theist

it is a tale straight from hell for sure. Run a google search on animal rights to find out more. Better than going back to India to get milk you could stay in the West and help devotees who have cow protection projects and help fight this by educating the people on what really goes on. Hare Krsna

Male calves are sold immediately to veal producers. They are then kept in a crate for 14 to 17 weeks. A crate so small the calve cannot turn around. This excercise deprivation makes the calves meat tender for the demons. Then the male calve is slaughtered. The female calves are slaughtered at birth so the rennet can be taken from their stomachs. Others are allowed to grow until they can take their mothers place as milk slaves. At this point the dairy cow is slaughtered for her meat. This is hardly the vedic conception of cow protection and milk production.

I found it obvious what Jndas was meaning when he showed reluctance to offer all the details. He has in the past and is sick of having to repost the same points every other month. The fact that this thread was even brought back up was a shame. Many of Prabhupada's disciples apparently would like to see his mission stay as he wished so that Krsna consciousness could grow and flourish. That means protecting it from whimsical deviations of all varieties.

Religious Schools Getting More Florida Vouchers FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS TALLAHASSEE, USA, Oct 18 (VNN) — The use of tax money at religious schools has mushroomed in the last year while an appeals court considers a lower court ruling that giving tax dollars to religious schools violates the Constitution. Two-thirds of all private schools are religious, but about three-quarters of all schools using vouchers in Florida are religious. The Palm Beach Post said Sunday that 869 of the 1,158 private schools taking vouchers are religious schools. They represent 48 different denominations, 97 percent of which are some denomination of Christianity, including 160 Catholic schools and 138 Baptist ones. Thirteen of the state's 38 Jewish schools, nine of the 11 Muslim schools and both of Florida's Hare Krishna schools get vouchers. Circuit Judge Kevin Davey of Tallahassee ruled last year that tax-supported vouchers for religious schools violate the state constitution. But the schools were allowed to get voucher dollars during the appeal process. ''It cannot be denied that the amount of money that has left the state treasury for religious institutions has grown exponentially,'' said Ron Meyer, the lead lawyer fighting against the vouchers. He successfully argued 14 months ago that such spending violates the clause of the state constitution that prohibits the state from using tax dollars to aid any church, sect or religious denomination. Voucher supporters say parents who want their children to attend religious schools pay tax dollars, too, and should be entitled to use that money how they want, something that was impossible before vouchers. ''If tax dollars can go for the betterment of people who are righteous people, then there's nothing wrong with that,'' said Najmah Shabazz, a board member of the Al Furquan Academy, an Islamic school in Duval County that has 15 percent of its students on corporate tax credit vouchers worth $3,500 each. Although the number of Opportunity Scholarships for parents of children at repeatedly failing schools -- the subject of the lawsuit -- has grown slightly, the overall number of vouchers has increased dramatically because of growth in Florida's two other voucher programs: the McKay Scholarship for disabled children and the Corporate Income Tax Scholarship for poorer children. About 12,200 students use McKay scholarships to attend private schools, and about 12,300 children this year are receiving corporate tax vouchers. The corporate voucher enrollment could grow to as many as 25,000 because lawmakers increased the tax-credit limit on the program from $50 million to $88 million. ''Our principal position is you don't use tax dollars to advocate religion and if you are sending money to a religious school, any religious school, it's a violation,'' said Larry Spalding, legislative staff counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union in Florida.

http://www.milksucks.com/

I see no justifiable reason myself.

Before you try to ascertain if someone is a devotee or not you should yourself have a clear understanding of what is meant by the term devotee. The sectarianist sees a Muslim repeating rising and falling before God in prayer, or a Christian kneeling before God with folded hands in prayer,or a Hindu laying prostrate before the Deity of Bhagavan offering his prayers and concludes they are all doing something different. The devotee however sees they are engaged in the same thing,devotional prayer. Now who prays to God? A devotee,who else? The self is by nature a devotee. From our fallen position we are seen to be in different stages of realizing our devotional selves. So we may pray with higher or lower motivations. Most everyone on Earth who is in this process is more or less classified as a materialistic devotee. "God give me money", "God heal my broken back","God I am curious to know about this..."God give me liberation" or varying mixtures. Few approach the Lord saying "Lord, how may I please You?" Those unmotivated devotees are very rare in this world. We should be a little generous side. If we must error let's error in the positive direction. Most of us are just in the mix somewhere. George Harrison, under Prabhupada's inspiration, spread the maha-mantra around the world. That should enough of a clue shouldn't it?

First your scientific friend should prove to you that you are the body. Which he won't be able to do. Until this point(the body is not the self) is understood no one can really understand reincarnation. Once it is philosophically grasped that the self's existence is not dependent on the body then the idea of the self's existence prior to the body's formation can be entertained. Then the idea of reincarnation becomes not only a possibility but a strong probability. The self had to be somewhere. If not in another body then where? First things first, the body is not the self.

To concentrate the mind one needs an object for contemplation. Krsna is that Supreme object. Krsna also means His words, His devotees, His service etc. There is no need to try and acquire the ability to concentrate before beginning Krsna consciousness. Just try to hear the name as you chant your japa. And do the same for every aspect of your sadhana. Better to be mindful than mindless. And the mind should be filled with Krsna.

I'm not a member of ISKCON so I don't use ISKCON. But if someone wants to identify themselves as a member of ISKCON what is wrong with that?

Looks like guest is experiencing a sectarian style nightmare. Please chant the name of God the Father and God the Son(Christ) and it will pass. Good Luck

scroll down to the next to last post on the first page and there vsdprasada prabhu has kindly left a chart on finger chanting.

with Krsna Katha. Empty mind in Krsna consciousness means empty of false perceptions, not void or blank. That is only attained when the mind is fixed on Krsna.

Can a soul escape a glass? Maybe he should first explain how a soul can be captured by a glass.

TRANSLATION Austerity of speech consists in speaking words that are truthful, pleasing, beneficial, and not agitating to others, and also in regularly reciting Vedic literature. PURPORT One should not speak in such a way as to agitate the minds of others. Of course, when a teacher speaks, he can speak the truth for the instruction of his students, but such a teacher should not speak to those who are not his students if he will agitate their minds. This is penance as far as talking is concerned. Besides that, one should not talk nonsense. The process of speaking in spiritual circles is to say something upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying. At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear. By such discussions, one may derive the highest benefit and elevate human society. There is a limitless stock of Vedic literature, and one should study this. This is called penance of speech.

thanks folks,overly generous though /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I happen to know him personally and this guy is mostly a fraud. Sorry but true. Fairly harmless but what he says should be taken with a grain of salt. His mind is presently dominated by depression and he hasn't touched his beads in six weeks. In a brief moment of clarity he admitted he only comes here for help in remebering Krsna, and even though he pretends otherwise, he is dependent on the mercy of the vaishnavas here and thanks them for taking the time to chat with him from time to time. Hare Krsna

http://www.matmero.hu/SDG/ Bhaktivedanta Institute http://www.bvinst.org/ It would be nice if BI had a Q&A forum for us lay people.

But when do we get to hear your voice gopaldas?

Beatifully stated Myra.

Why would Krsna be offended? But the thing is there is no need to look for Him by buying certain pop or movie songs. He is everywhere already. But for those of us who are still trying to see Him everywhere it makes better sense to find Him in His name in the association with those that have already found Him, or are at least closer than we are. Besides the mind will be more able to mislead us while listening to Bollywood tunes or just any so-called guru walking around. Best we ask Krsna to let us find His devotees first and chant with them. It's safer.

Sounds like a very elevated state. But we must becareful. It might be best to search out Krsna first in His name and recitations of His pastimes as told by His pure devotees. Then we will be sure not to miss Him. Here is one I heard as a kid. When I hear it now it reminds me of the mood of separation. For those that haven't heard Elvis Presley sing this you probably haven't won't recognize it. I don't know if anyone sang it before him but I doubt anyone has tried since. Kentucky Rain ( Eddie Rabbit - Dick Heard) Seven lonely days And a dozen towns ago I reached out one night And you were gone Don't know why you'd run, What you're running to or from All I know is I want to bring you home So I'm walking in the rain, Thumbing for a ride On this lonely Kentucky backroad I've loved you much too long And my love's too strong To let you go, never knowing What went wrong Kentucky rain keeps pouring down And up ahead's another town That I'll go walking thru With the rain in my shoes, Searchin for you In the cold Kentucky rain, In the cold Kentucky rain Showed your photograph To some old gray bearded man Sitting on a bench Outside a gen'ral store They said "Yes, she's been here" But their memory wasn't clear Was it yesterday, No, wait the day before So I fin'ly got a ride With a preacher man who asked "Where you bound on such a dark afternoon?" As we drove on thru the rain As he listened I explained And he left me with a prayer That I'd find you Oh, and BTW, yes you are crazy. /images/graemlins/smile.gif But so is the entire universe so don't feel lonley. We are here to keep you company.

>>But if I leave prabhupads movement, where will I go?<< For me at this point this is the heart of the matter. I see three options. 1)Stay in the world of endless birth, death, chaos and bewilderment. 2)Merge in the bramajyoti and forget it all for an undeterminate amount of time, only to eventualy reemerge at some point back in birth and death. 3) Try to keep focused on the goal of trying for Krsna consciousness and solve all problems for all time. There is nowhere else to go and there never will be. Hare Krsna

You sound like me in a lot of ways. I prefer to stay aloof around temples especially. One thing I have noticed is that peolple that live there can't really evaluate our situations as well as we might think they can. They are often just caught up in their own attempts to get through this material maze as much as we are. They can't really see your level of sincerity. Keep doing your service and don't worry if anyone other than Krsna shows appreciation, which He surely will. I really understand your situation more than you may realize. Stay strong and chant always. Hare Krsna

Other teas contain caffein. Ginseng does not. The word tea gets used to mean infusion which just refers to the method of extracting the vital properties by letting them steep in hot water. Like peppermint tea for example.