Beggar

Form for K.C. forums: 1. Why I am not in Maya 1a. Why you are in Maya 2. Why I have the proper understanding of K.C. 2a. Why no one else does except myself and my guru(s) and his followers:deal:

Congratulations on a most excellent post. I think that everyone except GBCvadis will whole heartedly agree with you. Oh and by the way that "everyone" will certainly include Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaja and Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Mahaksadasa Prabhu ki jaya

When we were kids most of us played tag. The person who was "it" had to count to ten with his/her eyes covered. Why?

I listened to the audio recordings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja that became the books published later. The spiritual ecstacy and deep faith I heard (hear) in his voice deeply inspired (inspires) me. My memory is poor so I refer to his books more as a reference tool in relation to the audio recordings. I always felt more inspired hearing Srila Prabhupada's audio recordings for the same reason. I also read his books, but if I only read and don't listen to his audio recordings (classes and bhajans) I become dry. Could it be that different devotees (or aspiring devotees) have different experiences in this realm? (and I don't smoke doobies)

Tempeh and miso are the ways most East Asians consume soybeans. These products are fermented and therefore predigested. In East Asian diets tofu and soymilk are used very occaisionally because they are hard to digest.

Todays forecast: A strong Aparadha front is approaching from the Gulf of Kanistha. When this apraradhic mass enters the Land of Misconception severe reactions are expected. Be sure to protect all fragile bhakti creepers, for there is the possibility of hearing from persons whose creepers have already sufferred extreme damage. Tommorrows Forecast: Gradual clearing stage in those areas that avoided Vaisnava and Guru aparadha.

Oh him again! Thank you so much Mr. Guest Prabhu!

You posted your reply 3 minutes after I posted mine. There is no way that you actually read closely and thought about what I said. I consequently believe that you are not acting in "good faith" and I am hereby requesting Administrator 5 to combine this thread with your previous thread and lock it.I am also request that cbrahma be prohibited from starting threads on this forum.

I think that one of the main reasons people are attacking you so much is your lack of clarity. Most of the posters here are western men who like to compete. Many of these dicsussions are really debates. Its not really possible to debate an issue with someone if they are constantly going off point and even changing the issue mid-stream. Not only that, it drives most people crazy and thats one of the reasons that they (we) are lashing out at you. These are the issues or questions that you are raising, mixing together and jumping back and forth amongst: 1) Can humans approach God directly without an intermediary? 2) Does religious hierarchy, that is organized religion, always lead to repression and oppression? 3) Is there really and omnipotent, omniscient and merciful God? And if so why do bad things happen to good people? 4) Is the God of Israel the only real God and is Jesus Christ His "only begotten son" and the only saviour of all human-kind? And can Jesus be approached directly? Many of the persons that ISKCON (through Prabhupada's preaching) has drawn in are not really Gaudiya Vaisnavas at heart. So much of "preaching" is really just propaganda and not the real cannons of Mahaprabhu's movement. It seems that you are a person captured by the propaganda and now regreting it. Whether or not you want to accept the real precepts of Gaudiya Vaisnavism or return to Christianity is really about your own soul searching and should not be subject to an internet debate. Often those who engage in such a debate are no longer acting in good faith but rather have a grudge or "axe to grind".

Once a politician who died unexpectedly and found himself at the gates of heaven trying to get inside. But St. Peter is puzzled. "I'm not sure this is really where you want to be," he says. "I think you better spend a day in hell, then spend a day up here. After that we'll decide where you belong." With that Peter puts the politician on a down elevator. When the politician reaches the netherworld below, he's astounded to find running fountains, manicured lawns, palm trees, cocktail parties and a championship golf course. A very gracious and smiling fellow, Satan himself is serving the drinks and taking orders for gourmet meals. When the time is up, the politician is genuinely disappointed to leave. Up in heaven again, the politician discovers that all the people float on clouds singing alleluias and playing harps. It's restful and peaceful but kind of dull. "Look," the politician says to Peter. "I can't believe I'd ever say this, but I really think I'd be a lot of more satisfied in hell." "Done," says St. Peter, and puts him back on the elevator. This time, when the door opens, the politician finds himself in a barren wasteland, his friends dressed in rags and gathering garbage, the devil in horns and poking people with his trident. "What is going on?" the politician cries. "Where are the drinks, the golf course, the tuxedos, the appetizers, the banquet orders?" "Ah," the devil says. "That was yesterday. Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted.":crazy:

Ecswuse me but did cbrahma just say he was Luciferian? And if he doesn't know who's burnng in Hell, why doesn't he just ask his good buddy?

Tell it to the victims of the Holocost. Tell it to the victims of Stalin. Stop slinging meaningless phrases. Why don't just come out with it and blame God for all the apparent unjustified misery in this world? What the Hell does it have to do with diksa? Did the Jews in Germany and Europe take diksa from Hitler? Are you against all forms of hierarchy? I'm sick of your ignorant and thoughtless posts.

In the above quote you clearly blame others for your loss of interest in chanting. No speculation, Babba, your words are clear. If your faith is broken don't try to break the faith of others. "Every wave is a favorable wave" - Sridhar Maharhaja. "I am a faith maker not a faith breaker" - Sridhar Maharaja

Stop Global Whining!

Use a gun - Go to jail Have physical proximity to a pure devotee - become a clown IT'S THE LAW!

<table><tbody><tr><td>Canto 4: Creation of the Fourth Order</td><td class="m">Chapter 7: The Sacrifice Performed by Dakṣa</td></tr></tbody></table>Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.7.6 maitreya uvāca tadā sarvāṇi bhūtāni śrutvā mīḍhuṣṭamoditam parituṣṭātmabhis tāta sādhu sādhv ity athābruvan SYNONYMS maitreyaḥ — the sage Maitreya; uvāca — said; tadā — at that time; sarvāṇi — all; bhūtāni — personalities; śrutvā — after hearing; mīḍhuḥ-tama — the best of the benedictors (Lord Śiva); uditam — spoken by; parituṣṭa — being satisfied; ātmabhiḥ — by heart and soul; tāta — my dear Vidura; sādhu sādhu — well done, well done; iti — thus; atha abruvan — as we have said. TRANSLATION The great sage Maitreya said: My dear Vidura, all the personalities present were very much satisfied in heart and soul upon hearing the words of Lord Śiva, who is the best among the benedictors. PURPORT In this verse Lord Śiva is described as mīḍhuṣṭama, the best of the benedictors. He is also known as Āśutoṣa, which indicates that he is very quickly satisfied and very quickly angered. It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that less intelligent persons go to the demigods for material benedictions. In this connection, people generally go to Lord Śiva, and because he is always quickly satisfied and gives benedictions to his devotees without consideration, he is called mīḍhuṣṭama, or the best of the benedictors. Materialistic persons are always anxious to get material profit, but they are not serious about spiritual profit. Sometimes, of course, it so happens that Lord Śiva becomes the best benedictor in spiritual life. It is said that once a poor brāhmaṇa worshiped Lord Śiva for a benediction, and Lord Śiva advised the devotee to go to see Sanātana Gosvāmī. The devotee went to Sanātana Gosvāmī and informed him that Lord Śiva had advised him to seek out the best benediction from him (Sanātana). Sanātana had a touchstone with him, which he kept with the garbage. On the request of the poor brāhmaṇa, Sanātana Gosvāmī gave him the touchstone, and the brāhmaṇa was very happy to have it. He now could get as much gold as he desired simply by touching the touchstone to iron. But after he left Sanātana, he thought, "If a touchstone is the best benediction, why has Sanātana Gosvāmī kept it with the garbage?" He therefore returned and asked Sanātana Gosvāmī, "Sir, if this is the best benediction, why did you keep it with the garbage?" Sanātana Gosvāmī then informed him, "Actually, this is not the best benediction. But are you prepared to take the best benediction from me?" The brāhmaṇa said, "Yes, sir. Lord Śiva has sent me to you for the best benediction." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī asked him to throw the touchstone in the water nearby and then come back. The poor brāhmaṇa did so, and when he returned, Sanātana Gosvāmī initiated him with the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Thus by the benediction of Lord Śiva the brāhmaṇa got the association of the best devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa and was thus initiated in the mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

In Prabhupada's case I think you will agree that he did not have a material (stool-bag) body, rather it only appeared like that from the superficial position.

Why stir up the dung all the time? We see the truth in a particular way. We are all conditioned so we want reassurance of our little reality. When we don't get it we try to influence or control others to come to our way of thinking. I do it too, and I'm addicted to it. But you know, sometimes it gets old unlike the Holy Name of Krsna which is ever fresh. Unfortunately I have no realization of that so I have no attraction for Krsna Nama. But instead of following the instructions of the saints as a remedy, I just take out my frustrations on others and try to control. Such is the disease of material consciousness.

I'm just saying that all the devotees on all sides of this ongoing debate would agree with Guruvani's post and become very happy (by reading the post) if he left out his attack on the "vapuvadis". Tis the season to be jolly and not attack the vapuvadis tra la la la la, la la la la! (Wait a minute are you sure that was non-alchoholic soynog?)

Suppose, the only post you gave on this thread was #1 and you edited out this: Every devotee and aspiring devotee would have to agree with you and relish what you wrote and quoted. But noooooooooo, you have to write: ...and flip out every practioner who has a living siksa or diksa guru. Or are you suggesting say that the followers of Guru "A" (for example) turn down their guru's invitation to meet with them and snuggle up to a good sastric book on a warm night with a cup of hot milk or soynog? Roasting chestnuts before an open fire? What are you saying that the Vapuvadis are offenders at the feet of St. Nick? Do your kids get presents from Santa Claus from his books or does he have to come down the chimney to deliver them? I hope you are not one of those who speculate that Santa Claus is in santa rasa. Actually there is no sastric evidence of this. Also be careful driving around the roads and highways of Alachua and surrounding counties. There are many young adult and teenage children of devotees driving their vehicles under the influence of alchohol. Sad but true. Merry Krishnamas and a Happy Blue Krishna Year!

Say homeboy, what if Prabhupada posed as Srimati Radharani for one of his artists in the old days? I don't know one way or the other but if you are wrong then you get the reaction for that offense even if you didn't mean it. I wouldn't say anything like that unless I knew for sure.

Guruvani, Did you hold this position when you were helping Sudhir Maharaja print the Guardian of Devotion books in California? Sudhir M. told me in 1984, "that if there is a difference between Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja then I take the side of Sridhar Maharaja." I didn't say anything to him but I was stunned.

Organized Religion by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Sri Krishna manifests His eternal birth, the pure cognitive essence of the serving soul who is located above all mundane limitations. King Kamsa [the demon king who wanted to kill Lord Krishna] is the typical empiricist, ever on the lookout for the appearance of the truth for the purpose of suppressing Him before He has time to develop. This is no exaggeration of the real connotation of the consistent empiric position. The materialist has a natural repugnance for the transcendent. He is disposed to link that faith in the incomprehensible is the parent of dogmatism and hypocrisy in the guise of religion. He is also equally under the delusion that there is no real dividing line between the material and the spiritual. He is strengthened in his delusion by the interpretation of scriptures by persons who are like-minded with himself. This includes all the lexicographic interpreters. The lexicographical interpretation is upheld by Kamsa as the real scientific explanation of the scriptures, and is perfectly in keeping with his dread of and aversion for the transcendental. These lexicographical interpreters are employed by Kamsa in putting down the first suspected appearance of any genuine faith in the transcendental. King Kamsa knows very well that if the faith in the transcendental is once allowed to grow it is sure to upset all his empiric prospects. There is historical ground for such misgivings. Accordingly if the empiric domination is to be preserved in tact it would be necessary not to lose a moment to put down the transcendental heresy the instant it threatens to make its appearance in earnest. King Kamsa, acting on this traditional fear, is never slow to take the scientific precaution of deputing empiric teachers of the scriptures, backed by the resources of dictionary and grammar and all empiric subtleties to put down, by the show of specious arguments based on hypothetical principles, the true interpretation of the eternal religion revealed by the scriptures. Kamsa is strongly persuaded that faith in the transcendental can be effectively put down by empiricism if prompt and decisive measures are adopted at the very outset. He attributes the failure of atheism in the past to the neglect of the adoption of such measures before the theistic fallacy has had time to spread among the fanatical masses. But Kamsa is found to count without his host. When Krishna is born, He is found to be able to upset all sinister designs against those who are apprized by Himself of His advent. The apparently causeless faith displayed by persons irrespective of age, sex and condition may confound all rabid empiricists who are on principle adverse to the Absolute Truth Whose appearance is utterly incompatible with the domination of empiricism. But no adverse efforts of the empiricists whose rule seems till then to be perfectly well-established over the minds of the deluded souls of this world can dissuade any person from exclusively following the Truth when He actually manifests His birth in the pure cognitive essence of the soul. Putana [the demoness who tried to kill Krishna] is the slayer of all infants. The baby, when he or she comes out of the mother's womb, falls at once into the hands of the pseudo-teachers of religion. These teachers are successful in forestalling the attempts of the good preceptor whose help is never sought by the atheists of this world at the baptism of their babies. This is ensured by the arrangements of all established churches of the world. They have been successful only in supplying watchful Putanas for effecting the spiritual destruction of persons from the moment of their birth with cooperation of their worldly parents. No human contrivance can prevent these Putanas from obtaining possession of their pulpits. This is due to the general prevalence of atheistic disposition in the people of this world. The church that has the best chance of survival in this damned world is that of atheism under the convenient guise of theism. The churches have always proved the staunchest upholders of the grossest form of worldliness from which even the worst of non-ecclesiastical criminals are found to recoil. It is not from any deliberate opposition to the ordained clergy that these observations are made. The original purpose of the established churches of the world may not always be objectionable. But no stable religious arrangement for instructing the masses has yet been successful. The Supreme Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in pursuance of the teachings of the scriptures enjoins all absence of conventionalism for the teachers of the eternal religion. It does not follow that the mechanical adoption of the unconventional life by any person will make him a fit teacher of religion. Regulation is necessary for controlling the inherent worldliness of conditioned souls. But no mechanical regulation has any value, even for such a purpose. The bona-fide teacher of religion is neither any product of, nor the favourer of, any mechanical system. In his hands no system has likewise the chance of denigrating into a lifeless arrangement. The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy. The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher. The people of this world understand preventive systems, they have no idea at all of the unprevented positive eternal life. Neither can there be any earthy contrivance for the permanent preservation of the life eternal on this mundane plane on the popular scale. Those are, therefore, greatly mistaken who are disposed to look forward to the amelioration of the worldly state in any worldly sense from the worldly success of any really spiritual movement. It is these worldly expectants who become the patrons of the mischievous race of the pseudo-teachers of religion, the Putanas, whose congenial function is to stifle the theistic disposition at the very moment of its suspected appearance. But the theistic disposition can never be stifled by the efforts of those Putanas. The Putanas have power only over the atheist. It is a thankless but salutary task which they perform for the benefit of their unwilling victims. But as soon as theistic disposition proper makes its appearance in the pure cognitive essence of the awakened soul, the Putanas are decisively silenced at the very earliest stage of their encounter with the new-born Krishna. The would-be slayer of herself slain. This is the reward of the negative services that the Putanas unwittingly render to the cause of theism by strangling all hypocritical demonstrations against their own hypocrisy. But Putana does not at all like to receive her reward in only form which involves the total destruction of her wrong personality. King Kamsa also does not like to lose the services of the most trusted of his agents. The effective silencing of the whole race of pseudo-teachers of religion is the first clear indication of the appearance of the Absolute on the mundane plane. The bona-fide teacher of the Absolute, heralds the Advent of Krishna by his uncompromising campaign against the pseudo-teachers of religion.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Uttar Pradesha. From every mountainside in New Vrndavana, let freedom ring. And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every math and every temple, we will be able to speed up that day when all of Krsna's children, ISKCON devotees and Rtviks, Govinda Maharaja devotees and Sahajiyas, Auls and Bauls, will be able to join hands and sing "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!":)

Forget ISKCON. It's GONE, going on 30 yrs. Discuss the principles and concepts.