theist

The Ruthless Grip of Logic By Robert Tracinski Memo to the world: Reality cannot be cheated. Politicians and diplomats like to pretend that you can cheat the laws of logic, that there is no need to commit to absolutes, and that there is something to be achieved by "constructive ambiguity." The past week has been a great demonstration that reality is not ambiguous and does not allow contradictions. Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar just got a good lesson in logic. After years of preaching death to America and three months of declaring that the Taliban will fight to the death -- taking advantage, he said, of their "best opportunity for martyrdom" -- he found that it is very hard to reverse yourself and try to live. A proposed surrender, under which Omar would have remained alive in Kandahar under the protection of a local chieftain, fell through when Secretary Rumsfeld told our Afghan allies that America won't forget Omar's rhetoric about a war to the death. Mullah Omar is now on the run and enjoys unprecedented new opportunities for martyrdom. The Bush administration has also, reluctantly, come face to face with the logic of its Middle East policy -- or rather, the illogic of its support for terrorist leader Yasser Arafat. The absurdity of this policy has become too obvious even for hardened State Department operatives to deny. As one radio commentator put it: How can the United States fight terrorists half a world away, then tell Israel it cannot fight the terrorists next door? There is no answer to that question -- at least, no answer that logic will allow. Hence, after three months of shameful betrayal of Israel, the Bush administration showed signs of bowing to logic. They stopped calling on Israel to show "restraint" against Palestinian terrorists, and news reports indicated that Bush was preparing to drop his support for Arafat. Yasser Arafat then found himself in the ruthless grip of logic. For almost a decade, he has gained the support of the United States by claiming to renounce terrorism and seek peace with Israel. But Arafat tried to have his cake and eat it, too. He publicly renounced terrorism, while broadcasting terrorist propaganda on Palestinian television and in Palestinian schools, and periodically unleashing Hamas terrorists to attack Israel. But now, faced with the withdrawal of his chief sponsor, the United States, he has to try to appear as if he is serious about his anti-terrorism rhetoric. So he has rounded up dozens of Hamas leaders and sent his riot police into the streets to suppress Palestinian mobs. This is a lesson in logic that the administration needs to take seriously. We have been told, by apologists for the "peace process," that the only way to stop the "cycle of violence" in the Middle East is to urge restraint on both sides, to regard Israeli and Palestinian claims as equal, and to reassure Arafat that we will support his quest for an independent state. But when we did all of these things, the terror attacks continued unabated. The moment we throw up our hands and threaten to abandon Arafat -- the moment we take sides against the Palestinian Authority and stop urging Israeli restraint -- that is the moment Arafat takes some actual steps to suppress terrorism. But that puts poor Yasser in another bind. Palestinians are engaging in what American reporters quaintly term "protests." (The idea, apparently, is to stand up for your right to terrorize.) Arafat's Fatah faction is locked in a fateful struggle with the more bloodthirsty Hamas, which doesn't believe you should stop killing Jews, even temporarily. Arafat's life is widely considered to be in danger from his own people. Once again, logic is demanding its due. Arafat has been dubbed "the father of modern terrorism"; he pioneered the use of kidnapping, assassination and random bombings as tools of politics. His Palestinian Authority has sponsored summer camps training teenagers in terrorist acts; it has offered stipends to reward the families of suicide bombers; its schools and TV stations have lionized anti-Israeli bombers and rioters. And Arafat is terrorism's greatest model of success: after 35 years of killing, he was rewarded with his own little dictatorship and seemingly unlimited aid and tolerance from the United States. Now Arafat finds that it's difficult for a terrorist leader to convince the people he trained to be terrorists to stop engaging in terrorism. Funny how that works. No, you can't cheat reality. And if you get caught cheating -- as Arafat and Mullah Omar may soon discover -- you usually get expelled.

I heard today that he was very ill and might soon die. Then I heard it might not be true. He is truly an obstacle to peace in that region. He is also under investigation for stashing up to 1.3 Billion dollars away for himself. Money that was sent to help the Palestinians. A natural death would be best. If the Israeli's take him out all hell will break loose and if they expell him he'll just end up in Libia or Syria causing the same murderous mischief. Lizard Man, the father of modern terrorism.

Muralidhar das, In your original post you stated your view and then asked for comments. I gave you my comments, and mentioned I thought your idea made no sense. I then offered something from Christ on the topic. You were not convinced. I posted a quote from Prabhupada stating Jesus was a Krsna incarnation. You asked what kind of incarnation . I answered Shaktyavesa and suggested that you run a search on vedabase if you had one to confirm my statement. There are hundreds. Just recently there was thread where many were posted and I don't feel like doing it again. I was thinking that so many statements from Prabhupada might convince you. You replied that you didn't want to argue. That's understandable but I never thought there was an arguement to begin with. A difference of opinion is not an arguement to me. Now nameless guest accuses us of victimizing you. That is an absurdity and I hope you didn't feel that way. As far as your quote from Mahaprabhu on the Koran I can only say we are talking about the person Lord Jesus Christ and not the Koran or the Bible. Anyway I know that if Prabhupada's quotes don't convince anyone here I surely have no need to try. No hard feelings on my side. Hare Krsna

Never heard of it. I don't know much about silk production anyway, but it seems encouraging that there may be a difference in production methods.

you started the thread. Hare Krsna

Right on Priitaa about misusing temples. I knew this was going to become a bigger and bigger thing a few years ago when they started advertising some seminar at the Berkeley temple. So much $(required) to get in the door and attend. That may be fine somewhere else, but not at a temple. The temples should be strict about their main purpose, Radha/Krsna worship. Specific Krsna katha. We must beware of other issues coming in even though they may be related. There is one letter where Prabhupada said he didn't want the ghastly pictures showing slaughter practices in the Back to Godhead magazines. I actually post such pictures of how cows are slaughtered around campus here and elsewhere in Berkeley. Trying to shock some people awake to the issue. But I would never consider putting one up at the temple. Temples should never be allowed to morph into community action centers or holistic health centers etc. These are good things but not on temple property. Even Govinda resteraunts, Prabhupada wanted them to have a separtate entrance. Keep temples, temples.

From what I understand George just wanted to be able to be a regular bhakta around the temples etc. but wasn't allowed to as people kept relating to him as a "Beatle" devotee. Also always trying to get some money from him etc. for their projects. I got the impression that he would have liked to just sit in temple room unnoticed and chant some japa without being looked at and pointed out all the time. It's natural to be attracted to especially talented or rich or intelligent among us. Those are Krsna's attracting attributes and devotees should be reminded of Krsna at those times when we see them minutely displayed in another living entity. We should also control the urge to swoon over them and let them have some space when they visit temples etc.

I don't know much about Hinduism. But we can easily see in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna(God) is telling Arjuna to do his duty while hearing Krsna's words and to stand and fight. Arjuna was a warrior who was inclined not to fight against the other side because some of his teachers and relatives were in the opposing party. But Krsna wanted him to fight. So He explains to Arjuna why Arjuna should fight under His(God's) direction, giving up all mundane or material sentiments and simply obey the Lord. It is a very deep topic and I have only scratched the surface of what the Bhagavad-gita is about. Others here can take it much farther. Bhagavad-gita is basically accepted by all hindus as a central text so I would suggest for your report that you concentrate on it. If you try to take in all of what goes by Hinduism at once you will find that it is extremely vast and not possible in several lifetimes. I don't think your teachers will accept such a delay. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Good luck Hare Krsna

Angekela, We must be careful not to let the misunderstandings of others cause us to try and retaliate in some fashion. We can't try to hold God to our mundane conceptions of morality. For instance God says thou shall not kill. But yet He is the one who design death and in His form as time actually kills everyone. So are we to call God immoral, and then reject Him as God? The Bhagavatam speaks of various types of incarnations of the Lord as being as uncountable as the waves that wash up on shore. They come to work various missions of the Supreme Lord for the elevation of the living entities according to the time place and circumstance that those living entities are presently condition by. So from culture to culture or even from planet to planet their missions will appear to vary. Readers of the Bhagavatam should know this basic thing.

M.das Prabhupada stated hundreds if not thousands of times that Lord Jesus Christ is Shaktya-vesa Avatar of Krsna. Bhaktisiddanta also said this. He also said Lord Jesus came straight from the Spiritual Sky, and that he was not conditioned at anytime. If you have a vedabase do a search on Lord Jesus Christ.

That you Chichi? /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have one interested party that I have neglectful in getting back to. Your post is a nudge to get me moving.

Did you take some vow not to use caffeine? If not then you might want to drop the pressure it appears you are laying on yourself. Anyway, caffeine can be hard on a person. It's addictive and its withdrawl symptoms include headaches. It will pick you up for a bit but then let you done in a few hours. There is a thread started on brain foods in the health section. Herbs and vitamins can supply a good substitute. Also if you are not philosophically opposed to pharmaceuticals you should look into a preperation called Olmifon or more widely known as Adafrinil. This is an older version of Modafranil but MUCH cheaper. If interested here is an article to get you started on your investigation. http://www.antiaging-systems.com/home1.htm I just tested the link and it goes to their homw page so just look up the product under their Articles section. Good luck

Prabhupada's opinion Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ? Prabhupäda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahimsä. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. “Thou shall not kill.’’ That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, “Thou shall not steal,’’ that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Krsna, Lord Jesus Christ was Krsna incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you’ll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha’s teaching, Krsn’s teaching.

Jesus Arrested From Matthew 47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50 Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for." 51 Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" 55 At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

http://www.petaindia.com/

Yes, like the account of Jesus at Ratha-yatra. What at first sounds like a rejection of the event by Christ is really him speaking the essence of vaisnavism.

>>And I thought to myself how do they accept them so freely,... << There are NO qualifiers to chanting God's holy names. This is a very important point, actually it is an essential point. All this pushing of the four regs. on new people is simple setting up stumbling blocks. Also this pressure to pledge allegiance to a specific 'guru' "pick a guru, any guru just gotta have a guru in a body, hurry up get a guru" Please, we should just encourage others to chant and associate, take prasada and be happy. Other things will come about in due course. Supersoul is running the show not us.

Actually Prabhupada did read it and quoted from it. He used it for his preaching and as far as I know never gave a 100% stamp of approval.

That is the test right? When an intruder broke into his home and George confronted the guy, the intruder put a knife into George's chest. George chanted Hare Krsna, or called out to Krsna in some way.

George Harrison put out the maha-mantra as a single and it was #1 in England for a while and popular here in the US as well. Just after my short attempt at temple life I walked into a donut shop. The line was long and I wandered over to the juke box. There it was. The Hare Krsna mantra. I dropped in my dime and the Harinama was on. Hard to measure how many millions of people heard the devotees chanting Hare Krsna just from that one single. George working under Prabhupada's inspiration played a huge part in spreading the name to so many towns and villages.

Don't know the movie but this might relate. Sometimes demoniac nonbelievers, not understanding the potency of the holy name, make fun of the Vaisnavas when the Vaisnavas chant the Hare Krsna mahä-mantra. This joking is also beneficial for such persons. Srimad-Bhägavatam, Sixth Canto, Second Chapter, verse 14, indicates that the chanting of the Hare Krsna mahä-mantra, even in joking, in the course of ordinary discussion, in indicating something extraneous, or in negligence, is called nämäbhäsa, which is chanting that is almost on the transcendental stage. This nämäbhäsa stage is better than nämäparädha. Nämäbhäsa awakens the supreme remembrance of Lord Visnu. When one remembers Lord Visnu, he becomes free from material enjoyment. Thus he gradually comes forward toward the transcendental service of the Lord and becomes eligible to chant the holy name of the Lord in the transcendental position. Purport CC Adi 17.200

I consider your post to be absurd and very foolish. Jesus couldn't save himself. What ...? Do you say the same about Haridas Thakur being beaten in 22 market places? I usually really appreciate your posts but this one sucks. Hare Krsna Upon rereading your post I see I may have misunderstood your intent. If so I apologize. If not my previous post stands.

>>The truth is that we truly don't love krishna, but we don't admit it. << How can we develop the desire to reach the desired state if we think we are already there? Haridham I didn't think you were looking for a competetive qoute to send back to her. I was mostly thinking of a habit I have had for years and am trying to get rid of. Hare Krsna

I piss people off on a deeper level and to a greater degree than you, so if there is a reward it's mine. I would suggest spending less time writing new posts and start thinking about the answers you receive on the one's you have already started. I also think you are crazy but then I know that about myself and the rest of the universe also. But slow down the mind a bit.

That was heavy enough and could serve as an object of meditation for the rest of this birth. If you want to send a quote back I would suggest something that confirms this mood. Don't challenge it or try to play one upsmanship over it, just send something that resonates with the truth of it. Through contemplating such things together you will grow closer to God and each other at the same time. Which may be the real purpose of a marriage anyway.