JRdd

Wow who needs innovations when there are such stories to dive in to? stories won me from the very very start, and stories still win me. I got my first stories, ot the Rasa Dance and Putana witch, the first time I went to a Love Feast. I was too impersonalistic to appreciate that there could be more to the philopshical side of anything they would say to me than what I already knew: that is, that I was not my body and was eternal spirit soul. So it was Krsna Book that got me first. When I finally joined, a few trips and tokes and trainhops later, one of the four devotees in the little temple would wake me by sitting on the floor next to my head reading from Krsna Book. Then there was Gurudas. And of course Srila Prabhupada. And so many devotees, telling stories of other devotees.... This story of Aniruddha brought tears to my eyes. I know he was always dear to Srila Prabhupada, who is the most loving and all-embracing father of us all. I saw Aniruddha when down in Berkeley temple after Rathayatra. He looked the same, youthful, and better still he was so fired up about this renaissance many of us feel converging {I think someone put it like we have been put on a shelf for safekeeping and now the time is ripe for sharing what we have)(talk about sentence structure, but we are only chitchatting here and folksiness forgives our lack of care), and he gave me his email address and I was wondering if you have access to it, prabhu, as I have yet to find it in my papper piles. He was most encouraging. It would be nice if he came to the cyberspace and shared his blissful and humble self with us. And thank you for this reassuring tale--and your beautiful commentary--which illustrates the love which is the source of such causeless mercy from our wonderful acharyas and Sri Mahaprabhu Himself. aspiring to be of service, Jayaradhe

Isn't it great to have Stone)so-called) hearted here?

Isn't it great to have Stone)so-called) hearted here?

How ephemeral are our toys. Hmm, I was thinking about fairyland recently, and how my parents used to take us six kids there as a big treat, and the only thing that really stood out for me as memorable was these big red lollipops they had (they had grape too) that were like the real thing. I mean like real candy, not like the fake stuff of today . But my main point is, that's how little effect that seemingly enchanting place had on me, over all. This whole thing, of the World Center, really does help people reprioritze, center their world more to God. I love how they are talking so much about God, spirituality now, just on the regular news. One pastor who they were trying to pin down for his opinion on Jerry Falwell's partly blaming abortionists, gays, etc for what happened, refused to go there, and instead said he would rather be positive, and talk about turning to God (or Jesus I think he said). And then he adamantly enthusiastically repeated a few times how church leaders are taking this opportunity to urge people to turn back to their churches or synogogues or temples [so they can build up on and retain the spirit they are feeling right now]. This is a wonderful pulling together of people, united under God. I hope the groups of devotees are doing something. Has anyone heard of any devotee activities during all this? (edited for serious typo) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-14-2001).]

Oooo prabhu. I have! Too much! I'm just trying to grab onto the rope of a more solid ship than this rickety little unreliable boat I've put myself on. And I want to make sure that big ship remains solid! (or undergoes repairs as the case may, er, seems to be) JR

Im not sure mr das. But Time magazine's dotcom would let us know if we can. If I hear anything for sure I'll let you know. For those who don't go to the mela, I posted this url there and Jahnava (not Nitai--the other moderator) showed how you could get the whole mantra on, like this: HareKrsna HareKrsna KrsnaKrsna HareHare HareRama HareRama RamaRama HareHare i figure we could go back for seconds thirds, etc and just inundate it with harinam. ys, JR

Hmm, yes, it seems that only AFTER the results of the experiments come out--when the havoc has already been wreaked--do we get to know? so how do we avert this disasters--I mean experiments? How do we know what is risky experimentation and what is valid innovation? JR

Ok Suryaz, sorry about that, thought you were just trying to be contrary for the sake of it. I was coming from a perspective of peace is at stake now and had no patience for what I thought was to be an intellectual argument. sometimes a picture speaks more than a thosand words. JR

I lit up at 7 est time to be with the new yorkers in spirit, and also am about to light up soon for our neighborhood one at pst. Nice to be at peace with you. We neednt be cats and dogs later though right? I mean in peacetime? JR

Good one BB! Took me from disgust to disgust in a matter of seconds.

I answered that too quick, before, was in a rush. Now are you saying that there is no God then, and that prayer is an illusion? Or are you saying that the qualities of compassion, harmony, enlightenment, and an interst in spirituality are argueable in absolute terms? Don't bother answering for my benefit though, for I am not interested in your pseudo-intellectual cold treatises, nor do I continue dialogues with habitual contrarians, like you and your friends. Peace. JR

If you are praying to God for those things, God may choose to dispense, and He certainly has the intelligence and discrimination to know the difference! JR

Yes gives much pause for thought. Who are we actually praying to, are we actually righteous, are our prayers appropriate and for the good of others, etc. etc. Each side feels righteous. Each side engages in heinous activities. Beginning with abortion. Seems safe though to pray for compassion, enightenment, harmony, and a resurgence of interest in the spirituality. ys, JR

That seems a great idea Maitreya. And Brahma prabhu, I am in agreement for sure with the spirit of your posts, which is to be all inclusive. I have always had this attitude, to the point of keeping my child out of the gurukula for fear she would have a them and us mentality. I do not agree that the issue of this discussion is about exclusivity or inclusivity. Therefore I can not agree either with your assessment that I am exclusive. All glories to the assembled devotees. ys, Jayaradhe

Hare Krishna. Here is the link to the place where you can share your words of hope, which are being constantly run on the ticker at Times Square. Ten words or less, plus your name. http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/ticker_mailform.html

Okay Alfred it is. Since Krsna's creation, the universal form, has everything in it, it must also include the sacred clown, who embodies some of you two and me and others too. The heyoka is an important part of any culture, I jest you not, and though his jokes may often seem silly or sacrilegious he offers alternative perspectives, such as making it easier to see things from a wider angle. Hair yes, right hand yes, T-shirt yes, tilak yes too. Anything else? JR

Hari bol, Valaya. to me that thread on vnn was contentuous because it focused on the bodily platform. As if that is devotee women's focus. Also there were blatant descriptions that should not have been spoken about in mixed company. I personally felt offended both on my behalf and on behalf of my sisters who I know to be way above the standard of nonVaisnavis, and I believe that thread arose out of pent up frustrations on the part of men. I hated being thought of as my body. Heck, even ordinary women can relate to that feeling. Not to say I don't feel the yang of you all (and I think the mix is good, when well-directed) but it is much more encouraging to be seen as a devotee first. And certainly never as someone who is Miss Walking Lust. hari bol, good night, Jayaradhe

Jayaradhe: This logic though contradicts what you are trying to defend. Who goes around asking devotees if they are gay, and what they do in their private lives? Stone: Devotees assume some devotees are gay, and if they don't address it directly, they tend to talk about it behind the subjects' backs (at least, that's what I've experienced over the years). And what I'm "trying to defend" is one devotee's opportunity to express an opinion different from yours or mine. NEW)Jayaradhe: I didn't think that was an issue here. We are all always expressing our opinions here. No one said we couldn't. As for devotees being gay, I have had best friends who are lesbian, and have also adored gay men I have known in the movement, who have been delightful in their services. I even often feel more comfortable around gay men--not hard for many to understand, I am sure. I never thought about the acts of homosexuality while associating, serving alongside, these persons, never even occurred to me they indulged. Just saw them like I saw any other devotee. Never thought of devotees actually practicing the sex of a gay person until these threads came up. but none of this is an issue to me. I am so hetero that I can hardly conceive, as in imagine, what is thought of as the practices of homosexuality. Therefore, I can not relate to it enough to get the slightest bit flustered about it. The only thing that bothers me is the idea that we may begin acting like it's really okay. We never did that for other anarthas. Why should we do that for homosexuality? I am tired of people thinking it is so liberated and open-minded to think this way. (Makes me wonder how many would get abortions if it wasn't plainly condemned as evil according to our teachings.) Genuine free thinking means to align oneself with what is right. Not with what one has sentimentality toward. Jayaradhe: Well I say the same thing, and so do others who object to the policy of sanctioning homosexuality. This discussion keeps going in circles because people keep ASSUMING that taking this stance means lacking compassion or acceptance or embracing all into the fold. Stone: What I did was infer from the tone of some of these posts that the authors don't like gay people. I could just as easily say that the discussion keeps going in circles because some people keep ASSUMING that a more "liberal" approach to preaching to gays means they approve of homosexuality. NEW)Jayaradhe (one word, as Srila Prabhupada wrote my name): Well again I believe most of those authors stated they had gays as friends, though I too sensed at least one who actually seemed to hate persons who are gay--and this could be hurtful enough to spoil the whole barrel of apples in this discussion. (I would not, however, place in the category of hate someone's open disgust of homosexual practices though.) Jaya Radhe: I personally don't see how the two ideas are equivalent or go hand-in-hand, and it seems like either black and white thinking, or someone doesn't want to admit that they might be wrong. I don't know. Stone: What two ideas? Illicit heterosexual realtions and illicit homosexual relations? NEW) Jayaradhe: No, I meant someone being against sanctioning homosexuality (one idea) and someone being mean-spirited (the other idea). I do not equate the two, at all. But I would also like to take a moment to apologise for being blunt and maybe not careful enough with my words. Who am I to guess that there is black and white thinking or that someone doesn't want to admit when they are wrong. Sorry about that, prabhu. JRdd: And so it also almost seems as if the underlying implication is that Srila Prabhupada, who is so dear to the all-merciful Mahaprabhu, himself lacks compassion! Stonehearted: That's because you may have missed something else I said: that it's the way Srila Prabhupada's words are used by some. You've been around a while, so you must have seen plenty of instances where devotees use something Srila Prabhupada said as a club to subdue someone. There may be more than one who won't concede. NEW) Jayaradhe: True. I don't see that going on here though. I see genuine concern for keeping Srila Prabhupada's teachings and mood intact. Especially considering how many times devotees have thought of something new and it backfired. Why not stick with what we know to be pleasing to Srila prabhupada? In the meantime, I will be among the first to sit next to a gay visitor to a temple. But not if they make a play for me (yes, this has happened to me, more than once). JRdd: If there is to be any value in this discussion. can't we all agree to move on from the useless and groundless accusations of heartlessness that some are being targeted with on this thread? Stone: Does that include the useless and groundless accusations that Brahma supports homesxual activity? NEW) Jayaradhe: I don't know. I'm getting too tired to think about it. Seems like we are on the verge of something, that's all I know. Hari bol, good night, Jayaradhe

Dear Audaryalila prabhu, You make a succinct perceptive summary and I have no disagreements with anything you have said here. I believe though that there is an issue that is for me not entirely resolved, and that is I would not like to see the flaunting of someone's anarthas. It is a very important point you make, about devotees living in denial of their anarthas; still I do not see that it would be appropriate to bring these up in general discussion. Srila Prabhupada said pick your association, and there are some who you may pick as confidential associates, to whom you may disclose, with safety, matters that bother you. Okay here too we like to air some of our problems. But not to get sanction for the anarthas. But to get encouragement, inspiration, reminders of our true purposes and our true constitutional positions. I would like to add that I do not see those I disagree with as lesser persons; Stonehearted and Bdas are certainly without doubt worthy of my respects. If what is in our heads differs, that does not mean that I don't like someone or that I won't agree with that person on other matters. My best friend and I disagree all the time, but weremain in harmony and our loves crosses two decades. thanks, Jayaradhe

When you stop posting?

When you stop posting?

Valaya this post surpasses your cleverest posts a hundredfold. Touche, bravo, ole, haha hoho hee hee, etc.

Thanks, I hope someone comes up with how to get these, seems like it was mentioned to me where but now I forget. MC? Anyway I saw the first memories video the Monday right after Radhastami and was simply amazed, moved to tears, enthralled. Did not know there was an extensive series of these videos. The Hare Krsna Youth put on a Prabhupada night every Monday and serve a feast, they cooked themselves, afterwards. these kids are great, they are smart, hip, devoted, respectful of all, young and old, and just a pleasure to be around. Their dedication to Srila Prabhupada is very encouraging. I wish I was a devotee when I see them. Jayaradhe

Thanks Gauracandra. But I'm only the painter. If people give me stuff to put in it it is like having a lot of paint on the palette, which I don't have to use unless Heart directs me to. I'm just playing with it. It is an unexplainable meditation. I add an image without knowing why and then suddenly all the symbolism or layers of meaning are felt in that one little image. And sometimes on paintings I have four paintings on one canvas before the final layer emerges. I thought with this painting our collective inputs would be appropriate, as a symbol of working cooperatively and lovingly together for peace. That was one of the main ideas behind it. thanks, JR