Beggar

I'm trying to chant but nothing's happening?

<table valign="MIDDLE" width="100%" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="7" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" valign="middle" align="center" bgcolor="brown" nowrap="nowrap"> <!-- TOP --> <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="150" align="center"> <center> Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur </center> </td> <td align="center">Cybertemple of the Beautiful Goldenlord Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur - Killing Demons </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- TOP --> <!--SIDE BAR--> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="brown"><td valign="top" width="140" align="left"> HOME Copy/Paste to Translate Into German, French, Danish, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Norwegian, Portugese, Swedish </td> <!--MAIN BODY--> <td valign="top" bgcolor="brown"> <hr color="gold"> <center>Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Killing Demons</center> Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Sri Caitanya Siksamrita describes the demons Krishna killed in His Vrndavana pastimes and the anarthas (unwanted things) with which they may be associated. Putana (the witch) - the pseudo guru. Sakatasura (the cart demon) - carrying the burden of a cart-load of old and new bad habits, lethargy and vanity. Trinavarta (the whirlwind demon) - false pride which comes from material scholarship, which leads to bogus philosophies. Deliverance of Nalakuvara and Manigriva (breaking the twin arjuna trees) - Arrogant pride which comes from puffed-up prestige, which is rooted in a madness for wealth. Vatsasura (the calf demon) - a childish type of mentality which gives rise to a type of greediness which results in a wicked type of mischievousness. Bakasura (stork demon) - Cunning duplicity, deceptiveness and false types of behavior. Aghasura (the snake demon) - Cruelty and violence. Brahma-vimohana Pastime (Lord Brahma steals the cowherd boys and calves) - mundane activities and speculative scholasticism. Dhenukasura (the ass demon) - gross materialistic intelligence, ignorance of spiritual knowledge. Kaliya (chastising the Kaliya serpent) - brutality and treachery. Extinguishing the Forest Fire - inter-communal discord among Vaishnavas. Pralambasura (killing the Pralamba demon) - lusty inclinations; desire for personal gain and honor. Second Forest Fire - disturbance of religious principles and interference with religious people by those who are atheist. Brahmanas Performing Sacrifice - indifference toward Krishna caused by pride because of one's status (position) in varnasrama. Overcoming the Pride of Indra - demigod worship, and the tendency to think "I am Supreme." Nanda Maharaja Captured by Varuna - thinking that spiritual life can be enhanced by intoxication. Nanda Maharaja Swallowed by Vidyadhara (the snake) - rescuing the truth of Krishna consciousness from being swallowed by the impersonalists. Sankhacuda (killing the conch-shell demon and getting the jewel that was stolen by him) - proneness toward acquiring name and fame, and desire for sensuous enjoyment, under the plea of devotion. Aristasura (the bull demon) - pride arising from indulging in false religions invented by cheaters which causes neglect of devotional service (bhakti). Kesi (the horse demon) - The feeling that "I am a great devotee and spiritual master." Vyomasura (the demon in the sky) - associating with thieves and other rascals, and with people who put themselves forward as avataras. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says: "The devotee who worships the holy name should first petition the Lord for the strength to cast out all these unfavorable tendencies and should pray thus before Lord Hari on a daily basis. By doing this regularly, the devotee's heart will eventually become purified. Sri Krishna has killed a number of demons which may arise in the kingdom of the heart, so in order to destroy these problems, a devotee must cry very humbly before the Lord and admit defeat then the Lord will nullify all contaminations." </td></tr></tbody></table>

Krsna Attacks the Kesi Demon "After being instructed by Kamsa, the demon Kesi assumed the form of a terrible horse. He entered the area of Vrndavana, his great mane flying and his hooves digging up the earth. He began to whinny and terrify the whole world. Krsna saw that the demon was terrifying all the residents of Vrndavana with his whinnying and his tail wheeling in the sky like a big cloud. Krsna could understand that the horse was challenging Him to fight. The Lord accepted his challenge and stood before the Kesi demon. As He called him to fight, the horse began to proceed towards Krsna, making a horrible sound like a roaring lion. Kesi rushed toward the Lord with great speed and tried to trample Him with his legs, which were strong, forceful and as hard as stone. Krsna, however, immediately caught hold of his legs and thus baffled him. Being somewhat angry, Krsna began to move around the horse dextrously. After a few rounds, He threw him a hundred yards away, just as Garuda throws a big snake. Thrown by Krsna, the horse immediately passed out, but after a little while he regained consciousness and with great anger and force rushed toward Krsna again, this time with his mouth open. As soon as Kesi reached Him, Krsna pushed His left hand within the horse's mouth. The horse felt great pain because the arm of Krsna felt to him like a hot iron rod. Immediately his teeth fell out. Krsna's hand within the mouth of the horse at once began to inflate, and Kesi's throat choked up. As the great horse began to suffocate, perspiration appeared on his body, and he threw his legs hither and thither. As his last breath came, his eyeballs bulged in their sockets, and he passed stool and urine simultaneously. Thus the vital force of his life expired. When the horse was dead, his mouth became loose and Krsna could extract His hand without difficulty. He did not feel any surprise that the Kesi demon was killed so easily, but the demigods were amazed, and out of their great appreciation they offered Krsna greetings by showering flowers." Krnsa Book, Chapter 37 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Excerpted from text and purport of HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

First off the only Sampradaya Acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava line is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada doesn't mean to over-glorify him. Over-glorify in this context means to claim him as Sampradaya Acarya thereby neglecting the actually position of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu whose samkirtan movement, Srila Prabhupada was expert at distributing. To neglect the real position of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is an offense that the real Srila Prabhupada will not appreciate.

The Prabhupada-only-ites generally have mistaken "As It Is" for certain ideas to exist as facts such as the same way material scientists ascertain "facts". Part of this was an inevitable reaction to Srila Prabhupada's preaching strategy in the West where even so-called hippies were harboring the scientific analysis of existence. So now many believe that is a "fact" that Krsna is God, and a "fact" that Srila Prabhupada is an uttama adhikari. Generally this conception also includes that no one else who is presently embodied is or even potentially is an uttama adhikari. We also know that more often than not this other worldly viewpoint includes the idea that the jivas originated in Goloka.

There may or may not be anyone currently on the planet who is rati keli siddha. But as the old saying goes, "it takes one to know one". The rest of logic starts from there.

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja:

I remember Srila Sridhar Maharaja saying that it is very difficult to understand dhama tattva, guru tattva and Siva tattva. So it is very hard to understand this subject matter. What makes us think that this subject matter is something that bhaktas proper spend their time arguing about? Is such an activity aradhanam or aparadhanam? Isn't the answer obvious?

Without guru, taking the name of Radha and Krsna, Hare Krsna, will just be aparadha.

You know you're gonna drive me to thinkin if you keep on drivin that hot rod Lincoln.

Back to the original subject:

And some Nazis were humble: <center> </center>

<center> Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler </center> Chapter One: How I Fell From the Spiritual World Kapitel eins: Wie ich von der geistigen Welt fiel Ein Tag war ich in der geistigen Welt mit Krsna, Radhararani, den gopis und den cowherd Jungen. Ich erinnere daran mich, dass ich dachte, dass ich solch ein Dummkopf war, zum für dieses zu fallen. Ich, warum sollte dachte Krsna alle Mädchen, was erhalten über mich? Warum sollte Krsna den ganzen Ruhm, was erhalten über mich? Ich hatte das Gefühl, das, wenn ich unten zur materiellen Welt kam, dass schließlich ich der großartige Führer des Reiches von tausend Jahr werden könnte... [zu fortgesetzt werden]

Then why didn't Prabhupada 'correct' the devotee? I know that you think Shakti-fan and Beggar are the same person: Beggar and Shakti-fan. (notice the effulgence?)

Santa-Rasa in Vraja Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari Q. In your Sanga "The Perfect Commentary on Vedanta-sutra," you touched on the issue of apparently contradictory statements from Gaudiya acaryas regarding the existence of santa rasa in Krsna's Vraja-lila. In some circles this is quite a controversial subject, so can you address this further? A. Sri Krsna is known as Rasaraja. This name implies that he tastes all rasas, and it refers to him in his Vraja-lila. From this it should be clear that he does taste santa-rasa in Vraja. This is also confirmed in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 4.3.85. There Sri Rupa writes that Krsna tasted santa-rasa along with all other expressions of sacred aesthetic rapture while lifting Govardhana Hill. In this example Sri Krsna tastes santa-rasa from the vantage point of the shelter (asraya alambana) of santa-rasa. Later in Mathura he tasted santa-rasa from the vantage point of the object (visaya alambana) of love when he was wrestling in Kamsa's arena (SB 10.43.17). Therein it is clearly stated that the sages present experienced santa-rasa in relation to Sri Krsna. Such sages may very well include persons like Durvasa, who also resides in Vraja proper. So santa-rasa is expressed in his Vraja-lila within Mathura mandala. At the same time, Krsna's Vraja-lila is primarily characterized by love that is devoid of reverence, and thus it is often said to begin with sakhya-rasa. Brahmaji described all of Vrndavana as being permeated by sakhya-rasa when he told Sri Krsna, aho bhagyam, aho bhagyam nanda gopa vrajaukasam yan mitram paramanandam purna brahma sanatanam: "Oh, how fortunate, Oh, how fortunate, are the Vrajavasis of Nanda gopa, for the supreme bliss and complete, eternal Brahman is their friend." Thus everything and everyone in Vraja is touched by friendship. Everything and everyone is also touched by the influence of romantic love that Krsna's Vraja-lila is centered on. Bhaktivinoda Thakura acknowledges that santa-rati is present to some extent in the Vraja-lila when he writes in Jaiva Dharma, "At first I thought that there was no santa-rati in the devotees of Vraja, but now I see that it is present in them to a limited extent. " In the same book, however, he also writes, "Santa-rasa is absent in Vraja." Perhaps Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura sought to clarify Bhaktivinoda Thakura's statements when in his commentaries to Upadesamrta and Caitanya-caritamrta he attributed santa-rati to the nonhuman species and apparently inanimate objects of Vraja, such as cows, rivers, hills, and Krsna's flute. However, Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has attributed sahkya-rasa to the hills of Vraja and vatsalya-rati to Sri Krsna's cows. So there are different opinions among acaryas, and human reasoning renders any of these opinions problematic. For example, while there is reason to believe that Vraja's cows are in vatsalya-rasa, their relationship with Sri Krsna is also one of being protected by Gopala. Anyone who raises cows knows that they are as much children in need of protection and constant care as they are mothers, and at least in Dvaraka, Krsna's children are considered to be in dasya-rasa. Krsna's cows are also his istadevata and thus worshipable by him. Furthermore, why do we find that Radha and Govinda are not inhibited in front of Vraja's bovines as they are before human elders relishing vatsalya-rati? After all, vatsayla and madhurya-rasa are not compatible. Neither are santa and madhurya-rasas compatible for that matter. Mahadeva and Brahma are said to have taken birth in Varsana and Nandagrama as hills; are they in sakhya-rasa? Sakhya-rasa is exchanged between equals. The gopis attribute a male gender to Krsna's flute at one time and a female gender at another time. Is it male, female, neither of these, or both? Sometimes the creepers of Vraja are thought to be tasting madhurya-rati, but what is the nature of this madhurya-rati and how can it compare to that of the gopis themselves? Great devotees view the world through the lens of their bhava, and this may afford them different angles of vision at different times. Furthermore, some of Sri Krsna's devotees experience the suddha-rati known as svaccha (transparent), in which they taste the rati of those with whom they associate, moving between santa, dasya, sakhya, and madhurya. Therefore, on issues that lie beyond our present realization, it is best to respect the opinions of great souls, even when we cannot fully understand them. Questions or comments may be submitted at the Q&A Forum: http://www.swami.org/sanga/ or email sangaeditor (AT) swami (DOT) org.

Jaiva Dharma Chapter 15 -- Prameya: Jiva-Tattva Vrajanatha: So maya has nothing whatever to do with creating the svarupa of the jivas – this has to be accepted. At the same time, I have also clearly understood that the jiva is by nature subject to the influence of maya. Now I want to know, did the cit-sakti create the jivas and give them their tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)? <o:p></o:p> Babaji: No, the cit-sakti is paripurna-sakti, the complete potency of Krsna, and its manifestations are all eternally perfect substances.The jiva is not nitya-siddha, although when he performs sadhana, he can become sadhana-siddha and enjoy transcendental happiness like the nitya-siddhas, eternally perfect beings. All the four types of Srimati Radhika’s sakhis are nitya-siddha, and they are direct expansions (kaya-vyuha) of the cit-sakti, Srimati Radhika Herself. All the jivas, on the other hand, have manifested from Sri Krsna’s jiva-sakti. The cit-sakti is Sri Krsna’s complete sakti, whereas the jiva-sakti is His incomplete sakti. Just as the complete tattvas are all transformations of the complete potency, similarly innumerable atomic, conscious jivas are transformations of the incomplete sakti. Sri Krsna, being established in each of His saktis, manifests His svarupa according to the nature of that sakti. When He is situated in the cit-svarupa, He manifests His svarupa as Sri Krsna and also as Narayana, the Lord of Paravyoma; when He is situated in the jiva-sakti, He manifests His svarupa as His vilasa-murti of Vraja, Baladeva; and being established in the maya-sakti, He manifests the three Visnu forms: Karanodakasayi, Ksirodakasayi and Garbhodakasayi. In His Krsna form in Vraja, He manifests all the spiritual affairs to the superlative degree. In His Baladeva svarupaas sesa-tattva, He manifests nitya-mukta-parsada-jivas, eternally liberated associates, who render eight types of service to Krsna sesitattva-svarupa, the origin of sesa-tattva. Again, as sesa-rupa Sankarsana in Paravyoma, He manifests eight types of servants to render eight kinds of services as eternally liberated associates of sesi-rupa Narayana. Maha-Visnu, who is an avatara of Sankarsana, situates Himself in the jiva-sakti, and in His Paramatma svarupa, He manifests the jivas who have the potential to be involved in the material world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya, and unless they attain the shelter of the hladini-sakti of the cit-sakti by Bhagavan’s mercy, the possibility of their being defeated by maya remains. The countless conditioned jivas who have been conquered by maya are subordinate to the three modes of material nature. Bearing all this in mind, the siddhanta is that it is only the jiva-sakti, and not the cit-sakti, that manifests the jivas.

Several years ago one ex-Iskcon Prabhupada disciple who is now a Sri Vaisnava came to the Badger Festival, headed up by Srila Narayana Maharaja. I cannot remember his name, he is a handsome fellow with a full head of hair, no discernible hair loss. At the time he was about 50 but looked younger. He got into a discussion with Prema Prayojana Prabhu who was a sanyassi at the time. Prema Prayojana really is like walking encyclopedia of Gaudiya Vaisnavism but evidently is not so expert at controlling his senses. He told Prema that he always wanted to know more about diety worship and the GBC in turn was looking for someone to do research on the subject. The GBC at the time, as now was suspicious of "The Gaudiya Math" so he said that since Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu had traveled South India the GBC sent him to South Indian Temples which just happened to be Sri Vaisnava. He then proceeded to bring up so many arguments to try to show the superiority of Sri Vaisnavism. Prema Prayojana was able to quote directly from what he had heard from Srila Narayana Maharaja, tapes of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and directly from texts like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur's Jaiva Dharma. This fellow just kept saying, "Oh, I didn't know those answers were in Gaudiya Vaisnava literature!" and then later admitted that it was absurd for the so-called Gaudiyas of the Iskcon GBC to send him out of the sampradaya for information on diety worship and ultimately siddhanta. But is was a done deal and too late, he had been captured by Sri Vaisnavism and had fully given his heart to that side.

In Bhagavad Gita Krsna only speaks of two energies, para prakrti and apara prakrti. So the svaupa laksana of the jiva is to be para prakrti. The tatastha laksana or marginal characteristic of the baddha jiva is that he/she is fallible. This is interesting to look at: Note: infallible

Here it is and quite interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Giuliano

One doesn't really have to climb on a big chair, they can just fly on the chair of their immense egos. It's interesting how the word chair is used. For instance, 'chairman of the board', chairperson or, "he was offered the chair of Distinguished Professor". In Anglo-American legal parlance the chair is called the bench. In U.S. Federal Courts the judges sit on very high benches (chairs) which is probably meant to flaunt the power of the U.S. Government.Many Federal Judges who sit on these high benches are faced with trepidation by the attorneys that go before them. Speaking about becoming acarya of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math, Srila Govinda Maharaja, said, "guru maharaja insisted that I take this chair (the Vyasanana of the acaryaship), but I did not want to, but he insisted." So he referred to the Vyasana as the chair, and I found that quite interesting.

Dear Sonic Veggie Burger, I generally agree with everything you wrote in your last post. Just to add a point that I brought up in my last post, the baddha jivas in this world also have the temporary characteristic or tatastha laksana of being marginal. So there are at least two meanings of tatastha or marginal in this context. Absolute agreement. This is an application of the Vaisnava conception of sakti parinam, that Sri Krsna has multifareous energies or saktis that are originally one energy or sakti. Thus by His sweet will, Krsna can transform His energies. Therefore the tatastha jivas can become transformed into manifestations of the svaupa sakti or internal energy. When some of his godbrothers heard that Srila B.V. Swami Prabhupada was preaching that the baddha jivas were actually part and parcel of Krsna and therefore tiny manifestations of sat-cid-ananda-vigrah they criticised that he was making some apa-siddhanta. Srila Sridhar Maharaja harmonized the situation by telling them that he was correct in a sense because, "everthing is known by its potential."

Sonic, there is some conceptual connection that Srila Sridhar Maharaja made between acintya bhed[a] tattva, inconceivable simultaneous oneness and difference and the Hegelian dialectic of thesis, antithesis and synthesis.The conceptions of the Fall-Vadis and Dreamer-Vadis are based on half-truths not complete falsity. Half-truths or partial truths are the basis of their logic which means that often there is some truth in what they are saying but that the conclusion or siddhanta in this case comes out very wrong. The opposite approach is an attack style of confrontation, where the attacker or anti-party becomes the antithesis of the improper thesis. Here the example is that one party says that marginal is a characteristic and never a place an then the other side argues that since marginal is a temporary characteristic of the jiva it therefore is not a characteristic at all but rather only a place. Marginal may be an aquired characteristic of the jiva which Jaiva Dharma actually explains as "tatastha laksana". Here tatastha or marginal is a characteristic albeit temporary. This illustrates how the Fall-Vadis and Dreamer-Vadis make their grievous error: They are too attached to the semantics of what they read in Srila Prabhupada's speech and writings. And because they never triangulate the position of the truth by reading from another source that may use another semantical style, they are never self-challenged to reassess their original ideas that they first established in their minds as new bhaktas. This is why siksa guru becomes an imperitive otherwise there is too much of a tendency to become attached to the form or formal aspects of the vani rather than its substance. On the other hand in their neophyte over-zealousness some take the concepts of the siksa guru and then negate the ideas that they originally heard, sometimes effectively, "throwing out the baby with the bath water." An example is the dichotomy between the conception that we were never with Krsna on the rasik level versus the idea that we have forgotten our relationship with Krsna. On forums like these one side argues black and the other white. But since there is "gradation everywhere" there is actually gradations of conception of siddhantic truths. "Forget" is just a word, and the English word "forget" is just the best we can do to convey the idea. Therefore it is something like "forget". But will have to take into consideration that although we have "forgotten" Krsna we still did not leave the position of an established sthayi bhava, rasa. It sounds contradictory but it does not mean that although we have never had an established sthayi bhava that there is no truth in the idea that we have "forgotten" our relationship with Krsna. It is true, but that truth must be viewed in the light of other conceptions given by the acaryas. The most classic example of not doing this is Gaura Gopal, Sarva gattah refusing to look at quotes directly from Srila Prabhupada's books where he may say the exact opposite thing that Sarva is trying to establish by quoting a letter from 1968. In this case he is refusing to harmonize apparently opposite conceptions given in the writings of his own spiritual master. This is what I mean by "Super-Fudamentalist". Many current writers use the term "literalism" to define extreme fundamentalist.

Why are you sucked into the black and white world of the Iskcon Super-Fundamentalists? Or maybe there is a method to the madness and your strategy is to fight fire with fire? It's just how one decides to look at Reality, from which angle of vision. Tatastha has been translated as marginal. That's the best that can be done with a clumsy and crude Germanic based language which is best for analyzing dead matter. And that's the problem with English, that the language itself tends to reinforce the material conception if we use it to discuss spiritual topics. Therefore we always have to be aware of the limitations of our language and how it tends, along with living in the modern world, our material conception of life. So Professor Kapoor, tells us that the word tatastha "refers to a 'position'' ... But what if the idea that he is attempting to convey? There actually is no real position of tatastha and it really only a concept used to convey the qualities of the conditioned soul and not the soul proper. There is no tangible place which is neither the beach sand or the water, so tatastha is an abstract concept of a position. From a higher viewpoint there are only two energies of the Lord, internal and external. And from an even higher viewpoint there is only one energy for everthing is a form of Krsna's energy. So both are right and both are wrong. But those who believe that the eternal nitya siddha, servitors of the Lord, fall down or actually come to this world because they misuse their free will are delusional, foolish and commiting maha-Vaisnava aparadha. Srila Prabhupada said that they can, but they don't. That is clearly a way to give pablam to babies. Unfortunately even after almost forty years some of the babies still are reguritating their pablam for an inability to digest even the most basic concepts. Best just chant, hear, humbly serve Sri Guru, and sit down and be quiet.