when something new comes up to further divide and disparage unity of the KC movement. What to do? People are getting feelings hurt one way or the other. So, there is struggle and strife from all camps to defend the honor and integrity of their Guru Maharaja. It is really just sad that the ecstacy of Prabhupada has become such a divisive issue between sincere devotees from all sides. I guess there is a purpose behind it. What the master plan is I certainly don't know. Somehow we have to try and find some good in all this bickering and arguing about the rasa of Srila Prabhupada. What that good is, I guess is something we all have to find in our own heart. My reason for this post was to apologize to all the nice devotees whom I offended on this topic. I don't have a problem with the conclusions of any party, but when it becomes a public issue and public debate and causes ill feelings and arguing amongst devotees then it has gone awry. I should get most all the blame for turning this sweet topic into a war or a debate. I am very sorry. But, I over reacted because I guess I just somehow don't like the idea of making international media propaganda about the topic and aggravating an already aggravated atmosphere within the KC movement. I love all you devotees. Devotees are very dear to me. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.

This is the bottom line for me. I pretty much take this as the safest position as opposed to going willy-nilly into a sakhya-rasa conclusion. At the is point, I guess I will stop being a disturbance to this topic. Good luck with the book and the topic Babhru. Adios......

So, many disciples of Srila Prabhupada, right or wrong, will consider that Srila Prabhupada is of the highest perfection. The Gaudiya siddhanta as it is so fully developed and presented by the Goswamis cannot but lead one to that conclusion. Those devotees not in the line of the six Goswamis might not be so aware of all these things, but in the Rupanuga sampradaya such is the conclusion.

So we are taught this in the Gaudiya siddhanta. So, that is why most disciples look up to their guru acharya as possessing the MOST EXCELLENT kind of love of Krsna. It's only natural that a disciple will see his guru this way. To say that Prabhupada does not possess the most excellent love of Krsna will not set well with most disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

Rag-tag? Srila Prabhuapada said "they are intelligent boys, they are not fools". Those early days were magic. I love watching these old videos. Some of these early disciples were very educated and intelligent. I didn't see anything "rag-tag" about them.

True. And who is it that is going to come forward and accuse Srila Prabhupada of not practicing what he preached. So, he was teaching all his early disciples that they should realize themselves as feminine in relation to Krsna and that the love of the gopis was the highest and the best but he himself was more partial to a lesser level of love of Krsna? It just doesn't seem plausible that all the early disciples were imbibing madhurya-rasa conceptions from Srila Prabhupada who was himself in sakhya-rasa. So, Mahaprabhu sent a cowherd boy in sakhya-rasa to teach the world that the love of the gopis is the best?