JRdd

Right on. Proving that honesty (as opposed to watering down) is the best policy! ys, JR

There you are wrong. Where do you get this information. I for one am unlimitedly grateful to devotees who have in the past year or so introduced me, throught the internet, to their guru Srila Sridhara Maharaja. And have also much appreciation for others, such as Srila Gour Govinda Swami, who unfortunately I found out about too late in a sense. Others too. I recently saw on a video of our San Francisco Rathayatra my Godbrother Tripurari Swami speaking, and felt only happiness to see preaching going on--and how continuously this devotee has been doing so. Why should I resent hearing acaryas, teachers, siksas--actually, ANY Vaisnava--glorified or quoted? Why would that have to detract from my own dedication to Srila Prabhupada? thanks, Jayaradhe

Yes and I think this was one of the valuable lessons we learned from that history, and which is our wisdom and duty to pass on to others, any among us who become confused. We do not wish for such pain and tragedy to continue. Best to stay away from even the slightest most harmless-seeming betrayal of the purity which will carry us onward toward our real Home. thanks, Jayaradhe dasi

Dear Brahma prabhu, I am as I have said before of course open to anybody chanting Hare Krsna, as Maitreya has also said. However, I must agree with these points Maitreya makes as: Brahma, Yes that would succeed in pleasing the homos in SF.But would it please Krishna and His devotees that have spoken so strongly against homo marriages?NO!No need to become all things to all people. And may I add that as I read your post about this Brahma, I was also thinking of the relatively minimal numbers as compared to those who would be discouraged by the watering down? Besides, I do not see why the gay thing even needs to be brought up, generally speaking, unless someone is flaunting sexuality in the temple or among the devotees in sangha. We have always attracted and kept gay devotees, why not now? Why make up some big thing to present to them about how their sexuality is Im okay youre okay? The spiritual practices cover the behaviour of all devotees, and no one needs to seek justification for some weakness from the other devotees. I do not ask you to help me come to terms with my choice of music. It is something I desire to be purified as I leave the modes more and more. One doesn't need to be married to chant, so where is the gain?I see none.Let them chant as they are, no problem. Yes, no one is stopping them. To not draw the line here is to open the doors to other watering down ways, and we have had and do have enough of that as it is, without even making the extraneous efforts to. I live in Berkeley so I know what is going on in SF.It is disgusting.gay pride week and the filthy gay parade.Why do we need to bend over for them?I won't. And that's the thing too: pride. In their quest to be liberated, just as the women also fought for due to their being denigrated, they go the other extreme and actually become proud--the opposite quality of a devotee, which is to become humble. Your proposals, Brahma prabhu, will simply enable or encourage this pride. Your willingness to compromise on this issue in opposition to Srila Prabhupada's clear statements on the matter are frightening brother And while calculating this thing have you considered how many you might alienate when it became known that the Hare Krishna's were now recognizing homo marriages? Best we don't change anything. Hare Krishna, MC ys, Jayaradhe dasi

Now that is well said, Valaya. Now to this I would like to add or respond: Yes and the key words are mundane relationships, and friends in this world, etc. What devotees often miss in this neti neti thing is the replacement of that, which is SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIPS, and TRUE FRIENDS (those who remind each other of their true constituional spiritual positions). It seems insane to me that so many walk around in fear rather than take the best associations they can have, the best friendships--heck even the best marriages could have happened if not for this impersonalistic neti neti consciousness--such opportunities we have for advancing, for becoming excited and enlivened in the process of devotional service--by deepening our God-relationships. Why do so many seem to prefer skirting aroudn the edges, neither in this mundane world of relationships, nor in the devotee world of relationships. Seems like the razor's edge to me. And one could fall either way. We have simply GOT to understand the importance and true meaning of what it is to associate. I know some here will understand what I am saying--Mr das for one. Personal attachments, yes. What gets me is that the attachments are to mundane activities including the people who bring these mundane things to us, and not to the devotees. Attachments to devotees, who are serious and sincere, are far more auspicious, and much less risky of binding one to this world. Yes, it seems insane to me, the choices some of us make sometimes. thanks, Jayaradhe dasi edited for typos [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-10-2001).]

Hari bol, Mr dasanudas! I did not see your post as I was typing while you put it in. So nice to see you here, was wishing for your presence here all week! Just see how Krsna fulfills the right kind of desires. I look forward to the quotes you dig up for Chris and the rest of us. ys, Jayaradhe dasi

Hi Chris. Well, early in the morning is the best time. Set yourself in gear for the rest of the day. Actually many devotees, who are able to that is, chant in the Brahma-muhurta hour, that auspicious time before sunrise, when all the world is quiet. I always found this the most conducive for meditating on the Holy Name myself, though I can not always do this do to some physical limitations sometimes. But anyway, anytime is also good for chanting of course, the chanting of Hare Krsna is said to be antiseptic and prophylactic; that is, the Holy Names purify all they touch, and also can not be touched themselves, or contaminated by mundanity. And in the begining stage one may taste bliss while chanting and also one may taste bitterness too, which is simply the impurities rising to the surface. When I first started chanting many many years ago, I thought of the effects as being more powerful than a thousand hits of acid, with the number it did on my false ego! Thanks for giving me the opportunity for remembering how powerful is the maha mantra, which ultimately leads one to the ultimate liberation, that of being able to associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by mercy and grace that is, in the eternal realm of which this mundane sphere is but a perverted reflection. There our true spiritual identities are revealed, and reactivated, and as the soul is active by nature, so we have unlimited activities eternally, but of a divine nature. Nirvana or Brahman or merging with the void is not our goal. That is to us like spiritual suicide. So an important thingn to do in your studies is to learn to discriminate between the teachings of different paths, and find what it is you yourself want on the ladder of different processes. Do you want a lower rung of realization or do you want the highest rung on that ladder? Abd yes chant the mantra when you're sad, and chant it when you're happy. And also chant it however you feel, regularly, if you can. this wil be the best. Start with a set number of rounds on your beads, or simply chant for a set length of time, or just chant as you feel you can, and that will help you very much, to dive deeper into this understanding and be able to process what you read better. And yes, Krsna is the One God from Whom everyone and everything else manifests, the One is front of so many zeroes, the One who gives meaning to everything. Do you want to take indirect paths or a more direct route? This should be your main consideration. And I think you would very much appreciate the books by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, called Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and The Nectar of Devotion, books which discuss in detail many of the things, and more, of which you are wondering. thanks, Jayaradhe dasi

WORST EVER VIRUS (CNN announced) PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST !! A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by Microsoft as the most destructive ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are stored. This virus acts in the following manner: It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A Virtual Card for You." As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened, the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot. When the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently destroying the hard disk. Yesterday in just a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN. This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself. So don't open any mails with subject: "A Virtual Card for You." As soon as you get the mail, delete it. Please pass this mail to all of your friends. Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would rather receive this 25 times than not at all. Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was discovered recently. If you receive an email called "An Internet Flower For You," do not open it. Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic link libraries (.dll files) from your computer. Your computer will not be able to boot up !!

. [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-10-2001).]

If he who sees light in Dark be a...mole Then he who sees dark in Dark be a--hole.

Well, as I said many who worship Kali-ma have an attachment to meat-eating. Now if you are intent on going beyond the modes of this material nature, you must first come to the stage of humanity, which means renouncing meat. Then your brain may be more conducive to the finer sentiments of bhakti, or devotion. sincerely, Jayaradhe

Maybe you are expecting some instant results, as is the way of most in this modern day. This is not some push button religion. Chanting Hare Krsna, the maha-mantra (or great mantra), the mantra for true deliverance forever from the mundane spheres, cleanses the mirror of the heart. So when you first chant it may not seem so sublime, because just like when you are cleaning dust from a mirror it appears to be getting dirtier, so the dirt of the mind rises to the surface through this mantra meditation of Hare Krsna, and it may not seem as if the desired affect is being achieved. The thing to remember too is that this isn't about pleaseing the self, for our true pleasure lies in trying to please the Supreme. If everyone was purely selfish in their spiritual intents, how would any of us come together in loving moods, connected by our relationship to the Supreme Personality of Godhead? May I ask, are you vegetarian? People who eat meat are often drawn to the chanting of Om kali-ma. ys, Jayaradhe

I agree, seems like the technical definition of prayer opposes true praying, which is not a mechanical process but a heartful one. Here's something nice: “For me, prayer is an upward leap of the heart, an untroubled glance towards heaven, a cry of gratitude and love which I utter from depths of sorrow as well as from heights of joy. It has a supernatural grandeur which expands the soul and unites it with God....” St Therese of Lisieux

I agree, seems like the technical definition of prayer opposes true praying, which is not a mechanical process but a heartful one. Here's something nice: “For me, prayer is an upward leap of the heart, an untroubled glance towards heaven, a cry of gratitude and love which I utter from depths of sorrow as well as from heights of joy. It has a supernatural grandeur which expands the soul and unites it with God....” St Therese of Lisieux

What I want to know is, how did it make you feel?

Okay that does sound good, Valaya. If one pretends one did not read the rest of this thread. I will try it! But I was kind of hankering after some bonafide intoxication.

Well I hope you will also describe it as generously as GC did as this is about the closest I am coming to that, at least in this current body. Unless someone puts it in front of me of course.

Oops I meant the CD drive. Has the little picture of the CD on it. JR

Then open up My Computer (I am not going to get into right or left click instructions as I am mostly left-handed and have the added quirk that I can't tell left from right and end up giving opposite instructions sometimes), and click on C drive, and open it that way. Now see what happens. (Is that correct, GC?) JR

Prabhu, I often go down to the Bay Area. May I ask where your programs are and when? ys, Jayaradhe

Mc, you mean "sure, no need to ask", about "If we keep ourselves busy, both when alone and with each other, in engaging in activities related with Krsna consciousness, then isn't that far more conducive for spiritual growth than straining separately (and thus always meditating on) to avoid that which draws us mundanely?"?

May Srimate Radharani bestow Her kindest blessings on all the assembled devotees. May you all sleep in peace tonight (or have a blessed day if you are in OZ). May Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga eradicate all our misconceptions, misunderstandings, and various angsts and disagreements by the torchlight of knowledge and with the light of the Holy Names. I see everyone here as devotees, and do not wish to offend anyone here, whether I agree with them or not. How many people believe in the Blue Lord, after all? peace and love, Jayaradhe

I bet all you need is RealPlayer, though I am not well versed in these matters. You probably already have it, and can update it free online. Did you put insert it yet? Usually you will be told what you need once the disk is inserted. ys, JR

Someone else in that egroup added this: Fri Sep 7, 2001 3:16 pm Universal laws of leadership Dear Prabhus, Pranama. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Some more taken as is from the Net. Not sastra but thoughtful still. The Eight Universal Laws of Leadership, As Practiced Daily by the USS DECATUR (DDG 73) Supply Department 1. Maintain Absolute Integrity Keep Your Word Choose the Harder Right Over the Easier Wrong Guard Your Principles Do the Right Thing 2. Know your Stuff Know your People Learn from the Bottom Up Learn from Your Subordinates Never Stop Learning 3. Declare Your Expectations Get Your Expectations Clear Make Your Expectations Compelling Develop a Plan Promote Your Expectations and Implement Your Plan Listen to Feedback and Adjust Your Strategy Be Faithful to Your Expectations 4. Show Uncommon Commitment Meet with Your Followers Face to Face Make a Public Commitment Keep Going When the Going Gets Rough When the Situation is Impossible, Think Outside the Box Accept the Risk that Goes with Commitment 5. Expect Positive Results Develop Your Self-Confidence Become a Positive Thinker Visualize the Results You Want to Achieve Maintain Your Enthusiasm 6. Take Care of Your People Be the Leader When Things Go Wrong Give Their Needs Priority Really Care Assume the Responsibility Share the Gain 7. Put Duty Before Self Focus on the Mission Rejoice in the Success of Others Consider Yourself Last Share the Pain Demonstrate High Moral Courage 8. Get Out in Front Go Where the Action Is Set the Example Be Willing To Do Anything You Ask Your People To Do Take Charge Be an Up-Front Leader Paraphrased by William A. Cohen, THE STUFF OF HEROES Do we see that in ISKCON'S leaders? Your servant, xxxxxxx das