Bhaktavasya

Bhagavad Gita 2.29 "Some look on the soul as amazing (a wonder) some describe it as amazing, yet even after hearing about it none can fathom it at all."

MSN Search reveals: there are 113,367 songs with the word soul in them.

Tantra is Vedic (derived from the teachings of the Vedas); don't you mean 'what is the difference between Bhakti Yoga and the Tantric arts?

A verse from Srila Rupa Goswami's Padyavali: "Go ahead and worship Lord Brahma! Go ahead and worship Lord Shiva! Go ahead and worship the Supreme Brahman; I shall not follow you! I shall simply worship the Vrndavan forest, which brought transcendental delight to Lord Krishna. From the Raghupati Upadhayaya "Those who are afraid of material existence worship Vedic literature; some worship smrti, and others worship the Mahabharata. As far as I am concerned, I worship Maharaja Nanda, in whose courtyard the Supreme Brahman, Krishna, is playing.

A verse from Srila Rupa Goswami's Padyavali: "Go ahead and worship Lord Brahma! Go ahead and worship Lord Shiva! Go ahead and worship the Supreme Brahman; I shall not follow you! I shall simply worship the Vrndavan forest, which brought transcendental delight to Lord Krishna. From the Raghupati Upadhayaya "Those who are afraid of material existence worship Vedic literature; some worship smrti, and others worship the Mahabharata. As far as I am concerned, I worship Maharaja Nanda, in whose courtyard the Supreme Brahman, Krishna, is playing.

testing

Looks from here like Leyh IS the new guru after all. Tarun, some of the stuff you say is funny, sometimes interesting and sometimes makes me sick to know we have the same guru. I'd actually forgotten about your pro-Hitler/holocast-denying stance. It's not too late to repent; Hitler was extreme demon, and he was fuelled and empowered by people who ignored or minimized the monsterous evil he inflicted on innocent human beings. He tried to imitate Vishnu, steal His symbols, much like your president Bush with his Operation Enduring Freedom, while innocent people who have nothing to do with what happened on Sept. 11 die horrible deaths in caves,through 'calateral damage' and as 'brave souls' sacrificing their lives for another New World Order.

Srila Prabhupad himself dissapproved of idol worship(as opposed to Deity worship). For example, at one time in Dallas the installed dieties of Jagannath, Balarama and Subhadra (I believe it was these deities and someone can correct me if I'm wrong,about which deities that is) were put in a closet because it was becoming to difficult to maintain Their worship (in the words of the purjaris). When Srila Prabhupada found out he was not at all pleased and declared "This is idol worship." The deities were then rescued from their banishment to the closet and placed back on the altar again to be worshipped. Then there is the famous quote "One who considers the Deity to be made of stone is possessed of a hellish mentality." The Diety is sat-cit-ananda, pure Spirit, agreeing out of mercy to a seemingly material form to accept worship. Ideally, the bhakta who develops the vision to see the living God within the Deity can also see the same Divinity within the hearts of other living beings.

Srila Prabhupad himself dissapproved of idol worship(as opposed to Deity worship). For example, at one time in Dallas the installed dieties of Jagannath, Balarama and Subhadra (I believe it was these deities and someone can correct me if I'm wrong,about which deities that is) were put in a closet because it was becoming to difficult to maintain Their worship (in the words of the purjaris). When Srila Prabhupada found out he was not at all pleased and declared "This is idol worship." The deities were then rescued from their banishment to the closet and placed back on the altar again to be worshipped. Then there is the famous quote "One who considers the Deity to be made of stone is possessed of a hellish mentality." The Diety is sat-cit-ananda, pure Spirit, agreeing out of mercy to a seemingly material form to accept worship. Ideally, the bhakta who develops the vision to see the living God within the Deity can also see the same Divinity within the hearts of other living beings.

I would like to contribute to this discussion with a couple of verses from the Brahma Samhita, which may help shed light on why Brahma is not worshipped in a 'big way'. If everything is based on desire, or lack of it, then Brahma's meditations on Govinda,the primeval Lord, Goloka dhama and so on may have left him desireous of nothing but that vision; the desire to be worshipped would be absent as evidenced in each verse/prayer where Brahma begins with "I worship Govinda, the primeval lord" or "I adore the same Govinda, the primeval lord.." Anyway, here's a couple of prayers from the Brahma Samhita: 32. I worship Govinda, the primeval lord, whose transcndental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and the most dazzling splendour. Each of the limbs of that transcendental body possesses the fulfledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane. 33. I worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay and is without beginning, whose form is endless who is the beginning and the eternal Purusha; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth. 55. I adore the primeval lord Govinda, the meditators of whom, by meditating upon Him under the sway of wrath, amorous passion, natural friendly love, fear, parental affection, delusion, reverence and willing service, attain to bodily forms befitting the nature of their contemplation.

I would like to contribute to this discussion with a couple of verses from the Brahma Samhita, which may help shed light on why Brahma is not worshipped in a 'big way'. If everything is based on desire, or lack of it, then Brahma's meditations on Govinda,the primeval Lord, Goloka dhama and so on may have left him desireous of nothing but that vision; the desire to be worshipped would be absent as evidenced in each verse/prayer where Brahma begins with "I worship Govinda, the primeval lord" or "I adore the same Govinda, the primeval lord.." Anyway, here's a couple of prayers from the Brahma Samhita: 32. I worship Govinda, the primeval lord, whose transcndental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and the most dazzling splendour. Each of the limbs of that transcendental body possesses the fulfledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane. 33. I worship Govinda, the primeval lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay and is without beginning, whose form is endless who is the beginning and the eternal Purusha; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth. 55. I adore the primeval lord Govinda, the meditators of whom, by meditating upon Him under the sway of wrath, amorous passion, natural friendly love, fear, parental affection, delusion, reverence and willing service, attain to bodily forms befitting the nature of their contemplation.

applause!

this is not really a joke, but a question. All this time I thought gHari was (is) Gaura hari, who is in a male body, initiated by Srila Prabhupad (and apparently has taken diksha again from Narayana Maharaja). So, assuming that you are not joking about being in a female body, is it safe to conclude that you and Gaura Hari the male-embodied one are 2 separate entities?

The message was to Tarun, who is a big enough boy to answer for himself. The key words were 'deserved' and 'offending great souls'. I obviously (along with everyone else besides Jndas) don't have the power to ban anyone, nor would I ban anyone from speaking their minds if I did have the power. I was making the (perhaps more subtle) connection between Talasiga, (who has never spoken an offensive 'barb' to anyone or towards any manifestation of the Godhead) and Tarun, who I PERSONALLY (and God consciousness is also about personalism,yes?) recall that insult to Mother Kunthi whenever I see his name. Then again, I may have the wrong person, may have mixed up the name (the senses being faulty), and therefore was double-checking to make sure.

"In the spiritual world, time is conspicuous by it's absense." Although I can't remember where this quote is from, most likely the Krishna Book, but it's definetly from SP's books. When Krishna says "Time I am", in reference to the temporairy material worlds, which have a beginning and a dissolution, He is reaffirming another quote from the Bhagavad Gita; "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds". The spiritual world has no beginning and no end, therefore time cannot erode or effect the activities there. It would be safe to conclude that as we revive our original spiritual consciousness, we are in effect beginning to live in the spiritual world, so time will not have the same effect as one living in and identifying with the temporal world as the all and all.

Well, Jayaradhe DID recommend humour!

Tarun, correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't you the same person who so viciously slagged Queen Kunthi, the Mother of the Pandavas, on the vnn. forum? You seem to have a hatred (disguised as joking)for some of Krishna's eternal family members; women in particular. If anyone deserved to be banned for 'offenses to great devotees', you should be on the top of the list.

"Time I am, destroyer of all the worlds, and I have come to engage all men (women)." Lord Krishna refers to lust as the all-devouring, sinful enemy of the world. Lust has been generally mistaken (by iskcon devotees mainly) to refer to sexual desire, when lust for power, lust for fame and lust for the body without any love for the person inside is probably a better understanding of the meaning of the word.

Lord Krishna in Bhagavad Gita: "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. The soul is immortal, eternal and is not slain when the body is slain." "Many births both you and I have passed; I can remember them all, Arjuna, whereas you cannot." Buddists also believe in reincarnation, as do many, many people these days who do not necessarily consider themselves religionists. Reincarnation makes perfect sense to those who accept it on the basis that we keep getting a chance over and over again to improve ourselves and learn valuable lessons. Proof of reincarnation is evident, for example, in the life of Mozart, who could compose a symphony at the age of 5, obviously picking up where he left on in a previous birth. Also, we see humans who are very wise and mature, even at a young age. They are usually referred to as 'old souls'. Again, to quote Lord Krishna: "For one who is born, death is certain and for one who has died, birth is certain." For devotees, especially those following in the line of Sri Chaitanya & his intimate associates, whether we take birth in any of the material universes or go back to the spiritual world is irrelevant, as long as we are blessed with service to Radha and Krishna and Their dear devotees.

Goes to show how much you know; Srila Prabhupada said often "we are not Hindus", and Sri Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda certainly did not promote the caste system, where someone is considered superior according to birth and higher caste.

Goes to show how much you know; Srila Prabhupada said often "we are not Hindus", and Sri Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda certainly did not promote the caste system, where someone is considered superior according to birth and higher caste.

Bhaktivinode Thakhur said that the 5th canto was fictious, meant for those people who could only change through fear. If you want to believe that people who drink alcohol go to a planet where hot metal is poured down their throats, fine.Or if a man embraces a woman he has to embrace a hot iron woman. In the Mahabarata the Pandavas had a party where large quantities of liquour were consumed, and although I don't have a copy of the Mahabharata handy, I recall that the Pandavas drank up, but didn't get so drunk that they passed out and did the other guests. And I don't personally worship or love the Parasurama incarnation. I do pick and choose and it's called taking the essence.

Bhaktivinode Thakhur said that the 5th canto was fictious, meant for those people who could only change through fear. If you want to believe that people who drink alcohol go to a planet where hot metal is poured down their throats, fine.Or if a man embraces a woman he has to embrace a hot iron woman. In the Mahabarata the Pandavas had a party where large quantities of liquour were consumed, and although I don't have a copy of the Mahabharata handy, I recall that the Pandavas drank up, but didn't get so drunk that they passed out and did the other guests. And I don't personally worship or love the Parasurama incarnation. I do pick and choose and it's called taking the essence.