Sarva gattah

It is stated in the Sri Caitanya Caritamrita, Madhya Lila, Chapter 22 "The Process of Devotional Service, text 107, nitya-siddha krishna-prema 'sadhya' kabhu naya<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada – “"Pure love for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. <font color=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. <FONT color=blue><FONT color=black>http://caitanyacaritamrta.<o:p></o:p> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black><FONT size=4>com/madhya/22/...<FONT color=black><FONT size=3>http://caitanyacaritamrta<o:p></o:p> <FONT color=black> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black><FONT size=4>Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for Krishna <FONT color=black><FONT color=black><FONT color=black><FONT size=4>-- and in the association of genuine devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107): <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black><FONT size=4><FONT color=black><FONT color=black><FONT color=black><FONT size=4><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT color=black><FONT color=black><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black>Srila Prabhupada – “Dormant devotional service to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, dormant love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service”. Guru-krishna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija.http://caitanyacaritamrta.com/madhya/19/...<o:p></o:p> <o:p><FONT color=black></o:p> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black>Srila Prabhupada – “Dormant love for <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> exists in everyone's heart, and it simply has to be awakened by the regulative process of devotional service. One has to learn to use a typewriter by following the regulative principles of the typing book. One has to place his fingers on the keys in such a way and practice, but when one becomes adept, he can type swiftly and correctly without even looking at the keys. Similarly, one has to follow the rules and regulations of devotional service as they are set down by the spiritual master; then one can come to the point of spontaneous loving service”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p><FONT color=black></o:p> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black>This love is already there within the heart of everyone (nitya-siddha krishna-prema). http://caitanyacaritamrta.<o:p></o:p> <FONT color=black><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">com/madhya/22/...<o:p></o:p><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <FONT color=blue><FONT color=#0000ff><o:p></o:p> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=black>Srila Prabhupada – “<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness is dormant in everyone's heart, and when one comes in contact with devotees, it is awakened. <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness is not artificial. Just as a young boy awakens his natural attraction for a young girl in her association, similarly, if one hears about <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in the association of devotees, he awakens his dormant <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness”.

The true facts of Spiritual identity <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font][size=/><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and that will be realised when one is liberated. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> is the best." /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) The meaning of the sanskrit word Svarupa is explained by Srila Prabhupada - "Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad Gita as it is 4.6 The true facts of Spiritual life and the identity, personality, individuality of all marginal living entities, is their full Svarupa, expression of Vigraha (bodily form) eternal loving selfless devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna, the cause of all causes.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA - "All tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, and that will be realised when one is liberated. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> HANSADUTTA: So that's fixed already.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Krishna. That is called svarupa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family we enjoy different rasas. We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relationship with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>... The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> HANSADUTTA: I see.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that "I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas." No. That is not... Everyone thinks, "My rasa is the best." Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Chaitanya-charitamrita. Why don't you see?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> HANSADUTTA: And Nectar of Devotion.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: Yes. Everyone thinks, "My relationship with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is the best."<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> HANSADUTTA: So it's not a matter of aspiring to some--<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> PRABHUPADA: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. PRABHUPADA: Even the trees in Vrindaban, they want to serve <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ananda. Everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, 10 February 1971, Gorakhpur</o:p>

The material world is like a day dream

Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22

Thank you prabhu for the tip I used it in the previous post

Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22

There is something wrong with the net I did not post the above Here is what I tried to post 'Because the Kingdom of Krishna s an <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:P< ns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o:p]</o:p> . <font size=" prefix="st1" <?xml:namespace an is ST1:P></ST1:P<><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime orrelationship with Krishna, can change in the spiritual universe of Goloka-Vrndavana)."Myquote"

Because the Kingdom of laceName>God</ST1:PlaceName> is an <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "]<st1:City" /><st1:place>Milton</st1:place> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport <?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p]< o:p> . <font size=" /><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe). </o:p]<>

There is no origin to our individual ‘svarupa or nitya-siddha body' which is the full identity of all marginal living entities in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they can realize while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if they turn to Krishna Conscious, or can never realize if they continue to choose to misuse their free will and not seek out their original Krishna Consciousness Srila Prabhupada – “By the grace of Krishna only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional state. Whoever is able to renovate such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31 Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada – ‘So the nitya-siddha maha-bhagavata, they come from the spiritual world on the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they, by example, they preach Krishna Consciousness. This is maha-bhagavata. By suffering, by example, everything, they look like ordinary men, but maha-bhagavata. How it is tested? Never forgets Krishna. This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya' kabhu naya zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered. So although you have fallen in this material world, and suffering the pangs of material existence, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [bg. 13.9], on account of accepting this material body, still, Krishna personally comes, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [bg. 4.7]. This is glanih, discrepancies. We are living this material existence, this is not real life. Real life is to become maha-bhagavata". Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport Dhirasanta: Srila Prabhupada was walking in St. James’s Park, tapping his cane on the ice that had formed overnight. At one point he asked, “What does this mean?” We looked at each other and wondered what we should say. Prabhupada asked again, “What does this mean?” We couldn’t fathom what Prabhupada meant. Suddenly he said, “Ice is maya. The original constitution of water is liquid, but when it comes in contact with freezing weather it becomes hard ice. And when there is ice, there is the possibility that you may slip.” Prabhupada may have been breaking the ice because he didn’t want anyone to slip. He continued the analogy, explaining that the heart becomes hard, but just as the sun rises and melts the ice, in the same way the continued chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra softens the heart and reinstates the individual in his natural constitutional position. Srila Prabhupada: - “We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krishna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the 'seen' disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”.

Are you trying to be funny? Its obvious he never wrote it in English : Anyway a few more food for thought comments. “Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> There is no origin to our ‘svarypa or nitya-siddha’ body. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they can realize while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if they turn to Krishna Conscious, or can never realize if they continue to choose to misuse their free will and not be Krishna Conscious. <o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “By the grace of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o:p]</o:p> . <font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere, either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by <st1:City><st1:place>Milton</st1:place></st1:City> in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport <o:p></o:p> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Srila Prabhupada - “Only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional state. Whoever is able to renovate such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31<FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT size=3></o:p><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “Our separation from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”. <o:p></o:p> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”. <o:p></o:p> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada: - “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their Lila with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya (Impersonal Brahmajoyti) after being killed three times as demons. This Brahma-sayujya mukti is non-permanent”. <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>All Quotes from Bhaktivedanta Archives <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=2>http://vedabase.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:p3rmZs-4iIgJ:www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/Commentaries/brahma-intro.html+Madhvacarya%27s+Commentary&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

Look where the quotes starts on your post and you will find it is correct. Thanks for pointing that out This is the full sentence- Because the Kingdom of <ST1:PlaceName>God</ST1:PlaceName> is an <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font size=" /><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe). <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. We have wrongly come to believe that all nitya-siddha devotee’s can never fall to their sub-conscious lower self or nitya-baddha dreaming state, however it is possible to fall from ones full bodily self due to non Krishna conscious desires, thoughts, choices and free will, but most do not take that path. It is only the many, many expansions of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that can never fall down. <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>, "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for Krishna -- and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107)

Are you stupied? What do you think the above means? Srila Prabhupada - "svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad Gita as it is 4.6 Madhvacarya's Commentary - "One may wonder that if the Supreme Lord Krishna is eternal then is His svarupa or transcendental body eternal as well? To this Lord Krishna replies that He is unborn. In this verse the words avyaya atma means the eternal body of the Supreme Lord. This also allows for the reality of His many incarnations such as Rama and Buddha. Just as it has been explained previously that the atma or soul being a purely spiritual form is without beginning and eternal, in the same way the svarupa of Lord Krishna should be understood to exist".

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah <o:p></o:p> 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT face="Times New Roman">ALL those who choose to use their free will and forget ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSrila Prabhupada writes: “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: <o:p></o:p> Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah <o:p></o:p> 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> “Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117. <o:p></o:p> There is no origin to ones nitya-siddha-svarupa body. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they can again realize while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if they turn to Krishna Conscious, or can never realize it for an almost eternity if they choose to miss use their fee will and not to be Krishna Conscious

Many of us are convienced of our ‘origins’ (actually there is no origin) Many devotee's are 110% aware that our present consciousness has originated from our true perpetual bodily identity from either Goloka or Vaikuntha. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position'. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is Because the Kingdom of <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PlaceName>God</ST1:PlaceName> is an <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:Street><st1:address>Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place</st1:address></st1:Street> that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe). <o:p></o:p> We have wrongly come to believe that all nitya-siddha devotee’s can never fall to their sub-conscious lower self or nitya-baddha dreaming state, however it is possible to fall from ones full bodily self due to non Krishna conscious desires, thoughts, choices and free will, but most do not take that path. It is only the many, many expansions of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that can never fall down. Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated <st1:date Month="11" Day="14" Year="1968">November 14, 1968</st1:date>, "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti -- love for Krishna -- and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107): Dormant devotional service to Krishna is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, dormant love for Krishna is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-krishna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija. http://caitanyacaritamrta.com/madhya/19/... Dormant love for Krishna exists in everyone's heart, and it simply has to be awakened by the regulative process of devotional service.</o:p> <o:p></o:p> The nitya-siddha’s personality, identity and form refer to ones perpetual Krishna Conscious body that is always there in Goloka, even when ones dreaming nitya-baddha-sub-conscious lower self is in the material universe experiencing mistaken desires.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> <o:p> Here is found the words of bonafide wisdom of what the eternal potential and full character (svarupa bodily form) of what the jiva soul or marginal living entity really is?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan (the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceType>Kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>) as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa or atma (self) vigraha (bodily form) devotional body. <o:p> </o:p> Therefore it is a fact that presently it is due to that our mundane roaming projected consciousness (dull nitya-baddha consciousness (also known as jiva-soul or life-force) has now forgotten while trapped within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within His imperishable mahat-tattva creation . <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada says that we cannot argue about it, therefore, as Prabhupada's disciples, we have to accept his final words: - "Because he falls down from ‘brahma-sayujya’ (another name for the Impersonal inactive motionless Brahmajoyti), he thinks that may be his origin; but he does not remember that before that even he was with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. Formerly we were with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> in His Lila or sport" (Lecture in Australia 1972) <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This entire argument is actually a fight against impersonalism, against those who foolishly believe we originate from the impersonal aspect of the brahmajoyti. Even though Sila Prabhupada clearly said in his famous crow-and-tal-fruit logic “Don’t waste time, whether we came from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s pastimes or from some other spiritual source, at the present you are in neither. So the best policy is to develop your <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness and go there [to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>], never mind what is your origin. What is the use of such discussion?” ”Letter to Australian devotees 1972 ” <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This fact is based on Prabupada’s conviction that we did not originate from the impersonal feature of the brahmajoyti which means we all came from Goloka.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Personally I am not wasting my time on the ‘origins’ (actually there is no origin) debate because I am 110% aware that we have all originated from either Goloka. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This debate will go on and defeat the rascal mad impersonalists and those who foolishly and arrogantly claim we originate from the impersonal characteristic of the brahmajyoti or tatasta-shakti.<o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada can and does say that the living entity (nitya-siddha) never actually falls from the spiritual world however the forgetful consciousness of the living entity (The projected nitya-baddha consciousness) can ‘fall down’ and enter the mahat-tattva in a dream state that simultaneously leaves one authentic body back in Goloka . <o:p> </o:p> Paramahamsa: So we can come to the Spiritual World and return? <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. <o:p> </o:p> Paramahamsa: Fall down? <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? <o:p> </o:p> Srila Prabhupada: - "Every living entity has got a little free will. And <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that". Real bonafide Vaishnavas or devotees of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> must strongly fight back against these Impersonal ideas that has polluted the teachings of Lord Chaitanya claiming we have all originated from some nonsense tatastha inactive condition of Mayavadi and Buddhist consciousness. </o:p>

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “When we "return" to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site <!-- / message -->

A letter from Jayapataka Swami A mother is sending me a question from her son: 'He would like to know if we ever met Krsna before and if we have been in the spiritual world?'. This is a complicated question as each individual has his own individual history. We are all coming from Lord Sri Krishna and originally we come from the spiritual world. Exactly what are the circumstances of our specific fall into this material world may differ from one person to another and we will only know exactly when we return to the spiritual world. Just like if someone falls off a ship into the ocean and there are dangerous sharks all around. When the rescue boat comes to save us we don't first argue how we fell into the water, but first we get out. Then everything is clear how we fell in. First things first!!! First get out of this illusion and then how we fell in the first place is clear. Until we are in the spiritual world again it isn't possible to understand the situations which can permit us to leave it and get into the material world. I hope that this finds you in good health. Your well wisher, Jayapataka Swami

“The Relationship is with Krishna is Eternal” Here, then, is how Srila Prabhupada described our original state and the way we fall and leave it. “Constitutionally,” he said in one letter, “every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikunthaloka [the personal spiritual abode of the Lord], has a chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy.” “Usually,” he explained, “anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misuse of his independence.” In another letter, Srila Prabhupada gave further insights. “We are always with Krishna. Where is Krishna not present?” But “when we forget this fact we are far, far away from Him. In the Isopanisad it is clearly stated, tad dure tad v antike: ‘He is very far away, but He is very near as well.’ (Isopanisad, Mantra Five). So this forgetfulness is our falldown. It can take place at any moment, and we can counteract this forgetfulness immediately by rising to the platform of Krishna consciousness.” Our relationship with Krishna is never lost, Srila Prabhupada said. “Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya. So it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of Krishna, and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krishna is eternal, as both Krishna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.” In still another letter, Srila Prabhupada restated this in yet another way: “We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar with the material world, or maya.” But when we chant the Hare Krishna mantra sincerely and without offense, our original Krishna consciousness is at once revived. “So naturally everything about Krishna is originally known to us all, and as soon as we begin to associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His holy name, this memory gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always serving Krishna in different ways.” Our separation from Krishna, Srila Prabhupada taught, is like a dream. We dream, “I am this body,” and we dream of happiness in material relationships. This dreaming condition is our non-liberated state. But although this state of dreaming may seem to last for lifetimes, as soon as we become Krishna conscious we awaken, and the dream at once disappears. “After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila [pastimes] of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, like dreaming.” From Jayadvaita Swami web site

On learning that the material world is not our real home, we naturally wonder, “How did we get here?” By Jayadvaita Swami from Back to Godhead, May-June 1993 When we hear that we live in this material world because we are “fallen souls,” it’s natural for us to ask, “Where have we fallen from?” Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? And if so, how could we ever have fallen? In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna says, “Once you attain to that spiritual world, you never fall.” So how then could we have fallen from there to begin with? Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light—only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.” Well, then, since we’re called “eternally conditioned,” eternally illusioned, perhaps we’ve never really fallen at all—we’ve just always been down. That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected. “Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, three generations before Srila Prabhupada in the line of spiritual teachers, put it this way: “Please avoid the misleading question ‘When were these jivas [living beings] created and enthralled?’ The Mayik time has no existence in spiritual history, because it has its commencement after the enthrallment of jivas, and you cannot, therefore, employ Mayik chronology in matters like these.” From Jayadvaita Swami web site.

If guruvani wants to minimize Prabhupadas teachings by calling his followers less intelligent, then thats alright however let him express such abuse on his own thread. On this thread philosophical constructive criticism based on Prabhupadas teachings are fare however, when one directly criticises Prabhupadas teachings by making them less is unfair and offensive to those who are presenting his teachings. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>

The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky which is one of the petals of the lotus flower in the Spiritual Sky, is by choosing to no longer be Krishna's servant. however, because ones perptual svarupa body in Goloka is eternally there in Goloka, one only falls down in a sub conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) to the mahat-tattva similar to how one dreams at night while sleeping in their present biological body. Such 'dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu so they can enter His dreams that are all perishable. What remaims 'imperishable' beyond mundane material time and impermanance is ones perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha identity or body that every marginal living entity has had eternally without origin. One just has to wake up from their material dreams within Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and realize this fact by again becoming Krishna Conscious

It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature . . . - Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.

Bhaktijana: Has my soul ever been liberated? Prabhupada: That you know. I do not know. Bhaktijana: If I was once liberated... Prabhupada: 'You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. Prabhupada: 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) emphases added

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)