JRdd

Wow great. I knew of neither event. Anyone with more such current sankirtan stories? [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-06-2001).]

Did anyone read the Mystical Experiences series linked from India Divine's front page? Very strange. It speaks of the North Star having the energy tunnel that the teletransporter beams up through, his/her own spinal column hosting the energy to do that. One could actually transport the parts of the physical body and then reassemble them once where one was aiming to be. The particular tantric who was mentioning as aiming for this achievement was characterirsed as being insatiable in her desires for power. Very spooky, that!

More about The Peace Formula, harinam sankirtan: Tue Sep 25, 2001 12:39 am sankirtana and prasadam distribution Dear prabhus, Hare Krsna! Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I simply want to express my happiness and appreciation for the important, positive and urgent work that our Prabhupadanugas are performing in this hour of need. Let's distribute free food only if it is Krsna prasadam. Let's use our hard earned money (or other people's hard earned money) only to help people understand Krsna's message and engage in His service. Distributing transcendental knowledge and love for God is much needed at this time, even more than ever before. Humans have now the weapons to blow off this whole planet, something that Hiranyaksa only came near to. At this time, we shoud pray to the Lord to descend in the form of His Holy Name and execute His mission: paritranaya sadhunam, vinasaya ca duskrtam dharma samsthapanarthaya. Actually, I would even come to the point of approaching the families of the victims to ask them to engage their money, time and energies in the sankirtana movement for the upliftment of human society, so that by working together we can prevent worse tragedies. When 70% of the world population or more is threatened with destruction in a global war, the relatives of these 8,000 or so victims of 11 Sept attack should feel particularly sensitive to help us to counteract the horrible influences which have led to such disaster and are going to cause even greater destruction. If they use the money they receive simply to build monuments for their dear departed ones (which will be swept away by the greater war) or to build a "safe future" for themselves (on the brink of global disaster), to get themselves a pension (with insurance companies tumbling and stock markets panicking) or to gratify their own senses into oblivion (thus preparing for a next animal or vegetal birth) such use of Krsna's energy will go to waste if not worse. Actually we must accept the fact that ignorant people are going to give money to other ignorant people. We can't scream or insult them into reason. We may get angry at fools, but generally that's not going to make them any wiser. I think we should rather go to the recipients of such ignorant charity, and try to help them to engage properly whatever they have in Krsna's service (prasadam distribution, transcendental literature, etc). This does not mean asking them to give the money TO US (so that we use it for OUR OWN sense gratification or social status symbols, or our children's). This means engaging them personally in activities which are bona fide service to the Lord and hence to humanity and to all living entities of the universe. Please forgive me if I wanted to say something on the matter, but I really felt the need to do so. Your humble servant, Parama Karuna d Tue Sep 25, 2001 5:32 am Re: sankirtana and prasadam distribution Excellent analysis of the situation. I believe that by preaching the message of the Bhagavad-gita, by propagating the chanting of Hare Krishna and by distributing Krishna prasadam, the world can be saved from further disaster. To be executed effectively, this plan will require vaisnavas worldwide to cooperate in the spirit of brotherhood. If we pray to Krishna to inspire everyone to set aside their differences so that they may work together to please Srila Prabhupada, we will be able to do the greatest service for humanity in this hour of need. I agree entirely that devotees should not hesitate to ask the families of vicitims to donate to the sankirtana movement. For devotees to give money to those who are not practicing Krishna consciousness is the exact opposite of what should be done. Your servant, Locanananda dasa

om ajnana timirandasya jnana jnana salakaya caksur unmilitam jnena tasmai sri guruve namah May this thread be one of many threads weaving a cloak of Love for Krsna with which to shelter the world. May the assembled devotees recognise fully the sublime message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and carry this message far and wide, and in the process also be swept along in the inundation. humbly submitted, with thanks and prayers, Jayaradhe dasi

Originally posted by Mvdd: Visoka dasa Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:10 am Debate lessons from Lord Caitanya 1 "Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches debate. Part 1. "How to listen, and refrain from the tendency to slam dunk the opponent. "Disagreements are vanquished..... Cc- Mad 10.119: " From Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila Ch 10 text 119, taken from Sri Caitanya-candrodaya-nataka 8.10. "Excerpt from purport, by Srila Prabhupada: "Note- this is a very powerful purport and verse, take time to read them sometime, CcMad 4, page 167. "So we read from Madhya-lila vol 2, ch 6, "The Liberation of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya," how Sarvabhauma met Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and he asked Him to hear Vedanta philosophy from him. Sri Caitanya accepted this proposal, and for seven days He continuously heard Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya explain Vedanta-sutra. However, the Lord remained very silent. Sarvabhauma asked the Lord why He did not say anything, whether He thought the explanations were right or wrong. Then Sri Caitanya explained, "Note- Here Sri Chaitanya's words are apropos to our current debates. The meanings of the words of Srila Prabhupada "contain clear purports in themselves," but often the purports presented by different factions "simply cover the meanings like a cloud." This is the thread of thought I attempted in post ***, the "root of the problem," how various arbitrary explanations of his final tattva from various camps are prone to cover the actual intrinsic meanings of Srila Prabhupada's...instructions...(clear in themselves) like a cloud covering the sun. By taking this siksa from Lord Caitanya, we shall attempt to grasp the original intrinsic truth from Srila Prabhupada.... "So, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is showing us how to be patient and listen to others. Seven days is real patience! And He didn't respond with some kind of frantic vengeance. Even when Ramachandra Puri rebuked Him with ridiculous charges, Sri Caitanya responded very calmly and soberly, and accepted his ridiculous instructions. In other words, Lord Caitanya didn't slam dunk his opponents, as we shall see in several debates He engaged in. I will try to present more installments on this topic, how His great tolerance and patience and politeness is our example to follow. "Discord shall recede, when we try to please the Lord by our humble attitude and respect for others, and get the Lord's mercy, and be enlightened within by the mercy of the Lord, as seen in this verse from Cc, Mad 4, text 106: ys Visoka dasa"

Can there be more postive inputs to this thread? Heckling is the same old same old. I am certain that was not Ram's intention in starting this thread. I am trying to give positive contributions, as in the debating example of Lord Caitanya, above. If you don't like me, kindly try to control yourselves for the sake of this discussion. Please. I am asking politely.

Hare Krsna! I believe there may be some (deliberate?) misunderstandings here. The egroup is exclusive only in the exact way that Srila Prabhupada's temples were exclusive: Anyone was welcome. But troublemakers were made to leave. I beleive some of the problem in misunderstanding this may be due to lack of experience; those of us who spent many years in his ashrams simply crave that same peaceful harmonious atmosphere. And the kind devotees who created the egroup did so for that express purpose. It is the one place where we know we can go and will not run into the disrepsectful behaviour of you Dvivida gorilla dasas. If one feels excluded, one has excluded himself. A child can not go to an adult function unless the child can behave himself. Simple as that.

I did not see the post above, which came moments before mine. My post refers to the question of everyone here participating in the egroup I mentioned. Here is my answer: This group is pretty much by invitation, when a member recognises someone who he or she deems is respectful of the devotees and of Srila Prabhupada. Not those who harrass or insult others or commit offenses to the acharya. I have not noticed an attempt to remake this forum, so can not answer that. I do notice, however, that some do desire it to have a more harmonious atmosphere. I do wish Jahnava Nitai all the best in his endeavours to keep this forum as such. [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-04-2001).]

Oops. [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-04-2001).]

Hare Krsna. This is such a vital topic. Apart from any systems for debate, there is an attitude. A basic attitude of respectfulness. As we have seen on these forums, respect must come from all sides or the discussion quickly falls apart. The good people leave or give up, as it is not possible to discuss anything with constant heckling. This seems to be a particular problem to cyber-discussions. In a physical meeting place, disrespectful persons would be thrown out. Also in a physical meeting place, few have the guts to speak out in such a manner in the first place, so there is less of a problem. "Here is something from the introductory letter to an egroup I belong to. Nine months later, this group still maintains respect, which results in many useful and sweet loving exchanges as per the true mood of the Vaisnavas. I hope this sheds additional light on this discussion. I edited parts out for the sake of brevity, and added bold. Introduction letter "...my idea was that we are not any faction....We...feel that we all desperately need more devotee association without the harsh rhetoric and fighting. Therefore we make this ironclad rule, no insulting, or foul language, only vaisnava etiquette. We only want to carry out Srila Prabhupada's main concern, that we cooperate together. "So, we would greatly appreciate your cyber association, and, you can discuss or read the topics that you want. "....they must follow the protocol of objective reasoning without personal attacks. This...won't be the same old arguments and insults, etc. It will be strictly regulated by our protocol of discussion. "The point is, we want to come to a collective understanding....How can we all come together in complete cooperation, if we don't have a collective understanding? "I am not totally sure how exclusive we will be in the acceptance or rejection of those who want to participate. Our cover letter explains that they only have to be a "devoted follower of Srila Prabhupada." But then again, many claim to this, and at the same time they contribute to the cause of serious aberrations to his teachings. I think this will work itself out naturally. I personally will not accept those devotees who persistently insult other devotees. That is where I draw the line....The beauty is, that anyone who argues...will have to use objective reasoning and not the usual character attacks, etc. And, most important, we carry the discussion to the full conclusion, without any skirting of questions."

Visoka dasa Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:10 am Debate lessons from Lord Caitanya 1 "Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches debate. Part 1. "How to listen, and refrain from the tendency to slam dunk the opponent. "Disagreements are vanquished..... Cc- Mad 10.119: " From Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila Ch 10 text 119, taken from Sri Caitanya-candrodaya-nataka 8.10. "Excerpt from purport, by Srila Prabhupada: "Note- this is a very powerful purport and verse, take time to read them sometime, CcMad 4, page 167. "So we read from Madhya-lila vol 2, ch 6, "The Liberation of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya," how Sarvabhauma met Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and he asked Him to hear Vedanta philosophy from him. Sri Caitanya accepted this proposal, and for seven days He continuously heard Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya explain Vedanta-sutra. However, the Lord remained very silent. Sarvabhauma asked the Lord why He did not say anything, whether He thought the explanations were right or wrong. Then Sri Caitanya explained, "Note- Here Sri Chaitanya's words are apropos to our current debates. The meanings of the words of Srila Prabhupada "contain clear purports in themselves," but often the purports presented by different factions "simply cover the meanings like a cloud." This is the thread of thought I attempted in post ***, the "root of the problem," how various arbitrary explanations of his final tattva from various camps are prone to cover the actual intrinsic meanings of Srila Prabhupada's...instructions...(clear in themselves) like a cloud covering the sun. By taking this siksa from Lord Caitanya, we shall attempt to grasp the original intrinsic truth from Srila Prabhupada.... "So, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is showing us how to be patient and listen to others. Seven days is real patience! And He didn't respond with some kind of frantic vengeance. Even when Ramachandra Puri rebuked Him with ridiculous charges, Sri Caitanya responded very calmly and soberly, and accepted his ridiculous instructions. In other words, Lord Caitanya didn't slam dunk his opponents, as we shall see in several debates He engaged in. I will try to present more installments on this topic, how His great tolerance and patience and politeness is our example to follow. "Discord shall recede, when we try to please the Lord by our humble attitude and respect for others, and get the Lord's mercy, and be enlightened within by the mercy of the Lord, as seen in this verse from Cc, Mad 4, text 106: ys Visoka dasa"

I like Mr Das' ideas the best. But I got a kick out of your idea of making the exterior look Western and the interior Eastern to depict the Westerners taking the Eastern internally. I wonder what that would look like. Would be fun toplay with that idea, and see if something actually pleasing came up. But I can't imagine anything more pleasing than Vedic versions. I don't know how much things have evolved from the original standards as laid out in the Vashtu shastras, seemed there was or is a lot of importance given to sacred geometry, numerology, and mathematics. But that is maybe not fun for this thread. I love the idea of no pillars. Then again, maybe they simply echo the mood of Vipralambha, I mean even the gopis complained about the creator giving them eyelids that blinked, thus inhibiting their constant gaze upon Madan Mohan. Maybe we're supposed to feel frustrated. But I heard of a temple in South India, and I hope someone else knows of this and can elaborate, where by some clever use of natural magnetism the Deity is suspended in midair. Also I would love to hear about the Shiva temple, also in South India, where the five elements are depicted in different chambers, like there is a ghee lamp whose fire has never gone out, but there was something especially intriguing about the ether chamber. Anyone know? The shoes. Don't you think New Jagannath Puri, in Berkeley, handles the shoe problem well? There are extensive cubbyholes along the inside of the outside wall as you come in, so you don't even see the shoes as you enter. All you have to do is make sure you separate them. Hunting for each one at the end is easier than walking out without a pair. I like the fake balconies in New Jagannath Puri. I would prefer real ones, but in lieu of that, fake is good. I would put dancers on them (carvings). And I also love seeng dasavatara, the ten incarnations, sculpted onto the walls. I did some once for a temple in England. They were repeated all over the walls. The ones in Berkeley are much bigger, and very beautifully painted and decorated. I never get tired of looking at them. Also I think it is great that they have the enormous sculptures of Gaura and Nitai in the center at the back. That would be nice too. I think temples should have more arrangments for disabled or sick people. Softer chairs in back, for one thing. Maybe padded benches along the side walls or something. So no one has to miss darshan due to physical limitations. JR

As far as "free speech" I draw the line at New Agey acceptance and/or tolerance of out-and-out Vaisnava aparadha. Also sexual harrassment and repeated use of gross language. We do need to consider our environment and audience, and maintain appropriate boundaries. Further for the cause of reasonable communications, a la mode of any self-reflective person: Keeping general, and using "I" statements and veering away for "you" statements as much as possible. Divide and conquer may be a militant tactic but it does no good among the devotee community. That's it for me on this thread, but best wishes, bro, and may you be successful in all your righteious endeavours. Jayaradhe (edited for omission of three words) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-03-2001).]

Anyone with half a brain can see there is more to what's going on than the government would like its sheeple to believe. And it seems that those who hold the most patriotism here emulate the government in its bullying tactics to shut everyone up. Can you imagine what the discussions here could be like if we were allowed (without shut-em-up destroyers of reasonable discussions), freedom of speech here, on these forums? As it stands, seems you are either black or you're white and there is no room for in-between. Talk about extremism. (edited to add word left out) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-03-2001).]

I wanted to repost this as it stands out, and my post above only underlines it. Think about it!

Sometimes we are so afraid of being puffed up that we tend to overcompensate by deeming ourselves as inadequate. Seems like if we don't worry so much about the state of our egos, and instead focus on chanting, reading, associating, serving in various ways, we will make far more advancement. This is self peptalk. I spend too much time beating myself over the heart. JR

I don't bother much with it, but sometimes it's spontaneous. But there are tricks too. First thing is to not try to see them. Sounds funny but you may get what I mean. Stay relaxed about it. The fact is, everyone sees them but just don't notice it, just like most of us don't notice our breathing. When you're trying/not trying to see someone's aura, look at them against a white background. This is an excellent way to start. You will see the shimmer, or a transparent sheen. No it is not your imagination. It is there. Seeing colors is another thing. I find it easeir to see colors when I feel them first. It is almost as if you are feeling the colors of the person's aura. A kind of feeling and seeing at the same time. I am going to shut up now before they come to take me away. (ha ha) JR

Echoes to that. I am sure we all wish Maitreya the best in his holy trek. Hare Krsna prabhus, I would like to get back to the topic of this thread. Anyone out there still into talking about this? I pray that the lamp of truth continues to light up this thread, and that our collective inputs allow such illumination. May we all keep that in mind as we proceed in all our dealings with each other, and remember why we are attracted to this format for associating with one another. I beg anyone who becomes filled with emotions that may interfere with decent exchange to please refrain from posting until it passes. It is common to say things one regrets later, and/or say things which simply pollute the whole atmosphere, just as Dvivida Gorilla interfered with the pasttimes of Balarama and the gopis with his grossness. Can’t help it, I keep thinking of Dvivida Gorilla these past few days as I enter this forum .( Those responsible, I thank you for helping me remember Krsna-lila. ) This is a long preamble because this thread is sacred to me. I do not intend to spend my time casually on it. I hope others may approach it in the same way, and hold this sacred thread gently, brahminically; for even if we are not truly brahminical, we can practice behaving like brahmins and then the rest will follow. I am full of faults and hidden anarthas but I post with all the sincerity I can muster so I beg patience from others. Some say I wear my heart on my sleeve (and praise or criticise me for that); others say I am not sharing enough. All I can do is my best, and reveal only as much as I feel appropriate to share on a public platform such as this, no more, and I am extending myself as it is in saying as much as I already do. The attitude called for in holding this thread together is the same attitude required from anyone who hopes to keep any relationship flourishing. These have been my thoughts while reading read this thread as well as the other, having seen various sides of the spectrum displayed. By no means do I intend my observations to be conclusive, so let’s not waste time pointing out the obvious, nor pick at others either, or assume faults in them, but just keep on topic. I invite respectful feedback, and again I ask those who need to dump to go to the appropriate place to do so . Not here. Please be considerate of others. I am still reeling with shock with how Sanjay has been treated in the discussions. (I only hope he was setting the devotees up, and not really a sixteen-year old “new” kid.) These are my thoughts. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that respect is a major key to enduring, productive relationships. (I pause here for the “duhs”) Maybe it’s an obvious point, but I believe it is worth discussing, because a lot of things are obvious to us yet how much have we assimilated? How much do we speak and act on the things we “know”? In Nectar of Devotion Srila Prabhupada speaks of repetition being most useful for remembering, and remembering, of course, leads to assimilation. He also said to discuss things threadbare. He encouraged us to look at things from all sides, and not accept anything with our eyes closed. This idea of respect being the key keeps hitting me as I read the two threads, as well as recall the successful marriages I know. This is of course a generalization, but the married men who post here seem to focus less on the problems of lust and bodily consciousness than on positive aspects of Krishna consciousness. They seem almost consistently to encourage others, and maintain gentle respectful behavior. This puts marriage in a good light, if there truly is a correlation between marriage and peacefulness which inclines one to respectful dealings with others. Following on from this, my observations also dare me to ask: Does maturity develop more easily through the mutual encouragement and give-and-take of an earnest partnership? Long-term married people often seem less neurotic, happier people, from what I have observed. This calls to mind Srila Prabhupada’s statement that marriage is the best of both worlds. Also I must admit that in the past I have often thought that if I were ever to post a personals ad, one of the things I would have stated as a preference would be to meet a man who had already had experience in give and take, and preferably a father. Not a must, but a preference. I say this because I think there is a lot to be said for experience, such as is shared by people bound by loyalty, with spiritual development their key aim. Seems true to me that good qualities would develop in such a situation, where one learns to compromise for the sake of unity of purpose. Just another little cheer for the marriage institution! It truly is a process which works if one works it, sans half-heartedness. People might not want to touch this topic. It may seem to point the finger at those who are not married. I myself may not have stated my opinions in a way that will not cause consternation to some. Forgive me; it is not easy to see one’s own false ego. These are, as I said, my observations, not intended to be solid conclusions not to offend anyone, more just food for thought, and I would be interested in others’ respectful feedback. Thanks, look forward to hearing from you, aspiring for your good association, Jayaradhe (edited to add a sentence I left out) [This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 09-29-2001).]

I can see auras, but why do you want to?

Wow, wonderful post, poet. I was also thinking that Sanjaya seemed to understand so much that I almost wondered if the devotees were being set up, tested. If so, some failed miserably, but the rest of you showed heart. Best wishes back to our Sanjaya! Hare Krsna! ys, Jayaradhe

I would like to express my appreciation to leyh for his sincere and thoughtful posts. Thankfully, Jayaradhe dasi Other appreciations may follow; it's an open mike. Don't be shy, you won't be asked to sing if you don't want.

No way Jose! Fraid not!

Well well well. Very interesting, the feedback to my little experiment here, to see what responses would come. Very very immature, over all, what to speak of other revealing things. Valaya shines though. Also Jahnava Nitai, who must have seen it for himself and pulled it, and who has the natural sense of a gentleman. Lame web page? I speak not for myself as it is not my art and writings; I only did the donkey work; I speak on behalf of the gurus represented there, as well as the Supreme Personalilty of Godhead Himself and His consort and devotees. What is lame about beautiful images of the Lord, and the writings of His devotees? Supercow, once again you seem to be going off the deep end. Please get hold of yourself. Chant like crazy and pray to become freed from your strange mentality. I see some blissful association peeking out from your being. It needs to shine out more. wishing you the best, Jayaradhe

Never know where to post these things. Look at this, prabhus: Dear Prabhus, Pranama. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! I have just started an internet radio with classes and bhajans from Srila Prabhupada. You can tune in any time of the day and night and Srila Prabhupada can be heard. I hope the vaisnava community will appreciate this humble service. Here is the address: http://www.prabhupadaradio.com/ Your servant, Pragosh das When you logon: http://www.prabhupadaradio.com/ you don't have to click on anything, the program is on. Unfortunately, there is no way to know the details of what is playing but to give you an idea of the sequence, here is the program: Bhagavad-gita class: Introduction - Everyone has individuality - LA Nov 23, 1968 Bhagavad-gita class: Introduction to Bhagavad-gita - NY Feb 19, 1966 Bhagavad-gita class: When to approach a guru - DU Oct 17, 1975 Bhagavad-gita class: Satisfying the senses - PA Aug 16, 1973 Bhagavad-gita class: Revive Relationship with Krsna - LA Nov 27, 1968 Bhagavad-gita class: Surpassing these senses - LO Aug 8, 1973 Bhagavad-gita class: First recorded Bg lecture - NY March 1966 Bhagavad-gita class: You must approach Krsna - LO Aug 7, 1973 Bhagavad-gita class: To utilize fighting spirit - LO Aug 6, 1973 Bhagavad-gita class: When To Reject Guru - LO Aug 5, 1973 Yasomati-nandana Sri Sri Sad-gosvami-astaka Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Jaya Radhe, jaya Krsna Gaura Pahou Sri Sri Guru-astaka Sri Brahma-Samhita Jaya Radha-Madhava Hare Krishna Mantra There is alternation of a class and a bhajan and this program repeats itself continuously. The program will change every week. Sometimes, due to technical difficulties, the program may have to be reinitiated from the beginning. Example:general power failure I would like to hear comments from different modem users (28K - 56K - Cable....) How is the reception? Your servant, Pragosh das

LOL!!! Wasn't thinking of the turtles as you well know. I think you have to be in a small body for a turtle kidnapping to take place. JR