Sonic Yogi

The above-mentioned disciplic succession given by Kavi Karnapura has been accepted by Bhaktivinoda Thakura and this is evident from the following statement: ei samasta vakyadvara spasta pratita haya ye, Sri brahma sampradayai Sri Krsna Caitanya -dasadiganer guru-pranali. Sri Kavi Karnapura Gosvami ei anusarre drta kariya sviyakrta 'Gaura Ganodesa-dipika' ya guru-pranalir krama likhiyachen. Vedanta-sutra-bhasyakara Sri Vidyabhusana u sei pranalike sthira rakhiyacchen. Yahara ei pranalike asvikara karen, tahara ye Sri Krsna Caitanya-carananucara-ganer pradhana satru, ihate ara sandeha ki? "It is evident that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu belonged to the Brahma sampradaya, as it descends through Madhvacarya. Kavi Karnapura confirmed this line of disciplic succession in his Gaura Ganodesa-dipika, and the writer of the commentary of the Vedanta, Sri Baldeva Vidyabhusana, did so again (in his Prameya Ratnavali ). Is there any doubt that those who do not accept this line of disciplic succession are the principle enemies of the followers of Sri Krsna Caitanya?" (Bhaktivinoda Thakura - Sri Mahaprabhur-siksa, Ch.2) Bhaktivinoda further states in Chapter Two of Sri Mahaprabhur-siksa that anyone who does not accept these statements is an atheist: Sri Krsna Caitanya sampradaya svikara karata gopane guru- parampara siddha-pranali svikara Karen na, tahara kalir guptacara. Ihate sandeha ki? "Anyone who refuses to accept such statements is a promoter of atheism. Those who accept the authority of Sri Krsna Caitanya but secretly do not accept this disciplic succession of spiritual preceptors are actually agents of Kali. Can there be any doubt about this?" (Bhaktivinoda Thakura - Sri Mahaprabhur-siksa, Ch.2) Considering the position of Srila Kavi Karnapura, it is highly unlikely he would have simply fabricated a list of names to make up the parampara of Sri Caitanya. Kavi Karnapura was the son of Sivananda Sena and he was thus always associated with pure devotees and with the eternal associates of the Supreme Lord. The information that Kavi Karnapura gives us about the identities of Mahaprabhu's associates in Gaura-lila and their corresponding identities in Krsna-lila is extensive. It is therefore quite unlikely that having access to such confidential information as regards the eternal associates of the Lord that he would at the same time fabricate a fictitious parampara. As Kavi Karnapura has heard from senior devotees about the identities of Mahaprabhu's associates, he similarly heard from them regarding the parampara. In fact, although it may not be mentioned in any particular book, it is widely accepted that Sri Caitanya heard about the parampara of Madhavendra Puri at the time of his initiation from Isvara Puri, the disciple of Madhavendra. If what Kavi Karnapura had written in Gaura-ganodesa-dipika regarding the Gaudiya-sampradaya parampara was indeed false - then the senior Vaisnavas present on the planet at that time would indeed have objected to those statements. Yet such objections were never raised. On the contrary, the community of Vaisnavas and pure devotees of Sri Caitanya accepted the writings of Kavi Karnapura as bona-fide transcendental literature. Just as we have heard from our spiritual master about the lineage of our parampara, so it has always been the tradition among Vaisnavas that a spiritual master informs and enlightens his disciple regarding their parampara. The fact that there are also sometimes gaps in the parampara list of names, does not mean that there is an actual break in the parampara. This topic has been briefly explained by Bhaktivinoda in Jaiva-dharma as follows: sampradaya-pranali ki sampurna-rupa rakha haiyacche? madhye madhye ye sakala pradhana acarya haiyacchen, tahader namasakala sampradaya pranalite acche. "Is there a list of names of spiritual masters in the parampara given without any breaks? "From time to time, only the more important spiritual masters' names are included in these lists." ( Jaiva-dharma - Ch.13) Although envious persons or persons with a poor fund of knowledge are sometimes quick to criticize the Gaudiya-sampradaya for such apparent breaks in their parampara, the fact is that there are also apparent breaks in other recognized and established sampradayas such as the Madhva- sampradaya and the Ramanuja sampradaya. These apparent breaks are also acknowledged as existing by Madhva and Ramanuja followers, but these apparent breaks are not considered as defects in their respective sampradayas. In the books 'Sampradaya Paddhati' and 'Mani-manjari' written by Hrsikesa Tirtha and Narayana Panditacarya respectively (both direct disciples of Madhvacarya) the parampara of the Madhva sampradaya is given as follows: Hamsavatara, Brahma, Catursana, Durvasa, Jnanasindhu Tirtha, Garudavahana Tirtha, Kaivalya Tirtha, Jnanisa Tirtha, Para Tirtha, Satya-prajna Tirtha, Prajna Tirtha, Acyuta Preksa, and Madhvacarya. The gap between Acyuta Preksa (the guru of Madhva) and Prajna Tirtha (the previous acarya) is approximately 400 years. The reason for this gap is explained that, during this time the Vaisnavas in that area were being terrorized by the Naga Babas, and other militant followers of Sankaracarya. They had gone completely 'underground' as a result of it. After the time of Madhvacarya the social climate changed and the Vaisnavas were able to resume their normal behavior and lived openly in society, establishing Mathas, keeping parampara records, etc. A similar gap, but this time of approximately 3,000 years, is found in the Ramanuja sampradaya. The recognized parampara of the Ramanuja sampradaya from Visnu up to Ramanuja is as follows: Visnu, Laksmi, Visvaksena, Alvars, Nathamuni, Pundarikaksa, Rama Misra, Yamunacarya, and Ramanujacarya. From the Alvars (4000 BC to 2700 BC) to Nathamuni (584AD) there is a gap of more than 3,000 years. Despite this apparent gap the Ramanuja parampara is accepted by all Vaisnava scholars as a bona fide sampradaya. Also, it has been noted that during the period of the Alvars, only Nammalvar and Madhurakavi were connected as guru and disciple respectively. All the other ten Alvars were independent of each other. In other words they were not related in any way as guru and disciple. The point of contention wherein some persons try to establish that one must be in a disciplic succession that can produce a list of names of its parampara (guru to disciple) from the present day back to its very origin and prove the validity of those names by producing old texts where such names are mentioned is not actually necessary, nor is such a method accepted by other sampradayas as the ultimate pramana (proof). If it were so, then it would not be possible to factually prove an unbroken chain of disciplic succession in any sampradaya in the world today. Even those so-called sampradayas of Babajis in Vrndavana and Mayapura who claim to have an unbroken disciplic succession, can only prove such by creating imaginary literature and fabricating lies in support of their fallacious claims. Actually the evidence supporting the validity of any sampradaya via old books, historical records and all such related materials are for the most part empirical evidence and this is considered secondary to the most important type of evidence known as srota-pantha or having heard from previous acaryas. The mind and intelligence being material elements of this mundane world are prone to rational thought and want proof of everything by the process of empirical knowledge. Ultimately empirical knowledge is defective because it is gathered by the imperfect senses. The process of srota-pantha however is the process by which realized knowledge of the Absolute Truth is passed down from guru to disciple without any loss. This process depends not on empirical evidence to prove its validity, but the process of srota-pantha depends solely on hearing with faith. The empirical philosopher cannot accept the reality of faith because he or she has no experience of faith. Such less spiritually advanced persons do not know that faith (sraddha) is a spiritual substance more real than all the empirical knowledge of the mundane world combined. Faith allows the descending eternal knowledge (sabda-brahman) to flow through the realized spiritual master to the heart of a qualified disciple completely unobstructed by any material defect. The knowledge of the empiricist however is always wrought with troubles and defects because it is an ascending process and depends solely on the material mind, intelligence, and senses, which are imperfect. Those faithful devotees who have accepted the authority of the parampara mentioned by Kavi Karnapura in "Gaura-ganodesa-dipika" are factually the persons responsible for fulfilling the prediction of Sri Caitanya of spreading Krsna consciousness all over the world. This is indeed another valid proof (pramana) of the validity of their parampara, for as Krsna Dasa Kaviraja Gosvami states in Caitanya-caritamrta - only those who are empowered by Krsna can spread the holy name of Krsna: taha pravartaila tumi,--ei ta 'pramana' krsna-sakti dhara tumi,--ithe nahi ana On the other hand those who doubt the integrity of Kavi Karnapura and his followers such as Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura are to be compared to a thorn in the leg of the Supreme Lord and the association of such unfortunate persons should be rejected. <hr style="width: 200pt;" align="center" size="1" width="200">

I shall begin by describing the disciplic succession descended from Sripada Madhvacarya. Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe became the disciple of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Narayana. Brahma's disciple was Narada. Narada's disciple was Vyasa. Vyasa then transmitted transcendental knowledge to his disciple Sukadeva. Sukadeva taught the same knowledge to his many disciples and grand-disciples in this world. The famous Madhvacarya received initiation from Vyasa personally. Madhvacarya carefully studied all the Vedas from Vyasa, and later wrote his book 'Mayavada-sata-dusani', where he proved that the Absolute Truth is the Supreme Person, full of all transcendental qualities, and not the quality-less impersonal Brahman. Madhvacarya's disciple was the exalted Padmanabhacarya. Padmanabhacarya's disciple was Narahari. Narahari's disciple was Madhava-dvija. Madhava-dvija's disciple was Aksobhya. Aksobhya's disciple was Jaya Tirtha. Jaya Tirtha's disciple was Jnanasindhu. Jnanasindhu's disciple was Mahanidhi. Mahanidhi's disciple was Vidyanidhi. Vidyanidhi's disciple was Rajendra. Rajendra's disciple was Jayadharma Muni. Among Jayadharma Muni's disciples was Sriman Visnupuri, the famous author of the 'Bhakti-ratnavali'. Another disciple of Jayadharma was Brahmana Purusottama. Purusottama's disciple was Vyasa Tirtha, who wrote the famous book Sri Visnu-samhita. Vyasa Tirtha's disciple was Sriman Laksmipati, who was like a great reservoir of the nectar of devotional service. Laksmipati's disciple was Madhavendra Puri, a great preacher of devotional service. Madhavendra Puri was the incarnation of a kalpa-vrksa tree in the abode of Vraja. This tree bears as its fruits the mellows of servitude to Lord Krsna, friendship with Lord Krsna, parental love for Lord Krsna, and conjugal love for Lord Krsna. Madhavendra Puri's disciple was Sriman Isvara Puri Svami. Isvara Puri carefully understood the mellows of conjugal love for Lord Krsna, and was able to distribute that fruit to others. Sri Advaita Acarya displayed the sentiments of servitorship and friendship for the Lord, and Sriman Ranga Puri manifested the sentiment of parental love for Lord Krsna. Lord Caitanya accepted Sriman Isvara Puri as His spiritual master. The Lord proceeded to flood the entire world with spontaneous transcendental love for Krsna

Really? ISKCON is initiating brahmanas? How can a corporation initiate anyone? Aren't "gurus" in ISKCON doing the initiation?

Ok, so now lets blame Gurukripa for things he didn't do. It will take you ten thousand lifetimes to do the service Gurukripa did in just one.

One thing that the Krip and me have in common is that we both have blue eyes.

Isn't there some marble inlaid plaque on the Vrindavan Gurukula (orderd by Srila Prabhupada) thanking the Krip for 2.5 million $$$ for the building of the facility?

That is hearsay, undocumented rumor and has nothing legitimate to support that claim. It is one of them "Prabhupada said" stories that there is no verifiable evidence of. It's just an ISKCON rumor.

In Prabhupada's will, he appointed Gurukripa as the first name he mentioned as executor of his will. So. Prabhupada obviously had some special regard for Gurukripa Maharaja.

Not really. That stuff has all blown over. What is holding back ISKCON now is the enemy within. There are no legal issues challenging ISKCON today because of some dirty money that filtered in. The only thing holding back the KC movement is internal squabbling and splintering due to lack of cooperation. You keep trying to blow these old things out of proportion. These things are big problems only in your mind. They really aren't any kind of legal issues facing the movement today. Fact is that the KC movement is never going to become mainstream in today's scientific world. The KC movememt is a cult and always will be a cult for a counterculture of people who drop out of the mainstream society.

No. He was a "reformed" homo, not an "Openly" homo. Don't try to say that Prabhupada gave any position to any "openly" or practicing homosexual. That would be just wrong and you should know that by know.

I remember back in the day when Gurukripa was like a rock star in the eyes of new devotees like myself. I was actually afraid of Gurukripa. He looked like a thug to me. Yet, he had this mystique in ISKCON amongst new devotees like some famous Hollywood star or rock star. But, he did lead a great kirtan and walked around with his head high and very much pleased with himself. Gurukripa was just someone to be revered and feared as far as I was concerned. I certainly never wanted to meet him or talk to him personally. But, "the Krip" was cool. He was one of the most colorful characters in the history of ISKCON. I would love to set down and just talk for days to Gurukripa now. I think he is just as cool as can be.

This has got to be the coolest video of all time. ........ width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" "></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

No study of Vedānta is considered complete without a close examination of the Prasthāna Traya, the texts that stand as the three starting points. So, we cannot just say "is it in Vedanta Sutras". There is sruti, smrti and nyaya. The Brahma sūtras, also known as Vedānta Sūtras, constitute the Nyāya prasthāna, the logical starting point of the Vedānta philosophy (Nyāya = logic/order). No study of Vedānta is considered complete without a close examination of the Prasthāna Traya, the texts that stand as the three starting points. The Brahma Sutras are attributed to Badarayana. While the Upanishads (Śruti prasthāna, the starting point of revelation) and the Bhagavad-Gītā (Smriti prasthāna, the starting point of remembered tradition) are the basic source texts of Vedānta, it is in the Brahma sūtras that the teachings of Vedānta are set forth in a systematic and logical order.

Soldiers? Wouldn't that be a Ksatriya? Should a brahmana have "sensual power"? Did that refer to every devotee in the movement or the Ksatriyas? By the way, who were the Ksatriyas and what sort of weapons were they issued? I thought ISKCON was meant for creating a class of brahmanas?

I am starting to like you more already.

Yeah, I am real specimen that is for sure.

So, you are saying that Prabhupada appointed a gang of neophytes to imitate an acharya.

Who cares what them fools think. In western countries the academia in the universities all respect the Hare Krishna movement as an authentic religion from India. Amongst intellectuals and scholars the KC movement has well been established as a very legitimate spiritual movement. Who really gives a hoot what the anti-cult loonies think and say? Their opinion is worthless to the actual intellectual circles in western academia. Gurukripa's misadventures left no permanent stain on ISKCON. His antics have blown away like a bad fart at a GBC meeting. None of that stuff really matters to the future of ISKCON. The issues that today are holding ISKCON back have nothing to do with Gurukripa's scams in Japan over 30 years ago.

That Gurukripa stuff is old news. Nobody gives a hoot about that stuff anymore. What does matter now is the mess that the GBC is continuing to keep ISKCON in with the abject refusal to allow ISKCON out of it. The Gurukripa scams are old news. There are no criminal cases, laws suits or other such issues involving Gurukripa in Japan. That stuff is ancient history that today amounts to no more than hearsay.

Most often I played a role in the forums very much unlike the role I play in everyday life. I too am very thick-skinned and am not out to win any popularity contests. I still take the opportunity once in a while to play the antagonist like I did recently with my old friend Shiva (Gaurahari das) because I just really got tired of seeing him on the internet year after year trying to pose like some scholar and intellectual when I know darn good and well is he neither. So, I finally expressed my disgust with his arrogant and condescending manner by just coming right back at him. Anyway, I guess we both have a tendency to speak our minds a little harshly and undiplomatically. But, when I see that in someone else other than myself I see how really pathetic it is. Reading your writings here make me reflect on my history of being the forum bad guy who talks harshly not caring for the sensitivities of others. It kinda makes me want to change and quit being such a jerk. Maybe someday you will come to that realization also. But, for now you can play the know it all talking down to the other members and I will try get away from that stuff and be more humble and sincere. I hereby bequeath thee my honorary title as the forum TROLL. (but, I reserve the right to take it back on a moment's notice if I ever get the whim)

I probably know more about it than you do. I had some nice conversations with one of the top boys in the party in Japan. I knew about Gurukripa's scams back in the mid-seventies when most of ISKCON was totally ignorant of what he was doing in Japan.

OK, I am passing the torch to you. I don't need to be the forum nemesis and resident jerk anymore because I finally found someone more qualified than me. That's great. Being the forum bad guy gets old after a while. Good luck. Have fun with being unpopular and disliked. You are the right man for the job.

Or is this purport in error and the 5th canto figure correct?