Beggar

Very insightful point you are making Shakti-fan. Back in the early '40s when Srila Keshava Maharaja and Srila Sridhar Maharaja were working cooperatively and then they went their separate ways, the split must have been deeper than most think. From that time on there must have been some hostility simmering below the surface and then the Rathayatra exchanges began to involve their leading disciples in the matter. From that point on it seems to have become magnified by rhetoric. Yet if you really look at it objectively, the criticism by Srila Swami Maharaja Prabhupada that "Sridhar Maharaja and another man were responsible for the breakup of the Gaudiya Math" is a much stronger and loaded statement. Yet because of the love between Sridhar Maharaja and Swami Maharaja Prabhupada, Sridhar Maharaja chose to disegard it. If you remember a couple of months ago Muralidhar Prabhu of the SCSM Australia, brought this up on Audarya and even wrote that Swami Maharaja Prabhupada was "offensive".

Actually he opposed it anywhere but Puri Dhama, feeling that it was inappropriate. But in Nabadwip he clearly saw it as a rasa bhasa. In another entirlely different context, Sridhar Maharaj said, "he (Swami Maharaja Prabhupada) even abused me in his preaching campaign" and chuckled about it. Who can know the hearts and minds of great devotees other than other great devotees?

"Dayal Nitai, Dayal Nitai, Nitai Gaura Haribol, Nitai Gaura Haribol, Nitai Gaura Haribol! High talks mad talks. And where are we? Nitai Gaura Haribol, Nitai Gaura Haribol, Nitai Gaura Haribol!" Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar-dev Goswami Maharaja

I have heard that at the SCSM that they chant all the Bengali verses of Caitanya Caritamrta, but when they come upon a very confidential part they just chant the verse and there is no class on it. Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that he was even more conservative than Srila Saraswati Thakur. He was certainly more conservative on some of these issues than Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

If I remember correctly, the first volume of the Caitanya Caritamrta was sometimes distributed in the airports during the manifest lila of Srila Prabhupada. I guess that he had the same kind of "curse", just on a worldwide, grand scale.

"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice". Barry Goldwater (Whoops!, wrong philosophy!)

Obviously 1 + 2 = 3 and so on, and so forth, and scooby..."Numerology is abominable" Mortimer C. Beggar P.S. And so is gemology

Sri Sri Prapanna-jivanamrta The Life-Nectar of the Surrendered Souls Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhar-deva Goswami Maharaja Srila Sridhar Maharaja summarizes: Despite thousands of personal defects a devotee can never check his desire for the Lord' service--- Uncultured, mean, fickle-minded, envious, ungrateful, proud, subservient to lust, deceitful, hard-hearted, and sinful am I. O Lord, how will I ever be able to cross this insurmountable ocean of misery and attain to the service of Your lotus feet? ---Sri Yamunacarya

1 + 0 + 8 = 9. 9 is very auspicious and mystical. 3 times 3 = 9. 3 modes of material nature, 3 levels of devotional adhikaras. Etc. But material reality is duality. If we focus on the dualist poles we are stuck in duality but the transcendent Vedic conception instead focuses on the transitional synthesis. Thesis, antithesis and synthesis: The Hegelian triad that Sridhar Maharaja was so very fond.

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada: "Material life is such that due to indulgence in illicit sex, gambling, intoxication and meat-eating, the conditioned soul is always in a dangerous condition. Meat-eating and intoxication excite the senses more and more, and the conditioned soul falls victim to women. In order to keep women, money is required, and to acquire money, one begs, borrows or steals. Indeed, he commits abominable acts that cause him to suffer both in this life and in the next. Consequently illicit sex must be stopped by those who are spiritually inclined or who are on the path of spiritual realization. Many devotees fall down due to illicit sex. They may steal money and even fall down from the highly honored renounced order. Then for a livelihood they accept menial services and become beggars. It is therefore said in the sastras, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham: materialism is based on sex, whether licit or illicit. Sex is full of dangers even for those who are addicted to household life. Whether one has a license for sex or not, there is great trouble. Bahu-duhkha-bhak: after one indulges in sex, many volumes of miseries ensue. One suffers more and more in material life. A miserly person cannot properly utilize the wealth he has, and similarly a materialistic person misuses the human form. Instead of using it for spiritual emancipation, he uses the body for sense gratification. Therefore he is called a miser." Srimad-Bhagavatam 5:14:22 Purport

abominable <cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)</cite> - Cite This Source <!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> a·bom·i·na·ble /əˈbɒmənəbəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-bom-uh-nuh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">repugnantly hateful; detestable; loathsome: an abominable crime. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">2.</td><td valign="top">very unpleasant; disagreeable: The weather was abominable last week. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">3.</td><td valign="top">very bad, poor, or inferior: They have abominable taste in clothes. </td></tr></tbody></table> <hr class="ety">[Origin: 1325–75; ME < L abōminābilis, equiv. to abōminā(rī) to pray to avert an eventuality, despise as a bad omen, abhor (see ab-, omen) + Look at definition 3, "or inferior". Don't you think that someone who had realized they were not their body would view sex as an "inferior" pleasure?

Are you sure you all are not splitting hairs? Maybe, its an argument over semantics. Good quotes are being brought forth, but the attitudes behind it seem a little weird to me. I mean its not like somebody's going to come onto this thread and become ecstatic. Also any one who wants to beg must pay royalties to me.

Shazam!?!?!?!?!!!

Back in the early '90s there was something going on in Tripurari Maharaja's camp and several of his disciples defected to Govinda Maharaja.

This is very true. But if you do strike out, a word of warning, never argue balls and strikes with Paramatma. I think that's what happened to me, I was ejected from the real devotional game...NOT!!! Balderdash and bulldung! The only way to be ejected is Vaishnava aparadha! Also the best home run hitters often have the highest rate of strike outs because they usually swing for the fence.

At least they know the Hare Krsnas are here, and have been here for the last 41 years. And if its gotten that far, then watch out cause its not going anywhere for a long. long time. Face it.

One time Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja was asked about Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's apparently contradictory statement about topics such as the origin of the soul. He replied that sometimes for the sake of pravacana (preaching), "siddhanta (devotional conclusions) may be crossed".

Here's a classic "Prabhupada said": Guru Krpa to Srila Prabhupada, “Oh Prabhupada, the karmis are in so much maya.” Srila Prabhupada: “Never mind the karmis, you are in maya.”

I still wondering if this is some kind of Freudian Slip: "the Supreme Lord Nityananda Prabhu, deliverer of allah". ... "deliverer of allah"? Isn't Allah capitalized? Sounds kind of Islamic to me. Oh and Admin. 5, leave this one on, please... pretty please:)

Follow the Angels The Path of Dedication Swami B. R. Sridhara Maharaja Part of Try To Go Ahead The negative cannot exist without the positive, and so too the positive cannot exist without the negative. In the words of our Guru Maharaja, Radha and Krsna are the predominated and predominating Moieties. Two Moieties-two halves of the one whole. One predominated and one predominating, but both have equal importance in their existence. One cannot stand without the other, and the fullest expression of this principle is Radha-Govinda. Our mantra, our guru-parampara, the Rupanuga-Sampradaya, all point towards this principle. In support of this we find dasya-rasa, sakhya-rasa vatsalya-rasa, and others. But the principal direction is towards madhurya-rasa. They are leading us to the full rasa. All others are partial, subordinate and subservient-supplemental to the main rasa, madhurya-rasa. But that supplemental service is also necessary. Madhurya-rasa does not stand alone. It must have its paraphernalia: the friends, the parents, all must be there with this rasa. Those who have an inner liking for such rasa are so fortunate! Vasudeva Datta has said, yadi gaura na ha'ta, tabe ki haita, kemane dharitam de radhara mahima, prema-rasa-sima, jagate janata ke? "If Mahaprabhu had not appeared then how could we sustain our lives? How could we live? What type of ecstatic rasa has He imbibed that we have been able to have a little taste? Without this our lives would be impossible. Who else could take us to the acme of realization of the position of Srimati Radharani? She is the greatest victim to the consuming capacity of Sri Krsna. She stands as the greatest sacrifice before Krsna's infinite consuming power. Rasaraja-Mahabhava—the rasa is there, and She is the drawer of that rasa from the storehouse. She has such negative capacity that She can draw out the rasa to the highest degree both in quality and quantity."

I was just trying to give you the idea that its OK to criticize a fault as phenomena but it's not OK to criticize individual devotees for that would be fault finding. Therefore no names.

Yes, Joseph Goebbels the Nazi Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda made much propaganda but wasn't very enlightened himself. His sharp tongue made him enemies within the Nazi Party where some called him the "Poison Dwarf". However, except for issues involving his marriage, he had Hitler’s support. Goebbels was a notorious womaniser and his wife wanted to divorce him after one liaison too many. Hitler refused to give his permission for a divorce as he had spent much time cultivating the importance of family values to the German public. How could he tolerate a senior figure in the Nazi Party presenting such a poor example? However, it is known that Goebbels was told by Hitler to change his ways.

One could say, " my gurudeva was so merciful to me that he revealed to me in a vision that he is not a person of this world. Yet despite this I am still so fallen that I am not yet fullfiling his divine orders." Best to preach from sadhu, sastra and guru.

Here' a famous "Prabhupada Said Story". One time in the very early days of ISKCON one girl had some kind of mystical experience while chanting. When she told Prabhupada about her "altered state", he replied, "keep chanting it will go away". According to Sridhar Maharaja a beginning sadhaka should not put much stock in such experiences. We should think, "oh perhaps it is just some apparition, I am not yet so qualified". Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, "we don't want that Krsna. We want the Krsna who is very difficult to attain." Then there is the story he tells about some disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur who went to their gurudeva and told him, "we have been chanting for several years but we don't feel or experience anything". Saraswati Thakur replied. " That you don't feel anything, that is a good thing. If had come and said that you had some feeling, some attainment, then that would be a bad thing." Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of Mahaprabhu himself, Mahaprabhu would quote Srimati Radharani, na prema gandho'mi darapi me harau. "I don't have a scintilla of a scent of love for Krsna, If I did I would give up this insect-like body." The negative side rather than positive assertion.

Part of the problem is that some persons take the "association" of sadhus like BVNM but don't really follow their instructions. Then such "dabblers" instruct others that you cannot get such things as ruci and bhava unless you associate with said sadhu. Its not hard to see through the hypocrisy so then the person who is the receptient of such preaching becomes a doubter for there is then a reverse effect. More often than not such dabblers will eventually jump to another "siksa" guru when they grow bored. Such is life in deep Kali Yuga.