Bhaktavasya

I agree with you when you say "we (you actually) should just leave them (the Christians)alone." Jesus is quite competent to take care of them on his own.

Many of you here have probably heard the story of the illiterate devotee who was instructed by his guru to study Bhagavad Gita everyday. Because he couldn't read or understand a word but tried anyways, Krishna from within revealed the crux of the Gita to him. When he was asked why he was shedding tears while turning the pages and understanding nothing (as thought by some)he said "Whenever I think of Krishna driving Arjuna's chariot and how much love Krishna has for his devotee, I can't help but cry." His guru confirmed that the illiterate disciple had understood the message of the Gita. Jesus said "My Father's house has many mansions." When the followers of Jesus go to live with him and the Father maybe then they'll find out who the Father is, what he looks like and what he likes to do. And that he has a Girlfriend!

Anyone who terrorizes innocent civilians, whether those citizens are in American, Iraqi, Afghani, Israli or Palestinian bodies. The terrorists always believe that thier cause is just and that the enemy is the person outside their camp. The solution? If we could all learn to share the resources of the earth rather than exploit them for our own greed, and that God is our common Mother and Father then someday this planet may be (as envisioned by Bhaktivinode Thakhur and other saints) Viakuntha, a place without fear. Maybe not in our lifetime, but someday future generations will look back at these dark times and wonder why we couldn't have done it sooner.

How is it 'dangerous' to 'surpass the scriptures' if we are encouraged to follow in the footsteps of the Gopis who left everything to follow Krishna, even leaving their so-called husbands if need be to go to Him. If there are specific injunctions in the Vedas that interupt our meditation and service to Krishna, then that injunction can be rejected. Krishna himself says that the Vedas are meant for those who are under the influence of the 3 modes of nature; "Rise above the modes, O Arjuna, be transcendental to all of them!" A tough call, no doubt, but it's what we all have to come to eventually. The Vedas are there to guide and teach, not to control to the letter.

You of all people should like that song ("When You're Gone"); I thought you would be singing something like that when Krishna runs away from you (in your scenerio). It's true, I strayed off topic, but why not go after Tarun for starting the ball rolling with 'Runaway' and Theist for keeping it up with 'Love Hurts'? In fact, you probably planted the seed in everyone's mind with the image of Krishna fleeing from you! Therefore it is up to you to bring it around full circle with an imagined scene where Krishna is staying put and you have your big chance to strike up a conversation with Him. [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 07-28-2002).]

Hawkmoon 269 by U2 Like desert need rain Like a town need a name I need your love Like a drifter need a room Hawkmoon I need your love I need your love Like a rhythm unbroken Like drums in the night Like sweet soul music Like sunlight I need your love Like comin' home And you don't know where you've been Like black coffee Like nicotine (!) I need your love I need your love When the night has no end And the day yet to begin As the room spins around I need your love I need your love Like a Phoenix rising needs a holy tree Like sweet revenge Of a bitter enemy I need your love Like heat need the sun Like honey on her tongue Like the muzzle of a gun Like oxygen I need your love I need your love Like thunder need rain Like a preacher needs pain Like tongues of a flame Like a sweet stain Need your love I need your love Like a needle needs a vein Like someone to blame Like a thought unchained Like a runaway train Need your love I need your love Like faith needs a doubt Like a freeway out Need your love Like powder needs a spark Like lies need the dark I need your love ******************* And of course the famous Beatles ditty: "All you need is love Everybody now All you need is love All you need is love, love Love is all you need Love is all you need Love is all you need"

What are the guidelines set by Bhaktivinode Thakhur for taking sannyas? Does BV Puri Maharaj emphasize that in accordance to Vedic tradition sannyas should not be entered into until after 50 years of age? The reason the majority of men who entered the sannyas order during the time of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad gave it up was because they were still in their 20's or early 30's. In some cases it was an excuse to avoid householder responsibilities. Because of the serious damage that occurred in ISKCON partially because of false renunciation and renunciation of family in general, I trust that BV Puri Maharaj must have elaborated more in his lectures and writings on this serious topic.

on second thought, maybe he was saying that it is a good thing that it is 'going down'.

While appreciating much of what BV Puri Maharaj has to teach, particularly that the teacher must be without malice and his humility (who can argue with vancha kalpa tarubyas ca?)is his vision one of more dandas and a rejuvenation of door to door style preaching?

Isn't Bhagavad Gita sometimes referred to as the 5th Veda? The site says that the Upanishads (the 4th Veda)is Vedanta or the end of the Vedas and that Bhagavad Gita is the essense of the Upanishads. Also shruti is considered to be of divine origin whereas smriti is of human origin, written to explain shruti. Another question, it is said (there)that Vyasadeva wrote the 18 puranas and sub-puranas. Was he (according to your information)the original author or the compiler?

So glad this thread is revived. A search of the Puranas on Google lists 4,990 sites under 'origin of the puranas' and 18,900 sites under 'the puranas'. I really appreciate Raga's discourse thus far, hope there's more. Here's a site I stumbled upon that is interesting; http://www.culturopedia.com/Religions/scriptures.html

A follow-up to Runaway: "When you're Gone" by Bryan Adams http://www.bryanadams.com/onlineshop/library/lyrics-onadayliketoday-whenyouregone.htm and let us not forget "Run to You" by the same artist.

Didn't you ask for a woman's opinion on being 'taken'? In all fairness, I've never been confronted with a twisted, lust-filled face of a woman wanting to aggressively overpower me for sex. But you're right, love and lust according to Caitanya Caritamrita is like the difference between gold and iron. Some people of either sex get off on lust while those who are won over by love and kindness are repelled by it. [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 07-03-2002).]

In my experience and observations I'd say that women like to be courted but never coerced. Self-confident but not arrogant. Shy and sensitive (really) but not wussy. As for the romantic interplay that goes on between committed lovers, some men prefer the woman to be more aggressive and some ladies like it when the man shows (gently)that he desires her. Contrary to popular myth, many women are not turned on by the lusty, controrted face of a man approaching her, even if it is her spouse. We are turned on by a face that is soft with amourous affection.

Lord Caitanya said to offer respects to everyone without seeking respect for oneself. If everyone accepted this instruction then there is no problem with offering respect to one's elders, husband and one's wife. Agreed?

I strongly disagree. The spirit soul, whether in a male or female body, has to follow in the footsteps of the damsels of Vraja and submit to the sweet will of the Lord. Krishna is the Father and true Husband of the soul (as Bhaktivinode called Him)yet He is submissive to Love alone. Similarly, we parts and parcels can never (truly) surrender to anything less.

I would go with Krishna never being affected by the deluding potency, that Rama's sadness when Sita was kidnapped was more genuine and deeply emotional than the most caring human husband could feel under similar circumstances. As for Krishna being afraid of Mother Yasoda, I think He was just pretending.

Hey, good one!

Radharani; I was 'pulling a Sashi' and not meaning to sound preachy and critical, only pretending to sound that way!

"And when you have seen the truth you will see that all living beings are dear to Me, they are in Me and are Mine." If Krishna says you are part of Him, don't insult yourself by misidentifying yourself as a flea. Fleas are part of the Lord's energy to, but cannot read or understand Bhagavad Gita and can't have loving exchanges with the Lord, which is what He wants of us.

But He says in Bhagavad Gita to engage the mind in always thinking of Him, remember Him and offer obeisances to Him. "Being fully absorbed in Me, surely you will come to me with doubt." Thinking of Him always with love is the best service. Why would He spurn you when you finally do come to Him?

It has been said that if we take one step towards Krishna, He will take a hundred steps towards us. So when that day arrives when we are finally close enough to be beside the Lord, why would He run or walk away after we have come so far?

Some comments on the 'beautiful and rich people' as some kind of perfection state. When we think about it, the lives of the Hollywood/super-model crowd GENERALLY (I hear Robert Redford is opposed to going under the knife to smooth out the wrinkles, remodel the nose,etc)must be filled with anxiety and paranoia. Security alone must cost in a day what a low-income person has to live on for the month. If you have children there's always the fear of kidnappers; all it takes is one crazed 'fan' whose goal in life is to be with you even if it means knocking you off to get his/her name in the paper beside your's. If you happen to be single, or between marriages, Maya 'in the form of a beautiful woman or man' (as we know Maya is very complex, 'ultimately' She's just doing Her job to get us all back to Godhead)will pull every trick in the book, the beguiling smile, the 'come into my world and heavenly delights await you' hypnotic glances. Meanwhile, his or her eyes may be glazed over not out of love for you, but love for the vision of all that money he/she will be spending in the future. The beguiling smile actually meant "Two or three years with you, dear, and I'm rich for the rest of my life after I take your butt to court for, I don't know, irreconcilable differences? I hate your taste in music, but I'm not going to tell you now, am I." Beauty, as it's been said, is only skin deep and temporairy as a beautiful rose in full bloom. Spiritual beauty lasts and shines through on the face of an even not so asthetically beautiful person. Not that good-looking people can't be beautiful on the inside too, but you get the point. In conclusion I'd say that the very rich and famous, the destitute and forgotten, and all the shades in between have their particular brand of the 3-fold miseries to contend with in life. I'd say the cycle (wheel)of samsara begins to come to a halt when we stop desiring to be rich, famous, beautiful, or even poor (if you're rich and wonder too much about what it would be like to be poor). That why praying for, desiring to be 'engaged' in Their service birth after birth is soooo liberating.

Atma; great mined jewells! Here's another Prabhupad saying: "On the dance floor, everyone is equal."