Sonic Yogi

These varna designations are not something intrinsic to the soul or mind. You aren't kshatriya, vaishya or sudra if you aren't working within a varnashrama system Like, if I say I am a doctor but I have no training and no work as a doctor then that is just an illusion. One's guna and karma would get one a position as a ksatriya or vaishya etc. if in fact one lived in a varnashrama society of a Vedic king. What it means is that we all have an acquired nature - a guna or combination of the three gunas. A person in the mode of goodness is of the brahmincal nature, though if he doesn't have a position in a Vedic culture as a brahmana then how can we say he is a brahmana? A ksatriya is predominantly in the mode of passion - raja guna. The Vaishya is in the mixed mode of passion and ignorance. The sudra is appointed his work as a sudra because he is predominantly in the mode of ignorance - tama guna. However, in the western world things are very mixed-up. A teacher might be in the mode of ignorance even though in the Vedic system a teacher would come from the brahminical class in the mode of goodness. So, in the western world we cannot say that one's karma or work is correctly reflective of his guna. The priests are supposed to be brahmans but we can see that in western world most priests are meat-eaters in the mode of ignorance. So, without a proper Vedic king and a cabinet of brahmans, it is totally ridiculous to try and compare western people in divisions of labor and castes. That is basically what the caste system has done. It let's ignorant sudras pose as brahmans while some persons in the mode of goodness are labled as sudras. As such the caste system of India has become just a bigoted, prejudiced system of false designations based upon some family traditions.

Illusions are real man. <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

NOD CH.2 The Vedic varnashrama system requires to be implemented by a class of brahmanas who guide the King in administrating the kingdom. Without a King and a qualified cabinet of brahmanas to guide him there can be no varnashrama system. ISKCON being a headless society managed by a GBC that is a mix of sannayasis and ghrastas cannot properly practice varnashram. There is no military leader as King in ISKCON.

I hope you voted Democrat!!!

I remember when these men were sincere and trusted and loved by Srila Prabhupada. I don't think they are trying to be evil. If they were so evil and nasty I think Srila Prabhupada in all his wisdom would have seen through the facade. They are just neophytes that pretended to be advanced devotees. Obviously, the idea of an "advanced devotee" was a very naive and simplistic notion in ISKCON back in them days. No, I am the demon false devotee. I have plenty of proof of that. They are all more sincere than me. At least that is the way a humble person is supposed to think. I am not humble, but I can't even fool myself about being some authentic Vaishnava. I am not even close.

I don't buy that. That would be Srila Prabhupada admitting that he made a lot of big mistakes. I don't think Srila Prabhupada made a lot of big mistakes. When he gave sannyasa to Adi-keshava das he supposedly told him that at some time in the future he might not want to be a sannyasa but for the time being as the TP in New York it gave him the authority he needed to be a strong leader there. Prabhupada knew that some of them would not make it when he gave them sannyasa. this claim that Srila Prabhupada mandated no more sannyasis in ISKCON is not supported by any sort of official proclamation from Srila Prabhupada. If we buy your conclusions then we have to think of Srila Prabhupada as a man with bad judgement who made many mistakes. That is certainly no way to think of Srila Prabhupada. The only thing that needs to be changed in ISKCON is the policy of rejecting the official proclamations that Srila Prabhupada signed.

Raghu if you are so concerned about contributing to the betterment of mankind then instead of fault-finding the Hare Krishna people maybe you should become a caste brahmin activist and work to improve and reform the caste brahmin culture of India? Caste brahmins in India have been degraded to a very low level. Maybe you should work on helping caste brahmins become actual brahmins instead of trying to discredit and demean western devotees who have adopted the worship of Lord Krishna? Get your own caste brahmin house in order before you go slinging mud at the Hare Krishna sect. When you and all your caste brahmins have actually become more than sudras wearing a thread that they got without qualification, then you can worry about cleaning house of all the Hare Krishna dirt in the world. Until then, you are really just a fraud. If you were a brahmin studying the Vedas you certainly wouldn't be here in the forum 12 hours a day bashing the Hare Krishna people. In fact, you are probably not even a Hindu or a caste brahmin but some irate Hare Krishna reject that just wants to taunt the Hare Krishna people by acting the role of some caste brahmin showing the flaws in the Gaudiya parampara.

So? Who cares what you think? I certainly don't. Write a letter to your congressman or something. I am not the clerk of the whiners department. Your opinion means nothing. Does the barking of a dog stop the caravan from passing? All us Hare Krishnas are riding our camels right on by you and your pack of barking dog caste brahmins.

Well, I like Beggar a lot. He is a really sweet soul. We do have some acquaintance. Maybe I mentioned "ritvik" somewhere and his BVDs got in a bunch. I don't now. I truly love the guy. But, I guess I just worked too hard today to come home to mockery on the forum. He was joking with me. All is good. But, with what little energy I have left after a long day at work I wanted to relax with some forum chat and then my buddy Beggar mocks me. I was just a little hurt and not really up to all the fun and games. I don't have a lovely supportive wife like he does. I have had to raise three kids by myself and I am not really all the fun and games that I sometimes appear to be on the forums. love ya' Beggar.... You are one of my favorite peeps.....

Unlike your good self, I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I work a full time job. I still have a 15 year old daughter at home that I am raising alone as I have done for the last 13 years. So, excuse me if I don't have 24 hours a day to hang out on the forum answering all your trite challenges here on the forum. I have a few minutes a day to waste on this forum. You should feel honored that I pay any attention to you. I don't pay attention to many people. I just don't have time.

Then you just exposed that you are neither a Vaishnava or a brahmana. When you grow up to become an adult you might understand.

That is not what I said Mr. Spaghetti sauce. I said they worshiped the pure Vaishnava. Worshiping the Vaishnava is much higher than worshiping Vishnu. What???? You think you can worship Vishnu directly? Vishnu doesn't accept your pathetic, filthy service. Vishnu loves those who serve his pure devotees. Those who try to worship him directly are just ignored by Vishnu.

I hope mocking me isn't going to become your latest obsession. Surely you can come up with something more original than that?

That would all be good and well, but the problem is that ISKCON will be just a page in the bankruptcy records within the next 10 years.

Don't get your diapers all in a bunch. You and raghu both seem to be very judgmental and totally overlooking all the service, devotion and love that persons like Kirtanananda Swami dedicated to Srila Prabhupada. I came from the Prabhupada era. I don't appreciate outsiders and newcomers coming in and passing judgment on disciples of Srila Prabhuapda that were very dear to him. Godbrothers can can argue like brothers and I am cool with that. I don't appreciate newbs and outsiders coming in and talking about some senior devotees that hit a few bumps in the road. I am talking about foregiveness. Anyone that can't forgive a devotee his shortcomings is no devotee of Gaura-Nitai. KMA....

You forgot to mention : Forgiveness is a brahminical power that this "raghu" obviously does not possess being a non-brahmana. He can't forgive and see the greatness of Krishna bhakti because he is a sudra.

The Krip says he doesn't think Prabhupada wanted any ritvik system to succeed him. I am not so sure. How many times did Prabhupada tell his senior men "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"? What part of "don't change anything" is up for change? Obviously, stopping the ritvik system was a major change in ISKCON. No devotee should have to suffer through a fallen guru. That should never happen in the Gaudiya sampradaya. To much is made of the formalities of intiation. But, I ain't gonna start arguing ritvik with anyone. I gave up on ISKCON. I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years.

If I would have said that I would have gotten banned from the forum. There are many "traditions" in India that deserve to be rejected. In India's long history many "traditions" have been created, but that doesn't make them right. In my family we have a tradition of having Pizza on Friday night. If my kids break this family tradition does that make them evil? Many traditions in India falsely represent themselves as spiritual or Vedic when in fact they are many times just bigoted, racist, prejudiced practices of pseudo-religionists who make there living as professional Hindu priests. Some of those traditions are no more spiritual than watching the Superbowl every year with the friends and family. (which I don't do) But, it is an American tradition. I guess it is evil to reject the tradition. In some aboriginal tribes it is tradition to take the old grandfather out and hunt him down in the forest, kill him and eat him. Sometimes tradition is just a very stupid thing.

Caste brahmanas don't study the Vedas. They study the market for professional priests.

duh. If I couldn't get past the contradictions then why do I still study the books? Your logic is missing a critical component; signs of intelligence.