Sonic Yogi

Obviously, you don't pay much attention because that statement came from a quote by a Gaudiya acharya Bhaktivinode Thakur. It was nothing of my invention.

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Try to understand this Gauragopal: TLC ch.31 Try to understand that the jiva is marginal energy only when he is overwhelmed by ignorance. The jivas in the spiritual world are not overwhelmed by ignorance. In fact there is no chance they can be because ignorance does not exist in the spiritual world. There is NO marginal energy in the spiritual world which is all internal energy.

Well, this is Gauragopal's self-appointed war against the Gaudiya Math to try and prove that Sridhar Maharaja and the rest of the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada were all mayavadis because they say the jivas come from the brahmajyoti. It's the same old tired campaign he has been on for years and seems to be the only topic he is interested it. He just can't accept that his "new bhakta" concept of Dreamervad and Fallavad might just be a fable that Prabhupada used to explain things that he knew were too complicated for pea-brained people to grasp. When you have some pea brain asking a very complex question it is generally more practical just to tell some metaphorical example rather than get into a deep shastric dissertation that will just fly over the head of the pea brain. Therefore, the ISKCON myths were born.

CC Adi 2.103 purport:

CC 2.96. purport:

CC Adi 2.96 purport In the original, internal potencies there are no such conditions as marginal or external. In the spiritual world there is no marginal or external energy. Upon liberation the jiva enters into the internal energy. There are no marginal energies on the spiritual planets. All the energies there are internal.

Let's face facts you guys don't know what you are talking about. You keep trying to say this is some ISKCON invention when in fact there are families in Bengal that have been doing it for the last 400 years. There are many Vaisnava families in Bengal whose members, although not actually born brahmanas, act as acaryas by initiating disciples and offering the sacred thread as enjoined in the Vaisnava tantras. For example, in the families of Thakura Raghunandana Acarya, Thakura Krsnadasa, Navani Hoda and Rasikananda-deva (a disciple of Syamananda Prabhu), the sacred thread ceremony is performed, as it is for the caste Gosvamis, and this system has continued for the past three to four hundred years. Accepting disciples born in brahmana families, they are bona fide spiritual masters who have the facility to worship the salagrama-sila, which is worshiped with the Deity.

they would have to go with a six-pack of Soma rasa to get the attention of the Moon people.

Are you that embarrassed that a lay member of the Gaudiya community can defeat you that you have to resort to such insults?

Maharaja, this is so lame. Are you saying that Vyasa has no guru and no sampradaya? I thought you could come up with something more Vedic than that. Even Rama and Krishna had a guru, but Vyasa did not? Please don't discredit the Madhva sampradaya with such foolishness.

I will try to provide you with some Vedic shastric reference when I can find the time. I don't have all these things hanging on the tip of my tongue. I have to go back to shastra and do some digging. I am no big guru, teacher or acharya. I am just a lay person. I have been a student of Gaudiya Vaishnavism for about 38 years of my 55 years. Yet, I remain a student who has had his share of diversions. I will try to do some research and provide you with the some Gaudiya siddhanta on these issues. But, for tonight I have some other issues I must attend to. I just wish that there were a more qualified person than myself that was on this forum and could deal with your very intelligent and sincere inquiries. I am not so qualified to discuss these things with an intelligent and astute person as your good self. In time. But, I will have to do some work on the issue and I am not very partial to work.

Here is my reply. Can the Madhva sampradaya prove that Madhvacharya stayed fully in accord with the disciplic siddhanta as comes down through his guru Srila Vyasadeva? Did Vyasadeva himself not explain the Srimad Bhagavat was his commentary on Brahma-sutras? Is not Madhva himself in the Brahma sampradaya? What are the exact tenents of Lord Brahma who is the direct disciple of Lord Krishna? Can the Madhvas say with absolute certainty that the conclusions of Madhvacharya are in absolute accord with the Vedic siddhanta as propounded by Lord Brahma who is the direct disciple of Lord Krishna? So, the Gaudiyas actually are more in tune to the Brahma sampradaya than the Madhva sampradaya which is itself a modified version of the Brahma sampradaya and the conclusions propounded by Lord Brahma in Brahma-samhita and Srimad Bhagavat. So, it is actually the Madhvas who are somewhat in variance to the Brahma sampradaya, not the Gaudiyas. The Gaudiya sampradaya picks up the sampradaya from Madhva and restores it to it's most pristine form as actually descending from Lord Brahma. The Gaudiyas do not have to be in strict accord with Madhva to be in his sampradaya inasmuch as Madhva himself was at variance with the Brahma sampradaya as it is understood by the siddhanta that Lord Brahma propounds in shastra. The Gaudiya siddhanta is strictly in accord with the Vedic siddhanta as propouded by Lord Brahma in shastra. As such they have every right to converge with the Madhva sampradaya and restore the Vedic siddhanta to it's original form as came down to Lord Brahma from Lord Krishna. It is the Brahma sampradaya connection of the Madhva sampradaya that is most important to the Gaudiyas, more so than the Madhva component.

Traditionally, anyone that comes out to be an authority of a sampradaya will show his spiritual link via the current link or acharya of the sampradaya. In all the sampradayas of India the teachers and gurus always clearly list their guru and when they were initiated. It just very odd than someone appearing as an authority of the Madhva sampradaya is showing no connection to the parampara system.

But, it doesn't keep with Vedic siddhanta. There are many cultural traditions in India that get passed off as "Vedic" when in fact they are just traditions based on certain interpretations which in fact do not reflect the actual Vedic siddhanta. Caste by birth has been specifically rejected in shastra for the age of Kali. Shastra says that in Kali-yuga all are born sudra, even Professor Sharma. One becomes dwija by diksha from a proper Vaishnava.

Yeah, I know. The Gaudiya acharyas have explained that the Madhvas practice hereditary principles of caste. The Gaudiyas do not accept hereditary caste system. That is the bigoted caste system that kept India in chains for hundreds of years until the Gaudiya acharyas broke the monopoly and proved that caste should never be determined by birth. I have not been able to find any evidence that Professor Sharma was ever initiated into the Madhva sampradaya. Apart from his family tradition he is not showing diksha by any Madhva guru or acharya. He is a professional man, not a guru.

Well, why don't you if you are so smart?

This list is largely from "History of the Dvaita School of Vedanta and its Literature," by Dr. B. N. K. Sharma, Motilal Banarsidass, New Delhi, 1981. Professor Sharma is a self-appointed authority who shows no formal initiation into the Madhva sampradaya. He has approached these subjects as a scholar more so than as a devotee. We cannot trust the work of Professor Sharma as he does not even show to be in the lineage of the Madhva sampradaya. He is a self-appointed authority with no proper right to pose an an authority on the Madhva sampradaya. His is a professional who makes his living publishing books and teaching Sanskrit. His Sanskrit scholarship does not qualify him to represent the Madhva sampradaya.

The books was written under the name Gaudapurnananda. Some Madhavas consider him different than Madhvacharya, but Madhvacarya was also known as Gaudapurnananda. The Gaudiyas consider the Gaudapurnananda of Sri Tattva Muktavali to be the same as Madhva, though such a view is not accepted by some Madhva scholars.