bija

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq7Zg-A5_Rw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"> Know that the Lord is well and inside of you (hindu).....George

In more ways than one.... Anyhow, here's a sweet toon. A somewhat realized tune too ol' chap! <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doYNBHE8Yes&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"> I dont take coffee I take tea my dear I like my toast done on one side And you can hear it in my accent when I talk Im an englishman in new york See me walking down fifth avenue A walking cane here at my side I take it everywhere I walk Im an englishman in new york Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york If, manners maketh man as someone said Then hes the hero of the day It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile Be yourself no matter what they say Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york Modesty, propriety can lead to notoriety You could end up as the only one Gentleness, sobriety are rare in this society At night a candles brighter than the sun Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than a license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run If, manners maketh man as someone said Then hes the hero of the day It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile Be yourself no matter what they say Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york Im an alien Im a legal alien Im an englishman in new york Ahhh...maybe caitanya (consciousness) loka...would be more apt for certain chaps (and gentlemen) (and the wee simple folk)...

And oldi but a goodi Melvin...lub.gud>>>>lub.gub>>>>lub.dub:bounce: One should never forget...>>> Thx!!!

I am sorry Sarva, I do not wish to disturb you, but this idea of residents of Goloka having a subconscious (with interest other than Krsna) is wrong, and has never been supported by sastra. The spiritual potency is fully that, spiritual and fully cognizent. There is no unconscious or subconscious psychology or levels. The concepts of unconscious and subconscious realities are related to the psychology and make of the material mind (subtle body) and material reality. Such states (or mind) do not exist in Goloka and have nothing to do with the Lord's internal energy (spiritual transcendence). They are related to maya or external energy - mind, intelligence and false ego. And are of this relative world. Spiritual forms of Goloka are complete spiritual substance, parts of the superior energy: Surely any dreaming in that land would be about Krsna?? And be of the superior energy (spiritual jnana - cognizence) (spiritual bala - structure) and (spiritual hladhini - devotional service). I am sorry Sarva, I cannot accept your philosophy. But ofcourse I accept your sincere service mood.

Some thoughts... Jiva and spiritual form: Form saturated in rasa is dependant upon hladini shakti. Sri Krsna (Rasa Raja) without Srimate Radharani does not exist (such has never been - that is why Srila Prabhupada requested all paintings of Sri Krsna not exclude Srimate Radharani), as she is always in his heart. Similarly the liberated jiva (marginal soul) attains a spiritual form (in Goloka) upon accepting service to hladhini shakti. The pure devotee always residing in Sri Krsna's heart. Spiritual love is inconceivable in that, how can someone reside in anothers heart. In the gross (material bodily conscious) form of love one wishes to gratify and have all things claimed in his/her heart, thus attempting to control the environment (our fallen situation presently). (Remember Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said 'dont try to see the Deity, try to get the Deity to see you'.) In the spiritual concept the lover chooses to live in the others heart. Sri Krsna solely has claim to possess all things within his heart! The supreme spiritual autocrat! And Sri Radha is the personifaction of Maha-bhava - the seen. Srimate Radharani is described as having entered complete divine madness loosing herself fully in Sri Krsna. Jaya Gauranga! Why in Gaudiya philsophy is Sri Krsna considered the Original source? Rasa Raja! Being of marginal potency is no loss! Love is much more magnanimous. I remember when I first read Srila Prabhupada's books finding that I was jiva, marginal energy, I was deeply saddened. With a feeling of incompleteness. Little did I know the depth of love of Sri Krsna! Maybe our initial falldown had to do with envy...envy of a deeper reality...so instead we decided to make our own reality and claim, and try to be Lords. Looking externally... What a blunder! When infact a deeper reality was never to be feared, but instead, that deeper being was our inheritance from the Supreme Love - a being saturated in Love. Hladini shakti! Material existence has always been full of fear. The hurdle now is to realize fear is a temporary illusion of maya. Acceptance, surrender, and humility being three major keys... Jaya Srimate Radharani!

My argument is this Sarva. Three main energies: Internal, Marginal, External. The Lord's energies are eternal and multifarious, and iconceivable potency. Jiva shakti (marginal energy) is eternal potency, and in essence generated from cit shakti (spiritual potency). But due to its marginal nature it is prone to fall or misidentify with material energy. This material world is not false but temporary. The external energy being a transformation of the Lord's spiritual potency (the example of milk and yoghurt). Transformation of the spiritual potency of the Lord for souls who wish to enjoy seperately. see: The idea that transformation of energy is not possible is Sankaracarya's philosophy, for fear that Brahman would then be transformable. He did not accept that the Lord has multifarious potencies (energies), for in that case spirtual personality would then have to be accepted. The gopies are not jiva shakti but direct expansions of hladini shakti. The jiva instead is a transformation of energy, but, by the Lord's great mercy may serve hladhini potency, thus regaining its true, eternal, and Original nature. Which ofcourse is spiritual. The spiritual having nothing to do with maya (external potency). All eternal residents of Goloka are of/and identify with the Lord's spiritual (cit) potency...spiritual substance (complete). The fallen jiva is presently identifying with external (acit) potency....material substance. The gopies, cowherd boys and other direct expansions of the cit (knowledge) and hladhini potencies have never fallen. They are not a transformation of energy like jiva potency (fallen - identifying with avidya), but instead are a part/or servants of inconceivable hladhini shakti eternally (by Bhakti Devi's grace), with Sri Sri Radha Krsna in the centre. Bhakti Devi organises all affairs of Goloka. The jiva may also serve under the guidance of Bhakti Devi. Bhakti Devi is independant (see Madhurya Kadambini) and may offer her services to whom she chooses. The nitya-siddha or pure devotee is also fully independant and may manifest bhakti in anothers heart upon choosing (audarya). That is why the offender may not enter the spiritual sky, until the pure devotee chooses. To say that the direct associates of Sri Sri Radha Krsna can fall is incorrect, what to say of the jiva souls who fully identify with cit shakti (full of hladhini) in service to Bhakti Devi. To say that either of these personalities can fall is great blasphemy (toward Bhakti Devi and her potency):

These ideas are Sarva's conclusions (extensions), not fully Iskcon. As far as I understand they are like an add-on to the fall from Goloka theory, which ofcourse is incorrect. Note the word here sky? This does not say planet. Rather the sky that surrounds the planets is made up of marginal particles. All souls are brahman by nature, jiva is eternally marginal. But the marginal soul identifying fully with rasa dance (hladhini shakti) never falls, being fully absorbed in hladhini potency. The particle is always a part of the Whole. In Gaudiya philosophy the sweet centre resides on a personal spiritual planet, surrounded by sky. The gopis etc are internal potency (not marginal jiva shakti), therefore they orbit around Krsna in the rasa dance on the planet (nitya). The marginal souls satellite around that planet in the spiritual sky (refer Sri Krsna Samhita) - also nitya intrinsically but prone to fall by misidentifying with the temporal. Perceiving themselves as controllers seperate from the Supreme Controller (the Supreme Sun - Goloka, one could say). Fallen since time immemorial. In the Vedanta Sutra it is said that the liberated soul can either choose to manifest a spiritual body, or, not manifest a spiritual body. Therefore, the soul (as an eternal part of the whole - being situated in the spiritual sky) may choose to align (one could say) with the activity of the rasa dance (with form on a planet). Or the soul may choose (upon liberation) to remain in santa rasa in the brahman effulgence, identifying with the whole (complete brahman) in the sky. As human beings we have a profound psyche, because it can come in contact with the adhoksaja plane of existence (spiritual potency). This contact is through buddhi - buddhi yoga which is non-different to bhakti yoga (see Gita As It Is). This is Srila Prabhupada's point - that through bhakti (buddhi) the marginal fallen soul can realize the intrinsic that is already there. Simply in need of awakening. In transpersonal psychology and myth the same is said, but in different terminologies (often with impersonal philosophy) - the human potential (human birth being very important). Gaudiya Vaisnavism is quite unique in that its claim is that the marginal potency can serve the rasa dance of the Lord and enhance hladhini potencies bliss (by serving a nitya siddha)- thus gaining identity or residence in Goloka planet. With complete identification as a servant of the servant of the servant. Ofcourse anyone who knows a little of the Bhagavatam knows that it uses words from this world to explain a spiritual reality, therefore words will always fall short because they come from this material plane. What is taken is the essence or intrinsic nature, which must be realized. It is within us eternally because we are eternally a part of the Whole, in that sense never fallen. We just need to wake up (realize). If we simply rely on words only then we have many divergent philosophies. We need to practice with great attachment to realize within. Jiva Jago!

Thanks for this 'delicate' post. Very nice! Always a pleasure to learn new depths of bhakti culture and simplicity.

Thanks for reading it Stone. Nice hey. Poems like that keep my fragile faith moving in the right direction. Thx Indu!

Some versions of christianity teach that these are the end times? And that global signs are showing Christ's return is imminent. Some hindu's teach that this is Kali Yuga, and that global degradation is inevitable. Can these world views have a negative impact on the environment, by shaping the way we see the world? And the way we treat it? Especially considering more than ever in modern history, we have the opportunity to discover that planet earth and its creatures are an inter-connected organism, dependant on each other. What to say of the spiritual inter-connection permeating all things.

Yes, feel the same here deathless. Sometimes I think as a devotee (can only speak for myself), one can be very impersonal and falsely renounced (missing out on the simplicity of relationship - with god in the centre). Radha and Krsna are very lusty. Wondered the same. Maybe they did, or love may have come and gone several times since;). Yeah that's it hey deathless, each to their own way and choosing. All the best to them as they follow their hearts.

..."What is love, but whatever my heart needs around? (song lyric)"... Material or spiritual lust? It depends on what we desire. Desire is always there one way or another.

I feel so too. Relationships need to be based in deeper God consciousness to harmonize and blossom. So in that sense both parties being of the same spiritual group would be a good start. Even if they both align to one group, their individualities will remain after formal marriage...and the deepening will still need to be worked at. Throughout the christian community back in the 60's and 70's (in my parents time) it was necessary for a protestant to convert to marry a catholic. I believe these things are not the main issue of spiritual substance. What to say of different Gaudiya groups being unable to harmonize. This Gaudiya Math/Iskcon thing surely should not come before love (I am not talking about lust here). And if it does, in my opinion, there must be some incorrect spiritual teaching in one of the groups involved. Ofcourse though, it depends on the spiritual maturity of the couple. And maybe that is why some leaders try and protect their flock (from the slow spiritual journey plagued by doubts).

I very much appreciated english classes at school when I was younger, and am grateful these days for that foundation. Reading and writing is a wonderful gift we can apply in service hey? Books are such a pleasure I find.

Thank you Dasi. Your poem was very nice too. I was wondering how long it took you to compose that...whether in one sitting or over some days. It was like a mini poem/compilation of Vrindavana Dasa Thakura. And I was so pleased that it made Swami very happy!

Hi Indu I removed the PM facility from my account for the time being. Things are ok for me. Very quiet with a little jaap and reading, and inner search for truth and harmony.

Yes very witty. This is a great statement by the way. With so many external walls they would have a long way to go toward union. But ofcourse intimacy may put an end to the unnecessary, bringing them closer.

You have not hurt me, I have several versions of the Gita and like them all. I agree with you on several points. Some devotees who are zealous for that book only, may subtly condemn others (authors). Mature Iskcon devotees have tried to leave this offensive nature in the gloom of the 80's. Ofcourse things sometimes linger in group think. Saying that, I have read other Gita's outside the Gaudiya fold and would tend to agree with Srila Prabhupada when he says, these other commentaries miss the point. Such a statement ofcourse is spoken from a philisophical stand-point. For example I read some Yogananda (not his Gita) a few years ago, it was so complex and far out that I could not envision how to implement.Totally abstract writing. I know one lady who is still reading it with no headway on the subject. At least Gita As It Is is a practical Gita.

I must say this Sambya. Since November 2007 up till now I have read two pages of Gita As It Is everyday...should be finished the book after christmas. Man, its a great book, the realizations pour out from that very special soul. Ofcourse as we know, that version is not the only one - but gee its a good one.

Sambhya, I am thinking mostly over the last years from the viewpoint of Sri Caitanya, who spoke of simultaneous oneness and difference. For me this key philisophical statement has been a vehicle of understanding, as well as the goal. So therefore, if diversity is an essential element of my faith/practice toward knowing...how to harmonize that diversity that exists in the world? let alone when my consciousness broadens deeper than the body (bag of skin). Each world tradition has given keys to harmonize. The Gaudiya path has proclaimed Sri Krsna as the source of truth, and from that fountainhead a spiritual cosmology and personology where all things have room...even to the extreme limits of divided bodily consciousness (ignorance). Personally I think those who have not experienced within their being the deeper potential (a spiritualized mind - soul/psyche), will always speak from the standpoint of dogma. Then those who do not follow their ultimate persona/impersona dogmatic truths, are considered deviants. Then they (the dogmatic) begin to persecute such (even using sastra). When infact they (the dogmatic) have very little hope, with such offensive mentality, of attaining a spiritual body. Because they fail to recognize (the key and door) that the cultivation of a spiritual body first arises from cultivation within the mind. This is the process in all ancient tradition including Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Western mindsets and now the world have moved away from the ancient wisdom, to an exaggerated sense of individuization. Thus the degradation of nature treated as an object and the spreading of kali yuga. But the tradition also says that now the time is ripe for a golden age. The individuization process then begins to move toward that harmony centre (Krsna). The dogmatic always persecutes, even their own kind. For they have not yet realized what they are (a part of non-dual absolute truth). And they do not realize that by the grace of the tradition that they exist in, that all things have place. Even the unnatural or apparent irreconciable paradoxes become harmonized, because in due course in deeper realization, the fruit of the faith tradition manifests in the heart. So therefore those who are moving early (which is really not the case), back toward the unity, finishing the deeper individuization, must be very tolerant. For them the individual remains, after realization, in the spiritual existence. So infact from that vision, the dogmatic are also perfected. Infact the whole environment becomes spiritualized. Harmonization - symphony, Unity in diversity. Waiting, humble as a blade of grass and as tolerant as a tree.

Chandu, there are big oceans full of gravity, and also there are small ponds. Even the tiniest pebble will create great ripple in the small pond. Rasa. Now saying that, I have very little time for dilly dally. And all the time in the world for spiritual encounter. You have blessed a man here today (my neighbour)... I shared some of your posts that enlightened his soul...so really you are an extension of my Gurudeva. And I would never wish to offend him, please forgive me. You may have no idea how you have blessed us...thank you.

I am sorry, my mistake, I meant to say Sri Amrtanandamayi Devi http://www.amritapuri.org/ not this lady you have given the link to http://www.om-guru.com/html/saints/anandamayi.html.. I read Sambya's post wrong. I do not know this lady. Interesting read all the same: Goodness Sambya, what a beautiful soul you have recommended!!

She truly is a remarkable person Chandu. These psychiatric definitions fall far short of explaining the manifestations of a saints behaviour. Lets face it, most of these medical manuals even consider belief in God to be a disorder. One would be best to research hindu rasa sastra to understand. The western medical model would possibly suggest most of India's great saints as disordered. Infact many of the proffesionals who rely solely on these manuals have. Very sad really. Western ethnocentrism for centuries has placed very little value on the non-ordinary state of consciousness, but instead based its findings on an outdated newtonian model that the human being is a conglomerate of protons and neutrons in a bag of skin, seperated from its environment by that bag. Whereas ancient wisdom and culture (including hindu culture) has placed the transcendent consciousness as the pinnacle and most important factor of being. Often teaching a profound unity, rather than simply the base material idea of seperate organisms.

Dear Bhismashelper, One of the greatest gifts of Hindu culture in my opinion is the ability to harmonize. Many of the great saints who have evolved from the Hindu path have spoken of unity in diversity. Ramakrishna, Sri Caitanya, Srila Prabhupada, Gandhi, Yogananda...the list goes on. The world is rich in diversity, so while we exist in this world, temporarily, the practice of unity in diversity is necessary. Infact this practice is not eclecticism as some more new age forms of hinduism teach, but really requires a great depth of spiritual insight. It requires certain qualities to be cultivated. Hinduism is a religion of truth and the Bhagavad Gita says clearly what is truth and what is ignorance: The idea is to cultivate. So really the beginning of becoming a hindu is not some ritual like baptism or taking a vow of allegiance (which are in themselves acceptable), but instead cultivating and practicing. The qualities mentioned above. Reading scripture, some meditation, etc. In this age of Kali there is always quarrel, so we must tolerate, or all practice will be lost. The Holy Name of the Lord is the touchstone which transforms all gross matter into spiritual reality. And to chant the name of God we need to be tolerant and humble. As the age of quarrel increases so does religious sectarianism. Sectarianism has been with man throughout the ages. As one culture develops it grows seperate from others, in dress, religious practice, formalities etc etc. Even to the point, sadly, of killing each other. This is also apparent in hindu culture (and other religions) today. The sincere hindu's practice buddhi-yoga. The yoga of intelligence connected to super-soul, the internal guru! Super-soul is one, so therefore following buddhi's instruction harmony will be natural. If we are unable to hear our inherent buddhi, but instead the clouded illusory mind of seperation, then we must call the help of external guru to guide us on the clear path. Super-soul will help us in the search for Guru - if we listen. Dear Bhismahelper it would be best to take this path when ready. I am of the opinion there is great need to awaken to a deeper sense of spiritual reality and dimension within the soul - and I firmly can recommend Hindu culture as a means to attain that vision. I am attached to Sri GaurangaKrsna so firstly would recommend (from my heart) the philosophy of Sri Caitanya (it is truly wonderful as we grow). But you have expressed little interest in this, so maybe I can suggest something else in relation to Durga and Kali (more to your mood) that Sambya has also suggested: http://www.ammaaustralia.org.au/ This lady is a real living saint, simple...with a philosophy of love. You can search her on the net and google video. I have met her once and was much impressed! I experienced ecstatic bhava for weeks after meeting her. <embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k5KRfnXCFArW9GbXfm&related=1&canvas=medium" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="250" height="160"> Amma bhajan chant à la mère divine The stormy search for the Absolute Truth (non-dual absolute truth/the summum bonum). your servant.