bija

Yes Amlesh what is the bhakta? It is one who has no drop of love. What is divine? As Hiranyagarpa pointed, I am just some dude in a foreign country, blissfully unaware of everything (in Bharata), except my own existence here. Not many here seem to be burning with mad love for God to be honest. I wish I could see constantly that land that was. Love seems to be a thing that burns in the heart with longing, deep hankering, and much pain. Wanting to love God, and realizing at some point this mind and body works on a different principle. Maybe its purpose is done in due course. As Mahak says, false ego is functioning well So I question what is existence, and what is use of religion? Religion is not that burning in the heart (that no man sees). No Jagannatha temple priest, or Hindu tradionalist can bar a man from his own heart. Yesterday I was devastated carrying my goceries home. Town was so passionate and the pain deep. My synesthesia feels deeply, it is a subtle world for me (one of mind). One old lady came up to me (i have been sick with fever), and said 'are you ok?'. Yes was my reply, with mala in hand and longing. Madness seems to have arrived. No fool can say the picture in the heart is just an image, worship nothing. All the buildings and institutions rules are dead stone and words. Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu and Guru of the heart tell me all these things are not bhakti....they are not hladhini shakti. We know Amlesh. And this modern world of abstract values can never purchase that heart or steal Vraj from the eyes. The only prayer must be, when will beatitude arise (and service mood begin)?

And Sarah Palin and John McCain and Barak Obama...and quoting Srila Prabhupada to mandate what is best for America. What to say?

Thx for sharing Hiranyagarpa. Things desperately need to change...these old religious ways serve no purpose. Even if that means reform within our tradition, it must be done. If we hold to tradition or teachings from time past, and do not evaluate if it is relevant for todays changed world...then that is foolish. A better option would be a traditionalist who is progressive. We must be evolving...this vedic concept of degrading kali age is only external...the reality is something different. As the body (macro) dies the heart shines. But ofcourse my friend all religious history has shown that change is often rejected as faithlessness. And many realized souls have chose to live outside the norm. Religion seems to divide. I was only discussing today with an atheist friend. What is the use of salvation? It seems to only divide...the saint and the sinner (concepts). Maybe it is all neurosis and a hard bind of the mind to get over, guilt and shame. Salvation cannot be the truth...any religion that bases its structure on that is limited, and harms many. I will share with you my heart. Most of what I have learnt, now needs to be let go of. Subtle realms of mind, what purpose does that serve? Preaching to the unsaved, what purpose does that serve? All this duality, stemming from religion, what purpose does that serve? There is only one need. To see all others as above oneself, and to see all others as one's worshipful Deity, that lives in the heart. I wish to discard all else, that inhibits that from actualizing. And being deeply indoctrinated into religious mindset, that will not be an easy task. There is such a thing as hell, it is the mind of unconscious level (for some) - mainly the religious fanatic when it comes to the religious. How to pass through that if cultivated? Better to live with joy, and accept what we are...then the mind is free. And discovery of what God really is begins, when the mind is free from that duality and psychology. Integrated and whole...and well, and happy. Ready for devotion...pure devotion...without fear of breaking rules that bind. Just some thoughts, as I discard that which is now useless and counter to happiness. I dont know if secular society is better than your homeland, it has many problems too. Massive greed as we have seen lately. We each need to awaken, and if the religion stops that, or is some crutch from some neurosis, it needs to be discarded. This is my personal experience and encounter with religion anyhow. All I see in this world is mind. I wish to let that go also. y.s.

There is only one truth Hiranyagarpa. And it is this: Non-dual Truth! There is only one thing that justifies the need for difference as far as I see, and that is love. Beautiful brahman, beautiful love. Sri Caitanya said brahman is Krsna. The gaudiya theology has incorporated all personages into that non-dual truth, that is the way we have chosen to worship and respect all that is. As have many other sampradayas expressed their vision of love in their hearts unique way. Even the sankara sampradaya is exalted. If there is a need for strong philisophical debate...it is only exisiting to enhance rasa and lila. Any one who does not respect that sacred ground (vedic culture), is a mad elephant in a market place of nectar. True hey.... We can choose to cultivate the impersonal brahman, or personal brahman (realizations). And if we have been wise, at the time of death we will have arrived at our goal. Whether it be Krsna, Siva, Ganesha etc. how wonderful that is! God is so kind, he wishes the bhakta to manifest reality. Multi layered and inconceivable non-dual truth. There is no need for contention (except for play;) ) Jai Acaryadeva!

All just a game from both parties Amlesh...we got multi avatara players goin down. Seeking to press their points. All these Hari's are not so many. It is unfortunate, because now we have become a phantom (that doesnt really exist), for the boys to attack. Sincerity has lost its purpose here, as honesty left the game long ago. Tread with caution my friend. Also the place of birth or creed seems to be a point of contention for some. That infact, has nothing to do with vedic culture, or does it? Therefore my conclusion lies here: bhakti is all that counts, the rest will pass away or change. And knowledge at some point, will have served its purpose - of either uniting us or dividing. Maybe it is time for the age of reason.

Christina who? who? Tell you a funny thing that happened today Trivedi. Was walking down the street in my little country town and four 27 year old Indian men from the big smoke (city) walked past. Nice clothes, black shirts...nicely preened, full of success. As they walked pass me, 'who was wearing kurti and mala', they spoke some joking words in the mother tongue. Little did they know, this old hippie bum....could understand their lingo. They gave me great praise and called me 'Acarya' Any how, off they strolled with mastery...and jumped into their black car...happy as Larry!! The boys have got some catchin up to do...some of us have already chewed the chewed. Seems like the dancing white elephants simply danced.

you are a wise ol' fella I say...guru 'is' everywhere.

A teacher (representative of God) has feet in both worlds...to bring us through. Gotta be practical. You must remember in these conversation transcripts he is intsructing young men well rooted in material life. If he gave only the highest siddhanta, these men would start thinking they were siddha and all was well.

Its true. I had this super chronic case of foot tinea after a long stint in poor conditions travelling. Should have worn those sandals into that Mexican shower...but after 32 hours on a bus common sense waned (and exhaustion took over). Tried all sorts of creams, nothing could kill this 'super tinea'. The weeks went by... So I took drastic measures. I was desperate. And yes, I peed on my feet every morning for one week. That tinea died a quick death!!!:kick:Once again I found my peace with the world and fellow men!!! But!!! Worse was to come. The fungus simply entered my system and went under cover. Flaring up six months later in a massive infection throughtout my body. Really painful. A big penicillin shot (tineas sweet revenge) was called to task:cool:. That shot hurt the most of all, both my bum and my pride:rolleyes:. Yes indeed, pee is a wonder, it sure packs a punch.

No I know why I do not go to church. Songs like that one:rolleyes:. Who is marching on? The soldiers of salvation.

Us internet bhaktas should hold two tags to make ourselves obvious:eek:. One tag saying, 'this is my stuff', and the other tag saying 'this is spiritual stuff'. Then again it should be obvious to an intelligent listener, that a post about US politics or meltdowns or (that famous word)whatever is simply 'stuff' that has popped up in the mind from God knows where. Anyhow...this world is full of stuff. Lets continue.

thank you jan and bishadi

The mother of all religions might be Mother. Early man noticed mother gave life, so they seem to have projected that onto their outer world and its reality. These images were found in various places over the world. Man seems to have collectively evolved religiously through the mind. Interestingly the images found all had no faces and other abnormalities, and the breasts etc all enlarged. I forget the date of this statue, but I do recall it 'far' predates most religions known (sumeria, vedic etc which flourished around 2500 BC). I am thinking this statue is dated at around 10,000 years old.

Dear Vivek, I am not Indian born, and have never been to India. So, your back ground is much deeper than mine both in culture, understanding, and heritage. But here is my thought anyhow. In regards to village folk and their Gods, how would you implement in their minds what can be worshipped and what cannot be worshipped? History has proven all over the world, that even if tribal people are invoked to worship some more common deity, they usually still incorporate their traditional customs into the new system. kind regards.

It depends what dates we accept these vedic texts originated.

I have been re-reading your questions and hope someone can give you answers. Please forgive me for not spending time going through each point one by one. I have been very sick with virus and fever the last days and am low in energy, and have not been giving close attention to your questions. Sorry. your servant.

Since a child I have deep interest in all faiths. As I am maturing spiritually there is no need for me to negate those interests, but to simply keep evolving in understanding. I just got a free Quran of the net today posted to me. I find it has lots of interesting content too Ancient. Fun lol! Oneday I would very much like to read Thoreau.

Lord Caitanya used the word 'acintya' which means inconceivable. That apparent contradictions can simultaneously exist within the divine person. Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. Inconceivable simultaneous oneness and difference. You may read all the philosphy to your hearts satisfaction here (under 'all scriptures'): http://nitaaiveda.com

Let me re-phrase then...suffering originates due to seeing all things outside of ourself as 'objects' for our own gratification. When we learn service mood the other opens to us. Then we begin to see the other. Even God is not an object, when that spiritual reality chooses it will open. It is not for our gratification. For the gaudiya, devotional service (service mood) means end of suffering and awakening of true soul function.

There is no need to fear argument. I am saying suffering is misidentification (and misuse of soul potency) - incorrectly identifying as the mind and body. Have you read Bhagavad Gita? It says we are soul. It is a very simple book on the surface. Dear 'always' we could discuss for eternity like this, as a friend I would say...seek that which satisfies your soul. We are all unique. All the best to you - is my wish.

Lets face facts...your ideal reality is not happening in this material world. You must find your hearts way, and find your peace if not already attained. I have presented a simple philisophical outlook in response to your request. If that is too simplistic...then seek the complex. It is a huge universe;). I appreciate your questions, but maybe you need to seek your own answers. Some place to cultivate your faith, that enhances your unique disposition. y.s.

Would you prefer we were robots, with no soul function? Or would you instead be grateful for the gift of life and ever-new awakening? (discussion is nice:))

There is no dysfunction in our independence as spirit. Spirit by nature has this free will. Real independence as minute sparks, is dependence upon the Supreme...surrender. Transcendental reality and personality is different than relative morals etc of the conditioned mind. Projecting morals upon God, or projecting our ideas of what God is from our limited ideas...is not what God is. Man has said for milleniums. Why suffering? Man has also said God not exist, because if God was love suffering would not exist?

Why cant you see the video? We are spirit, and spirit has potency, and potency has independence. We can choose to enjoy seperately from God or to serve God. We are minute therefore are prone to be covered by the maya shakti. If we identify with spirit potency (svarupa shakti), we reconnect to our suitable function (intrinsic constitution). Harmony. Disharmony is due to wishing to be seperate. The real truth is actually Supreme Non-Dual Absolute reality. Yes 'always learning' this world is a prison house to rectify rebellious souls. Affluent people may say, that is nonsense. That this world is for enjoyment. But after their material opulence is used up (as all is temporary here) and suffering comes to a great extent, views may change. So in a sense suffering is mercy. I will post some scripture reference soon.