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Bhaktavasya

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  1. If you remember, Theist, 'Krishna dasi' said on VNN that she has recieved brain injuries before coming to ISKCON and had been recieving a government pension because of her problems. The 'new story' of S. Swami having a woman killed because of having or wanting to have sex with her is new; to my knowledge there was one SP female disciple there who was machettied to death by government thug/solider in Africa (here name I will not sully by mentioning it here). Some people are damaged and begin to believe thier own stories...still the danger of condemning someone who just may be totally innocent.
  2. I've just finished reading through this entire topic and from another islander's distant (from the workings of iskcon) point of view, I must lean towards Shiva and Stone-hearteds more liberal (a quality of Krishna!) perspectives, and admire Debbie's sage-like advise. As Srila Prabhupad said "Krishna consciousness is not a static process, it is dynamic." Whatever brings the multitudes to Mahaprabhu's mission of mercy (MMM..)would please Prabhupad more than anything.
  3. Manni, it only occurred to me later that in your opening post you stated that Mohini Murti distributed the real nectar to the demigods and ordinairy nectar to the demons. It didn't sound correct, so I double-checked (Srimad Bhagwatam Canto 8 ch.9)and there is no mention of Mohini Murti giving ordinary nectar to the demons. Please read the chapter again, with attention to verse 26, and you'll see that there was only one jug of nectar (originally from Lord Danvantari)and that Vishnu as Mohini Murti decided to distribute it to all the demigods. The demon Rahu disguised himself in the dress of a demigod and sat in line to receive the nectar. As soon as he began to drink it Lord Vishnu (Mohini Murti)immediately detected his real identity as a demon as invoked his disc (Sudarsana chakra)and severed Rahu's head from the rest of his body. Because of the effects of the ambrosia the demons head remained immortal although the rest of his body died. So, as the legend has it, whenever there is an eclipse of the moon (where the soma is said to originate)it is the head of the demon Rahu trying to swallow the moon.
  4. Don't you mean Mohini Murti instead of Rohini? Mohini Murti is the one who is Krishna in the form of a woman from the story of the battle between the demigods and the demons for the nectar of immortality. Rohini is the mother of Balarama. But you probably just made a spelling mistake. The story of the demigods and demons fighting for the nectar of immortality, I would say, is more a lesson on cooperation in getting things done (the demigods and demons working together to churn the ocean)and that the immortal nectar represents temporairy enjoyment that is the fate of the demons and eternality in our godly or spiritual bodies. Also that sometimes it may seem that Vishnu is encouraging the demons but in the end He (or She in this form)shows favour to the demigods or the godly.
  5. This is why community is so important. The early days of the Hare Krishna movement were full of examples (just because the stories haven't been told doesn't mean it never happened)of devotees who would never have been able to take care of themselves or 'make it' in the harsh world of materialistic consciousness and were surely destined to become fodder for the experimentation of newer and newer drugs that are often more harmful than beneficial. Or left to die in the streets. Many of them blossomed into dancing 'fairy-like' adult children, singing and walzing with the floor-mop. Occasionally talking to it but not a problem. A disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was said to be so humble that he would offer obeisances to the sweeping broom in the corner of the temple. Some of them even became notorious leaders but that's another story. There is a growing movement towards reconsidering the role of anti-pyschotic, anti-depressent drugs in curing the chemical imbalances of the brain (they have never been able to cure, only suppress and dull the 'symptoms')and the role of vitamins and minerals in correcting the imbalance along with stress free enviroments, diet and excercise. Also just as valuable is the role of community in assisting and most importantly befriending those who are 'disleveled with no place to go'. Having family and friends is often what makes a difference between the 'hopeless cases' and the ones who can eventually get on with their lives but the people you are referring to apparently don't have any left living who care. BTW, are there any prasadam programs for the homeless there in the Frisco Bay area?
  6. This is why community is so important. The early days of the Hare Krishna movement were full of examples (just because the stories haven't been told doesn't mean it never happened)of devotees who would never have been able to take care of themselves or 'make it' in the harsh world of materialistic consciousness and were surely destined to become fodder for the experimentation of newer and newer drugs that are often more harmful than beneficial. Or left to die in the streets. Many of them blossomed into dancing 'fairy-like' adult children, singing and walzing with the floor-mop. Occasionally talking to it but not a problem. A disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was said to be so humble that he would offer obeisances to the sweeping broom in the corner of the temple. Some of them even became notorious leaders but that's another story. There is a growing movement towards reconsidering the role of anti-pyschotic, anti-depressent drugs in curing the chemical imbalances of the brain (they have never been able to cure, only suppress and dull the 'symptoms')and the role of vitamins and minerals in correcting the imbalance along with stress free enviroments, diet and excercise. Also just as valuable is the role of community in assisting and most importantly befriending those who are 'disleveled with no place to go'. Having family and friends is often what makes a difference between the 'hopeless cases' and the ones who can eventually get on with their lives but the people you are referring to apparently don't have any left living who care. BTW, are there any prasadam programs for the homeless there in the Frisco Bay area?
  7. I'm thankful this subject has come up. Two of my three children were diagnosed with schizophtenia at separate times. The first time was with my youngest son when he was 17 and went on an lsd trip despite my warnings of 'been there, done that' and better if he just avoided it. He's a very sensitive person who thinks too deeply at times. He'd been reading stuff like Naom Chompsky while hanging out with friends who were into Heavy Metal, that coupled with obsession with video games wasn't exactly the perfect environment to 'explore' mind-expanding drugs. When I came home one night he and his friend were 'flying' on something and being experienced in these fields, I knew right away. They had drawn a map of the world and renamed the countries, tripped out on being future lords and controllers of the planet. I didn't know how to handle it so I went to bed hopeing he'd come down by morning. He didn't come down for days without sleep and ended up in the hospital. A young doctor gave the diagnosis and when I said it was the lsd he referred to 'recent research' that says a person 'always' comes down after 8 hours. My real-life research indicated that it's not always the case. With the help of the same friends who assisted him in getting messed up, he came out of his mega-delusion eventually but it took a couple of months. He's now sane, clear, preparing to go to get a degree in law and escaped the life-long medication and intervention (here in Canada)that goes with being diagnosed as schizophrenic. My other child was not so lucky. Doesn't do or like drugs or alcohol but had a severe emotional breakdown, a series of them that got her certified and in and out of hospitals for years. Only recently have things changed for the better when she began seeing a renowned physiciatrist,Dr. Abraham Hoffer, who is an expert on treating schizophrenia with vitamins and herbal remedies. After months we received her medical files and discovered that at times she'd been on 5 different kinds of medication while in hospital and then interviewed to determine her 'state of mind'. Since coming off the heavy medications she is becoming more clear and focused, less depressed and hasn't exhibited the pychotic states she was in while being 'under the care' of the pychiatric hospitals. A new puppy has done wonders and now that she isn't insistent on living on her own (making it on her own)she's become more secure and less paranoid. I think my point is that often people are labelled and misdiagnosed with schizophrenia or bi-polar when it could be other reasons for a person being in a temporairy state of pyschosis or delusion.
  8. I'm thankful this subject has come up. Two of my three children were diagnosed with schizophtenia at separate times. The first time was with my youngest son when he was 17 and went on an lsd trip despite my warnings of 'been there, done that' and better if he just avoided it. He's a very sensitive person who thinks too deeply at times. He'd been reading stuff like Naom Chompsky while hanging out with friends who were into Heavy Metal, that coupled with obsession with video games wasn't exactly the perfect environment to 'explore' mind-expanding drugs. When I came home one night he and his friend were 'flying' on something and being experienced in these fields, I knew right away. They had drawn a map of the world and renamed the countries, tripped out on being future lords and controllers of the planet. I didn't know how to handle it so I went to bed hopeing he'd come down by morning. He didn't come down for days without sleep and ended up in the hospital. A young doctor gave the diagnosis and when I said it was the lsd he referred to 'recent research' that says a person 'always' comes down after 8 hours. My real-life research indicated that it's not always the case. With the help of the same friends who assisted him in getting messed up, he came out of his mega-delusion eventually but it took a couple of months. He's now sane, clear, preparing to go to get a degree in law and escaped the life-long medication and intervention (here in Canada)that goes with being diagnosed as schizophrenic. My other child was not so lucky. Doesn't do or like drugs or alcohol but had a severe emotional breakdown, a series of them that got her certified and in and out of hospitals for years. Only recently have things changed for the better when she began seeing a renowned physiciatrist,Dr. Abraham Hoffer, who is an expert on treating schizophrenia with vitamins and herbal remedies. After months we received her medical files and discovered that at times she'd been on 5 different kinds of medication while in hospital and then interviewed to determine her 'state of mind'. Since coming off the heavy medications she is becoming more clear and focused, less depressed and hasn't exhibited the pychotic states she was in while being 'under the care' of the pychiatric hospitals. A new puppy has done wonders and now that she isn't insistent on living on her own (making it on her own)she's become more secure and less paranoid. I think my point is that often people are labelled and misdiagnosed with schizophrenia or bi-polar when it could be other reasons for a person being in a temporairy state of pyschosis or delusion.
  9. Take for example a woman who is living alone or is the sole maintainer of her family and home. If she has Deities in her home, should she refrain from worshipping Them because she is on her menstrual cycle? I don't think so. On the other hand the puja that has been established in Hindu-oriented temples and in ISKCON temples follow a traditon that has gone on for so long that it will probably never be changed in that environment. When we think of how not only western women but all non-Indians are still forbidden to worship at Lord Jagannatha's temple in Puri and of the orthodox sects who wouldn't allow a woman to perform the puja ceremony and chant the gayatri mantra unless they received it from their husbands, then we can appreciate that contribution Srila Prabhupad made to revolutionize Krishna consciousness and expand the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
  10. Yes, it's very interesting that at one time only brahmins were allowed to study the Vedas, and of course they had to be in male bodies. Then along comes Lord Caitanya and his associates, who "broke open the storehouse of love of God" (which the Vedas all point to) "and distributed it's contents to everyone." Srila Prabhupad certainly 'broke the mould' when he gave brahmin initiation not only to women but to people who were formerly considered in the Vedas to be untouchables and of inferior, more primitive races. (Hanuman ki jai!) He fulfilled the desire of Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati by arranging for the distribution of 'Everything you need to know about Krishna and the Vedas...and more!" to "whosoever shall take it". Some 'trickery' was involved in 'getting out the books' while Prabhupad was alive but the intent was 'getting the message out' that the caste system is history (so to speak)and that God has incarnated in His and Her holy names. Devotees may not always be brahmins and brahmins may not always be devotees of Krishna. Becoming a devotee is more important than taking initiation as a brahmin.
  11. What is this talk of brahmins and sudras? A brahmin can be corrupt and not a devotee of Krishna (witness the story of the brahmins who impecably worshipped Vishnu but refused to give food to Krishna and Balarama, and Srila Prabhupad's own telling of the parable of the prostitute and the brahmin, that the former was always engaged in thoughts of what was going on in the temple despite her external activities and the brahmin was always thinking of (imagining)the fallen activities of the prostitute. She went back to Godhead whereas the brahmin went to hell (according to Prabhupad)for his offensive mind. "I am not a vaisya or a sudra, a grhasta or a vanaprasta or a sannyasi. I am the eternal servant of the servant of Krishna, the lover & master of the Gopis." Sri Caitanya
  12. You quote your Mother as saying this after she was left alone to raise the children without your father; it would be hard to make a 'rational' comparison to the male figure in this equation if your father was absent. Maybe your father would have been more emotional if he had been left to raise the children alone. Besides, being emotional isn't a defect or a sign of inferiority, is it? Mother Yasoda got very emotional when Krishna seemed to be caught in Kaliya serpent's coils.
  13. I remain reeling from the impact of your strong reminder that it is Krishna and no-one else who is the protects and (hopefully) controls us. Yes, who was it Mirabai went to see in Vrndavan, and (the way I heard it) Rupa or Sanatana refused (externally)to see her at first because of their vow prohibiting association with women. When she sent back the message that Krishna is the only male in Vrndavan, he gave granted her a personal darshan.
  14. All this time I'd assumed Rupa and Sanatana were born Muslim. Thanks for correcting that. Back to women in scripture, prayers by Queen Kunti are an example of a devotee in a female body whose mind is fixed on Krishna in love "As the Ganges flows to the sea without hindrance may my mind be constantly drawn towards you without being diverted to anyone else" and humility "How can we women know you perfectly". The gopis of Vrndavan were simple, uneducated 'women' who practised austerites in male bodies (some of them) during the time of Lord Ramacandra to be able to love Krishna in the most pure and perfect way, so much so that both males and females in our tradition are encouraged to try to follow in their footsteps. When the scriptures say that women are 'like children' and should be protected it harkens back at a time when women were completely dependent on the men to defend them and provide for them. The times have changed and with it women's roles in society. Many women today work outside the home to 'bring home the prasadam', pay the rent and in many cases raise the children on their own. If we ever were 'like children' we have had to grow up and become mature adults, having to make decisions that were formerly the domain of the men. Ultimately, both men and women need to depend on the Lord alone and it is only He who can give protection and not the 'fallible soldiers' in the form of husbands, fathers and sons.
  15. Your work does not equate with your devotional merits. A man or woman born sudra can and has shown to have the highest love for God in our scriptures. So-called low birth does not indicate sinfulness. Rupa and Sanatana Goswamis and Hari das thakhur were all born in muslim, meat-eating families yet they are our acharyas for entering into Vraja lila. Inferior and superior have no place in Vrndavan. Who loves Krishna the most is the hallmark of devotion be it male or female embodied.
  16. Excuse my ignorance but what does 'create your account' mean?
  17. Theist; Bhagavad Gita 16th chapter, divine and demoniac natures (godly and ungodly) is a good place to start (smiley face). Referring to evil in high places, here's Krishna's estimation: BG 16.15: They think,"I have gained this today. This desire I shall attain fulfillment of next. This is mine, and it will increase in the future. That enemy has been slain by me and I shall slay others as well. I am the lord, I am the enjoyer. I am successful, powerful and happy. I am wealthy and of high birth. Who is equal to me? I shall give sacrifice, charity and rejoice." Thus they are deluded by ignorance. As for MacDonald's, the founder is dead (his wife is apparently vegetarian but has never had the power to change the menu because of the will and control of the stockholders)and the people who eat there are ignorant but not evil. Eventually enough information and tastier alternatives will convince the masses to switch over to a less meat-dependent diet. My comment about devotees on this thread being unable to conceive of the existence of evil must be tempered with the understanding that when we get off our keyboards and walk outside the door (or turn on the news) we know evil exists in the world, and it's refreshing to come to a place, be in a state of mind, where evil doesn't exist.
  18. This is so amazing, that the CONCEPT of evil cannot exist in the minds of the 'swan-like' devotees on this thread! That's what remembering, praying and wanting to be with Krishna will do for you! Gauracandra; Certainly evil exists in world. You mention Lucifer as connected to the personality of Kali who was beating Mother Bhumi, heralding the the Age of Kali as defined as the age of hypocrisy and quarrel. So the Luciferian 'qualities' fit with anyone who is inflicting pain on another, lieing, and quarrelling (warring). See it live on CNN and other places. Hopefully, if we've made any spiritual progess at all we've been able to give all that up, value honesty and be careful not to cause pain to anyone by our actions and words. So everyone agrees, fallen devotees (or fallen souls) doesn't equate with evil, that they are in two different worlds. Especially when they can remember Krishna even when they're flat on their backs!
  19. Bhakta Joy; You may be setting yourself up for no replies by asking 'the great devotees' to help you as no devotee in his/her right spiritual mind would answer to that call! Seriously though, bi-polar disease is no laughing matter and I can sympathize with your situation. Have you been diagnosed with this illness, and if so what has your doctor recommended? Have you tried natural homopathic medicene? I don't know how to advise you because I'm not a physician but I do know that bi-polar is a chemical imbalance in the brain that can be helped with vitamins and minerals, (folic acid and niacin are helpful)and excercise that's not too demanding, like walking. You say you can't even get up; is this also due to depression? In my opinion your illness isn't because of offenses you 'think' you may have made towards devotees in your mind or through words because if that was true then most of us who are still neophytes on the path would be dead by now. Conversely, there are many elevated devotees who have become sick and have even died with cancers and other terrible diseases. Don't feel that you can't take shelter of the Lord by praying even more intensely for mercy, even (or especially)if you're flat out on your back. You can still read His comforting words in Bhagavad Gita and you can chant, even if you have to whisper the holy names. The mind is such a powerful thing, if you can visualize yourself as being in a healthy state, both physically and mentally and have faith that Krishna wants you to be happy, He doesn't want you to suffer in silence. Sometimes we think it's our karma to suffer, so we give in to it and accept it. On the other hand, if there seems to be nothing we can do to prevent a suffering condition then we can learn tolerance and know that it is still a temporairy condition. Whether in this lifetime or the next, we will return to our natural, blissful state where we can think of Krishna without obstructions. Don't be afraid to surrender your mind to Krishna. He is a gentle master and He loves you unconditionally, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, never to part even in Death. May you find peace in Their all-compassionate presence.
  20. Fallen and evil are sometimes interspersed, as if the two were synonymous. Fallen can mean that you've fallen down, (tumbled down) from your spiritual practise. There's no rising early, chanting the mala (except sometimes when you keep it under your pillow for 'old time's sake') When you're addicted to things that aren't good for your health (for devotees it could be a ploy for being taken Home soon), when you forgot that 'the world' outside (besides Nature) runs on money and you never bothered to get yourself some then you're a loser in the eyes of society and a loser in the eyes of the religionists who promote the creed that poverty equals bad karma. Even more fallen are the ones who are homeless, addicted to soul-destroying drugs and cheap wine, and bereft of the even the concept of prasadam and the glories of the holy names. Lord Caitanya's mission is to deliver the most fallen. (Junkies can't eat solid food well, perhaps orange-juice buttermilk nectar and simply wonderful sweetballs could be distributed to "those who have no hope for spiritual realization" (from the Caitanya Caritamrita), some sweet kirtan and single sheet pamplets with the holy names written in large lettering with translation. Patita Pavana, Sita Rama. Then there's evil. Evil often goes to church, evil sits in high places where policy makers are willing to sacrifice hundeds of thousands of lives for the acquisition of oil fields and world domination. Evil can rise early, evil can work 18 hour days and evil in the higher echelons of world power is usually rich and gets a lot of respect. Good karma? Evil can also be in the heart of a poor man, a damaged soul (like the Gulf War veteran sniper)and to some degree in our own minds. Other views on this?
  21. Spiritual guidance is not only found in India. Although Krishna appeared in the place now called India, He is the Lord of everyone's heart, and there are many friends, lovers and servants of Krishna all over the world. As it is said "By the mercy of God, one finds his/her guru, and by the mercy of guru, one finds God." Good luck on your search!
  22. Thankyou for enlightening me with few words. Some-one once taught me that "Gadadhara is the incarnation of Candravali in Vraja and Rukmini in Dwarka." He spoke of the defining mood/characteristic of all 3 incarnations of the same personality, and now you are explaining it in a much more expansive way. In other words, Candravali in Vraja doesn't incarnate (as in a paraellel universe)in Dwarka as Rukmini; they are separate yet distinct persons who resonate with the same bhava? And that Gadadhara is a separate personality who's bhava is similar to Candravali and Rukimini?
  23. I agree with you 99%; "Always remember Krishna, (*His words, pastimes, his promise to his devotees)and never forget Him." The one sentence can be expanded on limitlessly. For example, praying (vandanam)to be able to remember *Krishna is a theme that comes up in the lives of Krishna's devotees, from Prahlad to Queen Kunti and in Narada Muni's case (in one lifetime)to be able to have direct darshan once again. The spiritual master gives the gift of reminding us how to pray and to Whom we are praying. A gentle order, requested with love.
  24. Is it true that Candravali manifests herself as Rukmini in Dwarka and as Gadadhar Pandit in Caitanya lila? I love the abolute contradictions in statements such as "No-one is dearer to Caitanya Mahaprabhu than Gadadhar Pandit." (Sri Caitanya would go to hear explanations/expostitons on Srimad Bhagwatam by Gadadhara; please correct me if I'm wrong)and "Sri Caitanya is none other than the combined forms of Radha and Krishna. Contradictions, it would seems from a maybe not so developed impression of Vraja lila; that Candravali is Radharani's competitor, and there is (what some might imagine)eternal animosity between Candravali and Radha. Yet Krishna, with the mood and sentiments of Radha, is drawn to Gadadhara to better understand Themselves! WONDERful. thanks, Jagat and others
  25. Hey, thanks you old closet Christian you! How's it goin'? Or Who and where is it going, hmm? Hosanna in the highest. Peace on Earth and good will towards all humans, eh?
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