ranjeetmore

Sant,the vaishnavas have EXHAUSTIVELY provided evidence and a much better solution to Eternal existence than merging into Brahm,time and again. You JUST CANNOT OVERLOOK the truths revealed by Sri Ramanuja,Sri Vallabha,Sri Madhva,Sri Nimbarka and most recently and expertly by Sri Gauranga.There is absolutely no loopholes in their doctrines.They match every revelation of the vedas.Merging into brahm is no longer even considered by the fortunate ones who get to know any of these doctrines from the brahm nishta gurudeva. On the other hand,there has not been a single shakta or shaiva who can reconcile all the sastras or the vedanta singly,even with their chosen doctrines.This is just fact.

It INDEED is amazingly detailed. Firstly, So,can you tell me the conclusion of this Devi bhagavatam ?? secondly, Tell me ONE SINGLE theory which fits in with the vedic revelations. The eternal truth has three aspects,as mentioned in the vedas. One is Jeevatma. The other is jada maya. and the third is Sri Bhagavan Who is the controller of these two. Now who is this shakti who is the origin of BRahm itself ?? Tell me just one vedic statement describing this shakti,who is the origin of brahm.In the devi bhagavata,Sri KRsna is said to be raso vai saha, He is Bhagavan,it is said. So you should tell me just one vedic statement stating that Shakti is the origin of this brahm,Who is Rasa Himself. Just ONE.

if you are not able to solve this answer,why are you here? what's the point of even coming here ?? eat.drink and be merry. On the other hand,the vedas say that He can be known.So i will accept the vedas over your views.I'm sorry but that's how it is.

I have to admit,I'm very fascinated by this Durgadevi. She is sometimes called internal potency and sometimes bahiranga.I need to know more about Her form in vaikuntha as well as the one in the material universe. Can someone kindly provide the info from bhagavtam ?? Here,in pune,Iskon refuses to sell single cantos.The entire set is quite expensive............

Yes,sant,you are very right. The shaivite and the Shakta texts have absolutely no vision regarding Nirguna Brahm and saguna Brahm.They are confounding and pointless.They lead nowhere.At the end,you will just be confused,whether to worship devi or Her nirguna form.But if She is nirguna,why is She called SHE /?? These texts have no support of the vedas.They are mostly very misleading. However,Saguna saakar Brahm is identified as Sri Krsna.This is accepted by the four(or six) acharyas and hence,this is true. Most importantly,the most illustrious and important acarya,Srila Veda Vyasa has accepted this in his commentary on Vedanta-sutra.

I have no doubt this springs from your own variation on Advaita. You mean to say that after liberation,there is non-existence(?) or just inertness.Everything becomes ONE. But this does not seem to conform with our inherent nature.Can you refrain from performing a single function,whether in mind or senses,relating to the bodyeven for a second ?? No.These functions are all inherent in all jeevas.This is direct perception.Whereas,your concept of mukti completely overlooks this undeniable truth.Instead,these functions are eternally fulfilled in the Vaikunthas. "Sada pashyanti surayah tad vishnoh paramam padam."-(1) "Satyam Jnayanam anantam brahm." -(2) That para brahm has infinte Paraphernalia. The vedas state that neither sun,nor moon,nor anything material can enter that region of para brahm. This means that,"There is a region,a space,eventhough infinte,which accomodates brahm and His paraphernalia." What is that place ?? As stated in (1). Remember one thing and one thing only. Each and every Jeevatma is searching for ananda.Every inch of the material universe if teeming with living organisms,in search of happiness,constantly.As long as the jeevatma attains ananda,it doesn't matter if this ananda is derived from serving the feet of Saguna saakar brahm. "Sukham me bhuyat,dukham me ma bhut". Every one wants sukha.No one wants dukha. The doctrines which do not satisfy this condition are not to be considered.I'm sorry to point out that your theory offers no solution whatsoever. Whereas one of the great acharyas has simply stated. "Jeevera swarupa hoye krishnera nitya dasa." The jeevatma,by default,is a servant of Sri KRsna.Why ? BEcoz sri Krsna is ananda and jeevatma is searching only for ananda. "Sastra veda kahe sambandha,abhidheya,prayojana- krsna,krsna bhakti, prema,ye teen mahadhon." The eternal relationship with Sri KRsna.The sadhana for attaining Him and the fruit,Prema bhakti,are the three things described in the sastras.There is nothing else. In the entire vedic literature,there is absolutely nothing else described.

Primate,why are you speculating so much ? Do you know what speculation did to kalidas?? The ego makes it very easy for a person to believe his speculation to be true.Kalidasa openly declared that Lord Shiva got his wife drunk,etc. This is very harmful. Sri Krsna is the basis of Nirguna Brahm.Pratishtha. P.S. The exact meaning of the vedas is not for us to decide.It is to be realised only after realising Bhagavan.After all,the richas of the vedas,are the eternal attendants in Goloka.This is not fiction.Understanding Sri Krsna alone leads to the knowledge of the vedas. Otherwise,you will just end up forming false theories and getting more confused.Your theories can never be applied practically and are not accepted by any acarya.Please stop expounding them.They are confusing you.

I am following Sri shankara"s advice,"ACCEPT the statements found in the tamasic and rajasic scriptures that CORROBORATE with the truth as revealed in the vedas and the bhagavtam.Discard everything else." So,we if we come across a pot of earth,we should go through it for the gold coins.Taking out the gold,you should throw away the pot completely. For instance,in the Devi bhagavtam,it is said that,"Shakti has assigned Sri Krsna His place in Goloka region." GIVE ME ONE SINGLE PROOF FROM THE VEDIC SCRIPTURES ABOUT THIS SHAKTI. There is no shakti phakti,who is the origin of Sri KRsna.Also,Sri Radhika,is mentioned as one of the Five prakriti devis,yet,in the other place,She is stated to be the most beautiful and important amongst others and to be of the nature of Nirakaar(beyond sattva,rajas,tamas). The notes by some tantrik only add to the confusion.Don't read the purana further.You will surely go mad.

42-57. Let you divide yourself in parts and turn into smaller Virâts in every universe. Brahmâ will spring from your navel and will create the cosmos. From the forehead of that Brahmâ will spring eleven Rudras for the destruction of the creation. But they will all be parts of S’iva. The Rudra named Kâlâgni, of these eleven Rudras, will be the destroyer of all this Vis’vas (cosmos). Besides, from each of your sub-divisions, the Vis’nu will originate and that Bhagavân Visnu will be the Preserver of this Vis’vu world. I say that under my favour you will always be full of Bhakti towards Me and no sooner you meditate on Me, you will be able to see My lovely form. There is no doubt in this; and your Mother, Who resides in My breast, will not be difficult for you to see. Let you remain here in ease and comfort. I now go to Goloka. Saying thus S’ri Krisna, the Lord of the world disappeared. Going to His own abode He spoke instantly to Brahmâ and S’ankara, skilled in the works of creation and destruction:-- “O Child Brahmâ! Go quickly and be born in parts from the navels of each of the smaller Virâts that will arise from the pores of the Great Virât. O Child Mahâdeva! Go and be born in parts from the forehead of each Brahmâ in every universe for the destruction of the creation; (but be careful that you not forget) and perform austerities for a long, long time. O son of the Creator Brahmâ! Thus saying, the Lord of the Universe remained silent. Brahmâ and S’iva, the auspicious, bowing to the Lord, went to their own duties. On the other hand, the great Virât that lay floating in the waters of the Brahmânda sphere, created from his every pore each smaller Virât. That youth Janârdan of the form of the Great Cosmos, wearing yellow garment of the bluish-green colour of the Durba grass, lay sleeping pervading everywhere. Brahmâ took his birth in His navel. He, then, after his birth, began to travel in that navel-lotus and in the stem of the lotus for one lakh yugas. But he could not find out the place whence the lotus or its stem had sprung up. O Nârada! Then your father became very anxious and came back to his former place and began to meditate on the lotus feet of S’ri Krisna. Then, in meditation, with his introspective eye, he first saw the small Virât, then the endless great Virât lying on the watery bed, in whose pores the universes are existing and then he saw the God S’ri Krisna in Goloka with Gopas and Gopis. He then began to praise the Lord of Goloka when He granted boons to your father, and he began to do the work of creation Oh great rascal,Kaisersose,Kindly consider the above information.These are the events leading to "Brahma sanghita" as mentioned in a 'non-vaishnava' scripture.

Whatever post#24 is(commentary ?),atleast some ONE of Ramakrishna's disciples are passing on what he said REALLY(partially)

Kaisersose,you rascal. What do you have to say to this ?

what exactly is post no 24??A part of devo bhagvatam??

Your a very big rascalThis is a concocted text or translation. First and foremost,Sri Ramachandra,walkin in the forest,searching madly for Sita,has been accounted for in the Ramayana clearly as "Leela". In the Ramacharita manasa,Uma(devi) is said to have become deluded when She sees her husband,Lord Shankara,bowing before such a 'madman'. She thinks,"My husband is Jagadisa,Lord of this universe.He is jagadvanda,eliglibe to be worshipped by this universe,why is He prostrating before an ordinary human and calling him "Sat.Chit.Ananda BRahm ??I will test him" BUT In the SAME ramyana,Sri Shankara later states,"Parvati,you are an excellent actress.You have no doubts in your heart,yet your acting like a ignorant fool.You are bhagavati." he says. JUST SEE THE DIFFERENCE. Ignorant persons,with absolutely NO REALISATION will write any nonsense.But the mahatmas are the ones who can pierce the transcendental Leela.Uma/Shankara are never shown down in the Vaishnava scriptures. Foolish people,exactly like the followers of petty lords/leaders,fabricate any nonsense,write some gibberish to glorify their favourite deities.

I meant,Sri Krsna Says,"I "PERVADE" this universe".

In the same way,the Lord pervades the universe in His nirguna AS WELL as saguna Aspect,yet He maintains His supremacy and Knowledge. Please reflect upon the verse staing that there are TWO birds.One is eating the fruit and the other is WATCHING(noting down karmas) and is unattached. There is no question of the Supersoul being the soul.There are TWO birds.

I "PERVADE" this entire universe. I pervade the body called Ranjeet More.Yes.The Jeevatma means,"One who is cit(consious/Jeeva) and who spreads this consciousness all over the body(Jeevit)" So am i the body ? No.

I mean to say that the eskimo had a propensity to wards meat eating in his previous life.This attachment is carried forward,obviously,his caste being low and all,and life,very miserable.

There happens to a perfect,faultless law called the law of Karma,governed by the Supersoul Who is seated within every living entity.Now,this Supersoul,being Himself Infinte and omniscient and omnipotent,allots the various bodies to the living entities according to their karma.If you do not accept this,you must join the 'evolutionists' ranks. If you DO accept this,an eskimo being compelled to eat meat is justified.Relativity has absolutely nothing to do with this.Infact,the position of the various living entities are solely dependent on their sanchit karma.A limited person like you or me may only view it as random,but actually,it is a consequential and fair system.

Deva means being of light. The word Deva is generally referred to the inhabitants of devaloka,ajanaja devloka,etc. You,I and everyone have got the bodies of devas for infinite times. "Surpatir brahmam padam yachate." Svarga Samrat Indra also hankers after the post of Brahmadeva.Their bodies are temporal,just like the humans.

It is true that God Himself becomes the material creation.This creation is Maya shakti vishisht Sri Krsna. BUT This doesn't mean that the creation and Brahm is non different in original Swarupa.If this were so,Brahm would have been comprehensible by the material intelligence.But this is not so- creation is mayic and Bhagavan is Divya. The vedanta clearly DIFFERENTIATES between Para brahm and Jeeva. It states,"Jagad vyapar varjam" The Supreme Person CREATES,ENTERS and DESTROYS the entire material manifestation.This is why He is different from everyone else(Jeevas) This is in accordance with one of the definitions of brahm in the vedas,"By Whom,The material creation is PROJECTED,MAINTAINED and DESTROYED,He is Brahm." This above description comes in a conversation held between Varuna and his son,Bhrgu. It is very easy to find the evidence of Narayana to be that Person. THus saying that the Supreme Truth is indifferent in nature with the jada creation is wrong.It does not conform with the vedanta(He ENTERS the creation. and DESTROYS it.) This means that the Supreme Person is BEYOND the reach of prakriti even.This itself is enough to establish that Supreme Person as eternal.There is therefore No question of His 'originating' from Nirguna brahm.In fact,ALL the Visible,Invisible(prakata,aparakata) emanations have their origin in the Supreme Person.If ALL of the visible,Invisble emanations were from that One Supreme Person ALONE,it is VERY wrong to consider that He emanated from Something or some tattva(for it would be speculation). Post # 122 throws ample light on this issue. P.S. : I am very very grateful towards the GVs for providing verses from the BG according to the context.I am very unable to have such knowledge of the divine song.

This Sri Isopanishad mantra is VERY VERY important and incredibly relevant. This refers to Sri Bhagavan.Remember the Vedas glorify the Bhagavan aspect most.This saguna feature of Bhagavan manifests very opposing qualities. He is within each and every atom and yet He is without evrything in Goloka. It is very relevant to consider ,"Purnasya purna.." verse. It states that "If you take whole out of the whole,He still remains WHOLE." Thus,Primate,the notion that Saguna Brahm cannot be simultaneously present within every atom and yet still be present in His entirety outside of everything,is wrong. Also,Primate,I would like to point out that the verse,"Yada parshya pashyate rukma varnam..." is very rightfully explained as,"The Supreme Person,who is the source of Brahm" for the concerned acharya clearly quoted it when stating that,"Sri Krsna is the basis of Nirguna Brahm." You may find it very hard to believe but the Advaitins INTERPRET (1)the vedic mantras.It can be resolved only by scholarly debate and not by us.But i have full faith that the meaning is the above one and not,"The Person Who has His source in Brahm." (1). This can be clarified further: The advaitins always consider the word 'aatma' as Brahm.But,according to the context,the word 'atma' has been used seldom for Brahm also.i.e. Atma is used for denoting 'paramatma' Such considerations obviously lead to the confusion of 'Brahm is atma.' But you may raise the objection,"How do WE know that this atma is supposed to denote Paramatma only ??" and you may accuse us of hypocrisy for Vaishnavas state that the vedic meanings are to be taken directly. This has been resolved by Srila Veda Vyasa himself in the vedanta,"Na anuh.Atah shruteh hritichen na" He states that the Jeevatma is Anu/atomic.Sometimes the paramatma is referred as Atma in the Vedas and hence the Jeevatma shouldn't be considered as infinite due to this. In this same way,an advaitic translation of the above verse can very well be as,"The person Who has His origin in Brahm."

EVEN if We believe that Nirguna Brahm is NOT the of the effulgence of Sri KRsna,then also,it doesn't make much of a difference. Remember,it's not about WHo came first Sri Krsna or the Nirguna Brahm.Sri KRsna is eternal and so is the Nirguna Brahm. They are the same. Dve vava Brahmano rupe Murtancaiva Amurtanca. He is SIMULTANEOUSLY with form and Formless.It is VERY wrong to consider the Nirguna Brahm as different or as something very inferior to Sri Krsna.Same is the case with considering Sri Krsna as an emanation from Nirguna Brahm. Nirguna Brahm never did and never will manifest any of the energies that are found In Sri Bhagavan.Nirguna Brahm has only two tasks.It maintains it's swarupananda and manitains it's position of supremacy(satta matra brahm). Sri Bhagavan performs every possible feat. The vedas state Kartum akartum anyatha kartum samarth. He can perform any task,anyhow and under any circumstances or even in reverse order,in time or any circumstance. It obviously refers to Sri Bhagavan,for He manifests all these infinitude of energies.Thus,whenever the vedas state about the extraordinary feats,qualities and features about Brahm,it refers to Sri Krsna. For example,the svetasvatara upanishad describes how "He has no legs,but He is the fastest runner.He has no arms,yet He can catch anything." This refers to the extraordinary qualities of Sri KRsna.He can perform anything even without a form.

I'm sorry to say but This is speculation.Kindly do not apply logic further.

I bow down to kali(Jagadamba),who is repeatedly proclaimed by even the bhaktas to be the universal mother,who slaughtered the demons who offended a bhagavata and who serves Sri KRsna as her Original form in Vaikuntha(Uma).That Uma is yogamaya,guileless,faultless and Pure. Tulsidasa states, "So dasi raghuveer ki, Samujhe mithya sopy" Jagadamba is Mayadevi.She is Durga(prison house).She is punishing evryone for they have turned their faces from Sri Bhagavan. Visnumayeti samsthitah. She is Vishnumaya.Kali is just a destructive form of prakriti,just as Lord Shivas,in the material universes,have put ash all over themselves,with snakes in their necks and horrendous companions. But the Lord Sadashiva,Who is the Origin of the innumerable Lord Shivas,is Pure,and a personality of Godhead.He fosters the religion of bhakti by expounding misleading doctrines and is the Supreme Bhakta.Naturally,the Uma by His side,corresponds to His being.

Primate, Kindly consider the point i have tried to convey. You must be also aware of the Krsna stuti provided by Sri Shankaracharya.It goes,"Yamuna nikat tatasthith..." This REEKS of prema bhakti. Further,in prabodha sudhakara,Sri Shankaracharya,openly proclaims that "I do not want the pleasures of any svarga ! I do not want mukti ! That is for fools ! I just want to be completely engrossed in thinking about this Govinda's lotus feet." This only confirms the faultless statements of the vaishnavas over the ages,"Mukti is just a drop of bliss compared to the premananda of sri KRsna." Due to such glaring evidences,do we accept Sri Krsna bhakti to be the most beneficial path. One more relevant thing is: MERCY.The vedas are crystal clear about one thing : If you get His mercy,you can cross this maya like a mere puddle of water in the way.Otherwise forget it. His mercy alone can solve every problem and all the mayic diseases.All of the Vaishnavacharyas stress on this fact.Whereas Shankara's Brahm is unable to perform any such task of giving mercy,simply because He is Nirguna and Niraakara. Let's concentrate upon the most basic step in each path : Purification of the Mind-antah karana shuddhi. Be it jnana,yoga or bhakti,the cleansing of the mind is needed. "shama dama uparathas thitikshu"- Shankaracharya stating the steps. The SECOND(dama) step is : purify your mind. Lets hear what Shankaracharya himself has to say,"Shudhayati naa antaraatma krshna padambhoj bhaktimriteh." - prabodha shudhakara. "Without remembrance/bhakti of Sri Krsna's lotus feet,it is not possible to cleanse the mind." The basics in all spiritual paths itself is dependent on bhakti.When we quote Vaishnavacharyas,it is termed dogmatic.That's why Sri Shankaracharya's works are produced. You are a very intelligent person.You have immdiately grasped all the consistencies(remember you said,"Now it makes a little sense".). I have no problem if the nirguna feature of the Lord is worsipped by people like you.