theist

I would find it interesting to know of what parrelles there might have been written concerning their lives. Both had death contracts on Their lives placed on Them before Their birth by the local rulers for instance. BTW way just to clarify when I mention Krsna appearing in someone's mind I certainly wasn't meaning He appeared FROM someone's mind. Just that He could use such a vehicle if He so chose to. Not to be confused with some author was inspired by his contact with the impersonal Brahman and transcribed that formlessness into a story of form for our minds to grasp it. I firmly accept Krsna being the cause of the impersonal brahmjyoti.

From your above posts it appears the authenticity of the Brahma Samhita as regards to its date of authorship is in question itself so I can't see how it proves anything. Anyway I myself don't care if the SB and Brahma Samhita fell from sky yesterday. It's the self-effulgent truth they contain that I am trying to get the eyes to see. As far as Krsna's words and Christ's words I am not surprised they speak a similar if not exact message. That for me is just a further conformation of both although they can also be seen as standing on Their own in the respect we are speaking of. To go further I don't even care if Krsna-lila is 'literal' in a 3D sort of way or not. For all I know Krsna may have appeared and displayed these truths of Himself through the mind of the author. What is so-called fiction or imaginative writing from our viewpoint is really Absolute Truth when Krsna advents in that form. It would make no difference to me because I accept that all Krsna's energies are equally under His control and He can advent Himself any way He chooses with no loss of attractive or self-revealing potency. Just my speculations of course and I don't expect or even ask that anyone else take them seriously.

anadi, what do these posts on Brahma samhita have to do with the topic? I'm a bit lost here. Why not a separate thread for the Brahma Samhita?

What about you Haridham?

Fit in to what exactly? But I know what you mean. I am a lost soul, that is to say a dreaming soul. Sometimes I dream of birth sometimes of death. Sometimes I dream a worm's life, at others a resident of the higher planets. I am starting to get the idea that a better life can be had by waking up. But until I can get comfortable with the reality that I am eternally Krsna's servant I will have to remain in various degrees of slumber as to my true self. When one first starts getting a sense of the waking state and of God he can be said to be on the periphery of Krsna consciousness. So I am somewhere on one of those outer circles, or fringes, of Krsna consciousness. A transitory point that I don't really consider worth trying to rigidly define. But my general direction seems right so I feel good about that. Hare Krsna

"he is my lord birth after birth..." Yet it appears a different guru is accepted in each birth. Perhaps not all of them are even going to be serving Krsna in the same eternal mood. So how to harmonize this.

Patient determination. It is my hard lesson also. Desiring to desire is a good start. Krsna will help us. No doubt. hare krsna

accepts and rejects and then accepts again. Making big vows one day only to fall back the next is just a characteristic of our immature stage in devotional practice. Just watch it come and go and try not to be too disturbed by it.

this is the type of reminder I need to hear constantly. Since there is no enjoyment available in this dimension we must have awoken here to do some service.

guide you to where? I see the stones, I see the twigs and the smooth soil, but I see no path.

Gold is gold. Wisdom is wisdom, no matter where we find it. With coarse rice to eat, with water to drink, and my bended arm for a pillow - I have still joy in the midst of these things. Riches and honors acquired by unrighteousness are to me as a floating cloud. The Confucian Analects When there are ample earthly flats to lie on, what is the necessity of cots and beds? When one can use his own arms, what is the necessity of a pillow? When one can use the palms of his hands, what is the necessity of varieties of utensils? When there is ample covering, or the skins of trees, what is the necessity of clothing? Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.4

I no longer look at accepting a guru as a particular event like "on Jan. 1, 1999 I accepted a guru." At least for myself I now view acceptance as an ongoing process. I still have lingering hope that happiness can come through my various dreams and schemes within this material world. All sorts of plans are there in the sub or semi conscious portion of my mind. When I am honestly and fully materially exhausted then I will honestly and fully accept guru with a one way ticket in hand. No return ticket in the back of my mind. I am cultivating that though and feel happy that I am in the process of accepting guru. Trusting that the Lord will see me through my present state of delerium. Then I will have accepted guru. We all need to check our ticket to see if we purchased a one way to Krsna's lotus feet or a return trip by mistake. Here is a nice verse from Queen Kunti spoken to Lord Krsna. TRANSLATION SB 1.8.26 My Lord, Your Lordship can easily be approached, but only by those who are materially exhausted. One who is on the path of [material] progress, trying to improve himself with respectable parentage, great opulence, high education and bodily beauty, cannot approach You with sincere feeling.

Did you read that contract? Being influenced by association is a given. You have no fear because you have Krishna you said. OK. So does that mean you can walk into a lion's den and no harm will come to you? So if you wouldn't risk your body in that way why risk your mind with these scientologists?

you should have some fear.

he ain't kidding around

Oh, now I see more clearly what you were saying. Yes, the basics is the service also. This is from a lecture Prabhupada gave in Auckland feb 22, 1973 on SB 6.1.15 Devotee (1): How can one reach the point where he knows that a particular type of service... Sruta-kirti: How can one reach the point where he knows a particular type of service... Devotee (1): ...will please the spiritual master? Madhudviña: He wants to know how to find out how to please the spiritual master with one service. Prabhupäda: The spiritual master has given you so many things to do. Do it. First of all finish that. First of all finish sixteen rounds, observe the regulative principles. First of all... First of all finish this duty. And neglecting this duty, what you can do further? If you cannot finish sixteen rounds chanting, you cannot observe the regulative principles, then what else you can do? First of all finish this duty. Be expert in finishing, executing these duties. Then ask for another duty. And if you finish these duties, automatically Krsna will give you intelligence. Teñäà satata-yuktänäà bhajatäà préti-pürvakam [bg. 10.10]. One who is actually engaged in the service of the Lord, buddhi-yogaà dadämi tam, “I give him intelligence.” Krsna will give you intelligence. You will be able to talk with Krsna from within if you become sincere. If you cannot execute the preliminary duties, then how you can execute further duty? There is no question.

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean here. That's great and very natural I would think. Some seem to be inspired by knowing he is in his instructions and is present right now. Very little seems to inspire me these days except the fear of death. Yes the Lord in the heart knows our mind completely. The guru is His external manifestation. Not sure what this is in reference to. I hope you don't think I am saying stay away from devotees. All I am saying is that I see little use in approaching guru and asking "how may I serve you" when we are not even doing the basics in a steady manner. That doesn't mean one shouldn't hear. But why waste the vaisnava's time with some pretend game of wanting to serve. The time is there to chant 16 rounds.

Thanks Admin 5. I remeber back in the early 70's a friend of mine was living in the LA temple and they had martial arts classes. This was when Prabhupada was still traveling around the world. I also remeber the kundalini-yoga folks (under yogi bhajan I believe) used to practice karate together. They hired an outside teacher to teach them all together. I thought that was pretty cool.

joyrex, gelatine can be avoided. I know what you mean though. Sometimes I have found all vegan ingedients for something but then they put them in a gelatine capsule. Man, I feel like I need a degree in biochemistry or something just to buy some vegan vitamins. Oh well. But b-12 is best taken in a sublinqual tablet anyway. I bought Country Life last time. I also use a lot of nutritional yeast from KAL and they add b-12. In the future I hope some compamy comes through with a totally vegan vitamin line.

you can try is completely cleansing your sinus cavities. I do this with some warm water and baking soda mixed together. I then take a small rubber bulb and fill it with the solution and run it through each nostril. I got the bulb from an ear cleaning kit. Works well. I believe this is called nasya in ayurvedic practice and they also use different oils etc. instead of the baking soda water. They also sell little vessels to use in place of the rubber bulbs. Works for me. It may for you. I have actually woken myself up from snoring. "snort...Huh?... What was that noise?" lol

I was refering to the b-12 itself. It is from bacteria. Whatever else they may add to the concoction you will have to check separatly.

You consciously serve their will. If you approach a devotee and ask how you may serve, you are really asking "How may I fulfill your will?" So the essential thing is we must find out the will of the devotee. And we must always examine the sincereity of our own will in fulfilling theirs. Myself as someone who doesn't even steadily fulfill the basics of rising early and chanting 16 rounds needn't look to much further to know how to best serve. I should do the obvious before asking for more service. Until then we can support the devotees' students and disciples in their various projects in service to him. Or just offer to wash some pots at your local temple. This is not a big hidden esoteric mystery. Help a friend understand that they are not the body but rather a particle of God. That is serving the devotees will. What do we think, the devotee is going to send us on some mission to a far away land if we are not doing the basics nicely? We tend to over mystify what is very practical and simple.

The fact that the young female author is only 14 gives me a some hope for this culture. The whole situation underscores for me the need for devotees to establish their own educational systems. Support vouchers and break up the monopoly on education. Theistic children of all religions should not have their fragile and maleable young minds handled by these nonsense teachers who are more fit for working in a system designed by Hiranyakasipu. Support vouchers.

I think this is great. Next I hope to read an article on Krsna orientated martial arts classes. ------ New Dvaraka Establishes Vaisnava Hatha-Yoga Center ATMANANDA DASA USA, Oct 2 (VNN) — Atma Yoga represents a new way to promote the Krsna consciousness movement. Seeing the need to take advantage of the ever-expanding hatha yoga movement for spreading Krsna consciousness, Atmananda Dasa of New Dvaraka has developed a highly appealing Vaisnava hatha yoga system. Atma Yoga is externally similar to many of the commercial yoga systems but is fueled by bhakti shakti. The first full Atma Yoga Center was opened in Los Angeles, across from the New Dvaraka Temple, in January of this year. It has been a success, bringing new Krsna consciousness aspirants to the community. Additionally, two teacher training sessions have already been completed, and the new teachers are already teaching at the center. The hope is to see Atma Yoga Centers and teachers spring up all over the world, in association with established ISKCON centers. Teacher training courses are scheduled for various locations around the United States, Europe, and India during this year and the next. Please visit http://www.yogamandir.com/teacher_training.html A Desire to Serve Srila Prabhupada Atma Yoga began with a humble desire to fulfill Srila Prabhupada's desire to increase the ways that the Krsna consciousness movement can spread. Built on the fundamentals of Hari Nama, prasadam distribution, and distribution of Srila Prabhupada's books, Atma Yoga is a hatha yoga system infused with Krsna consciousness- a novel way and means to spread Krsna consciousness in terms of particular time and circumstance, which at this time includes the explosion of interest in physical yoga culture in America and other Western countries. An Atma Yoga Class Mantra concentration exercise in an Atma Yoga Class Eighteen million Americans will try some form of Yoga in 2003. The Atma Yoga system is designed to mimic the form and culture of hatha yoga classes in America. The idea is that an Atma Yoga class would be agreeable to people looking for hatha yoga classes in Los Angeles, Detroit, Wichita, or Poughkeepsie. (Additionally, due to the mixture of cultures these days, this should also apply to European countries and Asian countries-even to India.) Class always begins with the call and response of Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. Then various combinations of asanas, pranayamas, mudras, and bandhas, intertwined with various Krsna mantras, make up the bulk of the class. During the standard cool-down or relaxation period (and sometimes during the class) students hear krsna-katha; this can include poetry or stories from the Bhagavatam, excerpts from the lives of the Vaisnava Acaryas, etc. At the end of each class there is a special meditation that integrates the mantra or mantras used during the class. This is sometimes an opportunity to instruct people in the use of japa mala. At the end of every Atma Yoga class everybody sings along with the Atma Yoga closing song, which was especially composed for us by Nirantara Dasa. The song is based on George Harrison's My Sweet Lord and includes three full verses of the Maha Mantra. The closing song is immediately followed by the recitation of the prema-dhvani, with the students offering obeisances and chanting Jai! and Haribol! Immediately following the prema-dhvani, Maha Prasadam is distributed to all the students. After the class, most of the students go to Govindas to have dinner and discuss the class or ask questions of the teacher. Many also visit Govinda's Gift Shop, where they may pick up one of Srila Prabhupada's books. Additionally, throughout the year students are encouraged to attend workshops on Vedic topics of interest to them, e.g., a presentation on human origins by Drutakarma Prabhu or a special talk by His Holiness Bhakti Tirtha Swami. We also do all-day Krishna japa intensives called Mantric-Tantric, and of course we also encourage the students to take the teacher training. By Krsna's grace this whole process has been systematized and can be easily taught to others and replicated. ISKCON leaders on Atma Yoga At a recent weekend meeting of ISKCON GBC and temple authorities in New Dvaraka, we asked several of the attendees their opinion of the Atma Yoga program. Here are some of their comments Devamrita Swami: This is a great program with important ramifications for the future. Sandamini Dasi: It's fantastic. Better late than never-so many people are getting followers through yoga now. Every temple that can facilitate it should do so. It is a bridge for people to Krsna consciousness. Sesa Dasa: We need to see innovative preaching approaches. We have to respond with Krsna consciousness in a way that people want to receive it rather than the way we think they should get it. Kalakantha Dasa: It is worth a try anywhere. This is a very good idea for Alachua. Experienced devotees are always looking for ways to spread Krsna consciousness and simultaneously support their families. Badrinarayan Dasa: Great idea, though the training period is not long enough in my opinion. It should be serious enough to produce really expert Krsna conscious hatha-yoga practitioners. Additionally, Bhakti-Tirtha Swami, Radanatha Swami, Sacinandana Swami, Ravindra Svarupa Dasa, Anuttama Dasa, Kuladri Dasa, Nityananda Dasa, Naikatma Dasa, and Ekavira Dasa have all responded with enthusiasm and support. Atma Yoga in Gaudiya Vaisnavism In Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Prema Pradipa, we read a story about a Vaisnava named Yogi Babaji. Formerly a well-known pranayama yogi, he agrees to take on students interested in Hatha/Raja yoga. By gently infusing his instruction with elements of Bhakti yoga, Yogi Babaji allows his students to see beyond the allure of the yogas of control and draws them to devotional service One day Naren Babu and Anand Babu offered obeisances at Babaji's feet and said, 'Prabhu! We will be indebted if you give us the Hare Krsna mantra.' Babaji had them clean themselves externally by taking bath and internally by devotion; then without delay he gave them the Hare Krsna mantra. They then began to constantly chant hari-nama on tulasi beads. One day they asked, 'Prabhu! Shall we mark our forehead with tilaka?' Babaji answered, 'Do as you like. I don't insist on external formalities.' Although Babaji showed indifference to external formalities, still, by the Babu's association with the Vaisnavas, they developed a desire to wear Vaisnava dress. When Mallik Mahasaya saw Anand Babu and Naren Babu with tilaka and mala the next morning, he thought, 'Krsna can do anything.' From that day Naren Babu and Anand Babu gave up their beards and moustaches and packed away their foreign shoes. They completely accepted the dress of grhastha Vaisnavas This wonderful excerpt from Prema Pradipa is an excellent precursor of Atma Yoga. Contact info: For more information, please call Atmananda Dasa at 310-558-4920 or email: Atma@yogamandir.com moderator's note: Edited to correct the link to the teacher training site. It was not working, as it had a ) at the end of it.

http://vedabase.net/ Hare Krsna