bija

Yes Sambya. Here Srila Prabhupada, from Teaching of Lord Caitanya book, is talking in context from Caitanya's teachings to Prakasananda (if I recall correctly). You are right he was initiated into a certain mantra followingng the tradition of the sect he took inititation from. Caitanya is expressing, what the Goswami's expressed later...that all is contained in the realization of Krsna (krsna consciousness). Yes, he received diksha from his initiating Guru, but he also took siksha. This concept of the importance of siksha has since been handed down in the tradition stemming from him. Thanks Sambya.

Dear Tirisilex, mat-paraḥ—My protection; buddhi-yogam—devotional activities; upāśritya—taking shelter of; mat-parah upasritya is very beautiful...I think of it like this: the shelter of a great tree is beautiful to sit under for cooling shade...the Lord's great tree of comfort for all birds and beasts of the field whose eyes are moist in the cooling shade...with great wisdom the animals of the field have an inner knowing (buddhi) that their greatest shelter is that gracious and kind tree. So to is the inner knowledge of devotion to God (buddhi-yogam) for man...taking shelter underneath the supreme all pervasive truth, which infact lives in the heart. As we journey deeper, toward that internal shakti that resides within, we will realize we are sheltered like a good drink within a well built cup...and that not one drop will be spilt or wasted.

Often there appears to be fearsome looking deities outside of temples. You can see this in many traditions, from gargoyles on catholic cathedrals, to fearsome deities in buddhist traditions and hinduism. They are like gate keepers... But inside the temple is a loving deity with a hand raised forward, beckoning the inward seeker...'please enter, you have nothing to fear.' As we begin to 'draw closer' to the inner chamber of the heart, where the beatific visions lies, we are bound to come across the threshold of the door. The flaming swords of the garden of Eden, the cleansing fire, or whatever one may see... Maybe the demons are really one's own mind, and sin nothing more than the inability to fully realize one's true potential.

maybe you can translate the sanskrit for us raghu?

:popcorn:yeps, maybe he is a boy. (ja joshi by the way is one of our forum members...nice author and follower of mirabi)

there is a tv show on here melvin called grumpy old men, there is another one called grumpy old women. funny show about middle age people and up (and their minds)...now thats maya hey, grumpy old minds ( a tv is just a tv) i suppose the good thing about grace of god is that we can see deeper than grumpiness:eek4: when the childhood innocence leaves...and find some peace in knowing we are not these material minds and bodies - and reality is not all we project. oh...I forgot...krsna was a boy wasn't he you are right melvin.

In a higher sense all things are spiritual - even maha-maya - because all is God's energy. But our behaviours as conditioned souls, under the influence of maya, are considered not spiritual. In the spiritual world there is yoga-maya. For example yoga maya potency was used to bewilder Brahma in the stealing of the cows pastime. Yoga maya is used to slowly lift the veil so that the Lord's associates can get a glimpse of who He truly is - the Supreme controller. Yoga-maya can also influence the devotees in this world.

I think Srila Prabhupada in his Bhagavatam intro called it the 'summum bonum'. Good read too.

ok...no worries thx What I find interesting in this culture, is that expressions developed from smrti, for example rasa sastra based on Bhagavatam, is held as pinnacle literature. Personally I think that kind of evolution is great, because then we are not stuck. The evolution of consciousness and awareness is ongoing for man, and I would not like to be stuck. A balance between the richness of our traditions and 'now' is aspired for personally. Otherwise I may be limiting potential, or attempting to live rigid fundamentalism or something (like an attempt to implement something from a different time). Maybe it takes good intelligence to keep tradition rich while moving forward. I am tired of these fundamentalist approaches that pervade religion and religious. I have always been tired of group think. Ofcourse some may disagree (and attempt to convert all into a mono-genus). If hinduism (hindu culture) is evolving into that, then I would never have joined up to carry its flag...

Bhagavatam is considered smrti by HK's. The rest of the article also explains a littlle about Sri Caitanya's recommendation of Bhagavatam. The article also says a little why the Goswami's rasa literature is held in highest esteem. These ideas are not a new concept originating in the modern Gaudiya groups. They orginate from its founder...Sri Gauranga (who is considered to be Sri Krsna). If that doesn't sit well....then the vedic tradition is very broad with other perspectives to satisfy... ...now that is surely a grace and gift! Most followers/teachers of vedanta accept that there is something on offer to uplift various people and their dispositions. Teaching the followers the highest dharma... Maybe people need a stable rock to place faith in? People need a fair go in this world....

Yes exactly Kula. Hence the stress put forward by Srila Prabhupada about bhakti in Gita As It Is. The souls who received shelter of Hladini shakti originally developed that rasa. The same shakti has now been offered to us, isnt it...therefore the need of humility. I like a quote from Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja, quoting Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, have to paraphrase (cant find it). It speaks about taking shelter of Gaura Tattva and waiting for the higher plane to admit us into rasa (Sri Radha's plane)...rather than rushing in and trampling that plane. I think this points to the mystery of Gaudiya philosophy, and what the spiritual form actually is. I also like the definition of the hladini shakti as been described as kriya. As Suchandra has posted...there never was zero. Why? Because the soul is potent by nature in connection with the Source.. (bliss). And Sri Krsna being the Original Potent Personality with full internal shakti. Our home is definately not the external...by nature our full satisfaction is in the internal potency of God. The land of permanent form. Voidist and zero philosophers are mayavadi*, only seeing the impermanence of external causality. The buddhists teach impermanence, or arising (one thing from another)...therefore emptiness. The little I have read from Baladeva's commentary of Vedanta Sutra explains the soul very well. Full Vedanta Sutra with Baladeva Vidyabhushan Commentary, read here *I would like to soften the word mayavada a little: as a complete study of external things alone. I have had interest in buddhistic philosophy since childhood, and found many gems, but not a rasa like that which is offered by Sri Caitanya. That is why I press on in faith in Gaura Naam.

So true Raghu...what a huge body of work is within this vedic tradition! Let alone realization of the soul...

I have been enjoying reading your posts too Ranjeet..

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.2.32 ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraḿ padaḿ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-ańghrayaḥ SYNONYMS ye anye — anyone, or all others; aravinda-akṣa — O lotus-eyed one; vimukta-māninaḥ — falsely considering themselves free from the bondage of material contamination; tvayi — unto You; asta-bhāvāt — speculating in various ways but not knowing or desiring more information of Your lotus feet;*********avisuddha-buddhayaḥ******** — whose intelligence is still not purified and who do not know the goal of life; āruhya — even though achieving; kṛcchreṇa — by undergoing severe austerities, penances and hard labor; param padam — the highest position (according to their imagination and speculation); tataḥ — from that position; patanti — they fall; adhaḥ — down into material existence again; anādṛta — neglecting devotion to; yuṣmat — Your; ańghrayaḥ — lotus feet. TRANSLATION [someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet. PURPORT Aside from devotees, there are many others, nondevotees, known as karmīs, jñānīs or yogīs, philanthropists, altruists, politicians, impersonalists and voidists. There are many varieties of nondevotees who have their respective ways of liberation, but simply because they do not know the shelter of the Lord's lotus feet, although they falsely think that they have been liberated and elevated to the highest position, they fall down. As clearly stated by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gītā (9.3): aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa aprāpya māḿ nivartante mṛtyu-saḿsāra-vartmani "Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world." It doesn't matter whether one is a karmī, jñānī, yogī, philanthropist, politician or whatever; if one has no love for the lotus feet of the Lord, one falls down. That is the verdict given by Lord brahma in this verse. There are persons who advocate accepting any process and who say that whatever process one accepts will lead to the same goal, but that is refuted in this verse, where such persons are referred to as vimukta-māninaḥ, signifying that although they think they have attained the highest perfection, in fact they have not. In the present day, big, big politicians all over the world think that by scheming they can occupy the highest political post, that of president or prime minister, but we actually see that even in this life such big prime ministers, presidents and other politicians, because of being nondevotees, fall down (patanty adhaḥ). To become president or prime minister is not easy; one must work very hard (āruhya kṛcchreṇa) to achieve the post. And even though one may reach his goal, at any moment one may be kicked down by material nature. In human society there have been many instances in which great, exalted politicians have fallen from government and become lost in historical oblivion. The cause of this is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: their intelligence is impure. The śāstra says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiḿ hi viṣṇum (Bhāg. 7.5.31). One achieves the perfection of life by becoming a devotee of Viṣṇu, but people do not know this. Therefore, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā (12.5), kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Persons who do not ultimately accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and take to devotional service, but who instead are attached to impersonalism and voidism, must undergo great labor to achieve their goals. śreyaḥ-sṛtiḿ bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye (Bhāg. 10.14.4) To achieve understanding, such persons work very hard and undergo severe austerities, but their hard labor and austerities themselves are their only achievement, for they do not actually achieve the real goal of life. Dhruva Mahārāja at first wanted to achieve the greatest material kingdom and greater material possessions than his father, but when he was actually favored by the Lord, who appeared before him to give him the benediction he desired, Dhruva Mahārāja refused it, saying, svāmin kṛtārtho'smi varaḿ na yāce: "Now I am fully satisfied. I do not want any material benediction." (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 7.28) This is the perfection of life. Yaḿ labdhvā cāparaḿ lābhaḿ manyate nādhikaḿ tataḥ (Bg. 6.22). If one achieves the shelter of the Lord's lotus feet, one is fully satisfied and does not need to ask for any material benediction. At night, no one can see a lotus, for lotuses blossom only during the daytime. Therefore the word aravindākṣa is significant. One who is not captivated by the lotus eyes or transcendental form of the Supreme Lord is in darkness, exactly like one who cannot see a lotus. One who has not come to the point of seeing the lotus eyes and transcendental form of Śyāmasundara is a failure. premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Those who are attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead in love always see the Lord's lotus eyes and lotus feet, whereas others cannot see the Lord's beauty and are therefore classified as anādṛta-yuṣmad-ańghrayaḥ, or neglectful of the Lord's personal form. Those who neglect the Lord's form are surely failures on every path in life, but if one develops even a little love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one is liberated without difficulty (svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt). Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead recommends in Bhagavad-gītā (9.34), man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māḿ namaskuru: "Simply think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer some slight homage to Me." Simply by this process, one is guaranteed to return home, back to Godhead, and thus attain the highest perfection. The Lord further affirms in Bhagavad-gītā (18.54-55): brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāńkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiḿ labhate parām bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ tato māḿ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad-anantaram "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me. One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God." <<< >>>

Vijaya is not nitya-baddha jiva. But Jay and Vijaya were gate keepers of Vaikuntha. Interesting to note Ranjeet that Vijaya attained liberation by merging into the body of the Lord, different to what Gaudiya's aspire for. Also an interesting point that Sarva made is that the tatastha shakti jiva souls, as Srila Prabhupada said, are never void or formless. Void is buddhistic atheism which deals with the world of maya (therefore mayavada). We, nitya-baddha jiva's have an intrinsic sthayi-bhava which may even be in santa (kumaras had form), and the nitya-siddha's also have sthayi-bhava exercised.... ....Sarva's argument that there is no time relevancy in the spiritual sky is a very good realization! Because we tend to split hairs and say, 'oh jiva was in a plain sheet of consciousness before vaikuntha, or, no no he was always in vaikuntha!' You see, the acarayas have only said this about the fall: that it happened in a time immemorial, inconceivable to us who live presently in the realm of time. Because we live in this relative world of time and relative form, we can only grasp to a certain extent pure truths. The concept of jiva in its orignal state is free of time, so we cannot speculate when or how the jiva moved from (please forgive my word usage) choosing hladhini into Goloka or not. Time is a false concept in this relation, because time does not exist in the spiritual sky. Therefore speculation on such concepts only leads to divergent philosophies and possible offence. When in truth, in a higher sense, Sarva is right...we have not fallen...we just need to wake up! God is all expansive and all inclusive...he does live in the heart! Jiva Jago!

Thank you Dasi... And we have this opportunity now too Dasi, if we can free ourselves from trampling the tender flowers of (hladini) shakti. We must wait for that plane to admit us... Modern scientific consciousness researchers and even quantum physicists can see the deeper inter-connection these days, or at least the shadow of that consciousness reality. The Krsna conscious researcher and spiritual pioneers can see that ultimate dimension (that exists in another universe) within his/her own heart. Raganuga bhakti... Matter appears to be seperate and isolated, as do the planets and universes...but that is external. Consciousness does not operate within these relative parameters. That is why the first book of Srila Prabhupada is so important to grasp 'Easy Journey to Other Planets'. He was speaking in scientific terminology and theory of that day - matter, anti-matter. How much his heart would be full of joy, knowing that his children and great children have such golden opportunity to apply all things in service inthis 21st century. In my opinion, Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to study all the acarays books and distribute/print them. Personally I feel they limit themselves simply living of quotes here and there from lectures. All the truth is in the books! And the acarays books...Guru tattva is one. Jaya Nityananda! Jaya Gauranga! The life and soul of Vrindavan Dasa Thakura.

CC Ādi 6.25: Why has Śrī Advaita been called a limb and not a part? The reason is that "limb" implies greater intimacy. CC Ādi 6.26: Śrī Advaita, who is a reservoir of virtues, is the main limb of Mahā-Viṣṇu. His full name is Advaita, for He is identical in all respects with that Lord. CC Ādi 6.27: As He had formerly created all the universes, now He descended to introduce the path of bhakti.

CC Ādi 6.21: Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the creator of millions and millions of universes, and by His expansions [as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu] He maintains each and every universe. CC Ādi 6.22: Śrī Advaita is the principal limb [ańga] of Nārāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam speaks of "limb" [ańga] as "a plenary portion" [aḿśa] of the Lord. CC Ādi 6.23: "O Lord of lords, You are the seer of all creation. You are indeed everyone's dearest life. Are You not, therefore, my father, Nārāyaṇa? 'Nārāyaṇa' refers to one whose abode is in the water born from Nara [Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu], and that Nārāyaṇa is Your plenary portion. All Your plenary portions are transcendental. They are absolute and are not creations of māyā." Jaya Narayana!!! http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/6/en

Yes Sarva..Panca-tattva...and onward to us>>> (karandakasayi visnu, garbhodakasayi visnu, ksirodakaysayi visnu (super-soul)...these are adhoksaja.) The adhoksaja plane presses down to us...then descending to us by grace buddhi (devotional service - bhakti)...we begin penetrating through the covering of mahat-tattva... inspired from guru tattva, and supersoul within. To apply us in service to hladhini (kriya) with offerings such as cushions, flowers (bala) etc...in unnaloyed devotion (srivasa) pure devotee. Complete tattva. Back home...to complete Godhead. The end of this miserable ignorance...the opening of vasudeva conception in the jiva's heart. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link --> * side note: we must remember Sri Advaita a combined incarnation of visnu and sada-siva. Sada siva is beyond the mahat tattva and purely transcendental non-different to visnu. Sri Advaita is a great mystery in my opinion, rarely talked about. An exalted being. The bringer of the divine for us all to behold in vision...(we jiva can be graced by vasudeva conception while still on planet earth or shoould I say in transcendental consciousness living a life of application and dovetailing in wisdom!!!) Jaya Gauranga-Krsna conception! Definately not sub-conscious dreaming. Gaura-Nityananda! Sri Advaita... Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 6.21 advaita-ācārya koṭi-brahmāṇḍera kartā āra eka eka mūrtye brahmāṇḍera bhartā SYNONYMS advaita-ācārya — Advaita Ācārya; koṭi-brahmāṇḍera kartā — the creator of millions and millions of universes; āra — and; eka eka — each and every; mūrtye — by expansions; brahmāṇḍera bhartā — maintainer of the universe. TRANSLATION Śrī Advaita Ācārya is the creator of millions and millions of universes, and by His expansions [as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu] He maintains each and every universe.

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 7.15 ei tina tattva, — 'sarvārādhya' kari māni caturtha ye bhakta-tattva, — 'ārādhaka' jāni SYNONYMS ei tina tattva — all three of these truths; sarva-ārādhya — worshipable by all living entities; kari māni — accepting such; caturtha — fourth; ye — who is; bhakta-tattva — in the category of devotees; ārādhaka — worshiper; jāni — I understand. TRANSLATION The three predominators [Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu] are worshipable by all living entities, and the fourth principle [Śrī Gadādhara Prabhu] is to be understood as Their worshiper. PURPORT In his Anubhāṣya, Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, describing the truth about the Pañca-tattva, explains that we should understand that Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the supreme predominator and that Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu are His subordinates but are also predominators. Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supreme Lord, and Nityānanda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu are manifestations of the Supreme Lord. All of Them are viṣṇu-tattva, the Supreme, and are therefore worshipable by the living entities. Although the other two tattvas within the category of Pañca-tattva — namely, śakti-tattva and jīva-tattva, represented by Gadādhara and Śrīvāsa — are worshipers of the Supreme Lord, they are in the same category because they eternally engage in the transcendental loving service of the Lord.

Panca Tattva - five complete truths. CC Ādi 7: Lord Caitanya in Five Features Sarva we connect in (complete ever-new realization) in due course when our sthayi-bhava becomes manifest to us, through the buddhi given by gurudeva or super-soul. It is a great mystery and grace how the pure devotee (through the grace of the complete panca tattva) can manifest eternal service to Sri Radha. Panca tattva is the pinnacle of theistic devotional science. I will finish now...because I have not realized the exquisite service of Srimate Radharani yet. Siddha-deha and sthayi-bhava.... Thanks for allowing me to share without offence. Please forgive me if I have. CC Ādi 7.1: Let me first offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is the ultimate goal of life for one bereft of all possessions in this material world and is the only meaning for one advancing in spiritual life. Thus let me write about His magnanimous contribution of devotional service in love of God. CC Ādi 7.2: Let me offer glorification to the Supreme Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. One who has taken shelter of His lotus feet is the most glorified person. CC Ādi 7.3: In the beginning I have discussed the truth about the spiritual master. Now I shall try to explain the Pañca-tattva. CC Ādi 7.4: These five tattvas incarnate with Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and thus the Lord executes His sańkīrtana movement with great pleasure. CC Ādi 7.5: Spiritually there are no differences between these five tattvas, for on the transcendental platform everything is absolute. Yet there are also varieties in the spiritual world, and in order to taste these spiritual varieties one should distinguish between them..... http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/7/en

Thank you Ramana Dasi. Through one's self realization in bhakti yoga such knowledge will be known. The Lord's spiritual energy is one...made up of samvit, sandhini, and hladhini. Sandhini being described as bala, and the vessel of kriya, for example the Lord's cushion etc. Cit and hladhini being the intrinsic knowledge of what is (complete knowledge)...of service to bliss (the highest bliss). Once again given by Sri Sri Nityananda-Caitanya. Who knew well why Srimate Radharanis' eternal expansions never fall. What to say of the jiva souls who took shelter of Nityananda Balarama! We (in this prison house) did not! Therefore we will receive greatest benefit of first talking shleter of Nityananda Naam. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta has said if one even once hears the name of Nityananda his liberation is sure! Now we know why. This jumping into Radha-Krsna tattva without understanding the tattva has never been recommended...not even by Srila Prabhupada. Gopies are expansions of Sri Radha (hladini shakti)...they are not jiva shakti like us. Guru tattva will descend outside of Gokula, due to mercy, being an expansion of Nityananda-Balarama...from whom all creation flows. The exalted saviour. It is essential to understand this crucial point if one claims to be a follower of Sri Caitanya. In another thread the question was put forward, what is our original body, where is it? We must be careful using material words to describe the inconceivable cit potency. Anyhow here we go... The jiva intrinsically is complete, being a part of the supreme complete. There for all is within that minute spark. The realization of that complete potency is called self realization. As we progress in humility (by not degrading hladhini (gopies) as jiva shakti, but instead become servants of cita (svarupa) shakti in total)...then and only then will we discover the supreme beauty of jiva shakti of Godhead. This beauty being simple...the nature of servant of the servants. This being the fundamental of Sri Caitanya's grace a and mercy given to us jiva shakti particles. Jiva Jago! A term to describe the word mayavada in gaudiya understandings is that which is taken from maya. These subconscious dreaming philosophies are simply that....maya.