Sonic Yogi

Do to a lack of an anti-party on this topic I will heretofore become the champion of the school of thought that Srila Prabhupada was in fact in madhurya-rasa. So, bear with me as we milk this topic for some interesting debate. As I said, I am not convinced one way or the other. To me, Srila Prabhupada is an incarnation of Godhead - shaktya-vesha avatara. But, for the sake of discussion I will consider him a parshada instead.

I do remember that Srila Sridhar Maharaja reserved ultimate judgement on the matter and conceded that the sakhya-rasa sentiments expressed by Srila Prabhupada could have been an upsurge caused by the avesha of Lord Nityananda entering into the heart of Srila Prabhupada. As best I can recall, Srila Sridhar Maharaja never issued a final decree on the matter and reserved giving any final judgement on the matter. Most certainly, Srila Prabhupada's love for Krishna takes a back seat to nobody. Several times in his books he explains that madhurya-rasa is the highest. How can a parshada in sakhya-rasa be preaching that madhurya-rasa is the highest? I can't help but think that the love Srila Prabhupad had for Krishna was of the highest quality, though his being a shaktya-vesha of Nityananda caused the expression of a very prominent sakhya-rasa.

Another thought about Srila Prabhupada being away from his "place of bhajan since 1965" is that he says : So, Srila Prabhupada left his place of bhajan and possibly the mood of his bhajan to preach worldwide, but his disciples take care of that place of bhajan. To me, that possibly means that even though Srila Prabhupada was away from his bhajan and his inner mood since 1965, his disciples were caring for the place and also following in that mood behind the tomb of Srila Rupa Goswami.

The one thing that always sticks in my mind that seems to be a strong indication that Srila Prabhuapda was in fact in madhurya-rasa is in his concluding words to Nectar of Devotion: So, since 1965 Srila Prabhupada was away from his place of bhajan which appeared to be very oriented to madhurya-rasa being behind the tomb of Srila Rupa Goswami. So, since 1965 Srila Prabhupada did not express any obvious and revealing signs of expressing madhurya-rasa. He did express some sakhya-rasa symptoms as are well-documented in the booklet by Babhru Dasa. So, it can be confusing. If Srila Prabhupada was in fact in madhurya-rasa, he did a good job of concealing that upon his taking up a worldwide preaching mission. It could very well be that Srila Prabhupada concealed his madhurya-rasa in an effort to protect madhurya-rasa from cheap imitations resulting from his worldwide mission. His final words of NOD seem to say that his bhajan was in madhurya-rasa but that since 1965 he was away from that. What he showed the world after 1965 seemed to be sakhya-rasa. His bhajan in Vrindavan behind the tomb of Srila Rupa Goswami seems to have been steeped in madhurya-rasa. He, after all did teach his disciples that "we are Rupanugas". ISKCON was certainly never bereft of a strong tendency to madhurya-rasa from what I could see and feel in my years in ISKCON. Even after reading Srila Prabhuapda's books I quickly came to that conclusion in my first years in ISKCON. But, as Sridhar Maharaja explained, if in fact he was shaktya-vesha of Nityananda Prabhu, those sakhya-sentiments could very well have been the sakhya-rasa of Nityananda Prabhu coming through Srila Prabhupada. I have never come to a certain conclusion. I see evidence going both ways. Personally, I look for the clues in his books more so than in any other extraneous considerations. To me, Srila Prabhupada almost seems like an incarnation of Godhead more so than an incarnation of any particular parshada. One time a Hindu man referred to Srila Prabhupada as an incarnation of Vyasadeva. Srila Prabhupada just smiled. (so the story goes) Could he be a combined incarnation of Vyasadeva and Lord Nityananda?

I am quite sure that the booklet will become a hotly controversial issue much despised and ridiculed by ISKCON big shots and small timers as well. What else could we expect from the camp of Tripurari Maharaja? But, I will never be one to argue your conclusions as Prabhupada came to me in a dream in about 1982 and told me "so many they want to know who I am, but I can tell you ask Subala Sakha he knows". I didn't draw any profound conclusions from the dream, but I thought it might have been some indication from Srila Prabhupada being in sakhya-rasa. In my heart I can't really think of Srila Prabhupada in madhurya-rasa. I do feel that he is in sakhya-rasa and a well-wisher of Lord Krishna.

Amen.....

My Guru is not God, but he controls God with his pure love and devotion, so being God is not the highest position. God is under the control of his pure devotees. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Some of the groupies of Narayana Maharaja think he should have been the successor to Srila Prabhupada. I don't agree, but that probably would have turned out a lot better than the guru-mania that has turned ISKCON into a laughing stock.

That is exactly the point behind ritvik and why Srila Prabhupada installed it in ISKCON. The ritvik system would have kept ISKCON one big family instead of a hundred factions splintering behind a horde of neophyte gurus. In the name of tradition they have destroyed ISKCON and the lives of thousands of devotees.

Sarva gattah, Read the books of Srila Prabhupada. Start with Bhagavad-gita. In the introduction you will find: The soul leaves the body. The body doesn't leave the soul.

According to this description the soul does move.

The Sampradaya Sun is a forum in the format of a news website. These guys are battling back and forth like each one is news or something. I don't know why they just didn't incorporate a comment function on each article instead of posting one reply after another in the form of a news article. It's does get old. I go there for news from around the KC movement and get mostly just forum debating going on in the guise of news articles. I think the Sun should be for news and debating should be for forums. All the petty political wrangling gets real old. I like to debate the siddhanta, but all that political turmoil is just a waste of time. All the whiners get their 5 minutes of fame on the Sun. I guess if it were not for bad news the Sun would not have any news at all?

From this we can see that the soul is moving around all over the universe.

The army of Lord Siva is not a spiritual topic. The army of Lord Siva is not spiritual. Lord Siva is the Lord of the material world. There is nothing spiritual about his army of asuras. Spiritual discussions are about spiritual things not about material things.

(letter from Srila Prabhupada) http://www.prabhupada1968.com/2004_12_19_archive.html December, 21 1968 Los Angeles, Calif. My Dear Harer Nama, (excerpt) <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Your second question about falling down from the brahmajyoti is answered that it is not that one must fall down, but that they generally fall down. There is a verse in Srimad-Bhagavatam, 10th canto, 2nd chapter, verse 26. "My Dear Lotus Eyed Personality of Godhead, persons who are very proud of becoming one with the brahma effulgence and thereby consider that they have become liberated are factually in a contaminated consciousness on account of the absence of devotional service unto You. Such persons may rise to a high level of spiritual understanding as far as the impersonal brahmajyoti but on account of the lack of devotional service unto You, they generally fall down again into material contamination." </td></tr></tbody></table>

Yes, yes indeed it is Tea time my good man. On another topic he just started he is saying that the soul does not leave the body but the body has a mind of it's own and leaves the soul. It must be awfully lonesome in that dark little closet where he lives and breathes.

Those siddhis are all material things. Nothing spiritual about mystic siddhis. Mystic siddhis are desired by those who want to lord it over the material energy and be false Gods in a dream world. Mystic siddhi is not a spiritual topic. They are desired by the less intelligent who are attached to the material energy.

Care to describe what those lies and half-truths were? By the way it is not "our movement" or your movement or my movement it is the movement of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

He is more important than God. We cannot serve God directly. We can only serve his pure devotees. The genuine acharya, pure devotee spiritual master (not to be confused with ISKCON imitations) is much more important than God to the disciple because it is only through the spiritual master than we can approach Krishna. God (Krishna) does not accept direct service. He only accepts service rendered to and through his pure devotees. So, in that way, the true acharya spiritual master is more important to the disciple than God directly. Only a buffoon advocates direct service to Krishna. There is no such thing for the fallen jivas. It doesn't matter if the Guru is God. The pure devotees control even Krishna. So, even if you aren't God, if you can control God it is just as good.

Sri Guru and His Grace ch.11 Srila Sridhar Maharaja In Goloka they don't think that there is only one guru.

Vyasadeva didn't form a GBC or give diksha by tape recorder. Modern acharyas don't fit into ancient stereotypes.

The colossal failure of the ISKCON guru system says otherwise. There IS a need to invent a new system in the age where thousands of neophytes want to play guru and produce a class of embittered ex-devotees.

Well, Prabhupada appeared to have a material body but really he didn't. We thought he had a material body and it looked like he did, but really that body was all spiritual. There is no difference if the Lord INCARNATES. Krishna can only be seen by eyes smeared with the salve of love of Godhead. Yet, he was visible to so many demons, non-devotees, karmis, yogis etc. The only way they could see Krishna was because he appeared in a form that their material eyes could behold. Krishna didn't have a material body. Neither did Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada's body was purely spiritual. In fact, many people that saw Krishna thought he was just a human being. He didn't look like God to them. He looked like a man.