bija

"Strange Days" November may not be such a good month. Hold Tight to the Lotus of the Heart!

Munshiram Manoharlal (MRML) (India) www.mrmlonline.com This one looks like a very comprehensive store Eshwaar.

Eastern Book Corporation www.easternbookcorporation.com/index.php MotiLal BanarsiDass (MLBD) India) www. mlbd.com Munshiram Manoharlal (MRML) (India) www.mrmlonline.com Sundeep Books (India) www.sundeepbooks.com/servlet/suhome Torchlight Publishing (USA) www.torchlight.com Vedanet (publishers, books) www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=listcats&cat_id=60&Itemid=11 Vedicbooks.net www.vedicbooks.net Publishers and distributors of South Asian literature www.sasnet.lu.se/books.html

well i guess arj the externals serve no purpose if there is no devotion and only for show. but if there is devotion even the smallest external may compliment the inner feeling. here is an example. i do not wear dhoti etc, or sikha presently, but do have a very simple wardrobe of kurti's and other simple hand made cloth. washing those items, folding them each day for the clothes shelf etc...is for me a devotional practice. a very simple 'inner cutivation' of bhakti yoga - rememberance. same with cooking and cleaning simple pots. this is devotional service. one does not have to be anything great to do simple practice. now, if some devotee adheres closer to traditional customs, dhotis, tilaka etc...who are you to say that he is showing off. you may be right in some cases, or you may be vastly wrong. by these orthodox practices he may be experiencing an inner cutivation. devotion is not about showing off, it is the private dealing within the heart, that sometimes becomes more external due to various bhavas. the external is accepted in ways like this, for the thoughtful modest devotees.

In the catholic tradition we were given two names of saints. One at baptism as a baby, that became our permanent middle name. At the age of twelve we were given the ritual of laying on off hands (confirmation). A new name was selected then by the receiver, of his liking. But that name is hardly ever used. The Hare Krsna tradition seems to give clearer hints what to do with the name, in my opinion. Normally the catholics only take a full new name at ordination into priesthood etc, but not always. I dont think catholics ever claimed to be vedic:). Ofcourse there is radical exceptions, maybe like Bede Griffiths, who felt much attraction to vedic externals. Taking the saffron cloth. Good old saint Bede .

The spiritual names given to devotees by their spiritual master often have some devotional significance. If one understands the bhakti path, the devotional name can be a cultivation in itself. For example Nandanandana. This name can be meditated on and cultivated internally with devotional feeling...thus the name dasa. That may seem like an unnecessary thing for some...but for the devotee it is nice, with a devotional scope that is unlimited and ever-new. That is, if you accept the Holy Name of God as having spiritual substance. If the name is taken as a mundane thing, then it is very limited. Stephen Knapp will be a name in some family tree, oneday possibly, with the ancestors wondering what he was like. But the name Nandanandana has charmed people for many centuries. I am sure Stephen would feel 'gratitude' for that Name.

I like that 'little' wisdom too RadhaMukunda. A day lived each day that way is something to be enthusiastic about, on rising and taking rest. A good life. Sounds like a good cultivation. Thx.

I am a bit weary to speak from the heart here presently in case I offend some peoples belief. But I will say this: Lord Shiva is an integral part of my spirituality...and one will do great harm if he degrades himself by saying Siva is greatest or Visnu is greatest etc, making polemics. The non-dual truth is not that. Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura (gaudiya acaraya) says if one makes that mistake and offence, of polemics regarding VIsnu/Shiva, he will have to beg the devotees forgiveness, and remedy by 'constant' chanting of the Holy Name. I have posted the scripture reference of this numerous times on this forum for my own benefit. I can source it again maybe, if some need. Amlesh made the same suggestion on the other thread tonight: One good friend contacted me from AmritaPuri ashram today. He is adoring Amma's sangha. I am happy for him. Love to you Atanu.

Good advice. We should think very deeply and thoughtfully. Especially being born in societies with such freedom to vote. It is up to you guys what you choose. Considering the position of USA in world politics you are also indirectly choosing for us. Please choose wisely and thoughtfully.

Thank you for posting Sarva. I will try my best to keep Srila Maharaja and his devotees in my heart over the coming days. I only had the good fortune of meeting him once and received prasadam cookie. He looked me square in the eye, as if he saw my heart and its need of deliverance. I hope all works in the coming days, for the devotees spiritual well-being. And that Maharaja's service may flourish. y.s.

Also worth noting for readers of this forum. Parasurrey's promised messiah speaks about the Hindu Arya - the Arya Samaj. Here is info about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_samaj The Brahmo Samaj is even referred to by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura of the Sri Gauranga faith (in several writings) - of the same era (thereabouts) as the founder of Ahmadiyya Islam (promised messiah).

Several in the disciplic succession I follow have accepted Mohammed as an empowered incarnation of God. This is called shaktyavesa avatara. A jiva soul empowered by God's shakti for a specific purpose. I have heard this even from the lips of my spiritual master. Therefore I adore Mohammad as relevant in my spiritual life on a similar level to other representatives of God, and therefore the Quran is acceptable to include in my daily reading. How one interprets Quran is ofcourse a different matter. Lord Gauranga (who is non-different to Sri Krsna) also studied the Quran and explained its meanings similar to Mohammad, in that there is one God. And he cleared doubts of some by claiming that God has a transcendental form - the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna and Allah being the same one God. What impresses me about the Quran, dear Parasurrey, is that it has potential to unify all Abrahamic sects (and personally I think the jews and christians would have been better off to at least accept the Quran as bonafide and not false), as its theme is evidently universal. And like all revealed scripture it speaks to the heart of man, with much hidden treasure, also confirming its unifying principle. With potential for a wider universal spiritual upliftment - if taught correctly. As your promised messiah has said, that teachers of religion that force their God on others is false religion. He has also said that the Islamic idea, that Jesus is coming back to assist in the beheading of unbelievers if they do not convert, is also a bogus idea. He has indirectly condemned the modern Islamic jihad of some modern muslims - therefore I accept your messiah as having a very relevant message for todays Islamic world - and also for other faiths that practice fanaticism and intolerance. As a devotee of Lord GaurangaKrsna it would be my duty to encourage you to deepen your faith in Allah. And gradually love him deeper and deeper as your life progresses. (Out of kindness I desire the same for myself). If prophet Mohammed and the promised messiah aid in bringing about that love in your heart - then that is proof enough for me of their validity as true messengers. As a follower of Sri Gauranga I cannot stress enough, the beauty, of accepting a God that has transcendental form. So conducive for love and devotion. All blessings to you my friend. If I fail in my pledge will 20 cents be ok instead of so many rupee

In my opinion even the said man SP would agree with you here Sri. That is an opinion many of the vedic transcendentalists over time have shared and seem to press forward- a gradual upliftment of human awareness. One of the gems from your motherland no doubt. I wonder when that kind thought entered the vedic thought pattern. Surely it wasnt the 19th century;) . By the way I read one of Parasurrey's Prophets books called 'What we believe'. To be honest it was a good read, and a worthy contribution to spiritual culture from what I gather. The only fruit from the Ahmadi tradition that concerns me is this: general muslim world considers them (Ahmadi) apostate...and from what I have read Amadis consider the general muslims apostate if they do not accept the promised messiah. So, once again the dream of unity is further complexified. I wonder why? Maybe it will always be this way in this world, with the real hidden treasure always concealed from the one's who do not seek? Anyway Parasurrey, I have enjoyed the last few days studying your faith tradition. Thanks to you and Suchandra. I read the Quran occasionally and find such mystic gems in it supporting my own faith. But at the same time convicting me of things in my faith that do not fit Abrahamic culture. So what to do? The internal worship of Lord Gauranga cannot be given up for me...so when I read the Quran I see its mystic unity. Something your messiah spoke fondly of...

Thank you Amlesh. Here is the scriptural support of your statement, from Gaudiya sastra:

Hi Eshwaar, here are a couple (dont know about Hindi though). http://www.exoticindiaart.com/ This online store has lots of books. They have free shipping and are reliable, I have ordered from them with no problem. For Gaudiya Vaisnava stuff this is a nice simple store: http://www.touchstonemedia.com/ and here is the cheapest Srila Prabhupada Vedabase that I have found (I am saving for this), way cheaper than BBT prices: http://www.vedaveda.com/gitagita/en/pub/offer/index.html

Affection awakens ccc when we see more than the external. Then bhajan has awakened. When internal association and identification (of the soul) is awakened, the gift has passed down down even to the unworthy, if the higher principle chooses. That priniciple is free to give to whom it chooses. Bhakti comes that way - from that direction. Then it becomes not a matter of why should one worship. But instead, how can one 'not help' but worship. Because what is seen is God. It is the soul proper. Guru internal and external become one. The dynamic grows from there - ever new! This is the shakti. Which enters into us, and empowers us. That is why there is no question of why? It is spontaneous devotion. That is real relationship, affection...and friendship. Guru is friend and full of love. All conflict is externals (not soul and love). By Guru's grace we all must seek the internal. Even if we have sought the opulence of the heavens (the subtle external world) in our youthful folly, and been granted...at some point we will want more satisfaction. The internal (in relations). That is the land of affection. Our inner substance can only satisfy. Scripture says the demigods are always harrassed by the demons. So that land is not our home...we need to go further. Self-realization. Thank you.

Vishnu is transcendental reality Bishadi. Devotional service is also considered transcendental (even in its budding stage). So for me, Sri GaurangaKrishna is the one who desires that service. It is about the heart and the cultivation of devotion, that is the only area of substantial reality for the bhakta (not all these labels and creeds). The dogma (and creed) is only a servant to bring one to understanding. My faith and intelligence (buddhi-yoga) says that heart area transcends the mind...and cultivation of that realm in the human encounter (of spiritual reality), is the source of peace (consciousness free of material suffering). By the kindness of super-soul (visnu tattva). Love (service mood) being the ultimate liberation, rather than the liberation itself. Why sweet and merciful Sri GaurangaKrishna; because that is a personal relationship between soul and super-soul (and the spiritual emotions involved). It is intrinsic to the soul (me) and original. Why? Only God knows the true nature of spirit and soul (who I am eternally) and why I exist. Those things are revealed to the heart in due course, and not for public viewing. Such a realm is considered the source of being, by the devotee. The internal potency of God. While in this world we serve super-soul at every step. One way or another. I hope this answers your question dear Bishadi, thank you for asking. You are very kind.

Quote: <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Mr/Ms Bija, You are talking in double tongue. With Vaishnavite members you talk ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> bhakti. With a mavavadi you support in mayavada. Are You a Vishnava or a Mayavadi, pretending to be a Vishnava to disgrace Vaishnava dharma? . If you are a Vaishnava you should not hear even mayavada let alone actively adopting it and propagating it. quote by Krishna Prema </td></tr></tbody></table> You have called into question my devotion in the other thread Prabhu. You asked what is my standing. Here is my standing: I desire to cultivate a spiritual body that may be applied in service to Sri Guru and Gauranga. Am I a Vaishnava? No. To degraded in life unfortunately. By some good fortune a Vaishnava has granted me his shelter and love. My words at Audarya are not perfect, I am a conditioned soul, who fluctuates from day to day (depending on mood). My posts are mixed, siddhanta and my mind. Please grant me the grace just to be and grow, as Sri Kanthdk71 and others here have allowed. While in this earthly realm I will always seek harmony above all else, and present Gaudiya philosophy in a way that does not offend, but instead hopefully to convince and inspire people to also cultivate spiritual form. This is a very diverse forum, and there has been many offensive arguments. I try my hardest to minimize offensive talk, and set some example of courtesy. While being in this forum I have made friends. Often I have wished to leave this place, but Krsna guides me to serve here and press on. I am happy to be here with Jahnava Nitai dasa. If that service does not satisfy your high standard of Vaisnavism, please forgive me. You may choose your way, and call me what you want. Please continue to serve in purity. I hope the above scriptural quotes have made clearer my words. May I suggest Audarya Fellowship may not be the best place for you, if you desire to avoid hearing other philisophical viewpoints (such as mayavada). y.s.

Here is evidence that the soul can choose.

Here is evidence from Govinda Bhasya (Vedanta Sutra), to clarify my statement:

Here is another book you should read: Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrita by Sanatana Goswami - click here It further clarifies my conclusion of the universality of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. In it a devotee takes a journey through all the Vaikuntha planets where various Deities are worshipped. Eventually the devotee arrives at Goloka. Sanatana Goswami has written a masterpiece to glorify Krishna Bhakti, without offending those of other thought. Please read this book. y.s.

In regards to use of the words 'Non-dual truth'. Here is scriputural evidence by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami:

Have you read Vedanta Sutra (Govinda Bhasya) by Baladeva Vidyabhushana. It very clearly says a spirit soul can choose to have a spiritual body, or choose to not have a spiritual body. That is what I am refering to in the above quotes. Here is the full Govinda Bhasya for your pleasure: click here

Quote: <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by bija There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this: Non-dual Truth! There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love. Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is. We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->