Sonic Yogi

http://www.gosai.com/krishna-talk/brahmana-guru.html

In fact, Madhavendra Puri is the first link in the Madhva chain to express what is essentially the Gaudiya position. So, if you guys want to really get at the root then better move your attack to Madhavendra Puri.

You make believe Madhvas need to understand that you have no right to speak on behalf of Isvara Puri who was the Madhva acharya who initiated Mahaprabhu into the Madhva sampradaya. Isvara Puri accepted Mahaprabhu and none of you little make believe Madhvas have any right to speak on behalf of Isvara Puri. He accepted Mahaprabhu for initiation. None of you guys can change that with all you big talking.

Bhakta Joe had a debate with a Madhva Swami and defeated him pathetically in front of 50,000 Hindus at Udupi in 1973.

You guys act like you are the first bunch of losers to confront the Gaudiyas with this same old tired argument. The Gaudiyas defeated you guys hundreds of years ago. There is no need to defeat an argument that was laid to rest hundreds of years ago. You guys take yourself too seriously. Much bigger fish than you have been fried by the Gaudiya acharyas in the past. There is no reason to fry you shrimp when the sharks have already been defeated.

sure boss.....whatever you say.....

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Petty little caste priests as your good self have been saying this same thing for almost 500 years. Yet the Gaudiya caravan just passes by the barking dogs. You are not nearly as significant as you presume to be. In fact you are just totally significant. You come on the forum to discredit the Gaudiya sampradaya and you expect to be received with open arms? We are quite sure you will never do anything except blow hot air lest your identity be exposed as the man who wants to destroy the Gaudiya sampradaya. You are in deeper than you know. You are showing a grave lack of common sense.

Well, Srila Prabhupada also recognized Jesus and Mohammad. Neither one of them had any Vedic parampara. Now, why he recognized them two and none of the Indians without proper parampara is certainly curious. All I am saying is that the books of Srila Prabhupada spoke to me in a way that I don't need any proof that he is in the parampara.

Is that an unbroken chain of bodies or an unbroken chain of knowledge? The Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya is clearly a siksha based sampradaya. A chain of bodies means NOTHING.

But, Guru and Krishna give you a lot of mercy just for trying. You can't put Guru and Krishna in a bottle and think you have it all figured out. Anyone that thinks otherwise clearly has no conception of the unlimited potencies of the Supreme Godhead Krishna. You can't figure out Krishna. Even trying to only betrays one as a fool.

Funny. I am not seeing references from the books in you posts. See, I read the books. have been since 1975. Anyone that says there are no contradictions in the books clearly have not studied the books. See, I don't just read the books. I study them, contemplate them, meditate on them and bow to them. Anyone that says there are no contradictions in the books has never STUDIED the books. Krishna is full of contradictions. That is why he is inconceivable to the mundane mind.

That could only be spoken by someone who doesn't read the books. I have been reading these books for 34 year and anyone that tries to tell me there are no contradictions in there is just telling me they really haven't studied the books beyond a casual approach. The contradictions are part of the philosophy. Its all a part of the fact that you cannot figure out Krishna or the spiritual master. As soon you think you have it all figured out you miss the whole concept of an inconceivable reality. I guess some people have Prabhupada and Krishna in their fist. I have never been able to do that. They both seem to manage to escape the mental prison I try to put them in.

then that means that every act, every deed, every thought must be dedicated in devotional service to the Lord. Who can do that? A rare few. There are many pretenders out there that put on a show of being wholesale devoted in devotional service, but if you look close enough you will find hidden money, jet-set lifestyles flying around the world to "preach" etc. Lip service to Dharma is easy. Doing only those things that are service to God is another thing. Prabhupada tried to create a society where living Dharma was practical. Some of his ambitious followers turned it into their personal pleasure palace. Creating a place where anyone and everyone could live a life of Dharma got tossed out the door with a lot of the Godbrothers who took issue with them.

I read the books because they were the most incredible books I have ever seen. If there was no parampara at all and Srila Prabhupada claimed to be representing Krishna that would be fine with me. The books clicked with me from the first second I touched one. I never had to put faith in some theoretical sweetness or Nectar of Devotion. I could taste the nectar from the first moment I touched the book and I have been tasting it ever since. All this parampara business doesn't matter a fig to me. Krishna is not bound by any Vedic injunction. Krishna can start a new sampradaya any time he wants. I don't give a hoot about "Vedic" tradition. I believe in Prabhupada and I don't need anything or anyone to confirm that he is a messenger from Krishna.

I think the proposal that room conversations and morning walks are more advanced than the books it just not the case. In fact I would say just the opposite. Your theory is based on the assumption that the so-called disciples were very advanced and getting some higher instruction. I could not disagree more. In fact that idea is the same premise that Gauragopal the Dreamervadi operates on. As well, your assumption that I just jump around the books helter-skelter is another bad assumption. I study the books systematically. Sometimes in doing research I will tap the Vedabase for keywords. But, the references you see me posting here are most often coming from notes I take as I do a systematic study of the books. When I study the books I keep notes of things that I want available for future reference. Most of my quotes come from notes and not from Vedabase or Google searches. I have hundreds of references saved as Vedabase bookmarks and I can just go back and find a reference in a few seconds.

You guys are lazy. You want me to do your homework for you. Well, do your own homework if you want to know the truth about the Gaudiya siddhanta.

But, the fact is that Mahaprabhu grafted his Gaudiya sampradaya plant on the root system of the Brahma-Madhva sect. Who are we to say there is no connection? All the acharyas to date have defended the Gaudiya tradition of being connected to the Madhva sampradaya. A botanist can graft on a different plant to the root system of another plant. They do that to make them resistant to certain diseases and other improvements. So, to keep with Vedic siddhanta the Gaudiya sampradaya must not reject it's connection to the Madhva sect.

Frankly, none of this parampara business means a hoot to me. Even if they say our parampara starts with Srila Prabhupada I could care less. The effects of Chanting Hare Krishna are enough to convince me. I don't need any proof of anything anymore. I chant Hare Krishna and I can see the results. This parampara issue means NOTHING TO ME. It only matters to a few hereditary brahmans who are totally bereft of spiritual qualities and only angry because they want to continue their trade as professional priests in India.

Honestly, I read the books quite a bit and one thing I seem to find in the books of Srila Prabhupada is consistent contradiction. Like, in places he says they never went to the moon and in other places he admits that they did. In some places he says that no one fall from the spiritual world and in other places he says all the fallen souls come from Vaikuntha. In some places he says all his disciples must become gurus, then in other places he says they are not qualified. So, Prabhupada is a complex combination of contradictions. So, what I have chosen to do is accept the side of the contradictory issue that makes the most sense to me and I go with that. Otherwise, for anyone who reads the books of Srila Prabhupada very closely they will find many contractions on all sorts of topics and issues. All you can do is accept the part that makes the most sense to you and just overlook the contradiction. Many devotees find these many contradictions of Srila Prabhupada to just be more than they can handle and so they go on to another guru. I don't see myself doing that. I think there is a purpose for the contradictions, though they do make problems for a lot of devotees.

So, according to Srila Sridhar Maharaja "jiva" specifically refers to the "entangled" soul. When the jiva becomes liberated he becomes Siva. Beyond that he can become bhakta tattva and much more than an entangled jiva. The term jiva specifically denotes an entangled entity overcome by illusion. bhakta-tattva — in the category of devotees Pure devotees are bhakta-tattva, not jiva tattva.

None of this matters. You didn't come here with an open mind to learn something. You came here like Mr. Know-it-all preaching hereditary caste system trying to discredit the entire Gaudiya sampradaya. You are a real hoot and so insignificant that nobody should waste their time trying to open your eyes that are glued shut with prejudice and bigotry. The Gaudiyas don't have to prove anything to you. You in fact are in a position to prove that you have any spiritual qualities at all apart from your bigoted and prejudiced dogma that is suffocating your soul in a cloud of stupidity.

CC Adi 2.96 purport Says here that there are no conditions of external or marginal potencies. In the internal potencies there is no such condition. The entire spiritual world is manifested by the internal potencies of the Lord. Samvit - Sandhini - Hladini No marginal stuff there in Goloka.