JRdd

Dear Valaya prabhu, I seem to be doing a miserable job of communicating with others, and I am sorry if I did not convey to you clearly enough in my previous post the empathy I feel. I told you I felt you were posting in the spirit of unifying, and I apologise to anyone who needs it for not having the intelligence to understand the intricacies of what is being discussed there. I did not even have an interest in reading the thread, and only opened it because my attention was brought to it. I hear you wholeheartedly when you say the following things; in fact it is almost as if we have already discussed this, so much do your feelings match mine, and so much in line they are with the mood with which I started this thread. You say: It is most unfortunate that we appear unable to share each others' loads, because therein lies the secret of connecting; not only with each other, but also with Sri Guru and Srimati Radharani. megamaha dittoes!!! One who can abandon another to their fate, rationalize from a distance or, worst of all, justify their lack of personal involvement while preaching from scripture, really has no connection at all. I hear you! Millions more megamaha dittoes! And if I sometimes fall into that category myself, please forgive me. But I do in my personal life tend to practice a life of INVOLVEMENT with others. I am far from detached, and have enormous appreciation for my friends. Those who are willing to risk everything out of love, who in fact have no choice because their hearts overide their minds, who in spite of realizing their complete lack of any qualification still attempt to help in any way they can, are actually possessed by the service attitude that can lead quickly to pure devotion. All that is then required is to dovetail with the devotees, gurudev and Sri Radha. Wonderful realisations here, and wonderfully put, too. I thank you for your courage, and hope you can bear a few more monster-sized dittoes for this one. The way, the means and the end are here and now for all to surrender to. Otherwise it is possible to linger about for countless lifetimes, taking what is of use to the false ego and remaining detached from reality internally, while going through the motions externally; all the while choosing what is pleasurable and avoiding that which brings pain or discomfort. These points are sooooo important to anyone aspiring for personalism-hood. Blows my mind when devotees treat each other like robots. Like none of us have feelings. Like we are to be mistrusted instead of believed. Like we are out to get what we want for ourselves when extending friendship freely. This is the sad state of the conditioned soul. And I pray we all grow further and further away from this terrible and condition which opposes love, by developing a taste for relishing good association and seeing it as a true gift from Krsna. That is the difference between religion and relationship, personal and impersonal. Sacrifice is one thing, but for what and for who? In the end those who hold onto their little selves will lose everything while those who are somehow able to give up themselves, as opposed to simply give of themselves, will achieve realization of the higher self. That is the gist of what Lord Jesus said and, of course, it holds true for all on the path of devotional service as well. There is nothing I can add to that. I know that I think I give myself freely, but the more layers that come off me, the more I can see that there are still more layers. What's to lose? Everything! What's to be gained? More than could possibly be imagined from our fearful limited vantage point in this miserable world. Faith, prabhus, not in ourselves, but in that highest Love Divine which has been spread before us like a feast; not to devour for ourselves, but to give away to each other. megamillions monster dittoes etc... Don't go nuts, prabhu. Keep sharing and there will always be some who reciprocate. Scary world here, but we gotta bite the bullet and forge ahead. love, Jayaradhe (edited for html errors) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-22-2001).]

Originally posted by livingentity: I tried really hard to find a cyber hug symbol but that proved futile. You ARE a cyber hug, livingentity. I have been finding the dharma mela increasingly difficult to follow so basically have not read it for a while. So I really don't know what has caused you this distress but don't let it bother you so much. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone and at some point in time it will be your turn. I don't read much there at all, since the last zigzaggy winding path. Also I never quite got my taste back since that which Mr das refers to happened. (take that sentence apart, Stoney or Animesh) As for disagreements, none better than my closest friend of twenty or more years for giving me a strong perspective on how we can disagree like anything, but still be civil and--more than that--still love each other. I sure don't like to argue, but I find disagreements enlivening when they are enlightening. When they are not, they may be at least food for thought. And when they are not even that, I move on to something else. Oh and in tying that in with this thread, that is how a good marriage works too. I read your posts and feel that you have some very valid input and hope that the disagreement on the dm does not stop you from posting. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and keep on associating on the forums. \ / (hug) Ditto. Get back in the saddle matey.

My heart needs enlarging Where do i get one? Does it work on the False ego?

That is one strength of yours I have always liked, Maitreya. Your assessment of the situation, coupled with your no-nonsense advice. Has not always felt perfectly comfortable, this mirroring, but has always been appreciated by me. I was thinking after reading this about how everyone has something unique to offer the others. And how together, our inputs make a beautiful collage. So maybe I came in all mushy and soft with Valaya, then another comes in and balances that out with another perspective. Just like parents--the dad gives the firmness where the mom can not bring herself to; the mom gives more softness when the dad is not so inclined to give that. Oh and in keeping with this thread, I can easily tie this in to the idea of the yin and the yang, how marriage facilitates balance. In any relationship, in fact, a person's different perspectives and strengths fill where the other is lacking. That is what friendly exchange is all about. ys, JR

Hari bol, Rishi prabhu, I jsut wrote this offline and now see there are new posts including yours. Just wanted to say I haven't read them yet and that this is in response to your earlier post. Hare Krsna Rishi prabhu, I also appreciate your inputs; it is truly these kind of honest exchanges which are the roads to our liberation from that which distracts us from our march back to Godhead. I know I may appear silly to some but still I must express my feelings, for I believe firmly in these reciprocations, which must not wait until we are able to exchange from an absolutely “pure” vision. We must share with each other NOW, from whatever standpoint we come from. With each other’s help, support, and honest feedbacks, we may more easily shed that which is unnecessary for our advancement, and/or find solutions for making adjustments which will help us do just that. And of course we are not talking about simply shedding anarthas, which is after all the natural result of developing enthusiasm, taste, for engaging ourselves in various ways in serving the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And we need to feel safe in sharing ourselves, without toxic shame. This is what I know, so this is what I share. We each have something special to share. I find it easier to say these things on another forum I participate in, an egroup, as the devotees there are generally more mature than many here, and I am not talking about age necessarily, but attitude. I find that those who have been steadfast in their development of Krsna consciousness in true loving mood are much more natural in the realm of feelings, and show much more compassion, in general, than here, where some seem threatened by the world of emotions, and seem to expect us to not feel anything until that day when we are purely aligned in love with Krsna. This is artificial and oppressive, and serves nobody. I notice too that the spirit of compassion in that group of devotees extends not only to the individuals participating, but to the world at large, as far as yearning for and/or actively participating in spreading Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s message of love of Godhead. I am not saying that mood does not exist here–indeed, our moderator Jahnava Nitai himself is a wonderful example as an active participant in this beautiful mission–I am just making a generalisation to illustrate a point. That point being that there is nothing admirable about cold-hearted dealings among devotees; furthermore this does NOT prove renunciation, but rather its opposite, for being repelled is the flip side of being attracted. The devotee who acts magnanimously truly exemplifies our acharyas, for kindness and friendliness and compassionate dealings are actual signs of devotedness. I did not mean to go on quite that long. You said: I appreciated your thoughtful and heartfelt expression of the need for devotees, especially those who are now estranged from the Temples and isolated around the world, finding personal association with one another. As we grow older, it seems that old friends gradually drift away due to various circumstances...attrition, if you will. Myself, I've more or less been content living single, mostly due to habit, although I'm certainly not without desires for association, companionship, and basic human affection. And those desires should be at the center of any move toward gaining that association through partnership with the opposite sex. Not fulfillment of sexual needs, or to exploit one another, or in some other way minimize the sacredness of our relationships with other devotees. How we are in our friendships with other devotees may give us an idea of just what our attitudes may be in relationship with our spouses. If one knows true friendship there is a good chance that one can be a true friend in all types of relationships. There's a part of me that feels that I would be greatly benefitted by having the association of a like-minded Vaishnavi. Another part of me, however, feels that I may just wind up committing offenses, or being a source of eventual disappointment to a potential Vaishnavi companion. Probably this fear has prevented me from actively pursuing such association, especially as I grow older. Yes, sometimes our particular conditioning, or habitual self-talk, may indeed prevent us from being “marriage material”. If one is not driven to have a partner, if one’s mind is not drawn that way, and if one is doing fine without, then perhaps it is best not to disturb a good thing! However, if one can benefit from such association, and feels capable of committing to such a partnership, then there is something to seriously consider. But I do not think that it is healthy for one to stay in one’s own world of habits. One needs to earnestly extend oneself beyond that world, and find ways of making the sacrifice of taking more association into one’s life. Be that through intimate connecting with friends, partners, or children. You sound like someone who has very much to offer in the way of companionship. I know for myself, living alone, I often eat bhoga, (out of laziness), which of course is sinful. But I know that were I married or were I to have the good fortune of daily association with a devotee friend, (or friends), that this friendship would save me from eating bhoga. I consider honoring prasadam to be such a critical and vital aspect of our Krsna Consciousness development and growth. So true. And we need reminders of this type of thing. Similarly, I know I would benefit in the way of increased chanting, which I always find much easier to do when in the association of devotees. Cooking is less of a problem for I have a very hungry demanding Boy here, who seems to be working up an appetite playing His flute all the time. But sometimes He only gets oatmeal. So He is my friend, helping me in the prasadam realm. Apart from this perfect friend, who anyone like me isn’t always conscious of, friends can play the role of small parts of Krsna to each other, in carrying what they lack, offering strengths to the other’s weaknesses. Sadly, it is rather difficult to link up with like-minded mates these days, when most of us are isolated from one another. I thought of starting a website for this, but haven’t got too much of a clue how to start it. I do think that we need to look into the practical aspects of devotees linking up. But I do not know how it is possible, and am wondering if, for myself, I am meant to suffer this out til the end of this life. When I look at it frankly I think I can bite the bullet. Bite it I may but-- perhaps mainly because I am so geographically distant from devotees--I find it a hard bullet to swallow. Sadder still that direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada must spend their final 20 or 30 years alone and isolated, when very possibly their association could very well have been beneficial for one another. Now that is a vivid observation there. I want it to stand on its own. How many of us want to leave our bodies without devotees around us? This could very well happen. It probably has happened to some already. I fully empathize with your situation. Women are not alone in this. Oh for sure they’re not. That’s why the situation seems so ludicrous. I see fear, pride, so many other factors, and NOT renunciation, as the main reason so many of us aren’t married. Marriage indeed is generally recommended. True brahmacaris, sannyasis, and widows are few and far between. Yes I am advertising the merits of marriage. I feel it is a real and a mature thing to do. Among other merits, it gives a person the chance to know love for another devotee, the chance to become more sacrificing, the chance to become more humble, and the opportunity of benefiting the other devotee (male/female, doesn’t matter) by accepting their service. For men, we also have the added pressure of the possible "embarrassment" of female association, as we have been taught for so many years that household life should be finished as we reach or approach the age of 50. On the other hand, there are extenuating circumstances these days which I feel should make it socially acceptable for allowing middle-age devotees to strike up relationships for the sake of obtaining sanga. (Especially when the alternative is utter isolationism.) It's a real dilemma. And it's sad. Very sad. I appreciate your honesty in bringing up this point. Surprises me that this pridefulness is still an issue. It is actually quite immature, on all levels. But true, it must have some bearing on the situation of isolation, for it was sunk into us at a very young age. As a woman, that particular hangup is not my area, but for sure there are blocks in me which I have no depth of perception to even see. Sometimes I even wonder if I have bene harmed so much in marriage that I am not qualified to be married. Other times I know I am still loyal and tender at heart, and capable of pulling it off. But I do know that my experiences have shown me that I can not marry without some feeling that love is there. Call me a romantic, but that is really not what I mean by love. In combination with love I also mean attraction and affinity, like-mindedness. No good coldly arranging for two people who have never met to be put together. That seems to rarely work these days. Reminds me of a time when a temple authority asked if I wanted to marry a particular devotee. When I said no, he told me this devotee was a great kirtan leader. Can you believe that. As if I would marry someone because of their position or how they were seen by others. Another time, years before this, an attempt was made to entice me by stating that the devotee was a temple president. No appeal, in and of itself. You don’t marry positions. You marry persons. This is personalism, after all. Thanks for sharing, Rishi; I didn’t mean to go on so long, myself, but I am working offline and somehow let myself get swept into it. To the neglect of some other things I was going to do. But I feel this is a very important topic. Aspiring to be the loyal servant of some tender hearted soul, in mutual pursuance of the only thing worth striving for, Jayaradhe

Sat Sep 22, 2001 2:37 pm Re: Sankirtan On Wednesday evening, a group of devotees led by Brahmabhuta Prabhu sat down in Union Square Park in New York City and prepared to chant the Holy Name of Lord Sri Krishna to relieve thousands of grieving citizens of their painful loss and lamentation. The park was filled with thousands and thousands of candles lit in memory of those missing at ground zero of the World Trade Center disaster. As we began to chant, more and more people came around out of curiosity, attracted by the transcendental sound vibration of the Holy Name. Our audience appeared to us to be struck with wonder. They looked stunned, many of them at the point of tears, seeing devotees chanting so prayerfully and with such genuine devotion for the Supreme Lord. People were trying to chant along with us and a few came and sat down beside us for an hour or so which inspired the devotees to chant with even more enthusiasm. Friends of the devotees were helping to distribute halava prepared by Mother Vani and bakery-made doughnuts donated by the Doughnut Plant. Nearly 400 copies of the Peace Formula were handed out and many books were sold to onlookers who could be seen discussing the philosophy of Krishna consciousness amongst themselves. TV camera crews were there from all over the world to film the candlelight memorial and our bhajana group quickly became the focus of their attention. Individuals from many different countries also made videos of the chanting party and then spoke with devotees about how wonderful they thought it was that we had come there to cheer people up. Actually our purpose was to please Krishna, and when Krishna is pleased, the whole world becomes joyful. Tonight we will be returning to the same spot with harmonium, mrdanga and karatals instead of going to Times Square. It is a different mood, and we feel that the impression we can make at Union Square is more profound. On Wednesday evening, we could feel that people's lives were being transformed by the influence of the Holy Name. All of us were thus convinced that chanting congregationally for the benefit of the innocent public is the highest welfare work and the prime benediction for mankind. Your servant, Locanananda dasa

OOOOO! Yes! I also like the idea of trying a flabby and hanging stomach.

I agree that it would be foolish to allow the aggressors to get away with it. Utterly foolish. Please don't misunderstand that, just because I also see the value in prayer.

And what how would you like your disproportions, my dear? Personally I think it would be kind of fun to have really big ears, and itsby bitsy feet. And maybe big forearms like Popeye's. Whatddya think?

Valaya prabhu, I wanted to respond to your request for devotees' feedback, but quite honestly did not know how to. I failed to see what was going on there at the Mela, despite reading it twice, and discussing it with a friend. Sometimes details elude me, maybe delude me too, I don't know, but I am unable to analyze it in any way that would shed light on it for you. I don't know if it is due to my type of intelligence, or lack thereof, or whether it's due to some lack of depth of understanding I have on the subject, or whether it's just plain old being tired the past few days, which has been affecting my ability to take complicated things in. I also haven't much taste for being very analytical. So as useless as this feedback is in terms of information, I hope it helps in terms of you feeling not ignored here. I took it that you posted that item in the spirit of wishing for unity. In saying this, I wish also not to offend anybody who feels it was in any way diminished Srila Prabhupada. I might have missed something there, I don't know. Just can't really get involved in it. Just as I can't get involved in ritvik discussions, it just all gets circular and confusing to me. Prabhu sometimes people don't agree with us but we can't let it get us down for long, which I am sure you know. If we are too hard on ourselves, for having feelings or whatever, we will certainly be hard on others. We are all precious. Not that everyone is precious except me. I too tend to sometimes fall into a pity party, as Maitreya put it, and I will be the first to admit it when I see it in me. But sometimes you just gotta feel those feelings first, before you can move on. And I strongly believe it is much healthier than hiding from those feelings. You push them down, they are still there, looking for some other way to get out--and then, later, they often come out inappropriately to the moment. Which can give rise to misunderstandings and sudden lashing out type behaviour, with someone inevitably being bewildered by it. A couple of days ago someone in a discussion group I participate in surprised me by saying she hoped "our beautiful artist Jayaradhe" didn't see some offensive posts that were soon deleted. I did not at all know I was seen this way, which she later explained as her view that artists suffer the most when the world turns ugly. This empathetic outlook, from someone I am only recently acquainted with, came at a very low moment for me, and encouraged me that I had some redeeming qualities in me, and that it was not wrong to be a strongly feeling person. Don't let people shame you for being who and how you are. When you feel shame from another, it is not your shame but theirs. I should think that if one wants to become closer to devotees, as is the broader theme of this thread, one should be able to share one's feelings and perceptions safely and without judgement. Having said all that, I think Maitreya meant to appease you, not alienate you further, by assuring you that he didn't see much going on there. It's good to have one's illusions smashed by an outsider. I mean someone outside yourself. I would like to take this moment to apologise profusely to anyone who I offend or have ever offended by my words or actions. I feel that in this world we are all repeatedly doing yukky things, some more or less than others, but we are like clumsy oafs in these bulky coverings and are bound to bump or crash into each other at times, no getting around it. So if I stepped on your toes with my two lefties, I really really am sorry. It is that my heavy load makes me reel and stumble. Aspiring to become pleasing to the devotees, Jayaradhe

I never did get back to that movie. Don't know if I will see it before it's due back. Now I want to say something that is making me a little mad, and I hope you, Mahak, don't mind if I use your soapbox as you are not at present standing on it and I didn't know what I would call a new thread for this. Don't even know if I want that much discussion about it as things can get pretty heated and not go anywhere.... There seems to be some propaganda going on here that proposes or assumes or dares to COMPARE the preaching activities of those interested in spreading the glories of the Holy Names, with those who are for or actually going to battle. There IS no comparison prabhus. Of necessity one does not preclude the other, there is no need to make a choice between the two, they are not only two separate things but also of course are on two entirely different spheres. One is transcendental, absolute, and the othere deals with the temporal things of this world. I saw this new post tonight somewhere else, which I think excellently makes this point. I say this in appealing to the devotees to respsect the Holy Names, and please don't dare to try to explain them as being of some mundane relative sphere. Here it is: " Re: Shock and horror Dear Prabhus, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I am truly sorry that such nice devotees as yourselves were exposed to the shocking statements of a very disturbed individual who came...only to cause trouble. I am praying to Krishna to rectify his consciousness so that he can one day return here and take full advantage of the association of the vaisnavas. This devotee's misunderstanding led him to commit a great offense against the Holy Name. In the Caitanya caritamrta it is stated as follows: "One who says that ten million asvamedha sacrifices are equal to the chanting of the Holy Name of Lord Krishna is undoubtedly an atheist. He is sure to be punished by Yamaraja." (Cc. Adi. 3.79) "xxxxxxxxxxx dasa is suffering right now because he thinks that performing pious activity is more valuable than engaging in the direct glorification of the Lord by chanting Hare Krishna. Although karma kanda activities can gradually elevate someone, they can never compare to the chanting of the Holy Name. Krishna and His name are far above all mundane pious activity as explained in the following verse from the Vedic literature: "Even if one distributes ten million cows in charity during an eclipse of the sun, lives at the confluence of the Ganges and Yamuna for millions of years, or gives a mountain of gold in sacrifice to the brahmanas, he does not earn one hundredth part of the merit derived from chanting Hare Krishna." "Srila Prabhupada concludes his comments on this verse by saying that pious activity is always on the material platform, but chanting of the Holy Name of Krishna is completely on the spiritual plane and, thus, of eternal benefit to the chanter and anyone who hears it vibrated by the devotee. "Again, please forgive me for having provoked this devotee to post such virulent statements on this otherwise sanctified forum. Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada, xxxxxxxxxxxxx dasa" Thanks, JR

Hee hee hee. I like the part about the disproportionate parts. Can't quite explain the image in words though....LOL! (there I go again!) hee hee hee!

Well then better than a fish under it. Still, there IS something fishy goin' on, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mystery?

I d like to add to this list but I too often start getting pesky ones. Not to mention those mass mailings! > deleted to fix frownie [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-21-2001).] frownie won't fix. Take that face as angry one. Or at least dismayed. Maybe even a little disgusted. We certainly don't have a very extensive smilie vocabulary do we? [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-21-2001).]

Anyone can throw pasta in a pot of boiling water, carefful or he might answer that last one with "ketchup". I know someone who eats raw tofu with "sauces" as he puts it. Including ketchup. Kinda cute but.... Now but one qualification of a good cook is that he or she is a good eater. So there is a good chance that Gaurachandra is a good cook. Another sign is, he is a Vaisnava. Another day with more time I'll tell you when I did a complete fast for 9 days. Only water. Same as me! Nine days too, just little water. Ok make it soon then will ya? JR sis

Distant only to some. Those whose dealings aren't respectful. yourself. My friends don't find me distant. They find me very near. BTW, my breakFAST this morning was snow peas from my garden. Mine was cold leftover porridge with maple syrup. Had to feed the bear in me. Grrreeat! Now I am going "bush" for some days to fast and pray If anyone is sending me a friendly message I will not be able to reply for quite some days Not that I'm expecting any ....... My kindest and most loving regards to all my friends (even those who dont like me !) Jury's still out. But my soul namastes yours. JR

Atma I thought we lost contact. Gald to see you here after all. Did you get last email? Yes I agree with you wholeheartedly--no man should EVER get married who wants to play with the fire but not tend it, as my dear Godsister put it the other day. I meet plenty who have a good time playing with it. Few have the fiber or selflessness of spirit to tend it though. thanks, JR

This is a wonderful gift you give the devotees, in this gem of a statement, Mahaksa. Thank you! on behalf of not only myself but anyone else appreciating this message/gift. It is some solace in itself. Loneliness is not a problem, though, because we are never alone. Always a discussion is going on internally, the teachings do not stop by disappearance of the Vaisnava. This too is reassuring. Then too, loneliness IS a problem when we are not fixed in that understanding, and I myself am not fixed in that understanding, but still I derive some solace in the teeny realisation I do have, that Krsna is my dearmost friend, and that sweet Radha helps Him be that way. My advancement is so small that I only hope that offering my suffering, caused both by feeling the separation of devotees and by feeling the illusory separation from society, friendship and love in this world, will count for something when my Time comes to take me on to the next adventure, or horrow story as the case may very well be. As far as what the males were taught, many were taught evil, so these things must be rooted out. Yes and to be fair, some of us were men in previous lives who were taught the same evil things, so who knows where my own suffering in this life comes from. I do know that men also suffer, in their own ways. And sometimes their causes of suffering may be the opposite of some women's cause for suffering; the latter often suffers due to open and trusting hearts, capable of offering astonishing loyalty and service if only treated with respect, while the latter may be incapable even of opening their hearts, or very much afraid to (maybe they were the mistreated women before?) and thus suffer loneliness too. But whatever the past causes of present conditions, the cycle has to stop sometime, if we are to get out of this rat(so-called human)race to better or avoid one another. Love and love only, in its various expressions and aspects, through the center of Love, Himself, is the only way to hop off the treadmill and start treading those sublime nectarean waters of the ocean of love of Godhead. I see these cute little sealions' sleek little dark heads above water, full speed ahead, glancing back now and then to make sure everyone else is making it okay. Big sealion smiles on their faces. Association with women may be given up at 50 (or even sooner), but association with Vaisnavas should never be given up. I myself accept the 50 timeline no more than I accept that young sannyasis will make it through to the finish line. We are people, we are persons, we have different requirements. Besides, the fact remains that, as you yourself and also Stoney says, many women remain unprotected. It is not like someone saw to it that they were left with some protection til the end of their days, as the great acharya Srila Prabhupada did for his family. How many feel suddenly renounced at fifty? I personally know no devotee who feels this way. Except maybe the odd sannyasi....??? I take Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's advice, as also given us by Srila Prabhupada, to always remember Krsna and never forget Him. And whatever it takes to facilitate that, well, I say go for it. Don't see any women's asramas available to me.... If we were taught to make the mother of our children live alone in poverty with no one caring for her welfare in old age while we selfishly aspire some sort of spiritual status based on materialistic VAD mumbo jumbo, we have a lot of garbage to unlearn, and must reject all who taught that way. Then we must reject, among others, this society. Anyway, the female form is not mayadevi, the garbage in the mind of the matter addict is mayadevi, the female form is the great creation of the Supreme Lord which is the continuance of culture. Only from mama comes culture, papa cannot prove to his son his paternity, but mama can. WELL SAID!!! And if we deal with our present conditions, the way it is now (no blame, no shame, jsut being practical) we really can not only make the best use of a bad bargain, but move forward in leaps and bounds if we do it the right and loving way. What a nother gem of a statement you have left here! Culture, this is lost in any society which abandons mama. Mama is abandoned in our society, and the society lays in ruins. The reformers and rtviks will never succeed until they commit themselves to correcting this problem of abandonment. Too true!!! Godzilla dittoes!!! ys, JR

When Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. (more later, when not so weary...)

How does one email others in this forum? I have received some myself from members, but can't find on this site where/how to do this. I noticed there is a place to register for email. Does one have to do that first? (hope not for I have too many inboxes as it is) If anyone can advise I would appreciate. thanks, Jayaradhe

That wasn't the complete email, my dear poet, but you are right, I shouldn't have mentioned it but I will not breach by elaborating as you have done. I would have preferred deleting the post about the nectar... Anyway, if you see fit to throw nectar my way, I will keep my mouth open but silent. Like a baby bird. JR

Actually i just saw your email, don't usually go to that box. Never mind, you seem to have an atittude toward me and I don't expect any nectar..

Will you be the one with the pot of nectar? [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-20-2001).]