JRdd

Quack quack!!! (translation: "You said it!") I like ducky because he is round and small and harmless. People give him no flack and let him quack.

YOu seem relieved about that. Ducky

I was thinking of making a black curly wig for Lady Subhadra. It seems like I have seena picture of a Deity like this somewhere. Does anyone know anything about this? Also, I have some maha turban pieces from Lord Jagannath at New Jagannath Puri, in Berkeley. They are those jari pieces trimmed with peacock feathers that are curled like a 6. See below about getting in touch. JR [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 08-19-2001).]

Where do the United Nations stand (or not) in all this. Isn't there any world group that can stop this. I know about the boycotts. I don't own a car. I want to know how one more death or torture can be prevented. Isnt it hard for the whole world to sit back and watch this happening? JR

What a beautiful and warming tapestry this thread is. Thank you.

http://www.geocities.com/theopenheart/Gopalandbird.html [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 08-11-2001).]

http://www.geocities.com/theopenheart/georgecard.html Picture of George/Prabhupada collage at link (tried to put it here but it was a now you see it now you don't kind of thing) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 08-10-2001).]

it worked [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 08-10-2001).]

Hari bol, Jagat prabhu. It was my understanding that in the Road Show some of the devotees really were getting carried away in the rock and hippie mentality that they had not so long before left, and I believe truly that there is a big difference between making allowances in order to encourage somoene like those little boys, who had never been exposed to Krsna consciousness, and curbing the desires of his disciples, who presumably were at least to some degree sincere and serious about pursuing the path of Krsna consciousness. That is the duty of a guru, to be sensitive to what is best for each individual disciple and prescribe accordingly as the spiritual doctor. Wouldn't you agree? Now here I hope I will not get too personal and I may be way off mark here too, and certainly off the point of this thread unless one looks at it broadly, but it seems to me that whatever happened between you and Srila Prabhupada, Jagat, is in the past and though others may like to bring that up to you in the present, you don't have to live up to whatever was once said (which I really don't know about) by Srila Prabhupada. You obviously have heart so why emphasize the other so much, seeming to make a religion of "objectivity"? Forgive me if I offend, I just can not help seeing more in you than you sometimes show on the forums, and I would not bother saying this if I felt you were truly stubborn about this. I sometimes find myself wondering what Srila Prabhupada would say today if he were physically present, about devotees he chastised in the past. On another forum someone told of a public lecture by some sannyasi who let it be known what Srila Prabhupada said about a certain disciple; according to the forumite telling this story, when this disciple heard about it (having known nothing about it), he left the movement. I only mean all this in the kindest sense, but I do put my mouth in my foot a lot. I can't make you respect Srila Prabhupada more but for your sake I sure wish you would, brother. Jayaradhe

I thought I visited the same temple last week but rereading your description I see it is not. The one I saw was not in rolling hills but right in the town of Ukiah, where I was visiting friends. I saw there wonderful arches just as we were about to turn the corner, and majestic grounds behind. It said "The Temple of Ten Thousand Buddhas". A sense of astonishment overtook and my friend obliged, taking the car right through the archway. There were peacocks on the grounds either side of us, and tall trees, willows and maybe even cypress, and oaks, very old and grand, God's natural temple. There appeared many buildings, but more squarish than traditional, and she told me it used to be a mental hospital place, bought by the Buddhists. But they had made much of it. There was a sign declaring one large complex to be a school (which another friend is enquiring into sending her son to--which beats any regular state school anyway). The whole place seemed incredibly serene. Huge statues of various forms of Buddhas became visible, and I believe one of Tara or Avolitekshar (forget how to say that). There appeared pure white peacocks! By now we were out of the car and walking around. We entered the main temple which was so awesome, so huge and beautiful it almost took my breath away, and left me without any thinking capacities (I think). I think my mouth stayed open the whole time we were in there, which seemed timeless, like when I was a child and got picked out of the audience by the magician for having my mouth open, taking it all in as real. The magician found a whole ball in my mouth. But this WAS real, here at this temple, where the bright yellow-robed women began trickling in for some afternoon service. The enormous walls on each side were lined with cubbyholes covered with glass, each of which held an identical maybe two foot tall golden Buddha. this was an astonishing sight that words can not describe. These were the ten thousand Buddhas, five thou on each side. Besides these, there were enormous Buddhas of bronze and other materials all over the place, each one of which could easily I imagine have weighed three tons. I have never seen such huge Deities except in pictures. I don't even know how many of these there were. In back there were more, and also these strange lights, shapped like large large eggs, that may be the chandelier things GC mentioned, only these were on the floor, about six feet high, and were composed of cells like the many eyes of a fly; each of these cells was lit up, and held small golden Buddhas a few inches high each. There were hundreds of these little Buddhas. The incense cauldrons were also enormous. Everything in California is small except the trees, not like New York where the old buildings are grand and the architecture superb. In Northern California Mount Shasta stands out not so much for its size, which is only 14,000 feet since it blew its top, but because it stands alone on the landscape. This Buddhist temple was an anomaly in the small town of Ukiah. I wish such grandeur was dedicated to personalism. I can see why Srila Prabhupada wanted first class temples. They really are impressive, attracive. Alluring.

Great reading here. I'm with those who feel it's not a black and white issue, I mean even Srila Prabhupada told George Harrison to continue his service--which as we all probably know inspired a lot of people. I heard My Sweet Lord the night before hitchhiking across the states, and my companion and I sang Hare Krsna the whole way; at the end of our journey we walked into the house of some friends and promptly read about the devotees in that town and I joined a couple weeks later. Thanks for straightening that out about the Road Show, Mahak, that's exactly what I remember about it too, and add to the record that when we were watching that show in the presence of His Divine Grace, at the Syrian Mosque in Pittsburgh, he was grinning from ear to ear. Srila Prabhupad is most liberal--but not at the expense of his disciples' best interests. He has the art of liberality fine tuned, expert that he is, and balancer that he is. (Wish you didn't have to twist that to fit your own version Jagat, for you really can be so objective in so many ways, and I appreciate many points you have made in this excellent thread. Why not just make peace with Srila Prabhupada rather than playing it out for forumites? Sorry, no offense intended, just wish there was more cohesion--amongst ALL of us.) One of my most ecstastic recent kirtans was last week when at a friend's, and all we had to play on was someone's electronic keyboard, which was so sophisticated we couldn't make it act normal so were faced with jazzy rocky rhythms, and while a third friend was ready to shine it on, two of us went with it and it became a mix of both spontaneous English lyrics (wish I'd written them down afterwards) and the mahamantra, and sometimes we were laughing so hard we could hardly sing at all but it flowed into a great mahamantra bhajan, inecitably. And the third person said the next day, Let's do it again. I can't spend too much time worrying about the quality of that kirtan because from my paltry largely unsadhanic life it was a milion times better than nothing, and it tricked me into chanting more. And back to the Syrian Mosque, when I tried to stop some small boys from mocking the mahamantra in front of Srila Prabhupada, his sharp glance told me to stop, and the result was that those boys were soon dancing and chanting with the rest of the devotees. So whatever it takes, I say.... Just like Srila Prabhupada I understand used to keep a jar full of gulab jammons around to keep those early New York devotees from "blooping". Wish I'd been there. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, who emphasized time and circumstance in true personalistic style. All glories to George Harrison and other musicians who dovetail their talents for the benefit of humankind. All glories to the devotees here, meeting minds and sometimes hearts in these discussions. Bring on the songs!

Is there no world pressure that can be put on this government? It must be way bigger than anything Amnesty International can do? Forgive my naivity, I just wonder if anything at all can be done to stop this?

Very. And of course they would say that they will do it right or not at all. what they won't say, after the fact, is about their failures, and I wonder if they will also get rid of the women they use, too. And their spouses. A lot has been justified in the name of scientific breakthroughs, and of course they get people in the emotional gut by declaring their motivations to be to help people who can't have children. I'd rather adopt if I wanted babies rather than be a guinea pig, to their demonic activities.

Not so much nectar from me but I do love the story of when Jayananda packed a few of us into a van and took us on an outing for the day up to Naranarayana prabhu's land, felt very familyish, and Jayananda was always so fatherly, and on the return trip he saw a persimmon tree, stopped the van, got out, offered the whole tree to Krsna so that everyone would benefit, then brought back in a large brown paper shopping bag filled with plump fruits oozing sweetness, and I ate them all the way back to the temple. I have loved persimmons ever since. Almost as much as I love Jayananda. Jayaradhe

Thanks for the nectar, loved reading every bit of it. I too felt the diversity and yet such oneness while decorating Subhadra's cart, and was really struck with the joint devotional mood I remember from the old days, now humble and happy everyone was to be serving, and with such a spirit of cooperation and helpfulness. Humble delight being my main impression of it all. I felt very fortunate to be mingling with such heartful devotees, young and old alike, with bodies of various genders and colors. Mahamaya was great to see but I was too busy eating to miss her goodbye. I need all the prasad I can get. Now, with belly full, I do miss her though. When I first saw her at Rathayatra I thought she was a very young girl who resembled Mahamaya. She gave a talk that night on the old days of the Road Show, and memories of Srila Prabhupada, and her book Srila Prabhupada Is coming is really nectarean, I recommend anyone to get hold of it. The gurukulis! Most impressive! My high point in that area was meeting Raghunath who I remember from when he was just a boy, don't know why I expected him to still be a boy and he took me by surprise. Leading kirtans with great bearing and confidence, speaking strongly about the principles of ROOPA (Responsibility of One's Products & Actions), the economics of love and hate--anyone who wants a copy of his newsletter write me at theopenheart@--and he is coming out with a book on it. He emphasizes the contributions of Mom (and his own mother is a stalwart and wonderful devotee), with a section about those who do good deeds such as parents, teachers and priests are allowed to share in the long term reqrds of their economic contributions, explained further in "Family Franchise". The mother works for the equivalent of $507,000 annually at standard professional rates, and does this not for money but for love. Wish more could respect mother than see her as Mayadevi, and talk about her body. (Heh heh, sorry about that last downer note, but had to tie it in to the theme of this thread). Back to the high stuff, Raghunath represents a sector of the gurukulis who are ardent followers of Srila Prabhupada and who are pitching in to the mix with great enthusiasm and energy, and it's very encouraging. He told me to get down to see that play you also missed, Atma, as he reckoned it was probably the best play in the world, ever shown. Hope someone filmed it, does anyone know? ys, JR

Moist eyes the whole time. Is this story true??? True or not, it's a beautiful one. Tell us more! Please! JR

I was just at the Rath festival in San Francisco, this isn't exactly a Jayananda story but I do have a couple, but they are on the website you mentioned. Anyway I was standing there looking up at all the gopis and gopas decorating Subhadra's cart, the one Srila Prabhupada always rode and still does in His deity. I wanted so bad to be up there decorating that cart and just as I was thinking this way the devotee I was standing with called up to them and asked if they needed a hand and for the next hour or so I found myself up there strapping on banan leaves and palm leaves and asparagus fern, etc, tricky to stabilize in the wind that day. On the ground again I was fortunate enough to happen to see them strapping on Jayananda's large picture, next to Srila prabhupada's Vyasasana. This humblest of saints truly still carries the spirit of Rathayatra along the parade. When I think of him my trials seem less. It was a wonderful procession. Jayananda ki jaya! Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Interesting discussion here, hope it continues rather than fades. I am glad Atma brought up the point, and appreciate Gaurachandra's points expecially about the blunt instrument which may harm as opposed to a delicately precise surgical instrument, and then the point made by BV about Mayavadism, and unfortunately, though the "preachers" should be qualified to speak across the whole section of ashrams, seems like some just can't. I sat through too many classes where I was embarrased due to the presence of guests or children, where the topics seemed anally centered, so much talk of stool and also sex that one really wondered just what the speaker was hanging on to. Once I walked out of a sannyasi's class, only to be met in the hallway by a much older and well-respected Indian-bodied sannyasi, fatherly type, who had also left the class, who shook his head at me and clicked his tongue and said something to the effect that it was a shame the way some spoke about women. But the point he made was much deeper, in its reference to the effect of such preaching on our society. And this type of talk was rampant. Personally I would hate it if my daughter heard lectures like that. I am sure it would drive her away Krsna consciousness, not to it. Better to just focus on the unlimited positive points and stories in our divine legacy. ys, Jayaradhe PS Hope youre enjoying all those devotees, Atma. Wish I was there. Maybe you can tell us aobut the Gurukuli Balaram play?

A most enjoyable way to hear, this discourse...

Thanks for that, jndas, I need all the reminders I can get. Jayaradhe

Something went wrong with my computer Saturday, and now I am limited to whatever half hours I can grab at the library. I never open attached files unless they are from someone I know and are expected, and I always scan first. So i dont know what happened. Except I got less association now. JR

This is mainly what is meant by women being less intelligent. They give their hearts in trust quite easily. In the right situation, with a righteous mate, this quality is most conducive for a harmonious marriage. Otherwise, women find themselves in the position of having to learn what is not exactly second nature to them, and that is to be wisely discerning and also wary. I hope I have not offended any other women out there, and of course you are free to refute these statements. But that is how I understand it. ys, Jayaradhe

Hari bol, Atma, we posted at the same time, looks like the men are in sync and we are in sync LOL. Glad to see your input here, and great summation of the problems. This is the reality, as you have described it. More later (in email too), Jayaradhe

HI, hari bol, I too would like to write more, as soon as I get time, maybe later today. Thanks for your reply, GC. I guess I should have used the debate type ploy of including more of what I agree with you, so as not to alienate you by my bluntness. I will try to proceed with more caution. For now, a little aside: yes, I agree with you and animesh, yes, men and women are different, and nothing wrong with that, who would want to criticise the art of the Supreme Creator? All this yin yang stuff is complementary at it's best. I certainly learn a lot (of good stuff), myself, observing male dynamics here. Anyway, more later, hari bol, Jayaradhe

The correlation between the breakdown of the family and the rise of the welfare state is of course undeniable, and I never claimed it wasn't. What is argueable though is your reasons for such. I also do not deny the government's role in enabling, but I think you give too much credence to or place too much emphasis on that role, to the neglect of the deeper causes of cultural breakdown. Why do you ignore the Bhagavad-gita's words on this? I do understand that you were making broad statements, which I expected you would soon elaborate on, but those broad statements contain elements which need to be addressed. You say I was not able to disprove anything you said, which could mean that you missed my points. You speculate when you state that my reasons for attempting to refute some of what you said what based simply on my disliking them. I could say the same about your refusal to accept my points. But I won't, for unlike you, brother, I can not read minds. If this was based on taste, and NOT on what has been stated in the scriptures, then I would also have mentioned your points about intelligence, which I did not like--and not for the reasons some may think, for I do agree that the male and female intelligence differs vastly, but because you discussed IQ only, as if that covers all aspects and types of intelligence, I did not give full regard to a lot of what you said in that paragraph. That you should dismiss my words as being based on some personal dislike is typical of someone who has decided he is right and does not want to hear another, and could also possibly be based on the fact that I am a "less intelligent" woman; this latter possibility I cannot claim or prove, but it is worth considering. Believe me, not being taken seriously is not a new experience for me nor for a lot of other women I know. I disagree with your claim that your presentation was philosophical. While mine, according to you, was emotional. I think a lot of what you say is interesting, but it is by no means conclusive, and why should we not be able to discuss it without you trying to shut me up by saying that I just don't like what you say? Jumping to such conclusions is not conducive to good communication, and no matter how little the value of my inputs may be I do deserve at least the fairness of not being told how I feel. I hope that when you return to this discussion you will take a more mature and just view, so that we may talk about this. Or did you want everyone to be quiet until you have finished talking? Anyway, as I said I look forward to hearing more from you, as I am sure others are; there are no hard feelings in any of this as the printed word may mistakenly convey, it being impossible to show my friendly tone except by explaining its presence to you. True I am a bit peeved by what you said to me, but it's no big deal. Just one of those things that is bound to happen between souls affected by the four defects. regards, Jayaradhe