bija

Very interesting lecture. My question is, how do we define ananya-bhak? In Srila Prabhupada's books the words 'Krsna conscious' are used over and over! What qualifies one to be considered 'in Krsna Consciousness? Some may say from the perspective of rules - it is one who follows every point! But any sane man knows within himself that rules can easily be broken due to weakness of heart and past mental impressions. So, the utilization of rules is not the ultimate cause of love - unnalloyed (unmotivated) bhakti. Fear of breaking rules cannot bring one to spontaneous devotion. Because the fear of breaking rules is a motivation in itself. The cause of love (Bhakti Devi's appearance in the heart) is the causeless mercy of sadhu (according to Madhurya Kadambini by SVCT)!!! Is that how it works? I think so. I hear in Jayaadvaita Swami's voice a tone of self reflection, self questioning. Maybe we each need to question and search own ourselves to see if our bhakti is unmotivated, unnalloyed bhakti (Krsna consciousness), before we judge others. As a safe course - because we do not know the heart of another fully. Falldowns of a simple soft hearted soul are not considered directly karmic debt. But are infact the Lord's special mercy and purification - according to Srimad Bhagavatam. Because the sincere soul is steadfast in his pursuit of Krsna and self realization. The sincere soul has not false prestige, but instead knows well his fallen state. He knows the human condition on very deep levels (and that is not confined just to Gaudiya Vaisnavism - it is universal). The sincere soul knows he has fallen into a prison house. The sincere soul does not judge others in the prison house, because he knows well his own complexity, falleness, and complete dependance upon Krsna for deliverance. And what is that final deliverance? Gopi bhava! A person who has looked deeply into his false existence can see much shadow and maya. But, by the continual practice of devotion he can also grasp what is Vasudeva Conception. In that Vasudeva consciousness there is no error because everything is Krsna. And if we love Him, He will purify us, to bring us home (to realized Vasudeva consciousness)!! So look out:cool:! Back to Godhead we go... Bhagavad-gita (9.30): api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah samyag vyavasito hi sah “Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.”

Good on you Theist! And here is a huge reading site with free download for the computer: http://nitaaiveda.com http://nitaaiveda.com/veda.zip Like one enlightened person said "before enlightenment, hearing and chanting/after enlightenment, hearing and chanting...' Or, 'The enlightened choice, hearing and chanting...' And one great master said, 'Chant and be happy!'

Quote: <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by gHari Dvaita and Advaita are shown in the following diagram: <center></center> From one vantage the Truth appears to be advaita. Yet from another vantage the Truth appears to be Dvaita. However, it is neither one nor the other. It is both simultaneously, as pictured (a cone). </td></tr></tbody></table>

Sorry I was so late in replying, have had some internet connection problems. Yes, I have read in Srila Prabhupada's writings that saguna brahman is not accepted in the Gaudiya school of thought. The philosophy is saying that Visnu does not come in contact directly with the material modes. Previously you said Sambya that it is good we do not put limits on God. Infact this is the crux of the Gaudiya argument (by Sri Caitanya) - that God has multifarious energies! Basically Internal Potency, Marginal Potency and External Potency. The jiva soul (spark) can come under the sway of the External Energy due to its minute nature and being marginal... Only the marginal jiva souls are considered to be able to come under the sway and illusion of this Maya (External) Shakti. Such is never the case with Sri Krsna. So Nirguna is explained as being free of the gunas (goodness, passion, ignorance) influence. The argument being complete because God cannot be limited to a Formelss Brahman with no energies. Sankaracarya, according to Gaudiya philosophers, put forward the theory that Nirguna Brahma is free of energy - therefore the introduction of Saguna Brahman theory. When infact the Brahman described by Sri Caitanya is the complete Non-dual truth, complete with all energies. Also, with transcendental Personality, as well as formless attributes (impersonal), and all premeating attributes (super-soul). With complete diverse energies such as marginal souls and external illusory energy - in regards to the initial Sri Isopanisad verse that you quoted. Sri Caitanya accepted Sri Krsna as Nirguna Brahman - with transcendental senses and personality. This is the mystery of Krsna consciousness for the sadhaka souls who have found themselves in this temporary world. They seek to find that Personality in all things through cultivation. Here is a very clear description of the tattva - Relative Worlds by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada (click here). Often Sambya, some on this forum say that us Gaudiya's are misrepresenting Advaita philosophy, due to a poor fund of knowledge. So in this regard, a further elaboration from you, of nirguna's deeper meaning may be of benefit? I would appreciate hearing your understandings (as you have kindly given me an ear). Really as gHari has pointed out, simultaneous oneness and difference is a very encompassing point of view. One that has newer and newer meanings and consequence for its adherants every day. I am sure the followers of Sankaracarya find a developing flavor too. Really it comes down to choice. Personally I feel very pure devotees of Sri Caitanya wish to spread personalist conception because they can see that a soul has an intrinsic potential for that rasa. And I feel, would wish to inspire a soul to explore that field within their potency as spirit. Contention is really only the field for neophytes like myself, who are caught in the relative field. If we can raise our vision, by the grace of sadhu and sastra, when can glimpse a higher field free of contention - then maybe we have become swanlike neophytes or madhyama class devotees.

Now Sambya, that has about exhausted my knowledge on the subject;). Anything further from me may just be speculation. y.s.

You may like to read further the Gaudiya understanding of sastra in the following verses: Full purports here (click icons): BG 17.23: BG 17.24: BG 17.25: BG 17.26-27: BG 17.28:

Yes indeed, what you say is very true. Many on this forum have seemed to misunderstand Gaudiya vision. In Gaudiya philosophy the impersonal manifestation of God is never negated. Infact in Gaudiya philosophy the only thing that is negated or rejected is selfish sense gratification (grossness). In the Vedanta Sutra it is said that the living entity in relation to Atma (the Supreme Personality of Godhead) can choose to have spiritual form or not have spiritual form, once it has awoken to its potential (potency). This is all mentioned in the first section of Vedanta Sutra. So what is rejected by Gaudiya philosophy is that there is nirguna and saguna brahma. Gaudiya says there is only nirguna. Correct me if I am wrong but some say that saguna brahma is the temporary manifestation of God (even Sri Krsna). This was held in great disgust by Sri Caitanya as his Lord was considered Visnu Tattva. This Visnu Tattva is also mentioned in Vedanta Sutra commentary by Srila Baladeva Vidya Bhushan. Once again this points to the science of devotional service and surrender to the Lord's transcendental feet. Nirguna is not considered to be formless, but simply without material form. Material form is not considered false, but temporary. So at some point when the jiva awakens to its Original subtsance the material actually becomes non-existent...and all things shine with spiritual light. This is once again poiting to the Supreme Non-dual Absolute Truth, and the Sri Isopanisad verse in question. And the deeper meaning of the syllable OM. And why Sri Krsna says in Gita, 'I AM that Syllable'.

Yes your translation is not incorrect. But here is something very interesting: In Srimad Bhagavatam it is said that the Universe is the body of the Lord. It has also been said that such a description has been given for the neophyte so that he has some tangible subtsance to meditate upon. Now, if we considered the Universe gross matter, such meditation would be a misleading meditation. But the sages well knew if the neophyte could be purified by such meditation on a tangible form of God, that eventually he would visualize in his heart the transcendental subject. This is what I have pointed to in my first post in this thread - and this is pointing to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sambya. The Supreme Non-dual truth. If our eyes are covered by gross vision, we cannot comprehend what is the Supreme Person, or any validity for any Personalism when discussing Pure Truth. But by devotional service, free of material endeavour, gradually Personalism opens up to the heart. It has been said you know, service to sadhu is service to Krsna. One must question why is that? One must also question how is it that the devotee can see Sri Krsna everywhere? And in fact if he does not see Sri Krsna everywhere, then he is seeing illusion (as is suggested in the above Srimad Bhagavatam purport).

Oh Sambya, you are asking some deep questions (considering your knowledge)...I will try my best to answer from what I have read from Gaudiya literature and interpretation. I will admit that I am limited in scope. Yes it is used as an auspicious symbol. A symbol of representation of truth - a great symbol of the kingdom of God. In Gaudiya philosophy Om is considered non-different to Sri Krsna. Lord Krsna says in Sri Gita, that He is the syllable Om. So anything that has connection with Krsna in this world is supremely auspicious. This also includes the positive spiritual life of the sadhaka - who has seen deeper than gross matter (the illusory reflection of the brahmajyoti). For example in Srimad Bhagavatam it is said:

Dear Sambya, it would take some time to open up the finer intricacies of Gaudiya philosophy, and much patience on behalf of all involved in the discussion if it is to take place - considering our various philisophical perpspectives and persuasions. Maybe some Iskcon person would like to share, as your question is asking them, I am not an Iskcon person. Here is one fundamental point of Gaudiya Vaisnava philsophy: The material world is not false, but temporary. The verse you presented from Isopanisad is not pointing to the material temporary illusion (based on sense gratification), but instead to the spiritual fact and reality. The essential nature of the Complete Whole and parts...Non-Dual Absolute Truth. Here is some thoughts on the Gaudiya perspective of living fully without negation. And some thoughts of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja to further clarify my point....please do take time to read the full post... What interests me deeply about the spirituality and path in line with Sri Gauranga is this: Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja has expressed the essence of the philosophy in a title of one of his books ' Positive and Progressive Immortality'. The so-called Monistic and Buddhist paths negate and reject, leading to void or emptiness or Impersonal Supreme Truth. But our path as Gaudiya's is very different. The world is like a field full of delicious fruits, owned by the Supreme Enjoyer. If we plan to enjoy the fruits of this field directly the outcome is not good. Both the Buddhist and the Monist have realized the suffering involved with sensous enjoyment. Suffering being one of the core fundamental beliefs of the theory of conditioned life. So both these philosophers are sitting in a field trying to negate what they see, and thus speculating that the Original substance is nothing like the field that allures and causes so much pain. Therefore the field can be a place of temptation or torment for one craving emancipation. Thus total rejection of that encounter, classing it as false or dreamlike passing substance. The Vaisnava philospher is very different than these two other philosophers. He/She has realized service mood and utilization. Realizing that the fruits of the field are actually for the Supreme Enjoyer - the Supremely Sensous. So the servant gathers 'all good things' worthy of offering and places them at the Masters feet. The Masters kindness is so great, and His love for the surrendered servant so profound, that He shares his bounty in love revealing Himself to the devotee as both immanent and transcendent. The kingdom of God. This is the great skill of cultivation involved in the Vaisnava philosophy, and what I have tried to express in personal life and realization, in regards to seeing others as perfect parts of the Perfect Whole. In regards to developing deeper spiritual vision. Krsna consciousness. Sri Krsna is Beauty and Charm - the essence of all things. The ghastly perversion seen by the materialist, is only due to gross sense gratification, neglecting the Original Purpose. The Divine Reality is explained in Sri Isopanisad in this verse you have quoted, and is not just the monolopy of an institution (Iskcon), but is the inherent substance of all beings, even the animals and the fragrance of the air. Supreme Divine. A reality free from grossness and sense gratification. As sadhaka's, this is our cultivation - a life of application. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja explains the philosophy so beautifully below. Maybe some other people would like to share their perspectives of what God is. To be honest Sambya I am hesitant to talk about God presently, as my conscience says, ' who am I to talk about the Supreme Great'. But hey, what else is there to do;). your servant in love.

Yes dogs can be full vegetarian. My dog is and is very healthy. Some important points: They are like us and need a varied diet, allowing balanced vitamin intake. Never feed your dog onions. Onions can kill a dog. What happens is the red blood cells explode suffocating the dog. As red blood cells carry oxygen. Chocolate is very bad, as it can cause heart attack. Macadamia nuts can paralyse a dog. My dog eats fruits, breads, pastas, and all vegetables. He especially likes green vegetables. Interesting to note in the wild the wolf lives in a pack. The head wolf takes the stomach of the kill, and leaves the carcass to the rest of the wolves. The head wold eats the green vegetation in the kills stomach. Cats cannot be vegetarian. I also feed my dog dry food when I do not cook: http://veganpet.com.au/articles/ My little dog loves carrots too, instead of bones. The carrot cleans their teeth well. Dogs teeth need hard things to chew. If they only eat soft food, then in older age the teeth become week. A good crunch is healthy and keeps the teeth firmly inplace.

Quote: <table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Maybe more to the point he was trying to open up to people what transcendentalism is. Not just some further designation. by bija </td></tr></tbody></table> Just for the record 'he' in this statement is referring to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, hearing criticism can paint a picture in the mind. Your friend is wise. Last year I did service in Second Life. I realized in that crazy place nice impressions work best. Man it takes some effort, and when we fall we get back up, trusting the others whose inherent nature is kindness. Or something like that... Gurudeva said to me, I can go anywhere online, as long as I do not listen to criticism. Still working on that instruction...hard to let go... Hasta pronto:cool:! Otra vista y tiempo! (poor spanish - cya soon some other place some other time).

Make sure you come back if you are prompted. And if I have left, come and get me! This spiritual journey 'is the narrow path...and so is the gate'. Who said that? Some just dont like Jesus the fella...he probably would be a good fella if we ever get the chance to meet him. He well knew though, that not all would love him. It takes time to make friends. Take care...we are all on the journey...and in that effort there is no loss, only gain. You are good fella!

a further thought... If we can penetrate the subject of the matter, by deeper vision, we can then see beyond the psychic field. Such a state of consciousness has various terms, depending upon the tradition, and the modality of transmission of thought. For example buddhists of the Tibetan tradition have called the pure mind - the mind of compassion - bodhi citta. That is one example and pointer toward a clearer vision. It is interesting to note, if our mind is operating on a lower strata, the realm of conflict can be more evident in the psyche, even if not evident in the conscious awareness of psyche. With an intellect developed to a certain extent from that lower strata, one may identify more with subtle aspects of mind. But this still is not the pure mind of compassion, mentioned in the named tradition. Now, here is something very interesting, if by some good fortune we can begin to perceive the spiritual strata, the essence or attitude - then the lower strata's of anothers mind or one's own mind, no longer exist as defect or afflictive in nature. But instead they manifest to the pure heart as expressions of beauty. As outer fields of the essence, the essence which is saturated by beauty and charm. We can begin to relish the other and see them in very deep and clear way. The culmination and beatitude of this is transcendental Krsna consciousness. From that vision true compassion may arise. For the sincere spiritual seeker such a process can be a cultivation. An ongoing sadhana that requires time and effort daily. Once we become aware of such truths, the intelligence of the organism will begin the processing work that need be done. Such is the power of thought, epsecially thought that has its origin in the deeper aspect of being. It has been said for the enlightened soul, all is enlightened, pure, and full of bliss.

[ATTACH]1867[/ATTACH]Is it always compassionate to speak the truth of one's mind (in critique)? Here are my thoughts. Sanskrit words can have various meanings. Citta: this word can mean psyche. It is said by a certain siddhi, someone elses psyche can be seen. Vritti: Can mean attitude. It has been said that the deeper purport or more correctly, attitude of something, cannot be read by the same siddhi. For example we may understand the psyche of something, by its movement, words, expressions, behavious etc. But we may not have such depth of vision of why something exists (its attitude or purport). That we can only speculate from our own mind experience (citta). The attitude has been developed over an inconceivable period. The psyche is more relevant to a shorter cause and effect. The citta has sometimes been called heart, because the mind stuff colored by the modes of nature paints itself upon the heart. When we make critique of someones religious faith or felt spirituality, is it compassionate (considering the above)? Do we really understand the purport of the religious tradition, or the vritti of someones spiritual makeup, and why it exists at all? Thoughts are always considered. I am a seeker of harmony and truth - I am not this body and mind, it is only a shadow of reality. These words may only be shadow too? Therefore seek the essence!

Thanks Suchandra...and by the way I am not the cat. I am the kangaroo... Oscar Wilde once said, 'No point me being anyone else, they are already taken.' Just me and my dog, and eeepc.

... some questions for Bishadi. What place Bishadi, do you think traditions hold for todays world? And can we make comment on the relevance of tradition, without knowing the deeper esoteric content of those traditions? Can we make comment on their relevance without practicing the teachings for some years? Your thoughts would be appreciated. And considered. My liking is expressed here: Notes On The Bhagavata : full e-book click here By Bhaktivinoda Thakura The Bhagavat Explains Itself: 1. It is the fruit of the tree of thought (Vedas) mixed with the nectar of the speech of Shukadeva. It is the temple of spiritual love.... [it is] composed of 18,000 Shlokas. It contains the best part of the Vedas and Vedanta. 2. The Bhagavata is pre-eminently "the Book" in India. Once enter into it, and you are transplanted, as it were, into the spiritual world where gross matter has no existence. The true follower of the Bhagavat is a spiritual man who has already cut his temporary connection with phenomenal nature, and has made himself the inhabitant of that region where God eternally exists and loves. This mighty work is founded upon inspiration and its superstructure is upon reflection. To the common reader it has no charms and is full of difficulty. We are, therefore, obliged to study it deeply through the assistance of such great commentators as Shridhara Svami and Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His contemporary followers. 3. Now Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the great preacher of Nadia, who has been Deified by His talented followers, tells us that the Bhagavat is founded upon the four verses which Vyasa received from Narada, the most learned of the created beings. He tells us further that Brahma pierced through the whole universe of matter for years and years in quest of the final cause of the world, but when he failed to find it abroad, he looked into the construction of his own spiritual nature, and there he heard the Universal Spirit speaking unto him: 4. "...I was in the beginning before all spiritual and temporal things were created, and after they have been created I am in them all in the shape of their existence and truthfulness, and when they will be all gone I shall remain full as I was and as I am. Whatever appears to be true without being a real fact itself, and whatever is not perceived though it is true in itself are subjects of my illusory energy of creation, such as light and darkness in the material world." 5. [Like Brahma, Vyasa also] fell back into his own self and searched his own spiritual nature and then it was that the above truth was communicated to him for his own good and the good of the world. The sage immediately perceived that his former works required supercession in as much as they did not contain the whole truth and nothing but the truth. In his new idea he obtained the development of his former idea of religion. He commenced the Bhagavat in pursuance of this change. or to express in a simple honest way: For me Srimad Bhagavatam is worshipful Deity...:namaskar:Why?...because Sri GaurangaKrishna's heart resides within it! The joy of diversity and unity! 'For the simple devotee, it is not important whether Krsna is God or not. He simply loves Krsna.' (paraphrased from Srila Prabhupada). The goal is not to worship God as such, but to worship the Divine Cowherd Boy. That is the key point Bishadi, of faith free of awe and reverence, and free of antagonistic belief system. Each must find their heart and live it.

Was sitting in the park today doing little meditation and reading. One good friend is in the process of becoming a buddhist monk. So I decided to read 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche'. To try and understand my friends heart, a little more. There was one part of the introduction, that was touching, and I want to share it with you. Thought, you may appreciate:P. Here it is...'My original hope for this book was that it would help inspire a quiet revolution in the whole way we look at death and care for the dying, and so the whole way we look at life and care for the living. Our need for spiritual transformation and to take responsibility, in the truest sense, for ourselves and others has not become any less urgent these ten years on (since first publication). What would it mean if more and more people thought seriously about their future and the future of the world? Imagine how things would be if we could live our lives infusing them with a sacred meaning; if our end-of-life care were always lit by a sense of awe in the face of death; and if we looked on life and death themselves as an inseperable whole. What would be the effect of seeking to make love and compassion the measure of every action, and of understanding, to any degree, the inmost nature of the mind that underlies our entire existence? This would be a true revolution, one that would free men and women to discover there birthright, that inner dimension so long neglected, and unite them with the fullness of the human experience in all its mystery and grandeur."

In the gaudiya tradition real service means service to the hladhini shakti. Srimate Radharani. Bliss potency. To exhilirate anothers heart in love of God. To be an aid and assistance in the manifestation of bhava (ecstatic spiritual emotion). I think that is the cherished desire of the gaudiya guru. Because as that bhava intensifies, Krsna appears. It is said this hladhini shakti is his internal potency. That would be kindness according to the tradition, and the motivating choice - as far as I see the tradition. Material bhava is said to be one's own pleasure, while enjoying the lower field. Spiritual bhava for the living entity, is said to be service of the higher plain, service to Srimate Radharani. Sri Sri Radha-Krsna!

Thank you Theist. Same here, I would desire very much for the others perception to enter my heart, to learn to love. Nice to see you posting.

That is such a hard comment to chew:confused:. Why? We can begin to see the false ego always wants to know, and wants to be right. That ego seems to be so strong that it will even paint a false picture before its own limited eyes, to justify its existence. It does not want to die. So what to do? ********************************************************* As a conditioned being, I cannot see the full picture. Bhaktivinoda said onetime such is the case, but he did say we can intuit it. So should one reject the teacher and book that claims to know the truth? Or, do we intuit within our heart, as an individual particle of soul, what these external manifestations are trying to point us toward. Yes, Bishadi we must progress. As the external world of illusion is constantly in change, we need to intuit the essence of its meaning. On a relative level there seems to be an evolution of mind. That is what I feel (externally). Or can it be, that we are drawing closer to our 'original' self by letting go of ego, therefore constantly seeing knew levels of the external. Maybe the spiritual seeker needs to keep the false ego as a companion and friend for a season, so we learn its tricks well and get to know it, and through intimacy it may eventually listen to us, when we tell it to be quiet. Maybe the wreck, has served its purpose. Until next time...(thank you bishadi). What I am realizing presently, in my progression, is that most of my thoughts are accompanied by that false friend. So Bishadi, your insight that we need to be honest, is correct. Here is my honesty: Gurudeva gently guided me recently...to use the word vraaksha (when commenting) on text. Thoughts. That was kind gentle instruction...because the thoughts are not the authority. Simply expressed, as we move onward...

No worries...the thread digressed of its own accord. Here is something I was reading tonight and it reminded me to utilize my past experiences in search for truth, in an intelligent way. Thought of us all when I was reading it. In regards to our diverse backgrounds etc and shared goal: Notes On The Bhagavata : full e-book click here By Bhaktivinoda Thakura PART I - Introducing The Subject: The Fruitless Reader & The Shallow Critic 1. We love to read a book which we never read before. We are anxious to gather whatever information is contained in it and with such acquirement our curiosity stops. This mode of study prevails amongst a great number of readers, who are great men in their own estimation as well as in the estimation of those who are of their own stamp. In fact, most readers are mere repositories of facts and statements made by other people. But this is not study. The student is to read the facts with a view to create, and not with the object of fruitless retention. 2. Students like satellites should reflect whatever light they they receive from authors and not imprison the facts and thoughts.... Thought is progressive. The author's thought must have progress in the reader in the shape of correction or development. He is the best critic who can show the further development of an old thought; but a mere denouncer is the enemy of progress and consequently of Nature. 3. "Begin anew," says the critic, because the old masonry does not answer at present. Let the old author be buried because his time is gone. These are shallow expressions. Progress is certainly the law of nature and there must be corrections and developments with the progress of time. But progress means going further or rising higher. 4. Now, if we are to follow our foolish critic, we are to go back to our former terminus and make a new race, and when we have run half the race, another critic of his stamp will cry out: "Begin anew because the wrong road has been taken. In this way our stupid critics will never allow us to go over the whole road and see what is in the other terminus. Thus the shallow critic and the fruitless reader are the two great enemies of progress. We must shun them. The True Critic & The Useful Reader 1. The true critic, on the other hand, advises us to preserve what we have already obtained, and to adjust our race from that point where we have arrived in the heat of our progress. He will never advise us to go back to the point whence we started as he fully knows that in that case there will be a fruitless loss of our valuable time and labor. He will direct the adjustment of the angle of the race at the point where we are. 2. This is also the characteristic of the useful student. He will read an old author and will find out his exact position in the progress of thought. He will never propose to burn the book on the ground that it contains thoughts which are useless. No thought is useless. Thoughts are means by which we attain our objects. The reader who denounces a bad thought does not know that a bad road is even capable of improvement and conversion into a good one. 3. Thoughts will necessarily continue to be an endless series of means and objects in the progress of humanity. The great reformers will always assert that they have come out not to destroy the old law, but to fulfill it. Valmiki, Vyasa, Plato, Jesus, Mohamed, Confucius and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu assert the fact either expressly or by their conduct....

Thanks for the info. You speak so highly of Gandhi, such love is very nice to listen to by the way. Here is his Gita commentary in PDF for your pleasure, if you don't already have: The Gospel of Selfless Action - click here You will know a good tree by its fruit. Good tree that Bhagavad Gita! Jaya Vyasa!