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Posts posted by bhaktatraveler


    Can we unanimously agree universally, across all differences, that Capital Punishment must be the results for canabilism? TBD.




    Men Accused of Eating Girl's Body Parts

    ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (Feb. 4, 2009) - Two young men — one of them a butcher — have been arrested on suspicion of killing a 16-year-old girl and eating parts of her body, Russian prosecutors said Wednesday.

    The girl disappeared after leaving her home in St. Petersburg for school on Jan. 19, city prosecutor's spokesman Sergei Kapitonov said. He said she was killed that night, and that body parts believed to be hers were found in plastic bags scattered around the city.

    Police arrested Yuri Mozhnov, a florist, and Maxim Golovatskikh, a street-market butcher and one-time psychiatric patient on Saturday, Kapitonov said.

    The suspects, both 19, knew the victim, and she accompanied them voluntarily to an apartment rented by another acquaintance on the day she went missing, Kapitonov said. Prosecutors believe they drowned the girl in a bathtub.

    "The arrestees said they ate the girl's body parts because they were hungry," Kapitonov said. They told investigators they baked some body parts with potatoes, he said.

    They allegedly disposed of her bagged remains in garbage containers and bodies of water. Bags with body parts were found in at least two locations, he said. Both men are being held on suspicion of murder.

    <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com><st1:place w:st=<st1:City w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">St. Petersburg</st1:City></st1:place> news Web site fontanka.ru cited a top city prosecutor, Andrei Lavrenko, as saying investigators believe the suspects decided to kill the victim after an argument erupted between her and Golovatskikh.

    Moscow-based tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda on Wednesday cited a department head at the St. Petersburg forensic medicine office, Vitaly Sysoyev, as saying the body parts had not been positively identified as those of the girl, who he said was still officially listed as missing.

    Kapitonov said he was unaware of that.

    Lavrenko said investigators found traces of blood when they ripped out plumbing and floorboards in the apartment, fontanka.ru reported.

    Mozhnov was convicted of robbery in 2005, Kapitonov said. He said Golovatskikh had been treated in the past at a psychiatric hospital.


    NO! Capitol punishment in not canabilism......BG 1.36


    According to Vedic injunctions there are six kinds of aggressors: 1) a poison giver, 2) one who sets fire to the house, 3) one who attacks with deadly weapons, 4) one who plunders riches, 5) one who occupies another's land, and 6) one who kidnaps a wife. Such aggressors are at once to be killed, and no sin is incurred by killing such aggressors. Such killing of aggressors is quite befitting for any ordinary man, but Arjuna was not an ordinary person. He was saintly by character, and therefore he wanted to deal with them in saintliness. This kind of saintliness, however, is not for a kṣatriya. Although a responsible man in the administration of a state is required to be saintly, he should not be cowardly




    Yes, Srila Prabhupada should have kicked out the entire Mott Street boys club early on in New York: Kirtanananda, Hayagriva, Umapati and their various boyfriends... instead, he gave Kirtananda the first sannyasa in our movement and made Hayagriva his chief editor... then we had Bhavs and a few other fags that made life miserable for a lot of folks in Iskcon...


    Fast forward to present.... well... remember, this was just a blessing conveyed by an email to two people who are at most just congregational members of a local preaching center. So... relax a little... they were not initiated or given important jobs at the BBT... :rolleyes:


    I think you confuse making the best use of a bad bargan with purposfully cherry picking the helpers that came.


    I find this a little curious. Maharaja acknowledged human love as a reflection of the Lord's love for us and wished that these two people's love may become perfected some day. And suddenly he's performing a gay marriage by remote control! :eek2:


    Here's something he wrote to a Godbrother after hearing some Godbrothers accused him of gaming the system, pushing an agenda:



    Okay, let 'im have it!


    Let them have at it? OK! But that is as far as we in ISKCON should go!(I say we metaphorically speaking) An ISKCON sannyasa/guru(sic) giving official sanction by attending as the priest is just wrong.


    You are just to funny sometimes, LOL, LOL, LOL.


    This adam guy, begger and Theist are the only ones with a brain.


    Have none of you read the books? Have you not heard Srila Prabhupada on the subject? You confuse gentlemanly behavior with acceptance from Prabhupada. Look at a conversation with ginsberg, no not with ginsberg but ABOUT him. Prabhupada HATES homosex, He spits!!! I've heard Him say they are not in the varnasrama society. So that much has to be there and marrage IS in DVD.


    Who says ANYONE doesn't get Krsna, nonsence! But some need to be a little distance away from DVD most of the time. Every one can enter the temple for artik, but gays on the alter? Hell no!, in the pujari? Hell no!, in the kitchen? Hell no! out back sweeping? yes!


    The answer in is the Caitanya Caritamrta when Jaganatha Misra has a big party for the birth of Lord Caitanya and all classes of men come to make offerings. I can not remember where it is and my folio is gone to a dead hard drive. The mention is that these people had there own method of income(I think they were intertainers) and lived separate for greater society. Maybe someone with a folio could look for it.


    Hare Krsna, RCB




    Hi, kids, hope you are chanting your rounds. Great news!!! Times have changed and I will now perform Gay Marriages!




    Prabhupada was out of touch with modern times but I have a Phd so I'm know better. But I'm still loyal and will kick out any of those people contaminated by the Evil Gaudiya Math.




    Wow. just think about it, I'm one of last Zonal Gurus still kickin. Yep, you gotta change things if you want to survive. And I don't fall for all this hocus pocus mystical stuff and you shouldn't either. Just go back to college and graduate school and you can become like me.


    You are just to funny sometimes, LOL, LOL, LOL.


    My outrage is not directed at homosexuals it is directed at those that while claiming to be Prabhupada's representative would so flagrantly go against his expressed instructions for HIS society.


    No homosex in Goloka so it appears he is taking his followers to Gayloka. Bhavananda will be there with his followers and together they will no doubt have fun in the forest with their own pecular imitation madhurya rasa pastimes.


    We agree on that one!




    Bottom line for me is I just don't really give a hoot anymore what these ISKCON gurus do, or what the GBC does. I have written off the whole lot and threw in the towel on trying fight back.


    Who cares?


    It's about money, don't you understand?


    If Hridayananda Maharaja caters to the gays then that will pay off for him because actually gay people are usually quite educated and successful professional people who will donate to their guru Hridayananda Maharaja and support his typical jet-set lifestyle like all the rest of the ISKCON gurus.


    Why beat on a horse once the horse is dead?

    It just doesn't make any sense.


    Let the children play.



    I do not think anyone is over the top on this subject, just that someone posted and the rest replied. As for mercy, in the pastime of the birth of Lord caitanya.....Prabhupada mentions that those that were homo's came also to give worship to Him but lived separately from the greater part of society. I can't remember where it is exactly.




    CB, just don't confuse this person with KB you old friend from Badger because they are not the same person.

    KB has been working six days a week for the last year and he doesn't really spend that much time in his cabin.


    KB is certainly not feeling any empty feelings.

    He is quite the contented fellow and enjoying his simple life with this kids.


    Never mind then!


    Are you in touch with him? Would make sence, you two both have similar inclinations I think. Nice to hear he's OK, the initial post had me worried for a second.


    On the other hand it shows the impersonal nature of devotees in Alachua. That so many just stay in their little lives's away from the expressed desire by Prabhupada that we congregate together, live, worship, work as one for sankirtan. Go figure?




    These were the original homosexual in the universe and they were created out of Lord Brahma's ass and then they came at Lord Brahma wanted homosex with him.

    So, homos are part of the universal play.

    They were created out of the body of Lord Brahma.


    Straight people can't fathom that homos can also be interested in spiritual life despite their nasty sexual orientation.


    But in the END........ is not illicit sex of any time no better than the other?


    I prefer women.


    But, hey, if some guy prefers to have sex with other men then that does not make my illicit sex with women any less sinful.


    Which is the lesser of the two evils?

    Is one really lesser than the other?


    There are varying degrees of sin. Not all sin is equal! Duh! One is lessor than the other! Sex between a husband and wife(male/female) is not the same as sex with a prostitute(male/female) is not the same as sex with another male!


    I have not said that they can not be Krsna conscious, but Prabhupada says they can make no or very little advancement. He uses the word 'nil' and in other places Prabhupada religates them to the lowest varna, not human, less than sudra! Everything has a place, not all places are equal spiritually or materially.


    "Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil."(END)






    Emptiness is overwhelming. Whatever I do spiritually I cannot connect through it, e it dhyan, fasting, praying japa etc. Do others feel so? Or it's only me that feels this. Can anyone suggest good ways or hints to receive divine light? Thank you.


    Try personal contact with devotees of at least a similar nature. You stay in your cabin to much and have a 'fever' get out once in a while, mix it up in person!


    I'm you huckleberry, come on down!


    Caturbahu d

  11. Letter to Ramaraya 22 October 71'


    "I am so glad to learn that you are eager to preach but we should know it that we cannot preach without being solid in our standing as devotee. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "apani acari prabhu jivare sikhaya.'' This means that Lord Caitanya wanted that one should preach by behaving himself exactly what he preaches. So our Krsna consciousness movement, preaching, depends on personal behavior. If you want to preach the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ on the principles of Bhagavad-gita you will find so many differences. Those who are following Jesus Christ, let them follow strictly to the principles of the Bible. "Thou shalt not kill'' is now being misinterpreted by Christian priests. Now they say "Thou shall not murder.'' This means trying to save themselves from the crime of animal killing. So you cannot teach such unscrupled followers the message of Bhagavad-gita. If you want to preach Bible you can tell them why there will be misinterpretation. In N.Y. there is a big press that prints "Watchtower.'' They are forcefully criticizing Christian behavior. I read that one Christian priest allowed a marriage between two men—homosex. So these things are going on. So your proposal for preaching the gospel on the basis of Bhagavad-gita will not be successful. If you want to do that I cannot check you but I cannot allow you to do such things from within our society. <jd:"lt-bbt-editing, proofing="" and="" trans.="" 35?="">You have to understand our philosophy perfectly, follow the regulative principles, and then in fact you can edit our books and papers."</jd:"lt-bbt-editing,>

    <jd:"lt-bbt-editing, proofing="" and="" trans.="" 35?=""></jd:"lt-bbt-editing,>

    <jd:"lt-bbt-editing, proofing="" and="" trans.="" 35?=""><table><tbody><tr><td width="5%"> </td><td width="90%">Letter to: Lalitananda


    26 May, 1975



    My Dear Lalitananda dasa,

    Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.

    I hope this meets you in good health.

    Your ever well-wisher,

    A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami



    I have seen(but could not find) a letter from Prabhupada to a fallen homosex person that stated it was better to be with one partner in a type of marrage than to go from one partner to another. But this in no way condones homosex 'marrage' by a priest in this Krsna consciousness movement.




  12. Hare Krsna All Prabhus


    Just got back from a day at the races(so to speak) WOW! where did this thread go! I though it was just for the fun of it, lighthearted, nothing heavy.


    Blew a rear brake line doing a reverce spin out. That's where you go like hell in reverce, hit the brakes and spin the car around to be heading forward! Damn Taurus, junk yard today, easy part to find and install. It's the line that links the two rear calipers, tucked up into the body.


    Why is it that all conversations on devotee forums deteriorate into low life squabbling over semantics? Or bickering? THE INTERNET IS INTRINSICALLY IMPERSONAL.


    High ideals are almost impossible to convey with this computer/Internet medium. No voice inflection, no eye contact, no body language. Just throwing out words that mostly only their author can truly embrace the intricately composed meaning of. I have done also!


    I'm sure most of us could have a very nice time speaking to one another in person. In person little is misunderstood or if it happens, then easily rectified. Or at least we could punch each other, LOL.


    I know Begger personally and he is hard to talk with in person, let alone on line where you can not see him smile after a bit of a pinch just for fun. He's kind of a wise cracker, but good hearted. This Andy and Kula might even clear the air in minutes, only if face to face.


    Please remember the character of the Internet as being impersonal and go from there.




    Hare Krsna




    Hello Theist,

    I find that humor helps me. When someone gets me to laugh or I get them to laugh, it seems to help all concerned, and lightens the load a bit.


    Also, from your photo in post # 1, it appears that either your head must be too large or your body is too small. I would recommend either a very good diet of whole foods, best if offered, or conversely, try putting your head in a toaster oven for two hours.


    Driving a sports car fast through heavy traffic can be lots of fun at times, but there is little margin for error in such endeavour. However, it is GUARANTEED to get you off the mental plane.


    But seriously, the best thing any of us can do to get free of the mental platform is to join a kirtan and just let go. I am facing many of the same issues as you are, and I do not feel prepared at all to die a truly noble death. But Krishna sees our heart, and He will make whatever arrangement is necessary for us to make further progress.




    Hare Krsna Jeffster


    You live in one of the most exciting ROAD areas I've ever lived in. The ride from SC to San Jose is just a thill! I used to live in SC and go to computer school in Santa Clara. Went over the hill daily in an MGB-GT. Then got even poorer and downgraded to a VW Super Bettle. Broke the welds at the roof and door pillar driving hard on 17 on my way to the San Jose temple. Or for the REAL expert there is 9 through Felton, Ben Lomand, then Boulder Creek. A lot of 'tail out' corrners there, LOL.




    good ideas sanatan. I'm 57 yrs. in the body now and am in a rut. I don't want to die so out of balance. Devotional service to Krishna means a change of heart.


    Sports car idea is attractive only I don't drive. I love to drive but I hate traffic. I would have to clear the world of other cars first.


    Hare Krsna Theist


    Very uncharacteristic of you to show a vunerable side, maybe I just paid attention this time, LOL. Interesting!


    I always said in a sarcastic way against myself as lower that straw in the street, that if Krsna was a Ferrari I would be back to Godhead in a milisecond!!! LOL, how pathetic of me!


    When I find myself a little 'tight' I love to take my Taurus SHO 5sp out on the road and thrash the sh*t out of it. Every corner is a gift, every stop light is another opportunity to excelarate from 0-60 in 5.9 sec. A freeway on ramp means I can tach out 3rd gear to 95, then on to an easy 120 before shutting it down back to 80. I've had this car up to 150ish I think! Beyond the speedo's capibility after the indicated 140 limit.


    I do all my own work. I get parts from ebay and the junk yard, remember it is just a Taurus. I bought this car for $500 and had to teach myself to repair it.(I'm poor) In the 4yrs of ownership I've remove every major system from bumper to bumper.


    But what I see in it, is that Krsna gave me was engagement and satisfaction of material desires. It is NOT a Ferrari, but hells bell I'm satisfied!


    I can go out to my car and satisfied a small material itch easily and chant the names of Krsna and Rama at the same time. I have done this all my life and from day one in the movement and concider it additional therapy for a conditioned soul.


    I'm also an expert motorcycle rider and used to run the Rock Store in S. Cal all the time on my hyped up Suzuki 1000S. Now that THING would top out at over 165+ on the desert highways in Palmdale before all the constuction choaked the road down in traffic.


    How would I do on a farm? Love horses to death! Ride like the wind. Not to bad in a barrow race either, LOL. But a little old and out of shape for that, LOL.


    The end is near dude, chant and be happy in what life Krsna has given. All the other stuff is just stuff! DVD, this Guru, that Guru, ritvik schimtvic, GBC, NM, Guadiya nuts and IS-A-CON. It is all worthless in the end. There is just you and Radha and Krsna.


    What will be There pleasures? F%$* the rest!


    Hare Krsna



  15. I already got what I wanted out of this, to repost those coversations. And have Atheist make a public spectical of himslf. I don't care if a person accepts it like me. I can work around that. Most of you can't follow worth a sh*t anyhow. So no matter to me. I'm sure you all are quite satisfied with yourselves also. So I'll stop now.


    Thank you for your time.


    Hare Krsna




    PS) See you in a couple of yrs. Like always, just DVD trolling to see who's out there in TV land. It makes no difference to my every day life what you do. This is just TV untill we meet face to face.

  16. It's all good to me, I'm not swayed or attached to whether any of you accept or not. I'm just a messanger, take the message or not is not my doing. I do not live with you and don't have to suffer you either.


    You have free will!


    Just shits and giggles, interactive TV means little to me.




  17. Converstion 14/02/77


    Satsvarüpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

    Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. Brähmaëa, kñatriyas. There must be regular education.



    CB)Starting in ISKCON? Yes, yes!!!!!!!!


    Hari-sauri: Where will we introduce the varnasrama system, then?

    Prabhupada: In our society, amongst our members.

    Hari-sauri: But then if everybody’s being raised to the brahminical platform...

    Prabhupada: Not everybody. Why you are misunderstanding? Varnasrama, not everybody brahmana.


    CB)Nope, nothing about India only! In our society, amongst our members!



    Hari-sauri: So we’d have to completely revise the whole system that we have now.

    Prabhupada: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they’re falling down. There must be systematic. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Krishna says. Bring that Bhagavad-gita. Sve sve karmany abhiratah?




    Hari-sauri: So in Mayapura here now we have that situation, that so many...

    Prabhupada: Everywhere, wherever, Mayapura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmany abhiratah. Brahmana has his duty, kshatriya has his duty, vaisya has his duty, sudra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brahmana? Let them do, according to sastra, the work of sudra, or vaisya. He’ll get the perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brahmana or he should be made a sannyasi and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That’s good. That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible. Varnasramacaravata purushena parah puman vishnur aradhyate. Vishnu, Lord Vishnu, can be worshiped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varnas and four asramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmani. You work as a perfect brahmana or a perfect kshatriya, perfect sudra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous? Perfection is not checked.




    Hari-sauri: At this time should we try to introduce it in our centers or not?

    Prabhupada: Always we shall try. Human society will be always there. We have to serve them, para-upakara. We have to keep them in the right position.



    CB)Always I will try! Girlly boys(no guts) need not aply.



  18. SB 8.2.30


    Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.(END)


    For all Prabhupada's devotees.




    Yeah I am familar with those quotes given in India when discussing a varnashrama college and what they would teach the students.


    That was in India for India and also not for Srila Prabhupada's disciples but rather for the non disciples who attended the school.


    We have talked about this before but ytou didn't get it then either so I am posting only for some innocewnt person that you may contaminate with your animal killing and meat eating philosophy.


    And still you refuse to admit to the members here if you eat meat and hunt animals. You used to brag about it so why so shy now?


    Btw I am curious about something. Did you vow to Srila Prabhupada to never eat meat? You present yourself as his disciple but I know disciples take the vows of the four regs. What is your position actually?


    As for myself I am in no way anyone's disciple and represent only myself by my words.


    Sence your no one's disciple then why do you speak out of turn, this is not you buisness then shut up.


    NOT FOR JUST INDIA, what a crock.


    NO, I did not promiss four reg's as you know it. You did! or didn't because I 'm talking to air and you admit to no adherence, to a guru.


    Prabhupada said it, the way He said it, and that's that! Oh snake-A-theist.





    Yes I am no account scoundrel but you ain't no Yosemiti Sam so I'm worried.



    I just want you to be honest about your animal killing and meat eating. I am honest about by not living up to the prescribed standard of life from Srila Prabhupada. I am below sadhana bhakti and am simply trying to gather some sukriti for future births.



    The fact that you are trying to get Srila Prabhupada's disciples and followers to accept that they can eat meat and kill animals I find especially obnoxious.



    I find that no one takes you seriously except one poor bhakta Mark very encouraging.


    You admit, but still spew? No maners, no culture.


    Your a fool to actually think there is only Bk Mark I'm friends with.


    The below converstion quotes are from the same conversation held on March 14 1974 in Vrndavan, India. I tried earlier to post all of this conversation, but over loaded the system and nothing came through to Audarya.



    Hridayananda: So Prabhupada, in this varnasrama college, is it true that there will be no need, for example, for teaching material history and mathematics and...?

    Prabhupada: No, there is no need. History, we simply read Mahabharata, history of the great men, Pandavas, how they were fighting for the good cause, how they were reigning. That history. Not this rascal history. If you study that history millions of years, what is that history and what you’ll learn from that history? You learn history of the really great men, how they worked, how they ruled. That is a... You study history of Maharaja Yudhishthira.

    Hridayananda: Mahabharata.

    Prabhupada: Study the history of Maharaja Parikshit. That is required. Not that simply chronological record, all nonsense, and big, big books, and making research. Why should you waste your time in that way?

    Hridayananda: Jaya. Yes. And so...

    Prabhupada: Hm? History must be for great person. This is history.

    Hridayananda: So in our varnasrama college the students that come to our college, they follow the four principles... They follow...

    Prabhupada: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the sudras or the kshatriyas... Just like kshatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.

    Hridayananda: What he kills.

    Prabhupada: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kshatriyas, they can, they’re allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhima, Bhima also eating sometimes meat. Bhima. Amongst the Pandavas, only Bhima. Not others. So if the kshatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the candalas.

    Hridayananda: But never the cow.

    Prabhupada: No. Cow... The sudras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kali, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Candi-puja, Durga-puja. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.



    Hridayananda: So, for example, if I become a teacher at varnasrama, say, the first teacher at the varnasrama college, then I have to also become expert at how to fight, how to...

    Prabhupada: Not all of you, but some of you must be, must learn the art of fighting also. But in a practical you are not going to fight. If required, you can fight. I say that we are above all these varnasrama, but we must train others or ourself also for material activities, everything, under these divisions.




    Hridayananda: Oh. It’s very exciting, Prabhupada, because all the, at the present time in the...

    Prabhupada: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are sudras or less than sudras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn’t matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society’s already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they’re only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they’ll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Krishna conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

    Vishnujana: Preliminary.

    Prabhupada: Yes. That they should not be in chaos and confusion. Otherwise, how the brain will work?

    Vishnujana: Yes. No one can give rapt attention without peace of mind.

    Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Our main aim is how to give them Krishna consciousness. But if they are already disturbed in every respect, then how they’ll take it? Therefore we are taking these subjects, to help him to come to the Krishna consciousness. And this is the method—varnasrama.

    Hridayananda: So just to clarify, Prabhupada, I want to make sure I have it very clear, that if someone comes to our varnasrama college, even though this may be preliminary help, in general—you’ve made some exceptions—but in general, when they come to our college, they have to follow the four regulative principles, also learn something about Bhagavad-gita and then, side by side, they learn a...

    Prabhupada: Four regulative principles compulsory.

    Hridayananda: Yes.

    Prabhupada: But if some of the kshatriya or the sudras, they want, so that is our prescription: “Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that.” That’s all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you’ll find, the kshatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That’s all. Finish. Kill him. Bas. Finished. So other will see, “Oh, the ruler is very strong.” And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. “Kill him.” That’s all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bas. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.

    Yaduvara: How would the kshatriyas kill the animals?

    Prabhupada: Eh?

    Yaduvara: How would they kill? With guns or bow and arrow?

    Prabhupada: That, as it is suitable. It is not that because the kshatriyas were killing by bows and arrows formerly, you have to continue that. That is another foolishness. If you have got... If you can kill easily by guns, take that gun. Just like formerly, parivraja, Caitanya Mahaprabhu walked on the street. There was no aeroplane or... Or he did not use it. Does it mean that I shall have to follow that? I must take the jet engine. If it is available. If somebody criticizes, “Oh, Caitanya Mahaprabhu walked on leg and you are travelling in the jet plane?” Shall I have to take that ideal? These are rascaldom. When you have to work, you have to work with the greatest facility. That’s all. Now I have got the facility of the talking in microphone, and... So why should I not take it? It will be recorded. It will be heard by so many others. I am speaking to four, five men. It can be heard by a big crowd of four hundred men.




    Satsvarupa: Should our children who are at gurukula, when they grow up, should they go to that varnasrama college, or...?

    Prabhupada: Yes, yes. They should go.

    Hridayananda: We’ll start it right away.

    Prabhupada: Varnasrama college means for grown-up students. College means for grown-up students.




    Parivrajakacarya: Would the...? The persons who would take part in such program, they would have to be devotees in the first place. Is that...?

    Prabhupada: Devotees is... I have already explained. We are all devotees. Past condition, we are all devotees. We are not, we do not belong to this varnasrama. I have already told you. Suppose I am mopping. So that does not mean I am mopper. But I am teaching how to mop. This is our position.

    Parivrajakacarya: So the students, also, they must all be devotees.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Devotees are... That is our life and soul.

    Satsvarupa: And the idea is that after they’ve finished their schooling, they would take part in ISKCON, preaching in some way as vaisya or...

    Prabhupada: Yes. This preaching is also required, to make the groundwork. Because nobody’s taking care. Just like some of the devotees, great devotees, they took the profession of becoming thief. They, in South India, it was done so. They took the profession of becoming thief. So a devotee is a thief? But he took. They took it. Because nobody was paying. So they organized a plundering party. “Plunder all these big men.” Just like the politicians do. There is history. Yes. So even up to the point to become a thief, devotees took it. Yes. And the gopis, even up to the point of becoming prostitute—for Krishna. So for Krishna’s sake we have to accept any nonsense type of business. Or on the highest grade. Anything. But for Krishna we have to do that.

    Hridayananda: So, Prabhupada, in our temples, we have so many devotees. Should the devotees...?

    Prabhupada: They should be engaged.

    Hridayananda: Should they be trained in a particular...?

    Prabhupada: Yes. Those who are not able to preach or to do other things, they must go to the plough department, agriculture.

    Hridayananda: Those who cannot preach.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Those who are less educated, not very much expert in preaching, they must be acting as kshatriya or vaisya, or as sudra.

    Hridayananda: And sometimes...

    Prabhupada: :Not he’s sudra. Always remember that. But he has to act to fulfill the, fill up the gap. Proxy.


    Maybe they thought there was meat in it from your hunting excursions.


    This is a-theist at his best! and as good as it get from him.


    He has no more loyalty to Prabhupada' vani than to speak like a demon under the pretents of anonymous 14k plus posts of junk. Prabhupada says, I repeted.


    I can prove meat eatting in vedic life for sudra and ksatriya. This is in ALL OUR BOOKS and a-theist would have you on all four barking at your own tails. He is an internet shrill, baying at the moon.




    The brahminical class in Iskcon destroyed themselves by indulging in money grubbing en masse. You'll need a brahminical class to establish the other classes and be their head. Srila Prabhupada wrote and said many times that if Krsna Consciousness does not succeed socially that it can succeed individually, which leaves us with the internal part, only - unless, of course you can establish a real Vaisnava brahminical class. The Westerners and now Westernized Indians in Iskcon circles don't seem to be attracted by this for there's no money in it.


    Well I agree with no interest at this time from other classes. But I have to say no individual depends on an other for their varna(class) , I mean to say, brahman is here in Srila Prabhupada's books, we do not need to wait for anythng more before we cooperate.


    Know yourself, know Prabhupada through His vani. Brahman is there, don't dispare.


    Hare Krsna



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