Sarva gattah

Hari Bol Guruvani!! G'day mate , how are ya? According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva-maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion Question : - What is the meaning of marginal? Answer: - Subsidiary, supplementary, secondary (in relation to Krishna) minor, insignificant, accompanying (as individual living entities), subordinate, inferior, lower, lesser, derived, unoriginal (because Krishna is the original) Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prbhupada - "The supreme knowledge of Krsna is exhibited in three different energies--internal, marginal and external. By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prbhupada - "The conditioned soul is the marginal potency overpowered by the external potency. However, when the marginal potency comes under the jurisdiction of the spiritual potency, it becomes eligible for love of Godhead." Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prbhupada - "Vedanta-sutra is compiled by Vyasadeva for the benefit of all living entities. It is through Vedanta-sutra that the philosophy of bhakti-yoga can be understood. Unfortunately, the Mayavadi commentary, Sariraka-bhasya, has practically defeated the purpose of Vedanta-sutra. In the Mayavadi commentary, the spiritual, transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been denied, and the Supreme Brahman has been dragged down to the level of the individual Brahman, the living entity. Both the Supreme Brahman and the individual Brahman have been denied spiritual form and individuality, although it is clearly stated that the Supreme Lord is the one supreme living entity and the other living entities are the many subordinate living entities”. ". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada Srila Prbhupada – “Thus reading the Mayavadi commentaries on Vedanta-sutra is always dangerous. The chief danger is that through these commentaries one may come to consider the living entity to be equal to the Supreme Lord. It is easy for a conditioned living entity to be falsely directed in this way, and once he is so directed he can never come to his actual position or enjoy his eternal activity in bhakti yoga. In other words, the Mayavadi philosophy has rendered the greatest disservice to humanity by promoting the impersonal view of the Supreme Lord. Thus Mayavadi philosophers deprive human society of the real message of Vedanta-sutra". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the marginal living entities nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the secondary nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti (individual Brahman) that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee acting within their full potential as devotees of Krishna in their particular active rasa relationship in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Srila Prabhupada - ‘Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967) There is a paradox her however, and that is technically all the marginal living entities (100%) of all of Krishna's subsidiary potency are perpetually original represented by their fully Krishna Conscious bodily identity (nitya-siddha) in Goloka however, it is 25% of them who are the ones actually dreaming that they are in the material creation or mahat-tattva. In other words some marginal living entities are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as their bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection that relies on the ethereal and biological bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu. Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan The eternal, secondary, inferior dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha and about 170 other jiva definitions however, they are all the extended secondary consciousness of their nitya-siddha body when one chooses to use their free will and ignore Krishna and their own perpetual nitya-siddha body. Srila Prabhupada – ‘In the present status of our life we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position’ Introduction to Bhagavad Gita as it is Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) Only outside the personal perpetual pastimes of Krishna, Vishnu etc in the imperishable Goloka and Vaikuntha's can the following description be correct. This is shown above as the dormant border line condition of the marginal living entities nitya-baddha consciousness that can enter a dormant state of individual consciousness in between the dark perishable cloud that is the creation of Maha-Vishnu, and the permanant devotionally active Vaikuntha's that is called tatastha – ‘The word tata means a shore or bank, like the shoreline of an ocean; and the verbal root stha means to be situated. The shore is not part of the ocean, yet it is not part of the land which borders the ocean. One situated on the shoreline is known as tatastha. He is situated neither within the ocean, nor on the land’. Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia There are two aspects of Krishna’s wonderful creation, one imperishable without time and decay (Goloka and Vaikuntha established perpetually in the Spiritual Sky or the Personal feature of the Brahmajyoti), while the other is perishable and temporary (the mahat-tattva and Impersonal portion of the Spiritual sky call the Impersonal Brahmajyoti). Therefore it can be said that the marginal living also entity has two characteristics to its existence, the first and foremost is their perpetual nitya-siddha bodily identity established within eternal time in Goloka, the second is their nitya-baddha consciousness that can only exist outside Goloka. Srila Prabhupada - "When a living being is thus graced by the Lord, he is placed in his proper constitutional position to enjoy eternal spiritual life" .Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.3.34 Srila Prabhupada - "we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on". Bombay, December 27, 1972 Srila Prabhupada - "You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams" Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967 According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva-maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion or ignorance Srila Prabhupada - "Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna" Letter to Australian devotees 1972 When we’re dreaming, we think it’s real. It seems real, no matter how mixed up the dream is. That’s life in the material world. We think it’s real, but it’s not. It’s a real dream. But still a dream. Srila Prabhupada - "When the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland" Bombay, December 27, 1972 There is no beginning or end to the creation so in the face of eternity time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning. In this way all the marginal living entities are always in their full expression of nitya-siddha-svarupa and that can never change. All of us are eternally in Goloka since our devotional svarupa body can never fall down as the Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita teaches us. We just have to wake up from this mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu’s and realize this fact Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 In this dreaming state, after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu, we forget our actual position and thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. The Vedic texts describe that the Supreme Creator (In His Maha-Vishnu Form) produces the material world by His dreaming in yoga-nidra , His mystic slumber. Thus, the material creation is the Supreme Being's dream, or a display of His thought energy. Furthermore, the Vedic literature describes how the Supreme Being exists outside the boundaries of the material manifestation from where He begins the process of creation. So, He is indeed "beyond what He created. These states of consciousness correspond with the four states known technically as jagrat, svapna, susupti, and turiya - or the wakeful state, the dreaming state, the dreamless state, and the transcendental state. Srila Prabhupada - "This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38) Srila Prabhupada - "We are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on". Bombay, December 27, 1972 Srila Prabhupada - "You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams" Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967 Srila Prabhupada - "Just as a dreamer dreams his being fast asleep and dreaming of things (friends, relations, business, etc.), which are really inside him, and when he wakes up from this dream to the original one, imagines himself awake though he is still dreaming, even so the perceiver should realise this waking (state) as a mere dream created by Maya, the jiva’s own deluding power. 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga

This understanding is no fairytale, the real fairytale is the mundane dreams you are having in the material world, like the one you’re right having now. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "ww are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on". <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:date Month="12" Day="27" Year="1972">December 27, 1972</st1:date><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams" Letter to Nandakisora, <st1:date Month="12" Day="24" Year="1967">Sunday, December 24, 1967</st1:date> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Just as a dreamer dreams his being fast asleep and dreaming of things (friends, relations, business, etc.), which are really inside him, and when he wakes up from this dream to the original one, imagines himself awake though he is still dreaming, even so the perceiver should realise this waking (state) as a mere dream created by Maya, the jiva’s own deluding power. 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "When the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream, One dream at night, one dream at daytime.. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland" <st1:City><st1:place>Bombay</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:date Month="12" Day="27" Year="1972">December 27, 1972</st1:date><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

Prabhu, your quote is very nice howver I think Vigraha's quote is Prabhupada's standard, he has only repeated it. Srila Prabhupadais not only a real genuin pure devotee of Krishna, but is the greatest preacher of the Vaishnava tradition our planet has ever known.

You are already liberated, you just have to wake up from the material dream Srila Prabhupada - ‘You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Srila Prabhupada - ‘Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

Shiva everything you have written is well researched and well explained, except of course many will not agree that we originate from tatastha dormant consciousness. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> What is tatastha consciousness?. <o:p></o:p> Tatastha means those living entities who are neutral, inactive or dormant in consciousness, who are border line, neither in the Vaikuntha’s or the mahat-tattva <o:p></o:p> The tatastha-shakti is located on the boundaries between the material and spiritual energies. Tatastha means “in between”. It also means that this consciousness condition of the marginal living entity is sometimes manifested and sometimes not manifested, like the material energy. Yet the potency is always there since it exists within the Supreme Lord as a part and parcel of the marginal status of the living entity. What is the marginal living entity? What is the jiva soul? What is the nitya-siddha perpetual body? What is nitya baddha consciousness? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva - "Marginal means "on the margin or border". That is what Tatastha means as well". The Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha (dormant), Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahman are not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather the dormant state of the marginal living entities or jiva souls condition of being or inactive consciousness when they attempt to become inactive. <o:p></o:p> This motionless individual consciousness that can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation) is called the nitya-baddha inferior self or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entity. This nitya-baddha consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to ‘dream’ of self importance and indulgence. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada- "There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like”. From "The Journey of Self Discovery - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> In other words, the marginal living entity, referred to as the jiva soul, has two aspects of consciousness; one is a perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form (nitya-siddha) while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) <o:p></o:p> The living entities are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy as perpetual bodily servants known as nitya-siddhas, when the marginal livig entity misuses their independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords; they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but as a secondary consciousness called nitya-baddha. The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal. <o:p></o:p> The jivas don’t belong to the marginal energy, because they ARE the marginal energy that is embodied in their original full constitutional foundation, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. The marginal living entity can also be known as “tatastha sakti” due to their inferior or secondary nitya-baddha consciousness when it enters a dormant inactive state of consciousness, ONLY after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness. <o:p></o:p> That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy in our ‘svarupa’ body eternally beyond mundane time and space, we always have the propensity to misuse our independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our ‘svarupa’ body and instead try to lord it over Krishna’s material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> In this way the jiva or marginal living entity, as their secondary dreaming sub-conscious self, falsely identifies with the Lord’s material energy, and in fact it predominates over them and defeats them repeatedly in their attempts, again and again to be the controller. The impermanent perishable nature of the mahat-tattva frustrates the nitya-baddha consciousness and eventually AGAIN they seek the shelter of Impersonalism or tatastha falsely thinking this is their original position.. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 <o:p></o:p> In this context, the Brahma-sayujya and tatastha s’akti is a description of the marginal living entities in their dormant condition of consciousness <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “The spiritual potency of the Lord is manifested in three phases — the internal or spiritual potency, the marginal potency, which consists of the living entities, and the external potency, known as māyā-śakti. We must understand that in each of these three phases the original spiritual potencies of pleasure, eternity and knowledge remain intact. When the potencies of spiritual pleasure and knowledge are both bestowed upon the conditioned souls, the conditioned souls can escape the clutches of the external potency, māyā, which acts as a cover obscuring one's spiritual identity. When freed, the living entity awakens to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and engages in devotional service with love and affection”. Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 6.160<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The original characteristics of a substance are called svarūpa, and the subsequent corollaries are called taṭastha-lakṣaṇa, or marginal characteristics. The glories of the Lord's marginal characteristics prove Him to be the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the son of Mahārāja Nanda. As soon as one understands this, one accepts Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī krishna.Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 18.126<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The forgetful jiva (marginal living entity manifesting as their secondary inferior consciousness), is now unaware of their perpetual ‘svarupa’ body in Goloka, becomes under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu and provided with shelter within His Body, The marginal position of the jīva soul or living entity manifesting as their secondary nitya-baddha conscious projection, is completely forgetful of their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with Krishna automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with Krishna, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection relying on the bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu". <o:p></o:p> The nitya-baddha consciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha and about 170 other jiva definations however, they are all the extended secondary consciousness of their nitya-siddha body when one chooses to use their free will and ignore Krishna.

Yes we are dreaming our material existance as well as our existance in the Impersonal Bramajyoti if we dare go there Srila Prabhupada - "we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on".Bombay, December 27, 1972 Srila Prabhupada - "You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams" Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967 According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva- maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion or ignorance Srila Prabhupada - "Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna" Letter to Australian devotees 1972 When we’re dreaming, we think it’s real. It seems real, no matter how mixed up the dream is. That’s life in the material world. We think it’s real, but it’s not. It’s a real dream. But still a dream. Srila Prabhupada - "when the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland" Bombay, December 27, 1972 There is no beginning or end to the creation so in the face of eternity time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning. In this way all the marginal living entities are always in their full expression of nitya-siddha-svarupa and that can never change. All of us are eternally in Goloka since our devotional svarupa body can never fall down as the Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita teaches us. We just have to wake up from this mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu’s and realize this fact Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 In this dreaming state, after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu, we forget our actual position IN Goloka and thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. The Vedic texts describe that the Supreme Creator (In His Maha-Vishnu Form) produces the material world by His dreaming in yoga-nidra , His mystic slumber. Thus, the material creation is the Supreme Being's dream, or a display of His thought energy. Furthermore, the Vedic literature describes how the Supreme Being exists outside the boundaries of the material manifestation from where He begins the process of creation. So, He is indeed "beyond what He created. These states of consciousness correspond with the four states known technically as jagrat, svapna, susupti, and turiya - or the wakeful state, the dreaming state, the dreamless state, and the transcendental state. Srila Prabhupada - "This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38) Srila Prabhupada "Just as a dreamer dreams his being fast asleep and dreaming of things (friends, relations, business, etc.), which are really inside him, and when he wakes up from this dream to the original one, imagines himself awake though he is still dreaming, even so the perceiver should realise this waking (state) as a mere dream created by Maya, the jiva’s own deluding power. Therefore one should break the illusion of this waking state by fixing one’s attention only on Me, its Witness. Know Me to be the transcendental Reality, the very Self (of the dreaming jiva), Brahman, the Consciousness which experiences and transcends the three states of waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep. When Krishna is forgotten, the jiva (as there nitya-0baddha secondary self) comes to imagine himself different from serving Krishna and, thus, starts turning endlessly on the wheel of birth and death. He who fails to take advantage of his human body through which he can acquire Self-knowledge and devotion, can never hope to live in peace. One should, therefore, stop indulging in activities which appear to be conducive to freedom and happiness, but from which one reaps nothing but misery. Using discrimination and wisdom one should give up the sense-pleasure of this world and the next and develop devotion to Krishna. For only through intense concentration of hearing and chanting the glories of Krishna can the mind acquire the power to realise the original identity and svarupa of the jiva (nitya-siddha) and their pepertual rasa with the Supreme Personality of Godhead (Krishna) whom is the sole aim of all human endeavour. Srila Prabhupada - “A spirit soul who falls down from the brahmajyoti to the kingdom of maya may have a chance of associating with a pure devotee, and then he may be elevated to the spiritual planets of vaikuntha or to goloka vrindaban. from the brahmajyoti there is no direct promotion to the spiritual planets, and it is clearly stated in the bhagavatam that such souls fall down: patanty adha". 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka We all can enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva (material creation) Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally. Srila Prabhupada -"Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp. Srila Prabhupada explains that ‘marginal’ means the tendency of the living being to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently within the material creation or mahat-tattva”. Srila Prabhupada – “Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krishna, so Krishna is giving consciousness: “All right, you can forget Me in this way.” Srila Prabhupada- 'That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krishna is giving him intelligence. “All right. You forget Me like this.” That’s all. Go on. Srila Prabhupada - "And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krishna will give you intelligence. Buddhi yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: “I shall give intelligence.” So KrishnaYe yatha mam prapadyante. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. is... " Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, so Krishna has given an opportunity"April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan Devotee: What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world? Srila Prabhupada: You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)... When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called Maya. When you forget Krishna, that is material. And as soon as you become Krishna conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here, this temple is not in London. It is Vaikuntha. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 - Srila Prabhupada says that we are always with Krishna and are now in a situation where “we think we have fallen’. Srila Prabhupada -"As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.” Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”. Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”. Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) Srila Prabhupada -"Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krishna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, so Krishna has given an opportunity: “All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this.April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan

Shiva, read the following carefully - you are not understanding what I have presented, your are not comprehending this subject and what I have clearly said, proving clearly that Srila Prabhupada said we do not originate from a tatastha state of our consciousness BECAUSE ALL marginal living entities or jivas have a perpetual bodily form that NEVER leaves Goloka or Vaikuntha. Try and understand this and forget about this nonsense idea we, the marginal living entity or jiva, originates from some nonsense Impersonal tatastha s'akti concept of their own marginal consciousness. Such Impersonalism has unfortunately polluted so many Vaishnave groups and their presentation or translation of the Acarayas and Shastra. What does that mean and what is the trueth? It simply means that our own marginal identity (also known as jiva) as its dreaming secondary bodiless consciousness is really the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti. This secondary consciousness of the jiva soul or marginal living entity is simply a manifestation of the marginal living entities or jiva souls dormant or inactive as nitya-baddha secondary dreaming dreamless consciousness achieved only after actively travelling rgrough the maha-tattva. Let me gradually explain as follows - <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather the dormant state of the marginal living entities or jiva souls secondary (nitya-baddha)condition of being or inactive consciousness when they attempt to become inactive after experiencing frustration within the mahat-tattva. Attempting to obliterate their consciousness means they have no information or realization that they (every marginal living entity or jiva soul) has a perpetual body eternally established within the timeless realm of Goloka-Vrndavana.<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti and personal told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago, not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha) that is facilitated with bodily costumes provided by Maha-Vishnu, or can eventually merge as an individual spark of consciousness within His body, which is true but only after we have 'sub-consciously' come down from Goloka as our nitya-baddha dreaming conscious thoughts. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, ffice:smarttags" />February 18, 1977</B></I><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Technically there is no origin to the jivas or living entities because they all have an eternal bodily form in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is there without beginning or end.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection relying on the bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu". <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT size=4>The nitya-baddha consciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha and about 170 other jiva definations however, they are all the extended secondary consciousness of their nitya-siddha body when one chooses to use their free will and ignore <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</SPAN></st1:place><font color=" /><st1:place><FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman">Krishna</st1:place><FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman">. <FONT color=black><o:p></o:p> <FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p> <FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>You are therefore correct that the jiva can come from tatastha however they all (nitya-baddha consciousneses) have to first travel through the the mahat-tattva first before reaching that dormant state of their own dreamless dream. <FONT color=black><o:p></o:p> <FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p><FONT size=3></o:p> <FONT color=black><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The nitya-baddha or secondary dreaming condition of the jiva-tattva are the same, such a sub-conscious projection of the marginal living entity while forgetful of their nitya-sidda genuin and eternal bodily form serving Krishna in Goloka, is devoid of form until they are either given form by Maha-Vishnu or teturn back home back to Godhead to their original perpetual svarupa or rasa bodily form in Goloka.<FONT color=black><o:p></o:p>

In this way the forgetful jiva, now unaware of their perpetual ‘svarupa’ body in Goloka, becomes under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu and provided with shelter within His Body, The marginal position of the jīva soul or living entity manifesting as their secondary nitya-baddha conscious projection, is completely forgetful of their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka. The śrutis confirm: nityo nityānāḿ cetanaś cetanānām. (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 5.13 and Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.13) When they are sent forth from the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu at the beginning of MATERIAL creation, the jīvas are all equal in the sense that they are all atomic particles of the Lord's marginal energy. But according to their differing conditions, they divide into four groups: Some are covered by ignorance, which obscures their vision like a cloud. Others become liberated from ignorance through a combination of knowledge and devotion. A third group of souls become endowed with pure devotion, with a slight mixture of desire for speculative knowledge and fruitive activity. Those souls attain purified bodies composed of perfect knowledge and bliss with which they can engage in the Lord's service’. Finally, there are those who are devoid of any connection with ignorance; these are the Lord's eternal associates as their nitya-siddha fullness that comes to the mahat-tattva as a service to Krishna. Svarupa Damodara: The spirit soul must necessarily have a body, either spiritual or material. Prabhupada: He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Krsna. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies. . . . . . . . Paramahamsa: But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return. But nevertheless, Jagai, and..., the two gatekeepers, they returned? Prabhupada: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is. Paramahamsa: If we want. Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare. The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna. That’s all. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore." Paramahamsa: So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position. Prabhupada: Yes. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles In the service of Srila Prabhupadas Sankirtan Movement with the aim to eliminate Impersonalism and the offensive idea we all originate from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti All glories to Srila Prabhupada

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather the dormant state of the marginal living entities or jiva souls condition of being or inactive consciousness when they attempt to become inactive. This motionless individual consciousness, that can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation) is called the nitya-baddha inferior self or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entitity. This nitya-baddha consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to ‘dream’ of self importance and indulgence. Srila Prabhupada- "There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like”. From "The Journey of Self Discovery - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada In other words, the marginal living entity, referred to as the jiva soul, has two aspects of consciousness, one is a perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form (nitya-siddha) while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) There is three characteristics to Krishna’s energy - 1. The authentic and original state of the marginal living entity or jiva soul is their eternal and perpetual ‘svarupa’ body engaged in their selfless Krishna conscious rasa serving Krishna (NITYA-SIDDHA). There is no beginning or end to the entire creation of Lord Krishna, so in the face of eternity; time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning. 2. The second aspect of the marginal living entity or jiva-soul, is a dreaming bodiless non-Krishna–consciousness called the NITYA-BADDHA self, that can only expressed as fading and imperishable dreams outside Goloka or Vaikuntha. In other words the nitya-baddha consciousness is the marginal living entities (jiva) own dream projections that enter the mahat-tattva (material creation), or can also manifest as the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha etc which is really the Impersonal condition of their own (the marginal living entity or jiva) secondary conscious state. In this way the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Impersonal Brahman is a ‘collective’ of individual jivas or marginal living entities manifesting dormant as their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that that appear like ‘inactive’ sparks in a fire or rays of the sun. The permanent full identity, personality, individuality, character and body of the marginal living entity nitya-siddha) is eternally in Goloka or Vaikuntha’s imperishable atmosphere that is beyond the past, present and future of the mahat-tattva and the non-existence of past, present and future within the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti. 3. The third energy of Krishna is the mahat-tattva or material creation which includes the ethereal and biological containments that the jiva soul (marginal living entity) in their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness wear as a costume that enables them be part of the mahat-tattva, just like a submarine vessel enables one to be part of the oceans environment. In a similar way the ethereal and biological vessels are one with and part of the mahat-tattva Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, the living entity is originally the spiritual part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but due to his rebellious nature, he is conditioned within material nature. It really does not matter how these living entities or superior entities of the Supreme Lord have come into contact with material nature. The Supreme Personality of Godhead knows, however, how and why this actually took place.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.20, purport In this way all the marginal living entities are always in their full expression of nitya-siddha-svarupa bodily form within the unchanging Spiritual Sky in their full bodily expression eternally. Even though there is no concept of time as we know it, there are unending pastimes going on there that are imperishable. In other words everything and everybody (all of Krishna’s marginal potency) are already there in Goloka serving Krishna in a particular rasa that has always existed without Beginning or end. This is Important to understand Srila Prabhupada told us during one of his intimate conversions. This bodily relationship with Krishna in Goloka or Vaikuntha is always there and can never change even if the marginal living entity uses their free will to choose to enter their own dreams of illusionary greatness and dream as/in their secondary sub-conscious projection that is called the nitya-baddha consciousness.. This secondary non-Krishna Conscious ‘dreaming’ version of the ‘marginal living entity’ can only exist outside of Goloka within the material creation or mahat-tattva contained in the mahat-yattva’s ethereal and biological vessels. In this way the nitya-baddha consciousness or the secondary ‘dreaming’ condition of the jiva (marginal living entity) can enter the mahat-tattva, or eventually proceed to its own dormant condition of consciousness, achieved with great difficulty only after spending billions of life times passing through the bodily ornaments of the mahat-tattva (ethereal and biological containers). Srila Prabhupada - "It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature . . .” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, page 323. The Personality of Godhead and His emanations, such as the jīva souls or marginal living entities, are simultaneously different and nondifferent, just like the sun and its expanding rays. There are more jīvas or marginal living entities than anyone can count, and each of them is eternally alive with consciousness and an original perpetual bodily form that remains imperishable in Vaikuntha or Goloka, even if one sub-consciously enters a dreaming state of consciousness (nitya-baddha) within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. . Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, the living entity is originally the spiritual part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but due to his rebellious nature, he is conditioned within material nature. It really does not matter how these living entities or superior entities of the Supreme Lord have come into contact with material nature. The Supreme Personality of Godhead knows, however, how and why this actually took place.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.20, purport The jiva’s or living entities in their full expression of sat-cit-ananda-VIGRAHA as their perpetual nitya-siddha bodily form in Goloka, can however choose to use their free will and ignore or forget Krishna and the ceaseless body they serve Krishna as, which is who they really are ceaselessly within the everlasting devotional atmosphere and pastimes of Goloka.. Such unconscious dreams of the marginal living entity or jiva is called the nitya-baddha conscious projection. Such dreams and not their nitya-siddha body, enter the dreams of Maha Vishnu as a secondary dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha). Srila Bhaktisiddanta - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83

What is the marginal living entity? What is the jiva soul? What is the nitya-siddha perpetual body? What is nitya-baddha consciousness? What is tatastha? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman? Shiva and Akruranatha I hope you have read the following carefully. Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 Shiva, you are not understanding what I have presented, your 'paste and cut' quotes do obviously do not provide you with the realization necessary to understand this subject that clearly proves that we do not originate from a tatastha state of consciousness of our own marginal identity (also known as jiva), which is really the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, that is simply a manifestation of the marginal living entities or jiva souls manifesting dormantly or inactively as their nitya-baddha secondary dreaming dreamless consciousness. Let ne gradually explain as follows - Srila Prabhupada rejected that idea and personal told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago, not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness that is facilitated by Maha-Vishnu, which is true but only after we have come down from Goloka. There is an example below where the shastra states our origin is from the body of Maha Vishnu, but what that really means is we enter that condition only AFTER we have used our free will to leave Goloka, not as our perpetual body, because that is not possible, but rather as our dreams and thoughts manifesting as a sub-conscious projection called the nitya-baddha consciousness. No marginal living entity (jivas) originates from the body of Maha-Vishnu or the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. Technically there is no origin to the jives or living entities becausre they all have an eternal bodily form in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is there without beginning or end. Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) What the Vedas call the jiva in most cases only refers to our secondary nitya-baddha consciousness AFTER we have entered the dreams of Maha Vishnu. You have to read ALL of Srila Prabhupadas books and hear his lectures and morning walks to understand. There are over 170 meanings of the word jiva and most refer to the nitya-baddha consciousness and not the marginal living entities full Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily identity. Many great pandits and Vaishnava Guru’s cannot even understand this because it is not possible to understand through book knowledge only, their must be personal realization what the jiva really is perpetually nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha. Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with Krishna automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with Krishna, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Akruranatha dasa wrote - “The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal. The jivas belong to the marginal energy, also known as “tatastha sakti”. That means, although they are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy, they may misuse their independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords over His material energy. In so doing, they falsely identify with the Lord’s material energy, and in fact it predominates over them and defeats them. (Although they have the illusion or “dream” that they may predominate over the Lord’s energy, they are repeatedly defeated in their attempts, again and again). It is not a question of “tatastha consciousness”. Where are you getting that phrase from?” End of Akruranatha dasa’s comment Reply Akruranatha dasa everything you have written I agree with and have explained, except of course that we originate from tatastha consciousness. What is tatastha consciousness, read carefully the following. The following essay is based on the teachings of His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. What is the marginal living entity? What is the jiva soul? What is the nitya-siddha perpetual body? What is nitya baddha consciousness? What is tatastha? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman? The living entities are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy as perpetual bodily servants known as nitya-siddhas, when the marginal livig entity misuses their independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords; they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but as a secondary consciousness called nitya-baddha. The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal. The jivas don’t belong to the marginal energy, they are the marginal energy that is embodied in their original constitutional origins which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. They can also be known as “tatastha sakti” due to their inferior or secondary nitya-baddha consciousness when it enters a dormant inactive state of consciousness, after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness. This is an important point to try and understand. In 1972 in Australia I was sitting in on this topic with devotees as we travelled around Australia in a double Decker bus. Srila Prabhupada told us we have an eternal body and a dreaming consciousness if we ignore Krishna and simultaneously that Krishna Conscious body. To me this understanding is clear’ That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy in our ‘svarupa’ body, we may misuse our independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our ‘svarupa’ body and instead try to lord it over Krishna’s material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu. In this way the jiva or marginal living entity, as their secondary dreaming sub-conscious self, falsely identifies with the Lord’s material energy, and in fact it predominates over them and defeats them repeatedly in their attempts, again and again to be the controller. The impermanent perishable nature of the mahat-tattva frustrates the nitya-baddha consciousness and eventually AGAIN they seek the shelter of Impersonalism or tatastha falsely thinking this is their original position.. Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

Srila Prabhupada - "You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams" Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967 Srila Prabhupada - "Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna" Letter to Australian devotees 1972 Srila Prabhupada - "When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krsna's lila. But differences we see under different conditions. Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krsna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna".Letter to Australian devotees 1972 Prabhupada - "So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down" 760708ed.wdc Conversations Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question, "what is the difference between the spirit souls comprising the Brahmajyoti and the spirit souls here in Maya?", in the Brahmajyoti the spirit souls on account of their impersonal views are devoid of a body, exactly like here in Maya there are ghosts who are devoid of any gross bodies. The ghost being devoid of a body, he suffers terribly because he is unable to satisfy his senses". 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit souls in the Brahmajyoti, although they have no desire for sense gratification, still they feel inconvenience like the ghost, and they fall down again in the Maya's atmosphere and develop a material body". 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada - "In the Bhagavat therefore it is said that persons who are impersonalists and do not develop the dormant devotional attitude, their intelligence is not pure, because for want of a spiritual body, they come down again to the material world".69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada - "In the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said by the lord that the only way of not coming back to the material world is to be promoted to the spiritual planets. for the impersonalists there is no such assurance of not falling down in the whole vedic literature. 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada - "The conclusion is that without developing the spiritual body and without being situated on one of the spiritual planets, the so-called liberation is also illusion, or it is not complete. 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada - "A spirit soul who falls down from the brahmajyoti to the kingdom of maya may have a chance of associating with a pure devotee, and then he may be elevated to the spiritual planets of vaikuntha or to goloka vrindaban. from the brahmajyoti there is no direct promotion to the spiritual planets, and it is clearly stated in the bhagavatam that such souls fall down: patanty adha". 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga Srila Prabhupada restated this in yet another way: “We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar with the material world, or maya.” But when we chant the Hare Krishna mantra sincerely and without offense, our original Krishna consciousness is at once revived. “So naturally everything about Krishna is originally known to us all, and as soon as we begin to associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His holy name, this memory gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always serving Krishna in different ways.” Our separation from Krishna, Srila Prabhupada taught, is like a dream. We dream, “I am this body,” and we dream of happiness in material relationships. This dreaming condition is our non-liberated state. But although this state of dreaming may seem to last for lifetimes, as soon as we become Krishna conscious we awaken, and the dream at once disappears. “After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila [pastimes] of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, like dreaming.” Tatastha consciousness is actually the dreamless dreaming state of the nitya-baddha consciousness ACHIEVED after passing through the mahat-tattva. Therefore jiva tatastha is not the foundation or origin of whom the living entity really is. No living entity can originate from tatastha condition of individual consciousness, they can only enter that dreamless dreaming conscious condition temporarily. Srila Prabhupada - 'He (the living entity) thinks that (impersonal Brahmajyoti) may be his origin , but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 And why is this so? Because the permeant imperishable condition of all living entities is their perpetually nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is eternally liberated and always situate in Goloka or Vaikuntha, even if one is 'dreaming' as there nitya-baddha consciousness that can manifests as jiva bhutah (actively conditioned in the mahat-tattva) and can eventually manifest as jiva-tatastha (dormant or inactive consciousness) for a temorary time and then again falls back to being embodied within the mahat-tattva. Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) In other words our Svarupa body is eternal even if we are dreaming we are in the maha-tattva or tatastha condition of consciousness. Also being in tatastha is NOT spiritual in the sense of devotional mellows as Srila Prabhupada has explained. Also the meaning of the Sanskrit word Svarupa is explained by - Srila Prabhupada - “Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad-Gita as it is 4.6 Actually what you are presenting are misconceptions and a collection juggled quotes that give an incorrect presentation of Srila Prabhupada teachings. What you are trying to present to others is not understanding the essence of his teachings nor the depth, in fact it appears to be polluted by other so called Vishnava sects that also could never understand that Srila Prabhupada made it very clear we all never originated from 'tatastha consciousness'. Also it was Srila Prabhupada who said we never originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti characteristic of individual consciousness. He made it very clear we did not originate from tatastha consciousness which is the impersonal condition of ones nitya baddha dreaming consciousness, which is a secondary conditional state of the marginal living entity activated when they want to attempt to be lord and forget Krishna and their own nitya-siddha eternal body. Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. (Lecture, Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.29.2b. Srila Prabhupada - "But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krishna consciousnesses. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 The nitya baddha dreaming consciousness that enters the material dreaming creation of Maha-Vishnu as self centred dreams can later proceed to the tatastha impersonal condition of a dreamless dream. This is certainly not a separate place, but rather a conditional state of individual consciousness manifesting in a cluster called the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Tatastha is simply a state of individual consciousness sometimes referred to as jiva tatastha or s’akti, or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti sometimes called jiva sparks or rays of living individual particles of light, which is really a cluster of marginal living entities manifesting as their dreaming dreamless nitya-baddha consciousness. Every marginal living entity has both a perpetual nitya-siddha body and the propensity to manifest a nitya baddha consciousness due to free will. Without free will everything would be all one consciousness Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) Srila Prabhupada - "He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Krishna. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles). Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual sky of the Brahmajyoti there is no change of various kalpas or millenniums, and there are no creative activities in the Vaikuntha worlds. The influence of time is conspicuous by its absence. The rays of the transcendental body of the Lord, the unlimited Brahmajyoti, are undeterred by the influence of material energy. Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.3 purport, This goes way deeper than many can presently comprehend. There is a paradox in trying to understand this. You are right if you say the nitya-baddha consciousness does not come from Goloka because only the nitya-siddhas are in Goloka. So what is nitya-baddha consciousness? If it does not came from Goloka where does it come from? This is hard to understand and explain in English. I think the best way to understand this is let’s compare the nitya-siddha body to a bright Sun and the nitya-baddha consciousness to darkness. In the presents of the sun there is no darkness, it simply does not exist. In the same way, in the presents or awareness of ones nitya-siddha body, there is no nitya-baddha consciousness, it simply does not exist. Also when there is darkness (nitya-baddha) it's not that there is no sun (nitya-siddha), it simply means we cannot see it. Srila Prabhupada – “'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. The darkness or the nitya-baddha consciousness is compared also to the tatastha condition of consciousness that is a characteristic born of darkness, such consciousness is tatastha s’akti of the jiva. In fact within that darkness also exists the mahat-tattva dreams of Maha-Vishnu. Now this place is a real manifestation in the spiritual Sky that takes up 25%, so it is not an illusion it is simply a temporary phenomenon Srila Prabhupada – “.We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, In this way the jiva as there nitya-baddha secondary self originates from the darkness, from tatastha however, the full potential of the marginal living entity is always in Goloka or Vaikuntha as their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body serving Krishna. It is very clear that we never originated from tatastha consciousness because we are already a resident of Goloka and have been there without beginning or end; presently we cannot see that because we are dreaming. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada - ‘However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul’s original spiritual rasas.’ Prema-pradipa, p. 83 The true facts of Spiritual life and the identity, personality, individuality of all marginal living entities, is their full Svarupa, expression of Vigraha (bodily form) eternal loving selfless devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna, the cause of all causes. Our full spiritual identity does not originate from tatastha only our secondary nitya-baddha consciousness can enter the mahat-tattva and then the tatastha condition of inactive or dormant consciousness. We (our full constitutional nitya-siddha body) certainly do not originate from tatastha consciousness; no jiva soul (marginal living entity) originates from such an impersonal foundation that is not possible because perpetually we are eternal bodily servants of Krishna in Goloka.

I play Srila Prabhupadas famous 1966 recording of the Hare Krishna Mantra 24 hours a day - in the car, at home, eating prasad, in the background while I chant my rounds gayatri and now while on the computer. There is something very auspicious about that particular chanting from Srila Prabhupada, it will clear away your own mental demons. Humbly Sarva

Prisoners and Jailers Dance Together By Deena Bandhu dasa Every year for Janmastami we have a big program in Agra Central Jail with very enthusiastic participation from the prisoners who make Krishna Lila dioramas. Unfortunately this year there was civil unrest in Agra do to rioting by a certain community and there was curfew. But several days later after things were peaceful, the superintendent of the Jail invited us for doing a wonderful program. So on 12th September, the devotees headed by Jankinatha Prabhu, our Prison Preaching in charge, went to Agra Central Jail. His Holiness Radha Govinda Maharaja was the guest of honor accompanied by His Holiness Radharaman Maharaja and our Vrindavan co-President, Srestha Prabhu. Somehow Jankinatha also convinced Aindra Prabhu and his kirtan party to come, although he hardly goes anywhere outside of Braja. When the devotees arrived, the Chief Jailer and five Deputy Jailers were standing outside the gates with garlands to greet the devotees. From behind the gates, we could hear an enthusiastic kirtan being performed by the prisoners themselves. After opening the gates, they were greeted by about 20 prisoners doing kirtan with one playing dholak and another with harmonium strung over his shoulders. Aindra Prabhu was very impressed with the unique village melody they were chanting. All the prisoners were standing with garlands in their hands, anxious to honor the devotees. The kirtan at the gate was so ecstatic, that the jailers, prisoners, maharajas, and devotees all began to all dance together. They accompanied the devotees up to the small Sita Ram Mandir run by the prisoners on the prison campus. They also have pictures of Radha Shyamsundar, Krishna Balaram, Gaura Nitai, and Srila Prabhupada on their altar. They even do Guru Puja, kirtan, and Bhagavatam class every day at this temple. Today they requested His Holiness Radha Govinda Maharaja to offer aratika. After aratika, they accompanied the devotees to the stage where Maharaja offered a garland to the picture of Srila Prabhupada. Then the two maharajas and Srestha Prabhu took their seats on the asana. Janakinatha Prabhu lead the prisoners in Mangalacaran prayers and meditations as you can see in the photos. His Holiness Radha Govinda Maharaja addressed the prisoners and told them that Vasudeva carried Krishna from the jail and all the doors automatically opened up. In the same way if you will carry Krishna in your heart by chanting His Holy Name, then what to speak of the bondage of prison life, the bondage of this entire blazing samsara will be opened for you! He told them how they were very fortunate that the ISKCON devotees are coming here to the jail and giving you the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu as imparted by Srila Prabhupada. Then Radharaman Maharaja spoke and Aindra also briefly addressed the prisoners with translation to Hindi by Srestha Prabhu. Aindra Prabhu then lead a tremendous kirtan for forty minutes. Finally the Chief Jailer and five deputy jailers were dancing together with two thousand prisoners. The chanting was so ecstatic, that both the Maharajas, Aindra Prabhu, and Srestha Prabhu left the stage and also began to dance along with the prisoners. Everyone was dancing and chanting in ecstasy. Too bad our photographer went somewhere and we don’t have the pictures, only you can see the prison ground as they were only half assembled. After the kirtan ended, the Chief Jailer Sri S.K. Saxena took the microphone and exclaimed, “Today I have experienced beyond ananda, nay, beyond parmananda, nay, even beyond that! I have never in my whole life had such a wonderful program. The devotees then distributed burn-your-finger hot halevah to the two thousand prisoners who were very eagerly taking the prasada that was sponsored by Srestha Prabhu. No one could believe that this was all happening in jail. Even five local TV reporters came to cover the program along with all the other media. So it got quite a bit of coverage and people were able to see Srila Prabhupada’s preaching going on in the jail. Prison Preaching Ki Jaya! Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya! In service of Srimati Vrinda Devi, Deena Bandhu dasa <!-- end .post-middle --><!-- the bottom of the post, the background graphic gets applied here -->

We did not originate from tatastha consciousness<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p>Jiva prabhu, your understanding of what I presented about tatastha consciousness has not been correctly understood by you. On many occasions in my writing I have made it clear that tatatstha is a state of consciousness of the marginal living entity, namely the marginal living entities DREAMING nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> What I have said all along is that tatastha consciousness is actually the dreamless dreaming state of the nitya-baddha consciousness ACHIEVED after passing through the mahat-tattva. Therefore jiva tatastha is not the foundation or origin of whom the living entity really is. No living entity can originate from tatastha condition of individual consciousness, they can only enter that dreamless dreaming conscious condition temporarily. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'He (the living entity) thinks that (impersonal Brahmajyoti) may be his origin , but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And why is this so? Because the permeant imperishable condition of all living entities is their perpetually nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is eternally liberated and always situate in Goloka or Vaikuntha, even if one is 'dreaming' as there nitya-baddha consciousness that can manifests as jiva bhutah (actively conditioned in the mahat-tattva) and can eventually manifest as jiva-tatastha (dormant or inactive consciousness) for a temorary time and then again falls back to being embodied within the mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com . Also it was Srila Prabhupada who said we never originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti characteristic of individual consciousness. He made it very clear we did not originate from tatastha consciousness which is the impersonal condition of ones nitya baddha dreaming consciousness, which is a secondary conditional state of the marginal living entity activated when they want to attempt to be lord and forget Krishna and their own nitya-siddha eternal body. . Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 . Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 . Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. (Lecture, <st1:City><st1:place>Atlanta</st1:place></st1:City>, March 2, 1975) . The tatastha condition of consciousness is simply the dream of the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness after they become fed up of actively dreaming within the mahat-tattva creation of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu and controlled by His wife Maya. . Srila Prabhupada - ' alt='b] '>Krishna</st1:place>’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - " /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In other words our Svarupa body is eternal even if we are dreaming we are in the maha-tattva or tatastha condition of consciousness. Also being in tatastha is NOT spiritual in the sense of devotional mellows as Srila Prabhupada has explained.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Also the meaning of the Sanskrit word Svarupa is explained by Srila Prabhupada - “Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad-Gita as it is 4.6<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Actually what you are presenting are misconceptions and a collection juggled quotes that give an incorrect presentation of Srila Prabhupada teachings. What you are trying to present to others is not understanding the essence of his teachings nor the depth, in fact it appears to be polluted by other so called Vishnava sects that also could never understand that Srila Prabhupada made it very clear we all never originated from 'tatastha consciousness'. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Also it was Srila Prabhupada who said we never originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti characteristic of individual consciousness. He made it very clear we did not originate from tatastha consciousness which is the impersonal condition of ones nitya baddha dreaming consciousness, which is a secondary conditional state of the marginal living entity activated when they want to attempt to be lord and forget Krishna and their own nitya-siddha eternal body. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. (Lecture, ffice:smarttags" />.” Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.29.2b</B>.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - " /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousnesses. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The nitya baddha dreaming consciousness that enters the material dreaming creation of Maha-Vishnu as self centred dreams can later proceed to the tatastha impersonal condition of a dreamless dream. This is certainly not a separate place, but rather a conditional state of individual consciousness manifesting in a cluster called the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha is simply a state of individual consciousness sometimes referred to as jiva tatastha or s’akti, or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti sometimes called jiva sparks or rays of living individual particles of light, which is really a cluster of marginal living entities manifesting as their dreaming dreamless nitya-baddha consciousness. Every marginal living entity has both a perpetual nitya-siddha body and the propensity to manifest a nitya baddha consciousness due to free will. Without free will everything would be all one consciousness<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual sky of the Brahmajyoti there is no change of various kalpas or millenniums, and there are no creative activities in the Vaikuntha worlds. The influence of time is conspicuous by its absence. The rays of the transcendental body of the Lord, the unlimited Brahmajyoti, are undeterred by the influence of material energy. Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.3 purport,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This goes way deeper than many can presently comprehend. There is a paradox in trying to understand this. You are right if you say the nitya-baddha consciousness does not come from Goloka because only the nitya-siddhas are in Goloka. So what is nitya-baddha consciousness? If it does not came from Goloka where does it come from? This is hard to understand and explain in English.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I think the best way to understand this is let’s compare the nitya-siddha body to a bright Sun and the nitya-baddha consciousness to darkness. In the presents of the sun there is no darkness, it simply does not exist. In the same way, in the presents or awareness of ones nitya-siddha body, there is no nitya-baddha consciousness, it simply does not exist. Also when there is darkness (nitya-baddha) it's not that there is no sun (nitya-siddha), it simply means we cannot see it. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The darkness or the nitya-baddha consciousness is compared also to the tatastha condition of consciousness that is a characteristic born of darkness, such consciousness is tatastha s’akti of the jiva. In fact within that darkness also exists the mahat-tattva dreams of Maha-Vishnu. Now this place is a real manifestation in the spiritual Sky that takes up 25%, so it is not an illusion it is simply a temporary phenomenon<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “.We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way the jiva as there nitya-baddha secondary self originates from the darkness, from tatastha however, the full potential of the marginal living entity is always in Goloka or Vaikuntha as their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body serving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is very clear that we never originated from tatastha consciousness because we are already a resident of Goloka and have been there without beginning or end; presently we cannot see that because we are dreaming.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada - ‘However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul’s original spiritual rasas.’ Prema-pradipa, p. 83<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The true facts of Spiritual life and the identity, personality, individuality of all marginal living entities, is their full Svarupa, expression of Vigraha (bodily form) eternal loving selfless devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna, the cause of all causes. Our full spiritual identity does not originate from tatastha only our secondary nitya-baddha consciousness can enter the mahat-tattva and then the tatastha condition of inactive or dormant consciousness. We (our full constitutional nitya-siddha body) certainly do not originate from tatastha consciousness; no jiva soul (marginal living entity) originates from such an impersonal foundation that is not possible because perpetually we are eternal bodily servants of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.</o:p>

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p>No, they are growing pains of a young pioneering movement establishing itself so it WILL last for the next 10,000 years. For instance the Catholic and Protestant church have been abusing their congregation for thousands of years, child abuse has only become an issue with them in the last 10 years it has always been there under the surface and covered up <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The fortunate awareness that ISKCON has experienced over the last 40 years in the struggle to establish genuine spiritual activities is that such impurities in human society CAN effect everyone but it must be dealt with to protect future generations. In other words what the Catholic Church is now facing has taken over a thousand years and the Protestants over 500 years to address, where as ISKCON has realized these faults of humanan degradation and weakness right at the beginning of its birth within Global Society. In other words it has taken ISKCON less than 40 years to address issues that other religions have covered up for thousands of years. <o:p></o:p> I remember an incident at primary school in 1959, we had to describe two birds sitting on a fence, some described their colours others building a nest while I said because it was the beginning of the Spring season they are preparing to mate. The Nun was horrified that I used the ‘mate’ word and viciously wiped me over the back with a stick and sent me to the Head Masters office. Do most aspiring devotees today understand what establishing ISKCON in the West Srila Prabhupada was up against? The violence and ignorance we have all come out of? <o:p></o:p> It was only 60 years ago that 6000,000 Jews where murdered simply because of their religion. What Srila Prabhupada established in 1965 was very bold and revolutionary. It is a fact History is never recognised in its own time; therefore I am convinced that a time will come, hopefully in the 21 century, that the greatest achievement and recognition of the 20<SUP>th</SUP> Century will be the coming of His Divine Grace AC Bhabtivedanta Swami Prabhupada in 1965. <o:p></o:p> The physical, psychological and sexual abuse of children, the physical abuse of women and the ‘impersonal’ domineering and arrogant treatment of devotees and congregation is being dealt with in a very serious way today by ISKCON leaders such as Tamohara Prabhu, Hari Sauri prabhu, Ravindra Svarupa prabhu, Jayapartaka Swami and many others, they clearly understand that WHAT IS DONE TO CHILDREN IS WHAT THEY DO TO SOCIETY. . <o:p></o:p> We also have to learn from our mistakes and implement the lessons in such a way that even the most fallen and offensive can also be saved. Only Lord Chaitanya Movement can do that and this mercy we all must somehow realize in a Knowledgeable and compassionate way by many of the present and future ISKCON management. There are still realizations and improvements going on because we are still in the pioneering stage of ISKCON. <o:p></o:p> Many in ISKCON and coming to ISKCON will take time to be purified from the background of 21st and 20<SUP>th</SUP> centuries therefore what ‘tripping over themselves’ I prefer to call growing pains. We are at war with Maya therefore there will be causalities however, unlike the mundane religions who have covered up their transgressions, ISKCON is dealing with it and will survive because it is the prophecy of Lord Chaitanya. <o:p></o:p> I think these verse are especially relishable because they express the profound depth of humility which is the foundation of Srila Prabupadas real ISKCON - Caitanya-caritamrita – Madhya Lila by His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada - CC 2.2.188-206:<o:p></o:p> jaya jaya sri-krsna-caitanya daya-maya<o:p></o:p> patita-pavana jaya, jaya mahasaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "All glories to Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the most merciful savior of the fallen souls! All glories to the Supreme Personality!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nica-jati, nica-sangi, kari nica kaja<o:p></o:p> tomara agrete prabhu kahite vasi laja<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Sir, we belong to the lowest class of men, and our associates and employment are also of the lowest type. Therefore we cannot introduce ourselves to You. We feel very much ashamed, standing here before You.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> mat-tulyo nasti papatma<o:p></o:p> naparadhi ca kascana<o:p></o:p> parihare 'pi lajja me<o:p></o:p> kim bruve purusottama<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Dear Lord, let us inform you that no one is more sinful than us, nor is there any offender like us. Even if we wanted to mention our sinful activities, we would immediately become ashamed. And what to speak of giving them up!"<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> patita-pavana-hetu tomara avatara<o:p></o:p> ama-ba-i jagate, patita nahi ara<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Both brothers submitted, "Dear Lord, You have incarnated to deliver the fallen souls. You should consider that in this world there is none so fallen as us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> jagai-madhai dui karile uddhara<o:p></o:p> tahan uddharite srama nahila tomara<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You have delivered the two brothers Jagai and Madhai, but to deliver them You did not have to exert Yourself very much.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> brahmana-jati <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>tara</st1:place>, navadvipe ghara<o:p></o:p> nica-seva nahi kare, nahe nicera kurpara<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "The brothers Jagai and Madhai belonged to the brahmana caste, and their residence was in the holy place of Navadvipa. They never served low-class persons, nor were they instruments to abominable activities.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> sabe eka dosa tara, haya papacara<o:p></o:p> papa-rasi dahe namabhasei tomara<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Jagai and Madhai had but one fault--they were addicted to sinful activity. However, volumes of sinful activity can be burned to ashes simply by a dim reflection of the chanting of Your holy name.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> tomara nama lana tomara karila nindana<o:p></o:p> sei nama ha-ila <st1:place>tara</st1:place> muktira karana<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Jagai and Madhai uttered Your holy name by way of blaspheming You. Fortunately, that holy name became the cause of their deliverance.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> jagai-madhai haite koti koti guna<o:p></o:p> adhama patita papi ami dui jana<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "We two are millions and millions of times inferior to Jagai and Madhai. We are more degraded, fallen and sinful than they.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> mleccha-jati, mleccha-sevi, kari mleccha-karma<o:p></o:p> go-brahmana-drohi-sange amara sangama<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Actually we belong to the caste of meat-eaters because we are servants of meat-eaters. Indeed, our activities are exactly like those of the meat-eaters. Because we always associate with such people, we are inimical toward the cows and brahmanas."<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> mora karma, mora hate-galaya bandhiya<o:p></o:p> ku-visaya-vistha-garte diyache phelaiya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The two brothers, Sakara Mallika and Dabira Khasa, very humbly submitted that due to their abominable activities they were now bound by the neck and hands and had been thrown into a ditch filled with abominable stoollike objects of material sense enjoyment.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ama uddharite bali nahi tri-bhuvane<o:p></o:p> patita-pavana tumi----sabe toma vine<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "No one within the three worlds is sufficiently powerful to deliver us. You are the only savior of the fallen souls; therefore there is no one but You.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ama uddhariya yadi dekhao nija-bala<o:p></o:p> 'patita-pavana' nama tabe se saphala<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "If You simply deliver us by Your transcendental strength, then certainly Your name will be known as Patita-pavana, the savior of the fallen souls.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> satya eka bata kahon, suna, daya-maya<o:p></o:p> mo-vinu dayara patra jagate na haya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Let us speak one word that is very true. Plainly hear us, O merciful one. There is no other object of mercy within the three worlds but us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> more daya kari' kara sva-daya saphala<o:p></o:p> akhila brahmanda dekhuka tomara daya-bala<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "We are the most fallen; therefore by showing us Your mercy, Your mercy is most successful. Let the power of Your mercy be exhibited throughout the entire universe!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> na mrsa paramartham eva me<o:p></o:p> srnu vijnapanam ekam agratah<o:p></o:p> yadi me na dayisyase tada<o:p></o:p> dayaniyas tava natha durlabhah<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> " 'Let us submit one piece of information before You, dear Lord. It is not at all false but is full of meaning. It is this: If You are not merciful upon us, then it will be very, very difficult to find more suitable candidates for Your mercy.'<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> apane ayogya dekhi' mane pan ksobha<o:p></o:p> tathapi tomara gune upajaya lobha<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "We are very depressed at being unfit candidates for Your mercy. Yet since we have heard of Your transcendental qualities, we are very much attracted to You.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> vamana yaiche canda dharite cahe kare<o:p></o:p> taiche ei vancha mora uthaye antare<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "Indeed, we are like a dwarf who wants to capture the moon. Although we are completely unfit, a desire to receive Your mercy is awakening within our minds.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> bhavantam evanucaran nirantarah<o:p></o:p> prasanta-nihsesa-mano-rathantarah<o:p></o:p> kadaham aikantika-nitya-kinkarah<o:p></o:p> praharsayisyami sanatha-jivitam<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> " 'By serving You constantly, one is freed from all material desires and is completely pacified. When shall I engage as Your permanent eternal servant and always feel joyful to have such a fitting master?' " </o:p>

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. but those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down. 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa Srila Prabhupada – “Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence, but his relationship with krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the lord which is his original or constitutional position. the relationship of the living entity with krsna is eternal as both krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new. 70-04-25. Letter: Jagadisa Srila Prabhupada – ‘In the present status of our life we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position’ Introduction to Bhagavad Gita as it is

Srila Prabhupada: - So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down". 760708ed.wdc Conversations Srila Prabhupada: - "Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT". 760708ed.wdc Conversations Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: - 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport) Srila Prabhupada writes: “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: - 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

Srila Prabhupada: "So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down". 760708ed.wdc Conversations Srila Prabhupada: "Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT". 760708ed.wdc Conversations Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. 'We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka' Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport) Srila Prabhupada writes: “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> -- and in the association of genuine devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107):<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) Srila Prabhupada – "Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under--...That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – 'So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport<o:p></o:p> <o:p> PRABHUPADA - "All tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and that will be realised when one is liberated. <o:p></o:p> HANSADUTTA: So that's fixed already.<o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Krishna. That is called svarupa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service</o:p> HANSADUTTA: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some--<o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Srila Prabhupada – “Pure love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. http://caitanyacaritamrta. The perpetual nature of a Jiva is the eternal active servant of Krishna as their nitya-siddha-svarupa BODILY origin. A Jiva as the nitya-baddha-tatastha consciousness (border line) or potency of Krishna exists simultaneously as a separate and non-separated entity. In other words when one chooses to forget Krishna, one is unwilling to serve Krishna as their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily self and therefore it is that aversion to Krishna that causes the nitya-baddha bodiless conscious condition to exist. Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Unless one enters the mahat-tattva as a pure devotee or is playing a part within <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes, one can only otherwise enter the dark mahat-tattva cloud as their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that becomes trapped in a world of forgetfulness divided into past, present and future. In this way the nitya-baddha conscious characteristic of the jivatma or soul (nitya-siddha) is encaged in perishable ethereal and biological bodies which are ornaments or vessels that are non different from the mahat-tattva or material creation.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. <o:p></o:p> The nitya-baddha consciousness originates from the nitya-siddha MARGINAL body and is instantaneously in the mahat-tattva, divided time and space when one chooses to forget Krishna. Its not that we have two different selves, no, it’s not like that, there is only one marginal self that chooses to be with Krishna or reject Krishna. The simple choice all marginal living entities have is accepting ones Krishna Conscious perpetual body in Vaikuntha, while the other is rejecting Krishna and being confined to counterfeit temporary bodily forms in the mahat-tattva. The difference is eternal time in Goloka or Vaikuntha world beyond past and future that exists in the perpetual present in contrast to a mahat-tattva or material world that is governed by time, space, past, present and future. In other words it is not that we have an eternal body in Vaikuntha and we are simultaneously in the material world, no our 'svarupa' body in Goloka or Vaikuntha is always there however, we are also in the material world due to free will or choice. What separates our awareness from our perpetual niya-siddha-svarupa body and our present nitya-baddha consciousness trapped in an ethereal and biological body, is the concept of time that can place us in both places at the same time. What makes our consciousness appear to be sometimes divided into two (nitya-siddha and nitya baddha), where one is our perpetual Krishna conscious svarupa individual body,and the other our non-Krishna conscious state, is free will. We all have the choice to be with Krishna as our perpetual bodily identity or we can 'dream' of being something else. So how can we also be in the material world (mahat-tattva) and Goloka similtaniosly? The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self however, the nitya-siddha is always referred to as the eternal form or higher self of the marginal living entity, while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is called the secondary conscious projected lower self. It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. Just like in the presents of light darness cannot exist however, when there is no light then darkness is everwhere. Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing mercy of the Spiritual Master.

Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<i>Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Year=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned" Letter to Aniruddha, dated november 14th 1968 Srila Prabhupada – "Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with <FONT size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi" (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "You have got original relationship with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comNovember 14, 1968</st1:date>,<font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. Chaitanya-charitamrita. That is a... Just like you are son of some gentleman. That is a fact. It is not that the son becomes father or father becomes son. No. The son is son; the father is father. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under--...That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – 'So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE. The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> This extended conscious projection, known as the nitya-baddha consciousness, is then provided ethereal and biological vessels by Maha-Vishnu so one can give their dreams form within His mahat-tattva creation. This enables the inferior non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity to enter His dreaming mahat-tattva creation and seek out their mistaken desires of grandeur. <o:p></o:p> All life enters the maha-tattva originally from Goloka or Vaikuntha, no life or jiva souls can originate from the mahat-tattva or Maha-Vishnu, or its delusional temporary escape (Brahma-sayuyja or tatastha) Maha-Vishnu facilitates those nitya-siddhas who use their free will in Goloka or Vaikuntha to choose to enter His impermanant creation. Like darkness can only exist when light is absent, the nitya-baddha consciousness only exists when one chooses to turn away from their nitya-siddha bodily identity. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22 Unless one enters the mahat-tattva as a pure devotee or is playing a part within <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes, one can only otherwise enter the dark mahat-tattva cloud as their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that becomes trapped in a world of forgetfulness divided into past, present and future. In this way the nitya-baddha conscious characteristic of the jivatma or soul (nitya-siddha) is encaged in perishable ethereal and biological bodies which are ornaments or vessels that are non different from the mahat-tattva or material creation. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region> </B>

Srila Prabhupadas teachings are always fresh and new and can never be out dated QUESTION Does the nitya-baddha consciousness come from tatastha'? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> ANSWER ' When the nitya-siddha chooses to miss use their free will in Goloka or Vaikuntha, they enter the mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body but as a secondary dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha), they then become deluded over billions of life times by the impermanance of the mahat-tattva, then seek out impersonal liberation and find temporary refuge in tatastha. . <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada clearly states “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972 <o:p></o:p> No, I do not agree with your interpretation of Shastra, our nitya baddha consciousness may appear to come from tatastha which I believe your quote is referring too, but originally we are all nitya-siddha and in a state of perpetual servitude to Krishna beyond time and space. In other words our Svarupa body is eternal even if we are dreaming in the maha-tattva or tatastha. Also being in tatastha is NOT spiritual in the sense of devotional mellows as Srila Prabhupada has explained. <o:p></o:p> Also the meaning of the sanskrit word Svarupa is explained by Srila Prabhupada - "Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad Gita as it is 4.6 <o:p></o:p> The true facts of Spiritual life and the identity, personality, individuality of all marginal living entities, is their full Svarupa, expression of Vigraha (bodily form) eternal loving selfless devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna, the cause of all causes. Our full spiritual identity does not originate from tatastha only our secondary nitya-baddha consciousness can enter the mahat-tattva and then the tatastha condition of inactive or dormant conaciousness. We (our full constitutional nitya-siddha body) certainly do not originate from Tatastha, no jiva soul (marginal living entity) originates from such an impersonal foundation, that is not possible because perpetually we are eternal bodily servants of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “This love is already there within the heart of everyone (nitya-siddha krishna-prema). http://caitanyacaritamrta. com/madhya/22/... <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Dormant love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> exists in everyone's heart, and it simply has to be awakened by the regulative process of devotional service. One has to learn to use a typewriter by following the regulative principles of the typing book. One has to place his fingers on the keys in such a way and practice, but when one becomes adept, he can type swiftly and correctly without even looking at the keys. Similarly, one has to follow the rules and regulations of devotional service as they are set down by the spiritual master; then one can come to the point of spontaneous loving service”. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> -- and in the association of genuine devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107): <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “"Pure love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. http://caitanyacaritamrta. com/madhya/22/... <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - " Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is the best." HANSADUTTA: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some-- :Srila Prabhupada - " No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Srila Prabhupada - " Even the trees in Vrindaban, they want to serve <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ananda. Everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, <st1:date Year="1971" Day="10" Month="2">10 February 1971</st1:date>, <st1:City><st1:place>Gorakhpur</st1:place></st1:City> <o:p></o:p> Even though one can enter the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya as a spark of inactive effulgence, this state of temporary dreaming inactive or comatose consciousness is not ones original or perpetual fullness. <o:p></o:p> The fullness of the jiva soul is sat-cit-ananda-VIGRAHA or ones nitya-siddha-avarupa identity that is eternally situated in Goloka or Vaikuntha beyond of mundane concept of divided time that only exists within the mahat-tattva (material creation). <o:p></o:p> Only ones nitya-baddha consciousness can enter the mahat-tattva or tatastha. It is only after much struggle trapped in ethereal and biological vessels, ones nitya-baddha consciousness may find the mistaken illusionary freedom within the impersonal characteristic of marginal consciousness known as the collective (along with other nitya-baddha consciousnesses) impersonal Brahmajyoti or tatastha. Individuality is never lost within the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti nor is the connection to ones original authentic nitya-siddha bodily self ever broken, it is only forgotten. <o:p></o:p> The imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal svarupa Krishna Conscious body, which is ones perpetual nitya-siddha constitutional position. Therefore the ‘perishable’ nitya-baddha secondary conscious state is nothing other than a dreaming phenomenon emanating from ones ‘imperishable’ marginal identity while unconscious to their full constitutional nitya-siddha personality.<o:p> </o:p>

Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE. The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> "This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This extended conscious projection, known as the nitya-baddha consciousness, is then provided ethereal and biological vessels by Maha-Vishnu so one can give their dreams form within His mahat-tattva creation. This enables the inferior non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity to enter His dreaming mahat-tattva creation and seek out their mistaken desires of grandeur.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> All life enters the maha-tattva originally from Goloka or Vaikuntha, no life or jiva souls can originate from the mahat-tattva or Maha-Vishnu, He only facilitates those nitya-siddhas who use their free will in Goloka or Vaikuntha to choose to enter His impermanant creation.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Unless one enters the mahat-tattva as a pure devotee or is playing a part within <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes, one can only otherwise enter the dark mahat-tattva cloud as their secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that beomes trapped in a world of forgetfulness divided into past, present and future. In this way the nitya-baddha consciousness or jiva soul is encaged in perishable ethereal and biological bodies which are ornaments or vessels that are non different from the mahat-tattva or material creation.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p>

The imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal svarupa Krishna Conscious body, which is ones perpetual nitya-siddha constitutional position. Therefore the ‘perishable’ nitya-baddha secondary conscious state is nothing other than a dreaming phenomenon emanating from ones ‘imperishable’ marginal identity while unconscious to their full constitutional nitya-siddha personality.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comLetter to Aniruddha, dated </B><st1:date Year=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned" Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Year="1968" Day="14" Month="11">November 14, 1968</st1:date>,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "You have got original relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. Chaitanya-charitamrita. That is a... Just like you are son of some gentleman. That is a fact. It is not that the son becomes father or father becomes son. No. The son is son; the father is father. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – "Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under--...That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – 'So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p>

Also, even though one can enter the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya as a spark of inactive effulgence, this state of temporary dreaming inactive or comatose consciousness is not ones original or perpetual fullness. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The fullness of the jiva soul is sat-cit-ananda-VIGRAHA or ones nitya-siddha-svarupa bodily identity that is eternally situated in Goloka or Vaikuntha beyond of mundane concept of divided time that only exists within the mahat-tattva (material creation).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Only ones nitya-baddha consciousness can enter the mahat-tattva. It is only after much struggle trapped in ethereal and biological vessels, ones nitya-baddha consciousness may find the mistaken illusionary freedom within the impersonal characteristic of ones marginal consciousness known as the collective (along with other nitya-baddha consciousnesses) impersonal Brahmajyoti or tatastha. Individuality is never lost within the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti nor is the connection to ones original authentic nitya-siddha bodily self ever broken, it is only forgotten.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p>

Jayapataka Swami - "The Caitanya-caritamrta describes that pure love of Godhead can never be obtained externally, but it is internally present within us. It is simply covered over. By clearing the contamination covering the heart that love of God will arise. But how do you cleanse the heart? By sravanadi-by hearing and chanting ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com <o:p></o:p> So everyone is already a member of this movement. Everyone is already internally related to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. It is only a question of purifying the mind of all materialistic contamination. Then, freed from all materialistic misconception, we can realize <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> as our eternal master and shelter". From the book "Vaishnava Khe? by Jayapataka Swami<o:p></o:p>