Beggar

What came first? The chicken or the egg? (And it's OK to use this analogy as long as you don't eat them). What comes first: winter, spring, summer or fall? (I know, I know, "...all you have do is just call"). Anyway you get the drift. Bhakta PPPAAALLLeeeeaaaassse!

We were talk'in about Super Soul XXVII. Of course there are unlimited Super Souls. No expansion has ever made it to the Super Soul in it's first year. Although two expansions were just one step away in their second year back in the '90s.

"Pakhana"? What is that? Is it Yiddish for parikrama?

The most auspicious Super Soul ever, "How 'bout them Cowherd Boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

<center><tt>Sri Guru & His Grace </tt>Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Deva Goswami Chapter One </center> <center> <tt>Surrender to Sri Guru</tt> </center> Even great scholars are perplexed in understanding what is good and what is bad, what to accept, and what to dismiss (kim karma kim akarmeti kavayo'py atra mohitah). Even great scholars fail to understand their real necessity. This material world is a jungle of perplexities, where the soul has accepted so many different kinds of bodies in different types of consciousness. In the Laws of Manu, it is written: <center> jalaja nava laksani sthavara laksa vimsati krmayo rudra-sankhyakah paksinam dasa laksanam trimsal laksani pasavah catur laksani manusah </center> There are 900,000 kinds of aquatics, 2,000,000 kinds of trees and plants, 1,100,000 kinds of insects and reptiles, 1,000,000 kinds of birds, 3,000,000 kinds of four-legged beasts, and 400,000 kinds of human species. Manu says that the trees are in such a hopeless position as a result of their own karma. Their feelings of pain and pleasure are similar to ours; their souls are not of a lower standard. Still, they are in such a deplorable position as a result of their own karma. They have no one to blame but themselves. This is the state of affairs in this external world. We are living in an environment which is afflicted with serious misconception, misunderstanding, misguidance, and misbehavior. How are we to ascertain what is good and what is bad, what we should aspire after and what we should reject? Innumerable alternatives have thronged in a crowd, coming to influence us. And when this area, covered by illusion and influenced by misunderstanding, is filled with such diversity, how can we hope to know the infinite spiritual world of Vaikuntha? With what attitude should we approach that realm which is transcendental, beyond the realm of the senses and mind (adhoksaja). The Genuine Guru We must accept any way and any alliance that will help us gain entrance into that realm. We shall try to have even the slightest connection with that perfect goal of our innate aspiration. We are helpless; we are hopeless in the midst of disappointment. We are in extreme danger. We rely on our free will, our capacity of selection for our own good, but it is too minute and helpless to guide us. What danger we are in! All around us are witnesses to this danger. How important is a real guru who can guide us to our real welfare. We are in the midst of different forces that are drawing us, attracting us towards different directions, so proper guidance is the most valuable and the most important thing for all of us. If we accept direction from anywhere and everywhere, we will be misguided. Therefore, we must be careful to get proper direction. That direction has been given by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita: <center> tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinah </center> "To understand transcendental knowledge, you must approach a self-realized soul, accept him as your spiritual master, and take initiation from him. Inquire submissively and render service unto him. Self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you, for they have seen the truth." Qualifications of a Disciple Here, Krsna has given us the standard by which we can understand what is what, from a bona fide source. The standard to measure truth or untruth must come not from a vitiated, vulnerable plane, but from a real plane. And to realize that, we must have these three qualifications: pranipat, pariprasna, and seva. Pranipat means we must surrender to this knowledge, for it is not an ordinary class of knowledge, which as a subject we can make our object; it is supersubjective. We may be the subjects in this mundane world, but we will have to become objects to be handled by the superknowledge of that plane. Pranipat means that one approaches a spiritual master, saying, "I am finished with the experience of this external world; I have no charrn for anything in this plane, where I have already traveled. Now I am offering myself exclusively at your altar. I want to have your grace." In this mood we should approach that higher knowledge. Pariprasna means honest, sincere inquiry. We must inquire not with the tendency of discussion or in the mood of argument, but all our efforts should be concentrated in a positive line to understand the truth, without the spirit of doubt and suspicion. With full attention we should try to understand that truth, because it is coming from a higher plane of reality that we have never known. Finally, there is sevaya, or service. This is the most important thing. We are trying to gain this knowledge not so we can get the help of that plane, not so we can utilize that experience for living here; rather we must give our pledge to serve that plane. Only with this attitude may we approach that plane of knowledge. We shall serve that higher knowledge; we won't try to make it serve us. Otherwise, we won't be allowed to enter into that domain. Absolute knowledge won't come to serve this lower plane. We must offer ourselves to be used by Him, not that we shall try to use Him in our own selfish way, to satisfy our lower purpose. With the mood of service we shall dedicate ourselves to Him; not that He will dedicate Himself to satisfy our lower animal purpose. So, with this attitude we shall seek the plane of real knowledge and receive the standard understanding. And then we can know what is what, and have a proper estimation of our environment. This is Vedic culture. Absolute knowledge has always been imparted by this process alone, and never by the intellectual approach. Srlla Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta used to give the analogy of the bee: honey is in a bottle, the cork is in place, and the bee has taken his seat on the glass. He tries to taste the honey by licking the bottle. But, just as the bee cannot taste the honey by licking the outside of the glass bottle, the intellect cannot approach the world of spirit. We may think that we have attained it, but that is not possible: a barrier is there, like the glass. Intellectual achievement is not real achievement of higher knowledge. Only through faith, sincerity, and dedication can we approach that higher realm, and become a member. We can enter that higher plane only if they grant us a visa and admit us. Then we can enter that land of divine living. So, a candidate must have these three qualifications before he can approach the truth which is on the higher plane of Absolute Reality. He can approach the Absolute Truth only with an attitude of humility, sincerity, and dedication. There are similar statements in the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Vedas. In the Upanisads it is said, tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit panih srotriyam brahma nistham: "Approach a spiritual master. Do not go to him hesitatingly or haphazardly, but with a clear and earnest heart." Spintual Life-a One Way Ticket One should not approach the spiritual master "cutting a return ticket." Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada used to always say, "You have come here cutting a return ticket." We must not approach the spiritual master with that attitude. Rather, we should think that we have seen everything, that we have full experience of this mortal world, and that we have nothing to aspire after here. With this clear consciousness, we should approach the guru. That is the only way for us to live. This world is mortal. There is no means, no possibility of living here, and yet the will to live is an innate tendency everywhere. "I only want to live and to save myself. I am running to the real shelter." With this earnestness, the disciple will bring his spiritual master the necessary materials for sacrifice. He won't go to his spiritual master only to trouble the guru, but will approach him with his own necessities already supplied. He will go there with his own bed and baggage. Not that he will show some kindness to the spiritual master and give him name and fame by becoming his disciple. And what will be the spiritual master's position? He will be well versed in the revealed truth, not in ordinary information. Revelation in many shades has been spread in the world from the upper realm, but the guru must have some spacious, graphic knowledge. He must have extensive knowledge about the revealed truth. And he must always be practicing real spiritual life. His activities are all connected with spirit, not with the mundane world. He is concerned with Brahman, the plane which can accomodate everything, the fundamental basis of everything (brahma-nistham). Not that he is leading his life with any mortal, mundane reference. He always lives in the transcendental plane and keeps himself in connection with that plane his whole life. Whatever he does, he will do only with that consciousness. This is the version of the Upanisads. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.3.21) it is said: <center> tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany upasamasrayam </center> Maya means misconception. We are living in the midst of misconception. Our understanding of the environment is based on a completely misconceived set of ideas and thoughts. We have no proper conception of anything in the absolute sense. Our ideas are all relative. Provincial selfishness has been imposed on the environment, and we are living under that misconception. When one comes to the conclusion that everything will vanish, then, with that mood, he will feel the necessity of approaching the guru, the divine guide and preceptor, with the purpose of inquiry. "What is the highest good for me?" With this inquiry, he will approach the spiritual master. And who will he approach? One who is not only well-versed in the precepts of the revealed scriptures, but who has also come in contact with the revealed truth. One who is conversant with the very object of the scriptures, and who has practical experience, who is established in pure consciousness, is a genuine guru. One should approach such a guide for his own relief, to understand what is the highest benefit in the world and how to attain it. This is necessary. It is real. It is not imaginary. At the same time, it is difficult. The Absolute Truth must be sought out through a real process, otherwise we shall go the wrong way and then say, "Oh, there is nothing here; it is not real." So, only if we follow this real process of understanding the truth will we experience the real nature of divinity.next index return

PMAMHO AGTSP Well now the game is over and I realize that I was just chewing the chewed. Actually I only watched the game for preaching purposes. In fact I'm doing a study of the NFL to see how an efficient organization operates. Soon I will be making my report to the GBC. I think it will be good for the GBC to learn how to sack the oppostion. Jaya:crazy:

Yes Prabhus today is Super Soul Sunday. Instead of watching the Super Bowl (American Maya) we can glorify the Supersoul on this Super Soul Sunday. Jaya Super Soul!!!! I lied, time for the game! I know... I'm a worm in the stool.

Here's a good example of how some persons holding "a superficial aquaintance with Krsna Consciousness" relate the absolute ideal to their failed experiences in the mundane and relative world.

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja: …This weeping or crying is required. Unless the child cries the mother will not run and the child cannot get the mother's breast. Similarly, unless you cry, how can you get the darsana of Sri Guru? When the child cries, the mother runs to him. Similarly, although the guru may be in some other part of the world, when the disciple cries the guru runs there. Sri Guru is karuna-maya, he is causelessly merciful. Thus whether he is manifest or unmanifest he gives darsana to his disciple. He may also come in a dream to give his darsana. This guru-tattva is nitya-tattva— an eternal transcendental tattva. It is eternally prakata, manifest. It is not aprakata, unmanifest. There is no question of guru-tattva becoming unmanifest. This sri-guru-carana is inconceivable. It cannot be understood through one's material knowledge, intelligence, or merit.

Here we go again with definitions. In one scenerio one is reading the sadhu's words in book form and considering surrendering. In another scenario the sadhu is twisting our ear and telling us not to be a nonsense. If one is very advanced all they need is their gurus books and some help from Caitya guru. The average devotee needs a big slap from guru deva and sometimes maybe some words of encouragement.

It seems that the disagreement comes down to different definitions of vani and vapu. Maybe both of you could clarify this.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja: "The innermost hankering of every living soul is for beauty, love, affection, and harmony; not for power, knowledge, or anything else. This is the diagnosis of the whole creation in time and space: their common cause is one. But it is rare for a soul to reach such a clear stage of hankering for reality as to understand this point. Few souls are to be found in this world who are really conscious of their innermost necessity, who realize, "We want Krsna! We want Vrndavana!" Such sincere souls are not easily found." "An intellectual understanding of Krsna consciousness is impossible. Just as a bee cannot taste honey by licking the outside of a glass jar, one cannot enter the domain of higher spirit through the intellect. Only by service will Krsna be satisfied and come down, only then will we be able to understand the nature of higher plane. This is Vedic knowledge. "We are tatastha-sakti, marginal potency, and if we want to know any truth about higher reality, we must realize that it is more subtle than our existence, it is super-subjective: It can touch us, but we cannot climb up to that domain out of our own sweet will. Only if we are given the grace which can take us up can we go. "One who has this understanding will be able to combat all the existing intellectualists. The intellect has no capacity to enter into the higher subjective area. That supreme truth is atindriya-manasagocarah: beyond the plane of the senses, mind, and intellect. This expression manaso vapuso vaco vaibhavam tava gocarah by Brahma, admitting to Krsna that He was beyond the reach of his body, mind, and words, was not only a lip-deep statement of the mouth. If we want to know the absolute truth, the only condition for realizing Him is a submissive attitude. In that way, He may be satisfied with our attempt and reveal Himself to us. Divine revelation is not a matter of research within this world–we should have a sincere heart to serve. Srimad Bhagavatam (7.5.30) it is written: matir na krsne paratah svato va mitho bhipadyeta grha-vratanam adanta-gobirvisatam tamisram punah punas carvita-carvananam "Srimad-Bhagavatam tells us that we can try to enter the world of higher reality through intellectualism, but we will again come back, baffled in our attempts. If we try to press with our intelligence to enter into that domain, we will come back dissatisfied in despair and will wander here within this mortal world again and again. sreyah srtim bhaktim udasya te vibho klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam "O Lord, those who want to have a clear conception of You through their intellect find their attempts useless. Their endeavors end only in frustration, like those who try to beat rice from an empty husk." (Bhag. 10.14.4) <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='position:absolute; left:0;text-align:left;margin-left:-90pt;margin-top:-247.7pt;width:69pt; height:69.75pt;z-index:1;mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0; mso-wrap-distance-right:0;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0; mso-position-horizontal:absolute;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text; mso-position-vertical:absolute;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MARTIN/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:title="vaik2"/> <w:wrap type="square"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_s1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='position:absolute;left:0;text-align:left; margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:7.5pt;height:77.25pt;z-index:2; mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;mso-wrap-distance-right:0; mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0;mso-position-horizontal:left; mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/MARTIN/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" o:title="dot_clear"/> <w:wrap type="square"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->"So jnana, knowledge, is like an empty husk. Energy and knowledge are only outer aspects. The real substance, the rice, is devotion–love. That is the tasteful thing within. Other things are covers (jnana-karmady-anavrtam). But what is within the cover is tasteful, eternal, auspicious, and beautiful: satyam, sivam, sundaram. Beauty is reality, ecstasy is reality; everything else is only an outer cover - with the cover, we cannot get the substance within. Then our life becomes a disappointment:." (Srila Sridhar Maharaja) <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Srila Sridhar Maharaja: “This is Vedic culture. Absolute knowledge has always been imparted by this process alone, and never by the intellectual approach. Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur) used to give the analogy of the bee: honey is in a bottle, the cork is in place, and the bee has taken his seat on the glass. He tries to taste the honey by licking the bottle. But, just as the bee cannot taste the honey by licking the outside of the glass bottle, the intellect cannot approach the world of spirit. We may think that we have attained it, but that is not possible: a barrier is there, like the glass. Intellectual achievement is not real achievement of higher knowledge. Only through faith, sincerity, and dedication can we approach that higher realm, and become a member. We can enter that higher higher plane only if they grant us a visa and admit us. Then we can enter that land of divine living.”

"mathala hari jana kirtana range/pujala raga patha gaurava bhange This is the very gist of Bhaktisiddhanta vani" Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaha

έξοχη ψυχή: BG 15,17: Εκτός από αυτά τα δύο, υπάρχει η μέγιστη προσωπικότητα διαβίωσης, η ανώτατη ψυχή, ο άφθαρτος Λόρδος Himself, ο οποίος έχει εισαγάγει τους τρεις κόσμους και τα διατηρεί. It's all Greek to me.

Upon reading this the dejected Mortimer C. Beggar slinked off towards his worm hole to lick his wounds.

One time when he was only in the Gaudiya Math for a few years one of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's college friends came to see him at a math. His friend asked him, "You have been wearing these red rags now for several years now, what have you learned?" Srila Sridhar Maharaja replied, "I have learned that everything that Vivekananda and Rama Krsna has taught is wrong". His friend was "mortified" and immediately left the math.

I will now speak on my own level: Yum this stuff sure tastes good. Wait a minute who's that other worm over there and what' he doing in my...

This is a very complex question. There definitely is an injunction not to take too many disciples but its the reasons that are complex. One time Prabhupada said that he was ill due to the previous sinful activities of his disciples. The question is whether we are to see the guru in that way or not? In his humility he was seeing himself like this. But his followers are seeing that he is so great that this is not possible. But still we are thinking that we must be very strict as to not burden gurudeva. Certainly a kannistha or even low madhyama guru should not take too many disciples. But Srila Prabhupada in "Nectar of Instruction" teaches that one should take an uttama adhikari guru. Anyway I'm sure that someone can give you a better answer.

This is all very tricky. "The Bhagavad Gita As It Is" is really more than Bhagavad Gita. It contains the conception of Sri Caityanya Mahaprabhu. Prabhupada is very much in that conception and the conception that Mahaprabhu came to give, "anarpita carim carat karunyayava tirna kalau..." So within his subjective highly evolved consciousness he is setting the example of seeing Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead everywhere. But from an objective standpoint Ksirodaksayai Visnu is the part of the part of the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna who is the son of Nanda Maharaja. Also, it is not Ksirodaksayi Visnu who resides in the heart of a suddha bhakti, pure devotee in Mahaprabhu's like Srila Prabhupada but rather the Supreme Personality of Godhead, svayam bhagavan, Sri Krsna who always has Srimati Radharani by his side.

I've never been attracted to reading his books. What can I say. OK I'll try to be less prejudiced.

Sorry for my attitude Guest3. TM's books are kind of out there and maybe S.Goswami M was just trying to warn others. Also S. Goswami M is under the guidance of a more senior person and he (S. Goswami M) is doing good in sannyasa, and preaching in Russia and other places. And what am I doing: blabbering on the internet. Dayal Nitai

The bad blood between Sudhira Goswami Maharaja and Tripurari Maharaja really goes back to 1986 when TM opened his temple in San Francisco. TM's temple was supported by t-shirt and sweat shirt sales (donations). Sudhira's San Jose temple did a lot of standard collecting at DMVs and the Airport but they also did some spots in S.F. with the t-shirt/sweat shirt business. TM's men basically muscled in on all the spots and there was hardly anything left for San Jose. Sudhira Goswami M. was fuming mad and there were all kinds of fireworks between them. I've seen TM's books and lets just say I can't read them. But Sudhira Goswami M. really should leave it alone. What can you say after almost a decade on the streets in the gutter of illicit activites? At least get your facts straight before you go on your "Holy" Crusade.

So why, Mister lead singer of The Guest Whos, cast your pearls before swine? Why put up a NM article that says that its not for "ordinary devotees" on this forum so "ordinary devotees" can start using it for target practice?

Help I'm merging into CNN!