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Sarva gattah

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  1. Your humility Prabhu touches my heart and makes me realize my fanaticism too. You know, it is even more rare to have a human birth than associating with devotees – just to be on this forum associating with devotees of Krishna and other seekers of truth is so, so rare that we just take it for granted. As the saying goes, we do not know or realize what we have got until we loose it. The process of death can come at anytime and frankly it scares the hell out of me. I also apologize for the fanaticism I have posted on this sit.
  2. Actually devotees used to swim there, some still do however most of the Prabhupada disciples I know, me included, stopped swimming there in 1978
  3. Harikesha prabhu - "The material world is a marvellous place, because here the Lord has created the grand illusion that we can become God and enjoy the creation independently of Him. Krishna has created this illusion out of love for us, the fallen souls. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is not in our power to create such a facility, which can be likened to a playground created by the father for the sake of his small children. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Only Krishna can create such a facility, and He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy. The only problem is that this so-called enjoyment is illusory and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and full of misery.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of misery? The answer is simple: Because He does not want us to stay here. He wants us to find out that we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore He orders the material energy to push the conditioned souls toward frustration, so that they will someday again turn toward the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul of all beings, and surrender unto Him. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again awaken them to their real position. He also presents the Vedic literature to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> He is so concerned for the living entities that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned souls back to His eternal abode. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One may also ask, If I had full knowledge in my spiritual position—for we say that the soul is eternally full of knowledge and bliss—why did I come to the material world, knowing that it is a place of suffering? The answer is again simple. One is full of knowledge in the same way that a small glass is full of water. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When the glass is filled with water, we say that it is full. However, no sane person would accept that all the water in the world is in that glass. Only a small portion of the water is in the glass. Since we are quantitatively different from the Lord, we can conclude that our quantity of bliss and knowledge is much smaller than that of the Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, since we are smaller receptacles of knowledge, we can easily be full of knowledge according to our smaller capacity. This does not mean that we possess all knowledge. It means that we possess only a small portion of knowledge—enough to fulfil all our needs in relationship with Krishna. Therefore the living entity, covered by envy, cannot recognize that he will suffer in the material world, just as a lusty person does not consider the results of his actions as he rushes forward to satisfy his lusty desires. Covered by lust, the living entity forgets his original knowledge and enters into the material domain to try to satisfy his desires" ( I found this very inspiring) Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> Some foolish scholars, sanyasis and gurus also say Srila Prabhupada’s teachings are very autocratic and dictatorial that denies one the right to investigate for themselves ‘the origin of the jiva-soul’. There sometimes arrogant determination on this point is revealed by their attempts to scare you into submission by breaking your spirit and cleverly making you believe non-one can help you understand or guide you except them. To achieve this witty attempt to make you submissive, they constantly chip away at your spirit, moulding you into what they want you to be, until your self-esteem is broken just like a horse is broken in and forced to be submissive and just obey without ‘thinking’. This dangerous ‘cult’ mentality is just a further episode of the juvenile pioneering immaturity of the modern revival of the many Vaishnava societies and not to be taken seriously. On many other occasions Prabhupada told us we should inquire and understand what our origin’s are. The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha s’akti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s’akti (jiva tattva) IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy (tatastha s’akti) , jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna's Goloka), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand
  4. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same. This can be seen from different views, thr baddha-jiva in the material world is a real but inferior representation of the nitya-siddha The nitya baddha appears to move around however, its source is its nitya siddha origins in Vaikuntha that is permanantly there due to the eternal present time factor. It may appear contradictory but it isn;t, the material body does leave the embodied (ethereal vessel) baddha-jiva-soul and the embodied baddha-jiva-soul leaves the material body From the material world point of view the embodied soul leave our variety material bodies On the absolute level we are always in Vaikuntha even if we think or dream we are in the mahat-tattva Depends on thinking of Krishna but believe me, when the body is breaking up so many thoughts go through your mind, I realized that for me I'm very fallen and sinful and even though I realized that when this material body breaks down and leaves the soul, or as you have said, when I leave this broken body, for me, the mundane dream will continue - but I SEE it as another chance to somehow. someway remember Prabhupada and Krishna - if we can do that, then it will appear to us that the material experience or dream really never happened because we have gone back home, back to Godhead
  5. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same. This can be seen from different views, thr baddha-jiva in the material world is a real but inferior representation of the nitya-siddha The nitya baddha appears to move around however, its source is its nitya siddha origins in Vaikuntha that is permanantly there due to the eternal present time factor. It may appear contradictory but it isn;t, tha material body does leave the embodied (ethereal vessel) baddha-jiva-soul and the embodied baddha-jiva-soul leaves the material body From the material world point of view we leave our material bodies On the absolute level we are always in Vaikuntha even if we think or dream we are in the mahat-tattva
  6. The material body leaves the embodied soul like the nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state is projected from ones authentic nitya-siddha svarupa body and comes to the material world TEXT 24 acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam akledyo 'sosya eva ca nityah sarva-gatah sthanur acalo 'yam sanatanah SYNONYMS acchedyah—unbreakable; ayam—this soul; adahyah—cannot be burned; ayam—this soul; akledyah—insoluble; asosyah—cannot be dried; eva—certainly; ca—and; nityah—everlasting; sarva-gatah—all-pervading; sthanuh—unchangeable; acalah—immovable; ayam—this soul; sanatanah—eternally the same. TRANSLATION This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same. PURPORT All these qualifications of the atomic soul definitely prove that the individual soul is eternally the atomic particle of the spirit whole, and he remains the same atom eternally, without change. The theory of monism is very difficult to apply in this case, because the individual soul is never expected to become one homogeneously. After liberation from material contamination, the atomic soul may prefer to remain as a spiritual spark in the effulgent rays of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but the intelligent souls enter into the spiritual planets to associate with the Personality of Godhead. The word sarva-gatah (all-pervading) is significant because there is no doubt that living entities are all over God's creation. They live on the land, in the water, in the air, within the earth and even within fire. The belief that they are sterilized in fire is not acceptable, because it is clearly stated here that the soul cannot be burned by fire. Therefore, there is no doubt that there are living entities also in the sun planet with suitable bodies to live there. If the sun globe is uninhabited, then the word sarva-gatah--living everywhere--becomes meaningless. TRANSLATION text 25 It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable, immutable, and unchangeable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body. PURPORT As described previously, the magnitude of the soul is so small for our material calculation that he cannot be seen even by the most powerful microscope; therefore, he is invisible. As far as the soul's existence is concerned, no one can establish his existence experimentally beyond the proof of sruti, or Vedic wisdom. We have to accept this truth, because there is no other source of understanding the existence of the soul, although it is a fact by perception. There are many things we have to accept solely on grounds of superior authority. No one can deny the existence of his father, based upon the authority of his mother. There is no other source of understanding the identity of the father except by the authority of the mother. Similarly, there is no other source of understanding the soul except by studying the Vedas. In other words, the soul is inconceivable by human experimental knowledge. The soul is consciousness and conscious--that also is the statement of the Vedas, and we have to accept that. Unlike the bodily changes, there is no change in the soul. As eternally unchangeable, the soul remains atomic in comparison to the infinite Supreme Soul. The Supreme Soul is infinite, and the atomic soul is infinitesimal. Therefore, the infinitesimal soul, being unchangeable, can never become equal to the infinite soul, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This concept is repeated in the Vedas in different ways just to confirm the stability of the conception of the soul. Repetition of something is necessary in order that we understand the matter thoroughly, without error.
  7. The body leaves the soul, vacates due to its decay and ill health So why do we say ‘oh, he or she has left their body?’ What really happens is the embodied soul encaged in an ethereal vessel or body is actually experiencing the biological body breaking down and ceasing to work, in other words. The material body leaves the soul. The soul does not move at all its immovable, that’s how I saw it. On Saturday I had a heart attack and had no heart beat for five minutes Just a realization Hare Krsna.
  8. Some silly so called devotees like the nonsense ENVIOUS 'beggar' ( I do enjoy the challenge, the WORLD is pretty boring without ‘arguing the point’ with beggar)(ALSO TO SCARED TO REVEAL HIS REAL NAME) SAY that it is too difficult to understand how we originally fell down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed. Read this over and over, try and understand that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is Srila Prabhupada's response.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some foolish scholars, sanyasis and gurus also say Srila Prabhupada’s teachings are very autocratic and dictatorial that denies one the right to investigate for themselves ‘the origin of the jiva-soul’. There sometimes arrogant determination on this point is revealed by their attempts to scare you into submission by breaking your spirit and cleverly making you believe non-one can help you understand or guide you except them. To achieve this witty attempt to make you submissive, they constantly chip away at your spirit, moulding you into what they want you to be, until your self-esteem is broken just like a horse is broken in and forced to be submissive and just obey without ‘thinking’. This dangerous ‘cult’ mentality is just a further episode of the juvenile pioneering immaturity of the modern revival of the Vaishnava societies and not to be taken seriously. On many other occasions Prabhupada told us we should inquire and understand what our origin’s are – this book is doing exactly that.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Other than this issue on the ‘origin of the jiva’ however, I do appreciate, respect and are often moved by devotees like Harikesa’s prabhu’s preaching as the introduction to this Book reveals<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) once in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As previously explained, some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally fell down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here again is Srila Prabhupada's response to those who believe it is too difficult to understand we ALL came down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti<o:p></o:p> ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real but temporary, so factually we do fall down, we do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the awareness of Goloka and our svarupa body is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age disease and death – even that’s experienced as real, even though temporary. There is a fine line between reality and illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha s’akti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s’akti (jiva tattva) IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy (tatastha s’akti) , jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.
  9. Some devotees once said in Mayapur that it is too difficult to understand how we originally fell down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed. Read this over and over, try and understand that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is Srila Prabhupada's response.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some foolish scholars, sanyasis and gurus also say Srila Prabhupada’s teachings are very autocratic and dictatorial that denies one the right to investigate for themselves ‘the origin of the jiva-soul’. There sometimes arrogant determination on this point is revealed by their attempts to scare you into submission by breaking your spirit and cleverly making you believe non-one can help you understand or guide you except them. To achieve this witty attempt to make you submissive, they constantly chip away at your spirit, moulding you into what they want you to be, until your self-esteem is broken just like a horse is broken in and forced to be submissive and just obey without ‘thinking’. This dangerous ‘cult’ mentality is just a further episode of the juvenile pioneering immaturity of the modern revival of the Vaishnava societies and not to be taken seriously. On many other occasions Prabhupada told us we should inquire and understand what our origin’s are – this book is doing exactly that.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Other than this issue on the ‘origin of the jiva’ however, I do appreciate, respect and are often moved by devotees like Harikesa’s prabhu’s preaching as the introduction to this Book reveals<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) once in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As previously explained, some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally fell down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here again is Srila Prabhupada's response to those who believe it is too difficult to understand we ALL came down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti<o:p></o:p> ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real but temporary, so factually we do fall down, we do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the awareness of Goloka and our svarupa body is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age disease and death – even that’s experienced as real, even though temporary. There is a fine line between reality and illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha s’akti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s’akti (jiva tattva) IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy (tatastha s’akti) , jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.
  10. Introduction by unknown author that first appeared on the World Wide Web of the North European BBT in the mid 1990s<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One may rightly ask,” If I am originally a pure servant of God, then why did I come to the material world in the first place? If there is no ignorance in the spiritual world, then why did I leave that wonderful place and come here, where I am suffering repeated births and deaths?” This is a good question, and one that Srila Prabhupada has elaborately explained.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Every living being, either in the material or spiritual world, has free will. Because we are minute parts of the Supreme, we have minute quantities of His qualities. One of Krishna’s qualities is independent free will. He does whatever He likes, whenever He likes, and it is always perfect. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> He is never bound by the reactions of His decisions, because He is transcendental to the material nature. Because we do not possess the same quantity of free will as Krishna, we can sometimes do what we like and sometimes not. Further, whenever we act, we have to suffer or enjoy the reactions of that decision.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Every living being in the spiritual world loves Krishna. This is the nature of the spiritual world. However, that love is not forced. For example, if I were to hold a gun to your head and say,” Love me,” you would naturally say,” Oh, yes, I love you.” But that would have no meaning. You cannot force anyone to love another person, for love comes from within naturally when the proper conditions arise. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, Krishna does not force the living entities to love Him, for that would not be real love and it would not be satisfying to the Supreme Lord, who knows everything that is going on in the hearts of the living entities. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Krishna is satisfied only by pure, natural and spontaneous love, without any traces of self-motivated desire. Therefore Krishna endows each and every living entity with free will. With this free will, one can love Krishna or one cannot love Krishna. The choice is entirely up to the living entity. Those living beings that love Krishna are situated in the spiritual world, whereas those living beings that don’t love Krishna are situated in the material world.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Those who don’t love Krishna, or who have become envious of the Lord’s position as the Supreme Enjoyer, cannot remain in the spiritual world for a moment. If it so happens that a living entity becomes envious of the Lord for some reason, then he immediately falls from the spiritual world, for no envy of the Lord exists in the spiritual world. Remember, the choice to love Krishna or not exists in each of us eternally. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Envy comes as the opposite of love, for it is created from hatred. Hatred and love are very closely related, and each of us has experience of how we can become immediately envious of others, even if our intelligence has not yet accepted that emotion. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, when the living entity feels enviousness for the Lord, he immediately turns into a competitor of the Lord and desires to enjoy as the Lord enjoys.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Such desires cannot remain in the spiritual world, because everyone there is considering themselves as enjoyed by the Lord; they never want to become the enjoyers themselves. Because this desire to become the competitor of the Lord as the enjoyer is spiritual (as all desires in the spiritual world come from the spiritual platform, since all the living entities there are completely spiritual), it must be immediately satisfied. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Every desire in the spiritual world is immediately satisfied, because that is the nature of the spiritual world. But since the desire to be the Lord oneself is not possible to satisfy in the spiritual world, as Krishna is the enjoyer and there cannot be any competitor there, one comes to the material world in order to attempt to fulfil that desire.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The material world is a marvellous place, because here the Lord has created the grand illusion that we can become God and enjoy the creation independently of Him. Krishna has created this illusion out of love for us, the fallen souls. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is not in our power to create such a facility, which can be likened to a playground created by the father for the sake of his small children. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Only Krishna can create such a facility, and He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy. The only problem is that this so-called enjoyment is illusory and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and full of misery.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of misery? The answer is simple: Because He does not want us to stay here. He wants us to find out that we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore He orders the material energy to push the conditioned souls toward frustration, so that they will someday again turn toward the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul of all beings, and surrender unto Him. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again awaken them to their real position. He also presents the Vedic literature to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> He is so concerned for the living entities that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned souls back to His eternal abode. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One may also ask, If I had full knowledge in my spiritual position—for we say that the soul is eternally full of knowledge and bliss—why did I come to the material world, knowing that it is a place of suffering? The answer is again simple. One is full of knowledge in the same way that a small glass is full of water. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When the glass is filled with water, we say that it is full. However, no sane person would accept that all the water in the world is in that glass. Only a small portion of the water is in the glass. Since we are quantitatively different from the Lord, we can conclude that our quantity of bliss and knowledge is much smaller than that of the Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, since we are smaller receptacles of knowledge, we can easily be full of knowledge according to our smaller capacity. This does not mean that we possess all knowledge. It means that we possess only a small portion of knowledge—enough to fulfil all our needs in relationship with Krishna. Therefore the living entity, covered by envy, cannot recognize that he will suffer in the material world, just as a lusty person does not consider the results of his actions as he rushes forward to satisfy his lusty desires. Covered by lust, the living entity forgets his original knowledge and enters into the material domain to try to satisfy his desires. END OF INTRODUCTION BY unknown aurthor prabhu <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> COMMENT – The conclusion by some devotees of this issue is that we should just accept Prabhupada’s Crow and Tal Fruit Logic letter he sent to us Australian devotees in 1972, of whom I was one of them, as final and no one should have the ‘audacity’ to disobey Prabhupada and discuss this is issue. There are other letters and lectures where Prabhupada encouraged devotees to ‘try and understand where our origins are from’ <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Devotees interested in apparent logical contradictions surrounding the "fall of the jiva" read the following paper on the topic, which Srila Prabhupada had sent to devotees in Australia in 1972 to resolve controversies that arose among them about this topic, however, keep in mind that Prabhupada did discuss this issue in letters and lectures especially in Mayapur in 1976 where he stated some devotees haven’t got the mental capacity to understand the ‘origin of the soul’, Prabhupada on that occasion said ‘they don’t want to understand!! The following letter from Srila Prabhupada however, more or less told the devotees to let the issue be, the following letter came as an attachment to a letter from Srila Prabhupada to Madhudvisa dasa dated June 6, 1972.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic<o:p></o:p> Ø "We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, emerging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø So even Lord Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Because he falls down from Brahmasayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that before that even he was with Krsna. So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has become diseased, better to spend time curing the disease.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down, Some panditas, big big learned scholars saw this and discussed: the fruit fell due to the crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit fell simultaneously with the crow landing and frightened the crow so he flew away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow landing broke it from the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such discussions? <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø So whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness and go there, never mind what is your origin.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila--both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead. The real position is servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Directly or indirectly, always we are serving Krsna's lila. Even in dream. Just like we cannot go out of the sun when it is daytime, so where is the chance of going out of Krsna lila? The cloud may be there, it may become very gray and dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the daytime. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Because I am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even though it may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we forget Him, or He sends His representative.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna. Cause and effect are both Krsna. Just like cotton becomes thread and thread becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything is Krsna in the ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krsna's lila. But differences we see under different conditions. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krsna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Material existence is impersonal because my real personality is covered. But we should think that because I am now covered by this clay, I am diseased, and we should think that I must get to business to get myself uncovered, not wonder how I got this way. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Ø Now the fruit is there, take it and enjoy, that is your first business. God is not bound by cause. He can change, He is the Cause of all Causes. Now don't waste your time with this "Kaka taliya nyaya," crows and tal-fruit logic.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Now it is very important to realize on many other occasions Prabhupada told us we should inquire and understand what our origin’s are<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Those people who narrow mindly see only this one instruction on this topic are not seeing the full picture and are entitled to their opinions on the other hand, Prabhupada also gave other instructions we SHOULD try and understand and at many times said that we should try to comprehend <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
  11. Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti<o:p></o:p> ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) <o:p></o:p> Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976 Questions to Srila Prabhupada of how we fell down from Goloka, (not as our nitya-siddha body) but as our dreaming secondary non Krishna Conscious nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “So as eternal servitors of Krishna—our constitutional position—we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall”. Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real but temporary, so factually we do fall down, we do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the awareness of Goloka and our svarupa body is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age disease and death – even that’s experienced as real, even though temporary. There is a fine line between reality and illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because they (jiva tattva) are between the internal and external potencies, the eternally transcendental living entities are called the marginal potency of the Lord. (Bhäg. 2.5.19,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Factually, the living entities are not meant to be so conditioned by material energy, but due to their being affected by the false sense of lording it over the material energy, they come under the influence of such potency and thus become conditioned by the three modes of material nature. (Bhäg. 2.5.19, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This external energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entity’s eternally existing with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is eternally ignorant.” (Bhäg. 2.5.19, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Similarly, there was no necessity to create this material world for the sufferings of the conditioned souls, but at the same time there are certain living entities, known as nitya-baddha, who are eternally conditioned. We say that they have been conditioned from time immemorial because no one can trace out when the living entity, the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, became rebellious against the supremacy of the Lord. (Which means originally the nitya baddhas were all nitya siddha devotees) (Bhäg. 3.26.5, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “It is a fact that there are two classes of men... Without tracing out the beginning of the existence of these two classes, we can take it for granted that some of the living entities revolted against the laws of the Lord. Such entities are called conditioned souls (nitya-baddhas)... Covered by the material body, the spiritual identity (nitya-siddha) is lost, and therefore the word mumuhe is used here, indicating that they have forgotten their own spiritual identity (nitya-siddha).” (Bhäg. 3.26.5, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “It is clear that a particular body is given to the living entity for a particular type of activity. This process is going on perpetually, from a time which it is impossible to trace out. (Bhäg. 3.31.44, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Vaishava poets say, therefore, anädi karama-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahmä’s birth to the next millennium.” (Bhäg. 3.31.44, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history. Because living entity, by nature, he is not conditioned NOT nitya-baddha). But actually we see that we are conditioned, and there is no possibility to trace out the history. (Cc. lecture, January 9, 1967, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Many, many Brahmä’s life. Not only one Brahmä’s. There are so many Brahmäs changed, and we are conditioned. So therefore we are called eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha).” (Cc. lecture, January 9, 1967, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “So some way or other, originally, we are all Krishna conscious, pure, svaccha. Svacchatvam avikäritvam. Now, being transformed or agitated somehow or other... Anädi-karama-phale, padi’ bhavärëava-jale. We cannot ascertain when this transformation took place... (Bhäg. lecture, January 1, 1975, Bombay<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “How we fell, you can trace out the history, but it is very difficult because anädi karama phale, nobody can ascertain. Just like when a man is diseased, he goes to doctor... There is no necessity to find out the history how he fell diseased. (Bhäg. lecture, January 1, 1975, Bombay<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “There is history (just like the cause of many cancers is unknown). Therefore it is said, anädi karama-phale. Anädi. Anädi means... Ädi means the creation. Creation... before creation, I [become] contaminated [with] this desire, icchä-dveña samutthena.” (Bhäg. lecture, January 1, 1975, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “And there are innumerable spiritual living entities also. And some of them, those who are not fit to live in that spiritual world, they are, I mean to say, sent to this material world”. (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The same idea is expressed in Milton’s Paradise Lost. So we, all conditioned souls, we are practically living in a place after Paradise Lost. We should understand this... (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are spirit soul. We should not have accepted this material body. But when we have accepted, how we accepted, there cannot be any tracing of history. It is not possible. Anädi karama. Anädi karama. (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Nobody can trace out the history, when we, the conditioned soul, accepted this material body.” (Lecture, April 23, 1969, Buffalo, New York)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Your next question, ‘...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...’ You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (or nitya baddhas). Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent.” (Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Established means re-establish. It's (our nitya-siddha body) is already established. That is called svarupa-siddhi. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship is. This relationship is eternal".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "We all have come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago” Lecture August 6, 1973 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
  12. Vishnu has three energies, one of them is meant for manifestation of His eternal Abode, another potency is for creating all human souls who are emanation from His Tatastha-sakti found between the temporal<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> and eternal worlds. By this potency He creates human souls. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The human soul has two different predilections. If he desires to serve God-head he is allowed into the eternal Region. If he desires to lord it over this world he comes down for enjoying in different capacities the products of the Deluding potency. <o:p></o:p> that does not change like this world. These potencies belo This position, which is like a geometrical line, is designated tatastha-sakti, the fountain-head of all human souls. Tatastha-sakti is located between the two potencies of Vishnu one of which maintains this transforming world and the other is the source of the manifestation of the eternal world ng to the Personality of God-head Vishnu <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva dasa – “Tathastha does not refer to a place, it does not possess a locative meaning in the sense of being in a particular spot. Tatastha has an ontological meaning. The jiva is a sakti of the Lord, it exists as neither Cit Sakti nor as Maya Sakti, we exist in between these two categories of saktis, therefore we are called Tatastha. The place where water, as in a river an ocean or lake, where it meets the land, that is called tata”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva dasa – “The Cit Sakti is represented by the water and the Maya Sakti us represented by the land. Since we are neither the Maya Sakti nor the Cit Sakti, neither the water or the land, we are called tatastha, or the in-between the water and the land. The tide can cause us to be submerged in water or the tide can retreat and we can become left on the land. The jiva can be influenced and come under the dominion of the Cit Sakti or of the Maya Sakti. Either was the constitutional position of the jiva is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, on the margin or border between 2 other potencies.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy”. END OF SHIVA’S UNDERSTANDING<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -”The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service”(Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul’s choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada clearly states “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what your relationship with Krishna is automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what his relationship with Krishna is, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM, THINK OR IMAGINE WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky. In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we all originate from Goloka. <o:p></o:p> The dreams of the living entity are real but temporary. Correct reality however is imperishable, permanent, without decay and without past or future. Everything is already there and always has beenIndependent self centred dreams of the living entity in Goloka however, are project instantaneously, such ‘dreams’ or ‘thoughts’ are very real and are not illusion because they go on to really exist in the mahat-tattva, which is the material creation governed by Maha Vishnu. Stop thinking in terms of your dreams in your material body, it's not like that -- Dreams in your head while sleeping are illusions.You are conditioned by mundane education to believe 'dreams' are illusion. The dreams of Maha Vishnu below are different and so are ours from our eternal nitya-siddha body. Fall down is real but only from the concept of time and not consciousness. Dreaming from Goloka however, is not like that; the nitya-baddha jiva state is real and described as 10.000th the size of a tip of hair. Due to the fact that the baddha-jiva is consciousness forgetful of its eternal form, many yogis, philosophers and Vedantists, believe the soul or jiva is formless. They think this way because they have no information of the jiva’s permanent home, Goloka-Vrndavana. Even in the mundane heavenly worlds, ones thoughts, dreams and desires are as real as the reality they live in ...<o:p></o:p> In Goloka however, independent thoughts not of pleasing Krishna, instantaneously puts one in Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva material creation that is depicted in a darker circle above<o:p></o:p> MAHAT-TATTVA MEANS MATERIAL WORLDS AS PAINTNG BELOW REVEALS IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER (TAKING UP 25% OF THE SPIRITUAL SKY OR BRAHMAJYOTI)<o:p></o:p> We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago<o:p></o:p>
  13. How have we fallen to the material world?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We have all attained our present condition of existence in the material creation due to firstly choosing between the Lord’s two energies. We all have our genuine place or full Krishna Conscious potential in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is everlastingly there, yet also always have the choice to remain aware of our perpetual svarupa body and genuine identity in Vaikuntha that is constantly serving Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We therefore can use our God given ‘marginal’ free will to foolishly enter the perishable universe of imagination and fleeting dreams as our mistaken desires and thoughts to achieve absolute power over all I purvey. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, in our forgetful state we forget that all our desires, dreams and thoughts are given the facility to exist only by the mercy of Maha-Vishnu who is the great facilitator of His maha-tattva creation.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy because they ARE the marginal energy and are therefore ETERNALLY called jiva-tatastha. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living beings (jiva-soul or tatastha s’akti) are autonomous expansion of Lord Krishna that has no beginning, no origin, or ending. They can choose to remain Krishna Conscious in their full devotional potential or transcendental body under the loving supervision of the superior energy (Krishna in Goloka or Vishnu in Vaikuntha), or be covered by <o:p></o:p> the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) In both cases the Supreme Lord is the origin and maintainer of the living entities, whether in their perpetual natural ‘svarupa’ Krishna conscious devotional service in Goloka or Vaikuntha, or if they have chosen to miss use their free will to abandon who they really are by entering the transitory illusionary dreams of greatness and chasing such desires within Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming temporary creation (mahat tattva).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal". (See CC Adi 2.96) “The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present. Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time”. Bhaktivinoda Thakura. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The statement above clearly explains how the imperishable higher feature of the jiva-tatastha is ones eternal ’svarupa Krishna Conscious body’ which is ones perpetual constitutional position that is eternal present in Vaikuntha. The permanent characteristic of the jiva tatastha is ones eternal svarupa body which is the perpetual constitutional original position of all marginal living beings.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Consequently the secondary conscious characteristic of the jiva tatastha that becomes covered by the inferior energy or mahat-tattva, is nothing other than a dreaming condition that temporarily exists while the one unconscious of their full constitutional bodily foundation in Goloka. The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have always existed without beginning or end.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains this – <o:p></o:p> “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?” Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.20 - 21 “The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same”. Bhagavad Gita as it is 2.23 - 24 In conclusion, the marginal living entities (tatastha s’akti) nitya-siddha identity is perpetually beyond the mundane decaying effect of time and space in the material creation (mahat-tattva) and is ‘always’ in Goloka. In other words ones eternal svarupa is always in Goloka. Tatastha s’akti refers to the jiva soul’s sovereignty as an individual living being (you and I) and IS ‘our’ perpetual identity, personality, individuality and desires that communicate our own autonomous way of thinking of how to serve and please Krishna in a selfless manner, that remains that way for all eternity. This loving exchange or reciprocation with Krishna and His devotees is the purpose of all marginal living entities and why they have free will. It is simply there so the living entity can express their own splendid loving exchanges of humble devotion service and gratitude to Krishna, in their own unique way. If there is no such choice of expression and free will, then how can there be love?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We therefore eternally exist independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Lord Krishna), where our authentic everlasting genuine bodily self is always serving Krishna, or we can ignore Krishna and who we really are altogether, and take shelter (not as a perpetual svarupa body) within the perishable inferior energy (mahat-tattva material creation) of Maha Vishnu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Originally the living entity is a spiritual being, but when he actually desires to enjoy this material world, he comes down. From this verse we can understand that the living entity first accepts a body that is human in form, but gradually, due to his degraded activities, he falls into lower forms of life into the animal, plant and aquatic forms". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-nine, Text 4<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Having rebelled against the principles of Krsna consciousness, we are cut off from our original position in Goloka as nitya siddha. We have fallen to the material world in our dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "By the gradual process of evolution, the living entity again attains the body of a human being and is given another chance to get out of the process of transmigration. If he again misses his chance in the human form to understand his position, he is again placed in the cycle of birth and death in various types of bodies". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-nine, Text 4<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama phale. Anadi means before the creation. We living entities, we are eternal. Even the creation is annihilated after millions and trillions of years, the living entities, they are not annihilated". Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1973 730806BG.LON<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila PRABHUPADA - "When a living entity falls down to the material world, however, he has to accept a material body, and therefore, in his material embodiment, he cannot be called acyuta. Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty, Text 37<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from his real engagement in the service of the Lord, the living entity gets a material body to suffer or try to enjoy in the miserable material conditions of life. Therefore the fallen living entity is cyuta, whereas the Lord is called acyuta".Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty, Text 37 PURPORT<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "By endeavouring to dominate material nature, the living entity simply struggles hard for existence. Indeed, he struggles so hard to enjoy himself that he cannot even enjoy the material resources. Thus he is sometimes called prakrti, or jiva, for he is situated in the marginal potency”. Canto 4 Chapter Twenty-four, Text 28 <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “When the living entity is covered with the three modes of material nature, he is called jiva-samjnita. There are two kinds of living entities: one is called ksara, and the other is aksara. Ksara refers to those who have fallen down and BECAME conditioned, and aksara refers to those who are not conditioned". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4 Chapter Twenty-four, Text 28<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Originally ALL living entities are aksara<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His svamsa expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 53<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, when the living entity wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world". Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 54<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva dasa from ISKCON – “The jiva is the marginal living entity (tatastha sakti of the Lord), also called the jiva sakti or marginal potency, the jiva doesn’t go there, it is not a place you can go to, it is what he is”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva writes well on the tatastha sakti subject but does not comprehend the ‘dream’ concept of the marginal living entity that Prabhupada talks about. After all Maha Vishnu is laying down in the Causal Ocean dreaming the entire material creation I am surprised Shiva dasa cannot understand that our existence in the material creation is merely the dream of the spirit soul.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva dasa’s understanding of tatastha is very basic and well explained as the following quotes reveal<o:p></o:p> Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains these verses as follows: Sri Sanatana Gosvami asked Sri Srila “Caitanya Mahaprabhu, “Who am I?” In answer, the Lord replied, “You are a pure living entity. You are neither the gross material body nor the subtle body composed of mind and intelligence”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually you are a spirit soul, eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krsna. Therefore you are His eternal servant. You belong to Krsna’s marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You are related with Krsna as one and simultaneously different. Because you are spirit soul, you are one in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but because you are a very minute particle of spirit soul, you are different from the Supreme Soul”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore your position is simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Soul. The examples given are those of the sun itself and the small particles of sunshine and of a blazing fire and the small particles of fire.” Another explanation of these verses can be found in Adi-lila, Chapter Two, verse 96.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In his Paramatma Sandarbha Jiva Goswami writes:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way it has been explained that although the purusa- avatara is a single person, He nevertheless expands in many different forms. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has two kinds of expansions: 1. svamsa (personal expansions), and 2. vibhinnamsa (separated expansions). The Lord’s separated expansions are the individual spirit souls, who are all the Lord’s marginal potency (tatastha-sakti). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Lord’s personal expansions are His many incarnations, such as His guna-avatars and lila-avataras. The Lord’s lila-avataras and other incarnations will be described later in the Sri Krsna-sandarbha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Thus the Lord’s marginal [tatasthah] potencies, who are called the individual spirit souls are limitless in number. Still, they may be divided into two groups: 1. the souls who, from time immemorial, are favorable to the Supreme Lord, and 2. the rebellious souls who, from time immemorial, are averse to the Supreme Lord. This is because one group is aware of the Lord’s glories and the other group is not aware of them”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (NOTE – Shiva does not explain that even all the conditioned marginal living entities originally came from Goloka long, long, long, long, long ago before they were considered eternally conditioned or nitya- baddha, Even the merging into the body of Maha Vishnu or entering the impersonal Brahmajyoti in ONLY achieved via the inferior nitya-baddha consciousness.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shiva dasa continues – “The first group consists of Garuda and the other eternal associates of the Lord, These devotees take shelter of the Lord’s internal potency and enjoy pastimes with Him. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They reside in the spiritual world, which will be described in the Bhagavat- sandarbha (anuccheda 78) where the following words of Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda are quoted:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Countless blissful spiritual planets are in the spiritual sky, which is three fourths of the entire creation.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Thus, although the nature of the individual souls is on the borderline of the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the individual souls do not enter that nature. Thus they remain different from the Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way we have described the Lord’s marginal potency. we have already described the Lord’s internal potency.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is from Srila Prabhupada’s “Teachings of Lord Caitanya”<o:p></o:p> The supreme knowledge of Krsna is exhibited in three different energies - internal, marginal and external. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy (tatastha sakti), He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.<o:p></o:p> This is from “Sri Caitanya’s Teachings” by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura<o:p></o:p>
  14. The Marginal living entity<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> It is very important to understand that there is only one characteristic of the jiva tattva or marginal living entity (tatastha-sakti) that is expressed as either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha. And both even appear to simultaneously exist but the fact is they do not, factually when one exists the other doesn’t. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Fall down is very real but only from the concept of time (eternal presents) and NOT consciousness. Conscious ‘awareness’ of the marginal living entities situation is always one, either nitya-siddha or nitya baddha – never both simultaneously. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It may appear to be simultaneous but that’s because the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka is existing simultaneously with the past, present and future of the material creation (mahat-tattva). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It’s nothing to do with consciousness, it is to do with time that gives the impression we are in Goloka eternally even if our ‘awareness’ of reality is in the mahat-tattva – can you understand what I am trying to communicate?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In other words, due to the concept of Goloka Lila time and mahat-tattva mundane time it appears there is a division of consciousness because it is said ones svarupa body is perpetually in Goloka even if one is experiencing existence in the mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Actually this is not the case because it only appears there is a division of consciousness i.e. the eternal present devoid of past and future = nitya siddha, the past, present and future = nitya baddha. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The fact is, either the jiva tattva is in Goloka’s eternal present in full awareness (as nitya-siddha) or is in the mahat-tattva of past, present and future a (as nitya-baddha) as far is awareness is concerned, it is not possible to be in these two places at once. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is where the dream analogy has its flaw because technically it is NOT a dream, it is real. What is happening is one falls out of sync with the eternal present of Vaikuntha. No one therefore is ‘dreaming’ they are in the mahat-tattva because they ARE factually in the mahat-tattva – therefore it is no dream as we know it, it is very real!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The baddha-jiva soul is real and is 10,000<SUP>th</SUP> the size of a tip of hair. Being in the mahat-tattva is not a dream as we foolishly interpret the word ‘dream’ based on our biological bodily experience. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The dreams of Maha-Vishnu and the dreams of the jiva soul are real, just temporary. . This is what ‘the dream’ means from the Srimad Bhagavatams point of view and has nothing to do with the mundane English dictionary meaning of the word dream.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In book one it was explained how the living entity leaves Goloka in a projected dream state however technically that is not exactly correct because there is NEVER a division of consciousness because it is all to do with the division of time. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One can never be nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha simultaneously, it is ether one or the other Things have been explained to make people read into my writing that there are two characteristics of the jiva, two separate identities, no, this idea is wrong. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Whether one is consciously acting or subconsciously acting, it is still the same person, the same consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Where the understanding needs to be concentrated is with the all important division of time and not consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is that division of time “the eternal present” and the ‘past, present and future” that gives the idea that the nitya siddha body and the nitya baddha consciousness exist simultaneously. As far as the important understanding of where the marginal living entity is at, they certainly on the individual ‘awareness’ level do not and never have existed simultaneously. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The fact is, regardless of the eternal presents of Goloka, one is either in Goloka or the material world, if they are in the material world then even though it is said their svarupa body is eternally in Goloka, the fact is they are not aware of that and are definitely and certainly NOT in Goloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is important to realize.The fact is one is really only in Goloka when they are aware they are in Goloka and the fact is most of us are presently NOT in Goloka. So therefore, saying that our svarupa body is perpetually in Goloka can be a cope out because the fact is we are NOT in Goloka to realize that, for all intense purposes we are not in Goloka, we have fallen to the material world, not as some projection as I described earlier in my book, no, it’s not like that, it’s more of a relocation than a projection.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Due to free will and choice, we actually fall to the material world due to being out of sync with the eternal presents of Goloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Crow-and-Fruit Philosophy is not the last word by Prabhupada on other occasions told us to try and understand, the exact opposite to those instructions he gave us in Australia in 1972. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Obviously he spoke according to the reception-ability of his audience. His inner circle of devotees he definitely revealed more to than even what is in his books; I experienced this myself in Sydney when he spoke intimately about the past times of Radha and Krishna and what he had personally told me. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada told me once in the Sydney Temple room in early 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some devotees once said in Mayapur in 1976 that it is too difficult to understand how we originally feel down from Goloka or Vaikuntha and the subject is best not discussed as Prabhupada had previously told his Australian devotees in 1972 however on this occasion he says the opposite and tells the devotees they should try to understand.. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We have to realize that being marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to understand. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire. Here is Srila Prabhupada's response.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”. Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”. Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Acyutananda - “He can return”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Srila Prabhupada: Yes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles Srila Prabhupada - "originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world" Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) <o:p></o:p> Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976 Questions to Srila Prabhupada of how we fell down from Goloka, (not as our nitya-siddha body) as our dreaming nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness Srila Prabhupada - “So as eternal servitors of Krishna—our constitutional position—we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall”. Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM WE LEAVE. <o:p></o:p> The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83. Srila Prabhupada - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These are the words of Lord Caitanya: The jiva's constitutional or inherent position is that of servant of Krsna because he is tatastha sakti, the marginal potency, a manifestation one with and different from Krsna.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We (the marginal living entities) are not a region or place in creation, the marginal plane or jiva s'skti IS/ARE the individual independent living beings like you and I, the marginal energy, jiva-soul or tatastha-s’akti, therefore WE ARE NOT in position or area in creation as Akruranatha prabhu and Shiva also correctly explained to us.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entities are simply the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as independent thinking entities or beings that can choose to serving the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual body, or be covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior or inferior energy to express their independent desires.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Tatastha s’akti then refers to the jiva souls sovereignty as a living being (you and I) who have ‘our’ identity, personality, individuality and desires or our own way of thinking eternally. We therefore eternally exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather under the influence of free will that can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable super energy (Lord Krishna), or take shelter of the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) This is an important point to understand.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore JIVA TATASTHA refers to us, the living entities who are presently covered by the transitory inferior material energy (ethereal and biological vessels)<o:p></o:p>
  15. The Catholic church are a bunch of morons, in 76 they threatened to kill Prabhupada although out of the kindness of my heart I did put a garland of Radharanis around the neck of the meat head pope in 1986 and he kissed my hand as he did so, I put some jappa beads in his hand and said chant hare Krishna<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
  16. Yes, it is you writings and I apolodize to you and your wonderful realizations and will make shaw I quote you as I quote Prabhupada <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
  17. Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Srila Prabhupada – ‘originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha’. Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Our original position is eternal, we are all eternally nitya-siddha which IS our original and eternal position, presently covered while we dream away in the material creation.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These different aspects of the Brahmajyoti can be achieved or experienced by free will and choice however, ONLY Krsna's abode and the Vaikunthas, that make up 75% of the Brahmajyoti, Spiritual Sky or creation, are without end and situated in the personal active 'eternal present' of Krsna's perpetual pastimes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The other 25% of the Brahmajyoti is made up of those who have chosen to forgotten their nitya -siddha body in the 'eternal present' and have entered that part of creation known as the perishable mahat-tattva and later on may enter the temporary impersonal Brahman, both in a 'dream consciousness' known as the baddha-jiva (NITYA-BADDHA).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This devotional active original fullness of the Brahmajyoti is eternal personal, which means it is made up of ALL living entities that are perpetually represented there in their perpetual nitya-siddha body serving Krsna<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> For a living entity, who has transmigrated through the lower species to the human biological body, simply means that the living entity had FIRST chosen to ‘consciously (like in a dream), fall down from Krsnaloka, long, long, long ago, from also the eternal body that is their real perpetual ‘self’ (nitya-siddha) whose only activity there is serving Krsna or God. This was achieved by free will and choice; the marginal living entity therefore is able to leave Goloka ‘consciously’ as their secondary lower baddha-jiva consciousness and travel to the heavenly planets within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The baddha-jiva may then travel further to the middle planets, then the hellish planets, and the then to lower species of biological life. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some baddha-jivas may also take shelter in the dormant aspect of their own baddha-jiva consciousness that is collectively, along with other baddha-jivas who have also chosen the dreamless dream state, known as the impersonal aspect of the Brahman effulgence<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The impersonal characteristic of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman IS the nitya-baddha souls in a collective of souls that IS the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p> The brahmajyoti is full of jiva-souls; the word sarva-gatah means life IS the Brahmajyoti and is everywhere. So, what is the Brahmajyoti?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Brahmajyoti or Krsna’s effulgence, IS the entire creation, divided up into three zones of conscious thought, from devotional activity in the Vaikunthas, to conditioned activity in the mahat-tattva, to inactivity in the dormant dreamless state - All are aspects of the Brahmajyoti<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 1.The Vaikunthas and Krsnaloka those are always active in service to Krsna or Vishnu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 2. The mahat-tattva or material creation of Maha-Vishnu that is where the marginal living entity can CHOOSE to go to lead their own way of life without Krsna<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 3. When those who have entered the mahat-tattva become fed up with the temporary frustrating nature of the material world and the vessels or bodies they move around in, they often seek an inactive dormant state of consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They only seek out such an end to their existence because they still have no memory or recollection of their eternal body in Krsnaloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, due to this ignorant state the baddha-jiva is in, they choose to learn through the yogic process, to ‘close their consciousness down’ and stop the generation of thought. (which can be achieved, but is also a temporary dormant 'state of the baddha-jiva's consciousness".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This dormant conscious state of the baddha-jiva is known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti, which means it is the ‘inactive ‘state of consciousness of the souls that make up and IS the Personal Brahmajyoti – hence its reflection is the impersonal aspect of that same Brahmajyoti.
  18. H.H. Jayapataka Maharaj told us how grateful he was for all the devotees for praying for him. This great general of Lord Chaitanya’s army is back. Back from the dead to lead his troops against Maya's temptations and tests. By Abhijit Toley - January 25, 2009 Applause. The kind that bursts out from the hearts of the audience after a moment of stunned silence. The kind that seems to last forever. The kind that no one wants to ever end. The kind that follows a moment that everyone wants to etch into their memories for all time to come. The kind that typically follows an awesome performance that touches the hearts of the audience very deeply. Today, I was part of one such applause. I am writing this while watching His Holiness Jayapataka Swami who is sitting in a wheelchair about twenty-five feet from me. It’s the 22nd annual Pune Yatra, in the bungalow of H. G. Krishna Chandra Prabhu in Pune, India. It’s as if the celestial giants have descended upon earth. What else would you say if you are amidst HH Radhanath Swami, HH Bhakticharu Swami, HH Jayapataka Swami, HH Chandramouli Swami, and HH Bhakti Vishwambhar Madhava Swami? A couple of days ago, on the first evening of this four-day Yatra, HH Radhanath Swami Maharaja indicated at the possibility that perhaps HH Bhakticharu Maharaja might join us all. This news was received very enthusiastically. But when he also told us that perhaps HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja might also join us, the cheers were uproarious. And why not? HH Jayapataka Maharaj is a darling of all the Vaishnavas. Srila Prabhupada declared that he is an eternal associate of Lord Chaitanya. Prabhupada gave him Sanyaas when he was just 21. He took up, and continues to execute, major responsibilities in Srila Prabhupada’s mission, including the Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir and many others. He is pretty much the spiritual master of the whole Navadwip Dham! One can’t think of Sri Mayapur Dham without thinking of Srila Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. His glories are unlimited. Not for nothing did Srila Prabhupada give him the name Jayapataka – the victory flag – signifying the victory of Lord Chaitanya’s Sankirtan Movement. Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Sankirtanam. But recently, by the inconceivable will of the Lord, this glorious and extraordinarily brave soldier of Lord Chaitanya was put into a precarious situation. In the Sri Sri Radha Rasabihari Temple of ISKCON Juhu, Maharaja had a severe stroke of brain hemorrhage. Doctors said he had no chance. And even if he did survive, he would be no better than a vegetable. Devotees all over the world were shocked! The whole Vaishnava community of ISKCON united in their prayers to the Lord to let Maharaja stay longer on this earth and shower upon everyone his matchless association and mercy. Kirtans roared all over the world. HH Radhanath Swami Maharaja dedicated the Karthik Vrindavan Yatra to HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja, where all devotees prayed fervently to the Lord for Jayapataka Swami Maharaja’s recovery. Thus there was hope, but the situation was still critical, and tense. Over the next few weeks, I kept myself updated about Maharaja’s health by visiting www. jpsoffice. com. His condition has been steadily improving. According to the doctors, that’s a miracle. But for Krishna nothing is impossible. And how could it be, because He is the cause of all causes. Just before the Pune Yatra, only once, this thought had struck my mind: How nice will it be to have HH Jayapataka Maharaja with us in the Yatra? Surely, due to these recent events, devotees all over the world remembered the glories of Maharaja and thus got purified. Maharaja is still recuperating, but things look in control now. He traveled for around four hours in an ambulance from Bombay to Pune just to give us his divine association. This is an example of his unlimited mercy. He addressed us briefly yesterday evening. He told us how grateful he was for all the devotees for praying for him. We were all touched. And then again, today while HH Radhanath Maharaja was showering us with the lotus words from his lotus mouth during the Srimad Bhagavatam class, entered the scene HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. As was planned, HH Radhanatha Swami Maharaja stopped his class and handed over the Vyasasana to HH Jayapataka Maharaja. Maharaja’s speech is not completely back yet. So he had a devotee repeat his words, although one could understand quite a bit of what he spoke directly. Just his presence was electrifying. He spoke about his last year’s Bangladesh trip, his various helicopter rides, and also he spoke very fondly about his recent stay at the Bhakti Vedanta Hospital in Bombay. His every word was nectar for all the devotees. He informed us that every month around twenty-five patients become devotees in the Bhakti Vedanta Hospital. And then, out of his natural humility, he said that now that he had also been a patient in that hospital, he might also become a devotee. More than once, my eyes were moistened by his words. He spoke for about an hour. The devotee who had made tens of thousands of devotees was all the while exhibiting his natural humility. Who can fathom the glories and sweetness of a true Vaishnava? But what was it that was touching everyone’s heart? I had not been able to put it in words. That thought was there somewhere in my sub-consciousness, but I had not yet expressed it in words. HH Radhanath Maharaja had hinted at it more than once. This was a historic event, he said. But exactly what was historic? After enthralling the devotees by his humility, love, and humor, even in his far-from-perfect medical condition, he ended with: “It’s good to be back in the preaching field.” That was it! That was the historic event. This great general of Lord Chaitanya’s army was back. Back from the dead. There was no chance for him, but here he was. Inspiring devotees, distributing Krishna Prem. Once again! “It’s good to be back in the preaching field”, he said. Stunned silence. Applause!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
  19. H.H. Jayapataka Maharaj told us how grateful he was for all the devotees for praying for him. This great general of Lord Chaitanya’s army is back. Back from the dead to lead his troops against Maya's temptations and tests. By Abhijit Toley - January 25, 2009 Applause. The kind that bursts out from the hearts of the audience after a moment of stunned silence. The kind that seems to last forever. The kind that no one wants to ever end. The kind that follows a moment that everyone wants to etch into their memories for all time to come. The kind that typically follows an awesome performance that touches the hearts of the audience very deeply. Today, I was part of one such applause. I am writing this while watching His Holiness Jayapataka Swami who is sitting in a wheelchair about twenty-five feet from me. It’s the 22nd annual Pune Yatra, in the bungalow of H. G. Krishna Chandra Prabhu in Pune, India. It’s as if the celestial giants have descended upon earth. What else would you say if you are amidst HH Radhanath Swami, HH Bhakticharu Swami, HH Jayapataka Swami, HH Chandramouli Swami, and HH Bhakti Vishwambhar Madhava Swami? A couple of days ago, on the first evening of this four-day Yatra, HH Radhanath Swami Maharaja indicated at the possibility that perhaps HH Bhakticharu Maharaja might join us all. This news was received very enthusiastically. But when he also told us that perhaps HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja might also join us, the cheers were uproarious. And why not? HH Jayapataka Maharaj is a darling of all the Vaishnavas. Srila Prabhupada declared that he is an eternal associate of Lord Chaitanya. Prabhupada gave him Sanyaas when he was just 21. He took up, and continues to execute, major responsibilities in Srila Prabhupada’s mission, including the Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir and many others. He is pretty much the spiritual master of the whole Navadwip Dham! One can’t think of Sri Mayapur Dham without thinking of Srila Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. His glories are unlimited. Not for nothing did Srila Prabhupada give him the name Jayapataka – the victory flag – signifying the victory of Lord Chaitanya’s Sankirtan Movement. Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Sankirtanam. But recently, by the inconceivable will of the Lord, this glorious and extraordinarily brave soldier of Lord Chaitanya was put into a precarious situation. In the Sri Sri Radha Rasabihari Temple of ISKCON Juhu, Maharaja had a severe stroke of brain hemorrhage. Doctors said he had no chance. And even if he did survive, he would be no better than a vegetable. Devotees all over the world were shocked! The whole Vaishnava community of ISKCON united in their prayers to the Lord to let Maharaja stay longer on this earth and shower upon everyone his matchless association and mercy. Kirtans roared all over the world. HH Radhanath Swami Maharaja dedicated the Karthik Vrindavan Yatra to HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja, where all devotees prayed fervently to the Lord for Jayapataka Swami Maharaja’s recovery. Thus there was hope, but the situation was still critical, and tense. Over the next few weeks, I kept myself updated about Maharaja’s health by visiting www. jpsoffice. com. His condition has been steadily improving. According to the doctors, that’s a miracle. But for Krishna nothing is impossible. And how could it be, because He is the cause of all causes. Just before the Pune Yatra, only once, this thought had struck my mind: How nice will it be to have HH Jayapataka Maharaja with us in the Yatra? Surely, due to these recent events, devotees all over the world remembered the glories of Maharaja and thus got purified. Maharaja is still recuperating, but things look in control now. He traveled for around four hours in an ambulance from Bombay to Pune just to give us his divine association. This is an example of his unlimited mercy. He addressed us briefly yesterday evening. He told us how grateful he was for all the devotees for praying for him. We were all touched. And then again, today while HH Radhanath Maharaja was showering us with the lotus words from his lotus mouth during the Srimad Bhagavatam class, entered the scene HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. As was planned, HH Radhanatha Swami Maharaja stopped his class and handed over the Vyasasana to HH Jayapataka Maharaja. Maharaja’s speech is not completely back yet. So he had a devotee repeat his words, although one could understand quite a bit of what he spoke directly. Just his presence was electrifying. He spoke about his last year’s Bangladesh trip, his various helicopter rides, and also he spoke very fondly about his recent stay at the Bhakti Vedanta Hospital in Bombay. His every word was nectar for all the devotees. He informed us that every month around twenty-five patients become devotees in the Bhakti Vedanta Hospital. And then, out of his natural humility, he said that now that he had also been a patient in that hospital, he might also become a devotee. More than once, my eyes were moistened by his words. He spoke for about an hour. The devotee who had made tens of thousands of devotees was all the while exhibiting his natural humility. Who can fathom the glories and sweetness of a true Vaishnava? But what was it that was touching everyone’s heart? I had not been able to put it in words. That thought was there somewhere in my sub-consciousness, but I had not yet expressed it in words. HH Radhanath Maharaja had hinted at it more than once. This was a historic event, he said. But exactly what was historic? After enthralling the devotees by his humility, love, and humor, even in his far-from-perfect medical condition, he ended with: “It’s good to be back in the preaching field.” That was it! That was the historic event. This great general of Lord Chaitanya’s army was back. Back from the dead. There was no chance for him, but here he was. Inspiring devotees, distributing Krishna Prem. Once again! “It’s good to be back in the preaching field”, he said. Stunned silence. Applause!
  20. Nice and sobering post theist - the fifth Canto gives the source.
  21. How it is possible to understand that in the spiritual world there is no past and future? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> When the life force is withdrawn from vessels in/of the mahat-tattva, the vessels simply dissolve. The souls remains, the material elements remain. Since these vessels do not remain permanent, they are simply an illusion. Thus there is no past, nor is there a future in relation to the jiva because the ‘eternal presents’ is its natural perpetual constitution having originated from Goloka. There is only the continuous presence of the souls who experience the eternal presents in Goloka or experience that ‘eternal present’ divided into past, present and future in the material creation. <o:p></o:p> Question - "How it is possible to understand, that in the spiritual world there is no past and future? For example, if I have drunk a glass of water, it means, that process of drinking has remained in the past! <o:p></o:p> This process cannot be all time in present time?!… Even if this process will occur in the spiritual world, if I have jumped in water or I sit down on a chair, this action has already come to pass, that is remains in the past. How these actions can be all time in present time? Please, explain to me it is in the detailed image!” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hari Sauri prabhu explains - "Understanding time is very difficult however, here are a few observations that may help get a better understanding. <o:p></o:p> Time is the force by which everything in the material world changes. It is the ultimate master of all living beings. It moves everything, and when there is no influence of time, there is no movement, nor variety: SB 3.26.10 <o:p></o:p> The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: The unmanifested eternal combination of the three modes is the cause of the manifest state and is called pradhana. It is called prakrti when in the manifested stage of existence. <o:p></o:p> PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada The Lord points out material nature in its subtle stage, which is called pradhana, and He analyzes this pradhana. <o:p></o:p> The explanation of pradhana and prakrti is that pradhana is the subtle, undifferentiated sum total of all material elements. Although they are undifferentiated, one can understand that the total material elements are contained therein. <o:p></o:p> When the total material elements are manifested by the interaction of the three modes of material nature, the manifestation is called prakrti. … <o:p></o:p> The actual explanation of pradhana, however, is given here: when the cause and effect are not clearly manifested (avyakta), the reaction of the total elements does not take place, and that stage of material nature is called pradhana. <o:p></o:p> Pradhana is not the time element because in the time element there are actions and reactions, creation and annihilation. Nor is it the jiva, or marginal potency of living entities, or designated, conditioned living entities, because the designations of the living entities are not eternal. <o:p></o:p> One adjective used in this connection is nitya, which indicates eternality. Therefore the condition of material nature immediately previous to its manifestation is called pradhana.” <o:p></o:p> “In the Third Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam Lord Kapiladeva teaches that the material nature originally exists in an inert state of equilibrium called pradhana. <o:p></o:p> When Lord Visnu casts His potent glance in the form of kala, or time, material interactions take place, culminating in the variegated creation of the material cosmos. <o:p></o:p> “In this verse it is stated that at the end of universal time the same kala that originally incited the female nature into manifestation again withdraws the cosmos into its original state of inert nonmanifestation. <o:p></o:p> According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, the time potency itself, kala, is then withdrawn, and it merges into the Supreme Soul, who manifests Himself as the original cause of material nature (anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [bs. 5.1]).” [end quote] <o:p></o:p> What we understand as time is really a figment of our imagination in the sense of there being a past, present and future. <o:p></o:p> We tend to ‘measure’ time by observing the changes that it causes to our bodies and the surrounding environment. However, the soul is fixed and immutable and does not change, so for the soul there is no past or future, only the present, or rather his own presence. <o:p></o:p> Material elements also do not change. <o:p></o:p> Different states of energy cannot be either created or destroyed and in their fundamental states they remain the same. <o:p></o:p> Material elements are the energy of the Supreme Lord and are therefore eternal. The only thing that does change are the combinations of material elements into various forms. <o:p></o:p> These combinations are provided so that the individual living beings can fulfill their various desires. <o:p></o:p> It is the presence of a living force within these combinations of matter give them the appearance of life. <o:p></o:p> When the life force is withdrawn, the forms simply dissolve. The souls remain, the material elements remain. Since these forms do not remain permanently, they are simply an illusion. <o:p></o:p> Thus there is no past, nor is there a future. There is only the continuous presence of the souls, and the material elements. <o:p></o:p> Time in the material world is the force that moves the individual soul from one situation to another in search of fulfillment of his desires. <o:p></o:p> Time is the supreme regulator. Time is Krsna. What we call time is simply the influence of Krsna without realization of His person. Srila Prabhupada describes time as the impersonal energy of the Supreme Lord. <o:p></o:p> In the spiritual world, Krsna is continuously present to His parts and parcel living entities. <o:p></o:p> He dominates everything, He is everything. Time, or the sense of being, is therefore simply the sense of Krsna’s personal presence and one’s relationship with Him, and nothing more. <o:p></o:p> Since Krsna is eternal and the soul is eternal, there is no past nor any future but simply the loving exchanges between Krsna and His devotees which are endless in their variety. <o:p></o:p> The forms in the spiritual world are all spiritual. They are eternal, and yet they can change. How they can change was described by Srila Prabhupada in a talk given in Melbourne on May 20, 1975:
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