Bhaktavasya

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Excellent post, Paul 108!

Ignorance is no excuse, Jijaji. Millions of muslims and believers of Islamic faith have live in countries all over the western world, here in Canada and the USA for example, while abiding by the laws of their adopted country. Where is there a recorded instance of a person of Islamic faith cutting off the hand of a person who stole from him or beheaded someone who didn't have the same beliefs, in USA, Canada, England, Europe, or any other country with laws that prohibit such retribution. The Manu Samhita is a good example of a Vedic scripture that predates Islam by millennia, yet if some far-right Hindu fundmentalists ever got in political power somewhere and decided to revive the old laws, then if someone from the sudra caste or lower spoke offensive or blastphemous words to a brahman, then the law of Manu dictates that his tongue can be cut out. Fortunately, people of faiths all over the world are now coming together to listen to each other and work together to show the world how we can live together in peace. Perhaps later on, once there is peace on earth, the old, repressive laws can be disregarded as ineffectual, cruel and not in the spirit of love and peaceful co-existence.

Ignorance is no excuse, Jijaji. Millions of muslims and believers of Islamic faith have live in countries all over the western world, here in Canada and the USA for example, while abiding by the laws of their adopted country. Where is there a recorded instance of a person of Islamic faith cutting off the hand of a person who stole from him or beheaded someone who didn't have the same beliefs, in USA, Canada, England, Europe, or any other country with laws that prohibit such retribution. The Manu Samhita is a good example of a Vedic scripture that predates Islam by millennia, yet if some far-right Hindu fundmentalists ever got in political power somewhere and decided to revive the old laws, then if someone from the sudra caste or lower spoke offensive or blastphemous words to a brahman, then the law of Manu dictates that his tongue can be cut out. Fortunately, people of faiths all over the world are now coming together to listen to each other and work together to show the world how we can live together in peace. Perhaps later on, once there is peace on earth, the old, repressive laws can be disregarded as ineffectual, cruel and not in the spirit of love and peaceful co-existence.

In today's Toronto Globe and Mail(Globe Focus) there is a picture/painting of bin Laden where he is holding sword and riding on a white horse! Last night on the news the announcer said that bin Laden is rumoured to have left Afghanistan 'on his horse'(instead of by jeep or armoured car). I'm wondering if he is familiar with Vedic scripture, and has fashioned himself to be seen as the Vishnu avatar Kalki, who is supposed to come riding on a white horse, weilding a sword and wiping out most of the humans on the planet. Very wierd.

In today's Toronto Globe and Mail(Globe Focus) there is a picture/painting of bin Laden where he is holding sword and riding on a white horse! Last night on the news the announcer said that bin Laden is rumoured to have left Afghanistan 'on his horse'(instead of by jeep or armoured car). I'm wondering if he is familiar with Vedic scripture, and has fashioned himself to be seen as the Vishnu avatar Kalki, who is supposed to come riding on a white horse, weilding a sword and wiping out most of the humans on the planet. Very wierd.

"Genuine dissent must always keep a human measure. It must be free and spontaneous. The slighter gestures are often more significant, because they are unpremeditated and they cannot be doctored beforehand by the propagandist." Thomas Merton, 'Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander' "Man proposes, but God disposes." Thomas a' Kempis, 'The Imitation of Christ' "Grace is not a strange, magic substance which is subltly filtered into our souls to act as a kind of spiritual penicillin. Grace is unity, oneness within ourselves, oneness with God." Thomas Merton 'The New Man' "Great men are not always wise." The Bible, Job 32.9 "The superior person is quiet and calm, waiting for the appointments of heaven, while the mean person walks in dangerous paths, looking for lucky occurrences." Confucius "He that is greedy of gain troubleth his won house." The Bible, Proverbs 15.27 "I want to kow how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon. I want to know His thoughts. The rest are details." Albert Einstein "Justice will not condemn even the Devil himself wrongly." Thomas fuller 'Gnomologia' "The disinherited of every age have dreamt of a just society." Reinhold Niebuhr 'Moral Man and Immoral Society' "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King, Jr., 'Letter from the Birmingham Jail.' "It is tempting at one level to believe that bad things happen to people (especially other people) because God is a righteous judge who gives them exactly wht they deserve. By believing that we keep the world orderly and understandable...But this belief has a number of serious limitations. It teaches people to blame themselves. It creates guilt when there is no basis for guilt. It makes people hate God, even as it makes them hate themselves. And most disturbing of all, it does not even fit the facts." Harold S.Kushner, 'When Bad Things Happen to Good People' "God seeks comrades and claims love, the Devil seeks slaves and claims obedience." Rabindranath Tagore, 'Fireflies' "It is a characteristic of wisdom not to do dsperate things." Henry David Thoreau, 'Walden' "Let not a wise man glory n his wisdom." The Bible, Jeremiah 9.23 "Wisdom makes but a slow defense against trouble, though at last a sure one." Oliver Goldsmith, 'The Vicar of Wakefield' "No sacrifice is worth the name unless it is a joy. Sacrifice and a long face go ill together." Mohandas K. Gandhi "If your religion doesn't change you (for the better)then you should change your religion." Elbert Hubbard 'The Roycroft Dictionary and Book of Epigrams' "Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action." Mohandas K. Gandhi, 'Non-Violence in Peace and War' "God is not a cosmic bellboy for whom we can press a button to get things done." Harry Emerson Fosdick 'The Meaning of Prayer' "To wish to pray is a prayer in itself." Geroges Bernanos 'The Diary of a Country Priest'

Here are some quotes that I find relevant to the world-changing situation; "There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid." The Bible, Proverbs 18-19 "God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform; He plants his footsteps in the sea And rides upon the storm" William Cowper, 'Light Shining out of Darkness' "A man that hath friends must show himself friendly." Holy Bible 18:24 "The insight of a true friend is more useful than the goodwill of others: therefore gain friends by choice, not by chance." Baltasar Gracian 'The Art of Worldly Wisdom' "Pure Friendship is an image ofthe original and perfect friendship that belong to the Trinity and is the very essence of God." Simone Weil, 'Waiting for God' "Some friendships are made by nature, some by contract, some by interest and some by souls." Jeremy Taylor "He that have mercy on the poor, happy is he." The Bible Psalms 103:17 "When we live at each other's mercy, we had better learn to be merciful." William Sloane Coffin, 'Living the Truth in a World of Illusions' "Swift is the Lord in retirbution, yet He is forgiving and merciful.' Koran 6:165 In the beginning God wished to render justice, but when He observed that the world could not rest on justice alone, He rendered mercy." Talmud, Rosh Hashanah 17 "One cannot build his house on rock after the storm breaks, that must be done before." Harry Emerson Fosdick, 'Riverside Sermons' "The church seeks its own life, and therefore while it is against war, speaking piously about 'the Prince of Peace', it always justifies any present war." George A. Buttrick, 'God, Pain and Evil' "King David was not allowed to build the Temple in Jerusalem because he had been a man of war; the privilege of constructing the Temple was reserved for his son Solomom, whose very name is derived from shalom (peace)." Roland B. Gittelsohn, 'The Meaning of Judaism' "We are mad, not only individually, but nationally. We check manslaughter and isolated murders; but what of war and the much vaunted crime fo slaughtering whole peoples?" Seneca, Epistles "Stretch a bow to the very full, And you will wish you had stopped in time." Lao-tzu, Tao te-ching "We walk by faith, not by sight." The Bible, 2 Corinthians 5.7 "Faith is a living, well-founded confidence in the Grace of God, so perfectly certain that it would die a thousand times rather than surrender its conviction." Martin Luther, Preface to St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans "Faith is a kind of climbing instinct, which draws us upward and onward." willism Ralph Inge, 'Wit and Wisdom of Dean Inge' "Faith is related not to self-assurance but to God; not to an event, but to truth." Fulton J. Sheen 'On Being Human' "I have a dream today. I have a dram that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be laid low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places shall be made straight. And the glory of God shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together." Marin Luther King more later

the faithful person seeks the inner meaning nama prabhu responds in kindness the name in silence without explaining itself breathes the truths of love even the faithless know the name

I see a different similarity.We all see the what just happened in NYC as an act of terrorism.I also see what happens in abortion clinics daily as state sponsored terrorism against the unborn.Where is the terror in abortion some may ask?It all appears so orderly, so clinical, why it even resembles a medical procedure with the "doctors"[butchers] wearing white coats and displaying their degrees on the wall.The terror is in the hearts of those helpless souls as they are being scraped out of the"mothers" womb.You can see their pitiful attempts to avoid the butchers knife on a Sonagram but they have no escape.We would be able to hear them as well, but due to their underdeveloped bodies their screams are rendered silent. Yeah there are some similarites all right. [This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 09-20-2001).] Yes, and there are the screams of the souls who just came from and are about to enter an unsafe, unjust world. Krishna says that it is unwanted population that creates a hellish society. Besides that, no-one can kill the imperishable soul. Maybe it goes back into the Brahman, preserved until it is received and welcomed into a peaceful world/home. Ultimately, whether to produce or not is a matter between the woman and her own conscience.

As is traditional when an opponent refuses to face his challenger, an empty seat represents the no-show. Which fairly well represents your head and hollow place in the area of your chest that is supposed to represent the heart chakra. The private fight between you and me I agree to put aside, for now. The map depicting Afganistan as blackened 'toast' is what boils my blood. Yes, **** you, you worm. You're speaking of Mother Bhumi, the Earth, and the people living on her. The Taliban have control in 95% of Afganistan, with only 10% of the population in favor of their extreme religious right wing rule. Today's cartoon reveals how much you are similar to those who cheer destruction of a human population to get their point across. Change the faces and you have the american civilians in the world trade centre. A question: What is the difference between George W. saying "There will be (human)sacrifices, casualties. But it's for America and the free world." and an Islamic religious extemist saying; "There will be holy jihad, casualties. But's it's for the glory of Islam and becauses it's the will of Allah." answer: only the names and creeds are different. What is most astounding about your ignorance, is you act as if you never heard that Lord Vishnu is in the hearts of all living beings, the Supreme well wisher and dearmost Friend. That is how devotees of God, known and unknown, throughout time have worked together to bring about peace on earth.

Thankyou for getting more of the truth out about the hypocritical american foreign policy. This is of course a very serious issue; this morning the president of Pakistan gave a long 'sermon' on why his government has decided to allow american bases to operate in Pakistan, choosing 'the lesser of 2 evils', as he said. He referred to a treaty that the prophet Mohammed had entered into with the jews and another 'enemy' that lasted for 6 years, after which time Islam defeated their enemies. Personally, I fear that Mr. Bush is leading the pack into a trap. Then again, it won't be his life or his children who will be 'sacrificed' on war's bloody altar.

p.s. That amount ($1400 to $1600) is the scale for a single mother with 4 children, the $50 per child is extra until the children are 18. I don't know her, only of her story and that there are many devotees in Vancouver and on Vancouver Island who do know her, who are enraged with her ex-husband and who she should also try to get in contact with for help if she is still in need of things like extra food and clothing for her and her children.

As long as Shanta dasi and her 4 children are either Canadian citizens or landed immigrants, they are entitled to government assistance which I believe is approximately $1400 to $1600 a month plus mother's allowance of $50 extra for each child if they are under 18 years of age. From what I've heard, Mahamantra was sentenced to a jail term for the vicious assault on his wife and banned from the Vancouver temple. Shanti dasi is entitled to a restraining order against him (legal aid for mothers on assistance is free in such cases) to keep him not only away from her and her place of residence but from making any contact with her, in the event that he does attempt to he will be incarcerated again.

Did you know that America supported Iraq for 7 years during the war between hard-line Iran (with it's Ayotallah Komeni) and more moderate Iraq (where no-one is perscuted for religious affiliations). Computer time has run out , so do your homework on the Gulf War. It was all about oil, and protecting rich Kuwatis.

This is why I suggested going to the test zone to have a one on one 'battle', as they would no longer be considered spiritual discussions. You and I have had these kind of disagreements for over 3 years now. I therefore challenge you to meet me in the test zone. BTW, JRdd, in case you're reading this, what I meant by formatting the thread for battling purposes was to allow room for the inevitable insults I knew Bhutabhavana would spit out when he's caught out. Hardly fitting words for the general devotee viewers to be exposed to. Back to you, Bhuta. Religious terrorism means to believe it is you God-given duty to inflict terror and fear on those who do not follow what you believe to be God's laws. And you bragged about bombing clinics and not getting caught, indicating that you either had a good lawyer or perhaps were 'turned over' by the authorities to act as a stooge or a mole. Still, by bragging about it you clearly indicated that you envisioned yourself to be some kind of holy warrior. BTW, over half a million children have died of starvation and lack of medical care in Iraq. And don't get me started on U.S. involvement in Central America, C.I.A. sponsored terrorism resulting in the torture, disappearance and death of tens of thousands of young men and women in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatamala. Anyhow, you think of yourself as a ksatriya. Which means you cannot refuse an invitation to battle. And don't use the lame excuse that you can't fight a woman. You, coward that you are, have been fighting and attacking me through 4 different forums so far. An example is the pot-smoking. Although several men, including Mahaksa, have admitted to smoking pot, you have never breathed a word of protest. I barely speak of it, yet whenever I say something you don't like, it's the same boring insults over and over again. Be a man, meet me in the test zone. After high noon, tomorrow.

Bhuta Bhavana; you still haven't replied to your confession to be an abortion clinic bomber...terrorism is terrorism whether it's bombing a building with thousands of people or 2 or three. Same mentality.

I live on Vancouver Island, B.C., and haven't read anything in the papers or seen anything on tv about this attack. It must be one of those isolated grossly ignorant incidents. More on this later.

Hear, here!

p.s. I still don't believe they'd hire an right-wing fanatic like you to command a troop. Nice fantasy.

Looks like I'm going to have to do some telling on my own. Your words, Bhuta bhavana/randOM aXis, now eat them. On vnn, the Abortion thread, you bragged that you had bombed X many abortion clinics and 'never been caught'. Then you paint this picture of yourself as some kind of usa government agent, flying off to Russia, invited to the ball at Bush's inaugaral, now troops under your command. I found it hard to believe that the American government would hire an admitted abortion clinic bomber, but now in the papers I see that they are lowering the bar and hiring unsavory characters in the 'new' shadow government tactics. I guess they're just finally admitting it.

Gotta say it, MC. You are more intrigued with the homosexual issue than anyone else, surely more than any admitted gays or lesbians. Just imagine if the topic was on your mind and you died suddenly; you might take birth in a female body while still identifying yourself as primarily a male...and then you'd either have to come out as a lesbian, marry a man but fated for a disasterous marriage because your male-soul identification would turn you off to romance with a man, or join a monestary/nunnery/brahmacarini ashram and take a life long vow of celibacy. You never know... [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 09-14-2001).]

How about spiritual unfolding? BTW, I sent you an email, seeing as we live on the same island.

Your wife at least doesn't ignore you. Krishna is in her heart too.

Who is SV Maharaj? Whoever he is, he should stick to talking about Radha-Krishna tattva and Chaitanya's method of convincing people of all faiths that only Love incarnate will bring an end to all suffering, an end to all wars, a new era.