JRdd

Who was this bhakta who downed 108? He should be famous by now. I remember the gulab jammon contests and the Varuni ones too. For me it was a spectator sport. Prasadam bombs is a great idea. Seriously, I wonder if there is some way to infiltrate with prasadam in some form...

I saw them last night and then this morning they were gone. But now they are back again. Try hitting refresh. Otherwise, go to: Never mind, the site is not letting the image be seen. sorry about that. They were a family of cartoon cows standing up and waving with big smiles on their faces. [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-22-2001).]

Hare Krsna. Since I am the one who made the post which faithless objected to so strongly that he abandoned all sense of propriety and instead of enquiring with submission chose to use foul language, i will explain what I meant by the post, but I will be brief, as over all I feel that those who want to be bewildered will be, and those who want to pick fault will pick fault anywhere. What I stated was a true realization, which happens to be correct according to the Vedic version. To feel reassured of the boundlessness of Krsna's mercy is a real gift, a rare and wonderful one. I tried to capture that glimpse and share it before it flitted away like a beautiful butterfly. Because such a gift is transcendental, and therefore eternal in nature, that gift is never lost, even if seemingly buried when one gets distracted by the day to day affairs of this world. I am going to assume that faithless is really and truly wondering what is meant by those words of mine, and will answer it accordingly. I have no attachment to your conclusion. I did not mean that one must be resigned eternally to a mood of separation. But while in that mood, one may take great solace in understanding it. And that position is one of acceptance, not resignation. That acceptance involves an opening of the heart, and deepens one's gratitude, attachment to Krsna, the works. In that acceptance one may even see Krsna. As Audaryalila said, what is apparent from a mundane perspective does not exist on the transcendental realm. Therefore we devotees often like to use the term "inconceivably simultaneously one and different", as coined by Srila Prabhupada. The mood of separation is also the mood of being with Krsna. This is impossible to conceive of by the mind alone. One may not taste honey by licking the outside on the jar. I felt reassured by the understanding that Krsna gives freely His mercy because I have come to understand that I am not able to deepen my relationship with Krsna without it. It is a matter of the heart, and not of what one can or cannot do in one's present condition. I hope this clarifies the matter. thanks, Jayaradhe [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-20-2001).]

P.S. This could easily have become a very nectarean thread, judging from this first post, with its smilie. Some may be taking themselves too seriously. And not taking Srila Prabhu[ada seriously enough. For sublime pastimes of Srila Prabhupada with one of his early disciples, go here: http://www.iskcon.net/govinda/ All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga!

This is the post that brought so many protests and hullabaloo. Honestly.

Such an inspiring post. I am writing a book which I was at first going to entitle All Glories to the Assembled Devotees, as I have long felt and cherished the association of the humble servants of the servants of the servants, etc. We do not have to wait until we are each completely pure--even if we had the means to see that level in each--appreciation is there, and always deepens our relationships. We as Vaisnavas are not loners, or islands, because we are personalists, and our associations with each other are opportunities to dive more deeply into the ocean of nectar. Of false renunciation, or "withdrawing from the world of action", as your post above says, I was reading something this morning and it seems, logically, that renunciation in and of itself must be false. The Vaisnava way of renunciation is developing a taste for the world of devotion, or the "world of dedication", as your Guru Maharaja puts it. Anyway, here is what I read, from His Divine Grace Srila Sridhara Maharaja, in the little book Home Comforts:

I see that some here sacrifice their intelligence in preference for being disagreeable. My imperfect senses did not scroll past in time to miss such tiring post. However, I will spell if out again, even though I think the devotee I quoted said it quite clearly. No where did he or I say that someone is demonic for disagreeing. If the rooster is demonic then that would be, according to these shastric definitions (which I myself have no argument with), due to her commiting the acts described within that post: that is: to villify the saintly acharyas. End of matter, this was already boring months ago, I am not responsible for what is written in the shastras nor for anyone's envious attitudes. However, it is my responsibility to uphold the dignity of the Truth and the true guardians of the Truth. "True" guardians (and note the plural; no one is being exclusive here) being the keywords here.

Lifted this morning from another group: "...To sum, no bona fide devotee will ever harass another devotee who is telling people to worship his guru, this is NEVER DONE. It is FORBIDDEN to harass a preacher who is glorifying his guru, this is DEMONIAC. If we study the pastimes of Lord Krishna or Chaitanya et al, no one ever harassed the devotees who glorified their pure gurus and teachers. And if they did, they were classed as demons. hope this helps, ys XXXXX"

Hari bol, I should have put the url for the Bhagavad-gita, which is also on a site where you can access any verse or purport through a search. http://www.asitis.com I just finished loading a few more images on my website last night, and here is another unmissable one. I won't describe it and spoil the surprise: http://www.geocities.com/theopenheart/Syamablink.html

Amnesty appeals to warring sides October 9, 2001 Posted: 4:46 AM EDT (0846 GMT) LONDON, England -- The human rights group Amnesty International is calling on warring parties in Afghanistan to respect rules governing hostilities. It called on the United States and its allies as well as the ruling Taliban regime and the Northern Alliance to follow the international rules of war laid out in the Geneva Convention, 1949, to which all are signed up to. The call came on the third day of missile attacks carried out by the U.S. on Afghanistan. "Now that the United States of America and the United Kingdom have launched military strikes against targets in Afghanistan, their forces and their Taliban opponents must ensure full respect for human rights and the rules and principles governing international armed conflicts," Amnesty International said in a statement on Tuesday. It warned that "vulnerable" groups, such as women, children and ethnic minorities "must not be subject to further abuses." "Captured combatants must be treated as Prisoners of War in accordance with the Third Geneva Convention," it added. It said those suspected of masterminding the September 11 plane hijack attacks on New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon in which more than 5,5000 people are feared dead should be sent to a fair trial without fear of the death penalty. "If any suspect of the crimes of 11 September, 2001, is captured during military action, they should be brought to justice through a fair trial and without the possibility of the death penalty," the statement added. It said human rights had already been violated during the six year conflict between the Northern Alliance and the ruling Taliban. "Both sides have been responsible for serious human rights abuses in the context of this conflict." It also called for neighbouring Iran to open its borders and allow Afghan refugees fleeing the fighting to cross into its territory -- adding to the 2.3 million already seeking refuge. Iran says it cannot handle any more influx of refugees, and there is no sign of it opening its border again despite urgent calls from the United Nations. Pakistan has also received hundreds of thousands of Afghan refugees.

http://www.ccc.de/mirrors/jya.com/bin-laden-abc.htm from a January 1999 interview

I'm with you there, Tarun. I'll chant with anyone. At Radhastami there was a wonderful mix. But you say the nonchanters who criticise, and not the chanters against the other groups? Now that would surprise me, for sectarianism may occur in any group. I find it hard to believe you about this. I think you may be making sweeping or careless statements. But I do like reading your harinam experiences. Oh and to anyone else, who believes that loyalty to, and special love for, one's guru is necessarily an exclusive mentality certainly understands very little about the disciple guru relationship, and reveals not only his impersonalistic tenedencies, but also reveals his great foolishness whenever he opens his mouth to conjecture about that which he knows not. Such impersonalistic charlatans, or fakes, reek of envy, and have no sense of respect for the devotees or the acharyas. They are unable to accept authority, and they tread dangerous ground and will descend even deeper into misery by their own mentality. He who rebels most against being called an offendeer is often the greatest offendeer of all. That's why it makes him so angry and ill-tempered and sour ao much of the time. And they wonder why they have no real friends. Well, I just found another person whose useless posts I will scroll on by without reading. JR

Thanks!

Seems like with all the warnings those specifically targetted would be well away from our fire (just like Prabhupada's example of the leaders watching from a safe place), and then who are they really hurting? Just innocents? Not saying we shouldn't defend but I just wonder about these things....

Hare Krsna prabhus! I am writing to share an incredible dream I had this morning of Srila Prabhupada. It was so vivid. The last time I had a wonderful dream was the morning of the bombing of the World Trade Center. This is the morning the air strikes started over Kabul. This dream was far more ecstatic than the last. There is some correlation I am sure, though I am not sure what it is. I do know that Srila Prabhupada came to reassure me and also to remind me of my purpose, and also to enthuse me. Before Srila Prabhupada appeared, it had been already a lengthy dream, with much association of mainly other devotee women. We were excited because Srila Prabhupada was there, and we had already had darshan. We were jovial and active. While I was joking with a friend Srila Prabhupada walked in, unannounced, fulfilling my longtime desire for intimate association with him. He was happy and friendly. It was a while before I could force my tongue to move, to take more advantage of this opportunity. A recurring mood in this dream was that he appreciated and enjoyed the teasing exchanges we devotees were having with one another. He kept smiling and laughing lightly. He was so happy to see the closeness and affection between the devotees. His grand humbleness was contagious; we felt awed to be so close to him–yet no one could come near him in his depth of humility. He was friendly and available and was gifting us with his casualness. We felt at once completely at ease with him and also internally flustered (which he was aware of), digging for speech and yet reveling in his presence, his being. I felt like a child set loose in a candy shop, who doesn’t know how to take full advantage of this one time enormous opportunity, because his hands can hold only so much, and his belly even less. These were all delicious feelings; all feelings in connection with Srila Prabhupada are sublime. It was pure joy, sheer happiness on an ecstatic level, to be there with him so intimately. At times our sense of awe nervously but delightedly gave way to our irreverent teasing of each other (not of Srila Prabhupada though), showing off for Srila Prabhupada like children will do in front of loving parents. Feeling his fondness for us caused us to behave as capering young children, delighted beyond the ability to contain it. Our joy we expressed through our joking, and though at times it seemed we neglected Srila Prabhupada in these exchanges with each other, I also knew that it was not so, and that our relationships with each other, even when expressed through our good-humored frivolity, was in direct relationship with our mutual wellwishing father. I felt blessed, magically touched, and often found no way to formualte words of praise, or put forth intelligent questions to Srila Prabhupada. It was as if we expressed out hearts and intentions without words but rather through a spontaneous painting of our smiles, glances, and movements. A sort of natural dance, for the pleasure of Srila Prabhupada. And he knew how happy we were, and he lingered solely as a gift especially for us. Such feelings and thoughts of the heart continually spoke to me as our familial exchanges charged the atmosphere with increasing heights of joy. This was Vaikuntha–a place totally without anxieties. Where Srila Prabhupad walked, he brought Vaikuntha. I lost many of the words exchanged in this dream and was left more with the general mood as I have described. However, I remember that Srila Prabhupada said I was more enlightened than I knew. The way he said this made me feel strongly enthused, through his encouragement, and also humble. I saw how he empowers us with his own faith in us, and I know this is how we help each other too, and not by picking at faults. Before Srila Prabhupada appeared, my friend had joked with me about having an acid tongue (I can’t remember the joke though), and when we told Srila Prabhupada about it he laughed. He ate a few bites of something I gave him, a piece of citrus fruit I think, and then he bit in one final time, but didn’t bite off the piece, and handed it back to me. I saw his teeth marks in it. Yesterday I read how one should do all one can to get maha-maha prasad, and I gratefully recalled times when I got to eat after Srila Prabhupada (oh and I now remember as I write this, how I was given an orange slice he had already sucked and eaten, at Bhaktivedanta Manor in 1977, and when I relished it, ii tasted like no orange I had ever tasted. It was perfumey and really indescribable), and as I recalled these special mercies, well naturally I also hankered after them, too. So this dream also fulfilled that craving. Anyway in the dream I took this remnant and placed it inside my lips and imagined it purifying my tongue, my words, making them sweeter, more like Srila Prabhupada’s. We began walking, and it seemed like more devotees were coming and this would be my last opportunity to talk before the men came. So I took the fruit out of my mouth. Srila Prabhupada stopped to lean against a sink and look out the window. I said, “Srila Prabhupada, I put the fruit you were eating, with your teeth marks in it, against my mouth, thinking to cure my acid tongue. If I focused it that way, would it be?” He said, “If you think that way, why should it not happen?” which I immediately understood to mean that if I make that my goal, to speak only Krsna katha, then Krsna would help me achieve that, through whatever facilities were there. And then I asked, “Or because it is maha-maha prasad, from you, would the effect be there anyway [consciously or not]?” This was asked also to please him, as in an enjoyable exchange. Srila Prabhupada looked at me and gave me this long wide smile, with his teeth not showing, and answered with a long, sly, teasing: “Yeeeees”, in that low voice he sometimes has, as if to say: “Now you really understand.” I understand that it is not by my efforts (such as focusing my intentions to improve my tongue through sucking on that maha) that I will become purified, but purely by the sublime and causeless mercy of the pure devotee and Krsna (through gifts like that maha). And gifts such as the association of you wonderful devotees. Thank you for everything, your aspirant servant and sister, Jayaradhe

LOL! I guess you got the cartoons ready just like loading the bullets in, just waiting for the right target.

I understand, brother. This was not put here to offend you, believe me.

Hmm... Do you have some objections to Srila Prabhupada's Peace Formula? Do you think it should be set aside for the time being, that the chanting is not relevant at this time. And do you equate the prime benediction for humanity at large, the chanting of the Supreme Lord's names, the mahamantra, with the mundane peace movement. Do only hippies seek peace. (this written before I saw RA's previous post) Mon Sep 24, 2001 12:59 pm Re: Sankirtan Dear Shashika Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All gloriesd to Srila Prabhupada! It is I who should be thanking you. It appears that your suggestion has been taken up by Iskcon. According to a report on Chakra, all temples will be holding sankirtana on Sept. 29th from 12:00 noon to 3:00 P.M. as a prayer for peace. On Saturday evening, we returned to Union Square Park to continue our ecstatic program of chanting, preaching, book distribution and prasadam distribution. While we were chanting, large crowds would gather and many people could be seen chanting along with the devotees. Union Square has become the focal point for anti-war rallies, so there was a significant police presence at the park, but as long as we were chanting there was no trouble. As the chanting went on, the power of the Holy Name took over the entire scene, so much so, that when we ended the kirtana there was resounding applause. Tonight, we have been offered an incredible opportunity to preach and distribute prasadam, and I will submit a report shortly afterwards to describe it in more detail. Hoping you will be able to take part in one of these harinam programs soon, I remain Your servant, Locanananda dasa (edited for mistakes in doubleposting) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-06-2001).]

Very funny, BB.

Submitted for the further enlivenment of the devotees: Dear Locananda Prabhu, Thanks for the encouragement. It was my desire that all devotees around the world gather at a specific time and chant the holy name in public [global chanting] during this recent catastrophe, but unfortunately my suggestion to senior devotees was never taken up. I was very happy to read about the kirtan at Union Square Park I am really inspired by your enthusiasm. As HH Hridayananda das Goswami wrote to me in support of global chanting "Srila Prabhupada wanted us to be brahmanas to society, a head for the headless society. It is a universal fact that priests in any society must minister to people in their times of distress, and must do so in the most intelligent, sensitive way. At a time when hundreds of millions of people are confused, angry, anguished etc, we should step forward and minister to them." your servant shashika reply to this letter follows, and it keeps getting better...

The Peace Formula by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada The great mistake of modern civilization is to encroach upon other's property as though it were one's own and to thereby create an unnecessary disturbance of the laws of nature. These laws are very strong. No living entity can violate them. Only one who is Krishna conscious can easily overcome the stringency of the laws of nature and thus become happy and peaceful in the world. As a state is protected by the department of law and order, so the state of the Universe, of which this earth is only an insignificant fragment, is protected by the laws of nature. This material nature is one of the different potencies of God, who is the ultimate proprietor of everything that be. This earth is, therefore, the property of God, but we, the living entities, especially the so-called civilized human beings, are claiming God's property as our own, under both an individual and collective false conception. If you want peace, you have to remove this false conception from your mind and from the world. This false claim of proprietorship by the human race on earth is partly or wholly the cause of all disturbances of peace on earth. Foolish and so-called civilized men are claiming proprietary rights on the property of God because they have now become godless. You cannot be happy and peaceful in a godless society. In the Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krishna says that He is the factual enjoyer of all activities of the living entities, that He is the Supreme Lord of all universes, and that He is the well-wishing friend of all beings. When people of the world know this as the formula for peace, it is then and there that peace will prevail. Therefore, if you want peace at all, you will have to change our consciousness into Krishna consciousness, both individually and collectively, by the simple process of chanting the holy name of God. This is a standard and recognized process for achieving peace in the world. We therefore recommend that everyone become Krishna conscious by chanting: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare This is practical, simple, and sublime. Four hundred and eighty years ago this formula was introduced in India by Lord Sri Chaitanya, and now it is available in your country. Take to this simple process of chanting as above mentioned, realize your factual position by reading the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and re-establish your lost relationship with Krishna, God. Peace and prosperity will be the immediate worldwide result.

The Peace Formula by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is the inspiration for this thread. Devotees have been distributing this leaflet in great quantities in the past few weeks. This leaflet was originally distributed in the beginning years of the worldwide Sankirtan movement, starting in the late sixties. This can be printed out inexpensively, and distributed on harinam or in any other innovative ways one can think of. I say we flood the world with the simple formula for peace! Next post: The Peace Formula

Here is the quote: Morning Walk - May 28, 1974, Rome Yogesvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons. Prabhupada: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But "durlabham manusam janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam". You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way.

Very impressive article. Out of all who were quoted in it, I most appreciated the one who spoke of there being valid tenets in both the just war take and the pacifist viewpoint. As transcendentalists, or aspirant transcendentalists, our decisions seems to boil down, as always, to the question of whether our activities are on the level of karma-kanda or not. I mean, Krsna told Arjuna to perform his duty. And we have learned, as devotees, more than most, that there really really is more to things than meets the eye. What may appear to be outrageous to some may be perfectly acceptable on a higher strata. Just like, it is said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta made the comment that he would go so far as to feed meat to people if he thought it would bring them to Krsna; from this we understand his intention was to point out the highest purpose in life. I have always so much appreciated Srila Prabhupada's tteaching us to do the needful, and to be practical, and to make adjustments according to time and circumstance. Nothing is set in stone. If it was, we would automatically know exactly what to do. But there is more to it than that, and that more-ness is yoga, connecting with the divine, gaining that ear for Supersoul, coupled with any specific instructions we may be so fortunate to receive from the guru. It everything was black and white it would be a whole different kettle of fish, and that is our main challenge in this world: coming to that state of knowing what to do. In the meantime, we do our best, and surrender the results to Krsna. What we do know is that one has the right to defend against aggressors, as is stated in the Bhagavad-gita and other places. I have been thinking of the aptness of having the dialogue between Krsna and Arjuna take place on the battlefield, for this certainly challenges the idea that nonviolence is always the msot appropriate action. This was immediately acceptable to me as a new devotee learning about transcendence and devotion to God, even with my background of Be-ins and protest marching. I realise this thread addresses a unique situation: terrorism, but I think what I have said applies regardless. This is why I can neither condemn those who go to fight these people, nor can I condemn those who adhere to the principles of pacifism, which also speak very strongly to me. I'm going to return with a quote from Srila Prabhupada on terrorism. It may not be specific to the question of this thread, but since we see so very few quotes on terrorism--this quote will speak of the mentality of terrorism--I hope you don't mind if I slip this little quote in anyway. Jayaradhe