Bhaktavasya

p.s. if suffering (due to cruelty or otherwise) was something mundane then Vasudeva Datta would have been a mundane sentimentalist, which he of course was not.

p.s. if suffering (due to cruelty or otherwise) was something mundane then Vasudeva Datta would have been a mundane sentimentalist, which he of course was not.

lord Krishna appeared to deliver the pious (who were being persecuted by miscreat kings and rulers) and anniliate the miscreants, as well as to establish eternal religious principals. Disciriminating between higher and lower caste persons is not an eternal religious principal, neither is cutting out someone's tongue for speaking their minds. Cruel and unusal punishment is not a mundane thing, except maybe in your own mind. I've been thorough this scenerio before, swapping contradictory quotes to establish each other's point of view. I believe what I want, you will hold on to what you accept as 'highest truth' in scripture. Here's one back at you: "The Vedas are meant for those who are still in the modes of material nature; RISE ABOVE THE MODES, O ARJUNA, BE TRANSCENDENTAL TO ALL OF THEM" Please re-examine talks between Lord Chaitanya and Ramananda Raya to get a better grip on the Lord's view of what is really the highest duty for all living beings.

lord Krishna appeared to deliver the pious (who were being persecuted by miscreat kings and rulers) and anniliate the miscreants, as well as to establish eternal religious principals. Disciriminating between higher and lower caste persons is not an eternal religious principal, neither is cutting out someone's tongue for speaking their minds. Cruel and unusal punishment is not a mundane thing, except maybe in your own mind. I've been thorough this scenerio before, swapping contradictory quotes to establish each other's point of view. I believe what I want, you will hold on to what you accept as 'highest truth' in scripture. Here's one back at you: "The Vedas are meant for those who are still in the modes of material nature; RISE ABOVE THE MODES, O ARJUNA, BE TRANSCENDENTAL TO ALL OF THEM" Please re-examine talks between Lord Chaitanya and Ramananda Raya to get a better grip on the Lord's view of what is really the highest duty for all living beings.

I know Manu Samhita has nothing to do with Bhakti yoga, but seeing as Manu is mentioned as 'the father of mankind', for curiousity's sake, check out Manu Samhita (just type in the words in the address bar)and then go to 'Laws of Manu'. This is where the marriage of a woman with red hair is forbidden, for example, in chapter 8 (VIII). In the same chapter it is mentioned that the 'sudra' can have his (or her)tongue cut out for speaking against a brahman, and hot oil poured into his ear to 'arrogantly' teaching a brahman his duty. It is very clear to me that Krishna's pastimes are enacted to contradict such cruel and unusual punishments, for example the Manu Samhita forbids the union of a brahman with a sudra or low caste woman, yet Vyasadev favoured the mother of Vidura, a maidservant, and the great sage Vidura was born from her womb. Rupa and Sanatana Goswamis, being born in muslim families (and therefore considered outcasts or less than sudra by Manu Samhita standards) would have had, by Manu's laws, hot oil poured into their ears for teaching the real duty of brahmans; to give up their pride and follow in the footsteps of the milkmaids of Vrndavan. A corelation to the laws of the Koran can be found in the 8th chapter , verse 78; "She who shows disrespect to a husband who is addicted to some evil passion, is a drunkard, or diseased SHALL BE DESERTED FOR 3 MONTHS AND BE DEPRIVED OF HER ORNAMENTS AND FURNITURE." In the next verse, strangely, she can leave her husband if he is a eunuch or not manly enough! In Islam, a woman who divorces her husband loses custody of her children. There is also prohibition in MS against a brahman marrying a woman who is named after a river or a tree (chapter 3! I guess Tulasi and Ganga weren't popular girl names during that time period. Manu, Shmanu. Father of mankind, maybe but not humankind.

I know Manu Samhita has nothing to do with Bhakti yoga, but seeing as Manu is mentioned as 'the father of mankind', for curiousity's sake, check out Manu Samhita (just type in the words in the address bar)and then go to 'Laws of Manu'. This is where the marriage of a woman with red hair is forbidden, for example, in chapter 8 (VIII). In the same chapter it is mentioned that the 'sudra' can have his (or her)tongue cut out for speaking against a brahman, and hot oil poured into his ear to 'arrogantly' teaching a brahman his duty. It is very clear to me that Krishna's pastimes are enacted to contradict such cruel and unusual punishments, for example the Manu Samhita forbids the union of a brahman with a sudra or low caste woman, yet Vyasadev favoured the mother of Vidura, a maidservant, and the great sage Vidura was born from her womb. Rupa and Sanatana Goswamis, being born in muslim families (and therefore considered outcasts or less than sudra by Manu Samhita standards) would have had, by Manu's laws, hot oil poured into their ears for teaching the real duty of brahmans; to give up their pride and follow in the footsteps of the milkmaids of Vrndavan. A corelation to the laws of the Koran can be found in the 8th chapter , verse 78; "She who shows disrespect to a husband who is addicted to some evil passion, is a drunkard, or diseased SHALL BE DESERTED FOR 3 MONTHS AND BE DEPRIVED OF HER ORNAMENTS AND FURNITURE." In the next verse, strangely, she can leave her husband if he is a eunuch or not manly enough! In Islam, a woman who divorces her husband loses custody of her children. There is also prohibition in MS against a brahman marrying a woman who is named after a river or a tree (chapter 3! I guess Tulasi and Ganga weren't popular girl names during that time period. Manu, Shmanu. Father of mankind, maybe but not humankind.

This truly wonderful story of Vasudeva Datta had me entranced and melting in appreciation of such an exalted devotee, right up until the comparison with Jesus Christ. I have no doubt that remembering the name and activities of Vasudeva Datta is all auspicious. I just wish my guru hadn't added that comment. But then again, he was the one who taught that there can be various commentaries on transcendental subjects, and still the harmonizing factor is that which increases one's love and appreciation for Radha-Krishna and the dear devotees of God. Baja Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Srivas adi Gaura Bhakta Vrnda All equal manifestations of the Supreme Truth [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 01-12-2002).]

Puru, I don't see the connection with the Manu Samhita and the laws in the Koran. Could you give you personal view on the subject?

Puru, I don't see the connection with the Manu Samhita and the laws in the Koran. Could you give you personal view on the subject?

I saw a program last night about how muslims, being traders and travellers, incorporated various teachings and traditions into their culture. If at one time the whole planet was a Vedic culture, Bharat Varsha, then it's entirely possible that certain laws from the Manu Samhita were embraced by Islam. For example, the cutting off of bodily parts. In the Manu Samhita, a sudra can have his tongue cut out for speaking against a brahman, his hand cut off for striking a brahman. In the Koran there is no caste, but for the crime of theft a person is to be sentenced to amputation of one hand for the first offense, the second hand for the second offense. And it seems that the view on women is the same in both the Manu Samhita and the Koran.

I saw a program last night about how muslims, being traders and travellers, incorporated various teachings and traditions into their culture. If at one time the whole planet was a Vedic culture, Bharat Varsha, then it's entirely possible that certain laws from the Manu Samhita were embraced by Islam. For example, the cutting off of bodily parts. In the Manu Samhita, a sudra can have his tongue cut out for speaking against a brahman, his hand cut off for striking a brahman. In the Koran there is no caste, but for the crime of theft a person is to be sentenced to amputation of one hand for the first offense, the second hand for the second offense. And it seems that the view on women is the same in both the Manu Samhita and the Koran.

A summary: Vasudeva Datta, who was very devoted to Sri Chaitanya, approached the Lord in a very unhappy mood. He confided to Mahaprabhu that he couldn't bear to see the suffering of the conditioned souls, and aked that the Lord fulfil his one desire: to take birth forever in the material world and undergo the karma of all those destined to suffer so that they could all go back to Godhead. Lord Chaitanya began to cry, embraced Vasudeva Datta and said "You are the true devotee, because of your pure desire, all the jiva souls are already (destined to be) liberated. It is said (in Chaitanya Charitamrita) that whoever chants the name of Vasudeva Datta will be immediately liberated and will attain love of God.

gHari: I thought you said the message was from Krishna.

Yes, I've heard Leonard Cohen's 'Ten New Songs'; I bought it and then loaned it to a girlfriend for the time being. There is a poet in all of us, yet it takes a teacher of that fine art to release our inner poets. I must say that besides the famous, celebrated poet-singers of our age like Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan, there is one who has inspired me, and others here although there may be reluctance to admit it. Not so much inspired me to write poetically, because I'm fairly elementary and not so profound, but has stirred my heart with his brand of insightful, sometimes humourous and always honest poetry. I'm speaking of course of Talasiga, and although he may be 'cutting' on occasion (sadhu means to cut, away the illusion, the b.s), more often he is a delight. So how are you; I'm glad to see you 'went away' and came back fresh and brimming with nectar! Jai Radha Madana Mohan Mohini

When the poets unite in praise of Her We forget how to fight In love we're secure Even Krishna is defeated By Her mysterious ways May Radhe remain seated In our hearts, night and day

After reading this thread over 3 times, I am perplexed by this apparent anger towards talasiga's playfullness (or is it playfulness?). And I don't get it myself, the 'every word' bit. Sorry to appear to be taking sides, but are not you the one who has had his ego bruised, considering that every single word that comes from you is so precious? words; can heal, reveal, enlighten, frighten, devastate, retaliate, entertain, confuse the brain, deceive, relieve, reveal and conceal the heart. Mostly, except for a few, they are forgotten in time.

After reading through the list of deceased devotees who were disciples of ACBSP, I am surprised to see Ambarisa and Hayagriva. SP generally did not give 2 diciples the same name, so does anyone know if it is the same Ambarish from Detroit (grandson of Henry Ford) and the same Hayagriva who was one of the first disciples of SP, a former professor and early resident of New Vrndaban?

If anyone who puts value on diamonds could witness the slave-like, dangerous conditions that men who mine for the diamonds (for which the companies make most of the money and the workers are paid a pittance)they would appreciate the real value of home-made jams and perserves, expecially the beauty of the sun steaming through nature's true jewels, and renounce diamonds; humanity's most fickle friend.

Yes, and for all you 'Alone and loving It' people out there, a very, very Blue Chrismas to you; Mix together a hearty dose of shadow-y attachment with intense longing for an imaginariy lover. Blend in false memory syndromne, of actually having been with Krishna at some time in some place in eternal time. Sprinkle with spiritual sentiments that you read or heard about, and even though you don't really have them, pretend that you do anyway. Sample songs to sing along with, relating key words to mean Krishna (such as You)and Godhead (Home); "I'll Have a Blue Chrismas Without You" "(It's Christmas)Baby Please Come Home" the U2 version "I'll be Home for Christmas, (if only in my dreams." "I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" (envisioning Krishna dressing up like Santa Claus and stealing a kiss from Radha) Happy Holy Fantasies to All

"No-one can understand the plan of the Lord, Sri Krishna. Although great sages and philosophers speculate for many lifetimes, still they are bewildered." Srimad Bhagwatam Saying that, I speculate, on the basis that Krishna's plans for His devotees is always full of mercy and for their ultimate benefit, that George's cancer from smoking is Krishna telling His 'fallen devotees', who can't give up their addictions, that they too will come back to Godhead, maybe a little bit sooner than others. Secondly, it may help Vaisnavas who can't give up their judgemental attitude towards those who are more 'fallen, to see beyond the externals (why did Sanatan Goswami have sores all over his body?) to the heart of the devotee, to the love that surrounds us all. [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 12-15-2001).] [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 12-15-2001).]

Chosen loneliness can be a valuable asset, an impetus for missing the Beloved though some may say it's all make believe

Someone told me this weekend that when George asked Srila Prabhupad for a sanskrit name, Prabhupad said "You are already Hari's son (Harrison, so you don't need another name."

Even if a devotee of Lord Nityananda enters a Subway shop, my faith will remain unwavering that he/she is there to order a veggie and cheese sandwich. How wonderful are the followers of Lord Nityananda, that whereever they go, an auspicious 'Hari Bol' is bound to emit from their lotus mouths, blessing all the unsuspecting meat-eaters, who may otherwise never hear transcendental sound vibration or get a chance to gaze on the sweet faces of the devotees of the Sweet Lord!

There was something called 'the Jesus Seminar', approximatley 10 years back, where various Christian theologians determined through computer carbon dating which quotes attributed to Jesus actually came from him. Apparently the above quote (the only Way, Truth and Light) was recorded long after the original recording of the Bible (which was written some 50 years after Christ's departure), leading the scholars of the Jesus Seminar to conclude that Jesus 'probably' never spoke those words. Which makes a lot of sense, in that Jesus must have had a universal understanding of God appearing in many forms, under many names, and that 'all paths lead to Me' as more truthful and less (apparently) egotistical. Jesus would have to know that the 'only one way' theory would cause religious splinters and endless arguments about who and what is 'the only true Way'.