theist

I am a hermit so I don't have this problem. But one solution would be to speak only about Krsna with them. They will then leave or become your true friend. Feed them some Krsna prasadam. Guest may not be really God but God is surely there within that guest. Trying to carry things to extremes though does not make sense and is not the point. Someone who is an aparadhi should be shown the door and if he comes back with no opening apology don't let him in. Then there are home invaders. Should they be treated as God because its Vedic? I would shoot them. Of course if all else fails then one can follow the example set by Gaura Kishore. That should thin out the crowds.

lived outside the temple. But it takes some honest introspection on our part. Are we really just as Krsna conscious outside the temple? Or do we tend to waste more time by watching tv etc.? Myself I always feel more inspired just the moment I walk into a temple and see the murti of Prabhupada and the Deities or just see the temple residents about their respective services. But I also find that if I start using the temple as a hangout and become too familiar with the setting I lose that inspiration and start to feel it's my clubhouse or something. Spiritual life is always like walking on a razors edge, in the temple or out.

Shiva will never understand that we don't accept his sources as well as he doesn't accept ours. That freedom we all have. What do your so-called scholars have to offer in terms of proof for the Varaha Avatar shiva?

I didn't call anyone a demon. But now that you mention it... And yes I accept thatbehind the terms demons and angles there is the spiritsoul. You are right and it is good to remember that.

Yes you read that correctly. These monsters will stop at nothing to avoid becoming vegetarian. Deeper into hell they steer the Earth. Cloned Food Gets Closer To Market USA Today Oct. 31--The arrival of meat or milk from cloned animals in America's grocery stores takes a giant step forward today with the release of a Food and Drug Administration report that says cloned animals pose no greater risk to human health than normally bred animals. It is the first time that a regulatory body has said that such animals are safe to eat and greatly increases the likelihood that the FDA will lift its voluntary ban on the sale of meat, milk and food products made from cloned animals. In 2002, the FDA asked companies engaged in the cloning of agricultural animals to voluntarily refrain from selling them for human consumption. The executive summary of the report is to be presented Tuesday to the FDA's veterinary medicine advisory committee, which will evaluate it and eventually consider whether the agency's voluntary restrictions should be lifted. The FDA has not said when the full 300-page report will be released to the committee. Industry experts say the sale of products made from cloned animals is only the first piece of a much larger picture -- the sale of "transgenic" animals. Companies around the globe are already working to genetically modify animals to produce drugs and all manner of chemicals. And they anticipate a day when animals might be engineered to produce extra-tender meat, milk low in lactic acid or eggs that protect against heart disease. "This sets a basis for the next level, which is transgenics," says Lisa Dry of the Biotechnology Industry Organization. "You've got to cross this threshold before you can go there." But Greg Jaffe, biotechnology coordinator with the Center for Science in the Public Interest, says the food-safety evidence is in short supply. The FDA risk assessment makes numerous assumptions that the public might not make, he says. The first is that a healthy animal is likely to produce safe food products, so if a cloned animal is healthy, foods made from it will be healthy. "The analysis says that if a clone gets as far as the slaughterhouse, it has to be healthy. And if it's healthy, then it's probably not harmful, but they don't have the data to back it up," Jaffe says. The FDA risk assessment also looks at the moral and ethical issues raised by animal cloning. Clones are subject to many pathological problems, including hypertension, kidney abnormalities, liver problems, limb and body wall defects, and abnormally large babies. However, the risk assessment finds that the health problems aren't that much different from those seen from artificial reproduction technologies commonly used on farms. Even if the FDA lifts its ban, whether a market will exist is another matter. The most important issue for the nation's grocers is that consumers are convinced and assured that the food supply is safe, says Stephanie Childs of the Grocery Manufacturers of America. It's important to remember that few clones will be sold as food, says Janet Riley of the American Meat Institute. "It's an exact twin. We're copying an animal that has optimal characteristics, such as flavor or tenderness, and using it for breeding stock so that its offspring will have those characteristics."

I was worried there. Better a diet of distilled water. /images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm still not totally convinced. There may be a conspiracy to turn the populace into homosexuals as a step in total population control. OK stop laughing, its possible. Yes the homophibia thing is a farce to make those uncomfortable with being around homosexuals seem diseased. I've had lesbian friends who I felt comfortable around. It was nice actually because the sexual tension was so much lessened. But really butch bull dykes are another story. I knew one once who started off the conversation by asking me how much I could bench. (bench press as in weight lifting for those that haven"t heard the term.) Just too weird coming from a girl. And I swear the fact that she was ahead of me by over 40 pounds had nothing to do with it.

This is a letter Prabhupada wrote to someone in a similar position. The person was in a male form at the time and has since taken a female role as 'Jennifer' My dear Jennifer, Please accept my greetings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated June 6, 1975 and have noted the contents. First of all, you decide whether you are female or male, then be one or the other. Then, you may enter our temple any time you like. But sometimes man and sometimes woman, that is not proper. Such awkward thing cannot be allowed. It will be disturbing to others. Anyway, continue to chant Hare Krishna as much as possible. I hope this meets you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS/ps

While I do not accept genetics as the basis of one experiencing life in any sexualy mode I do accept they have some role to play. I can't see clearly enough to separate it all out. Thinking developes genes and then those genes influence thinking. But I have heard that alot of estrogens are being added to our food supply in varying ways and I think this may be contributing to the feminization of the Western male. Just another reason to eat organic.

I was just jokin' around a bit.

That's a common and erroneous rumor. Hitler was a sausage man.

Thanks Shradha. I printed them out for later reflection and use. Hare Krsna

be careful of wild unsubstantiated rumours Priitaa. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I wonder if I have ever bowed down, I know my body has and does. But my consciousness...? Well that may be another matter. I have never heard of people being questioned and qualified before they are allowed to buy tulsi beads. Do you mean neck beads or chanting beads? Both? What are the questions? Are there now some standard questions?A formal questionaire or something?

Thanks Myra for that extensive knowledge. I printed a copy for layer reference. I hoped you rewarded yourself with an extra ZITI, you deserve it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Jaya Yashua Jaya Krsna

I personally don't believe in it. I see all karma as individual. It appears to be collective as it seems the gods will assemble a number of individuals together for a certain disaster. But if we look closer we see that within that collective each persons experience was still unique. Just yesterday I saw a story of the current fires in southern California. We can say that all those in that area had some collective fire karma but yet the story I saw was of one house in a neighborhood that was still standing while all those around it, including directly on each side of it, were burnt to the ground. Why the difference? Just my speculations. No shastra to offer.

I am not sure if you are in this position or not. But if you are you should not feel discouraged from chanting. We are all carrying heavy baggage from our past, that is from time immemoriable. We all got drawn into this confusing material atmosphere following the pipe dream of being the Enjoyer. So you are not alone in that. There are universes filled with us.

Well I hope there is a place where thinking and feeling harmonize. We are all in a difficult stage. We think wrongly and feel wrongly and always in differing and conflicting ways. For now it seems more productive to increase and be lead primarily by our intellect, but if it doesn't lead us to a place where we are ruled by pure love we will have to question if we had been intelligently led or not. But ordinary human feelings needn't be turned off even during this phase. just that they should submit and be keep in check by the intelligence. Mr. Spock was out of balance a bit.

We are all mostly still in the offensive stage of chanting. With few acceptions just beginners. Long ago I read where the word for name in the New Testament, as in "In the Name of the Lord", actually meant 'in the nature of'. I am not sure if that is true but it would make much sense. This is the pure name or suddha-nama which is the actual name of God that flows forth from the purely devoted. Do you know if that is true about the word for name in the NT? ps what is a ZITI? And why did I become hungry just by you mentioning it.

Maybe this version is more clear. Exodus 20 :: New International Version (NIV) The Ten Commandments 1 And God spoke all these words: 2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. 12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. 13 "You shall not murder. 14 "You shall not commit adultery. 15 "You shall not steal. 16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." --------------- I can think of a couple of ways we misuse the Lord's name. We can chant His name to obtain some material thing or goal, from a couple of dollars on up to being awarded some demi-god status. We can also chant the Lord's name with the aim of ridding ourselves from sinful reactions we are doing at the same time instead of praying to be free from our offensive tendancies. We can chant with the expectation that we are using the Lord's name to merge into the impersonal absolute Brahman instead of chanting to be merge into attitude of pure love for Him. I see this commandment to be right in line with Indian teachings on Vaisnavism. Here is another good topic for a book by some vaisnava scholar who wants to share this principles with Christians, the Ten Commandments and how they link up with Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy.

It's from the old gospel hymn Amazing Grace. Topic lost topic found? Anyway it deserves its own thread.

I am confused as to what you disagree with with?

You have to read things in the context of how they are meant. Just as in ordinary conversation throughout the day. Suppose at birth your parents called you John. Later you learn you are spiritsoul and John really just refers to the adopted desigination you took on at birth. It's not really YOUR name. Next day you find yourself being questioned by a police officer for some reason and he demands your name. Do you then start speaking aham brahmasmi( I am spirt) to him or do you just say John. See what I mean? Actually this whole universe is abnormal when we consider that the normal position of the soul is to be in conscious realtion with Krsna in Vaikuntha. But still when it gets hot in summer we say it is normal. When it rains in winter it is normal. We must consider the context.

but now am found... Myra, I have also wondered alot about what was meant by this. I know in Krsna consciousness they speak of a beginning stage of chanting the Lord's name call the offensive stage. I wonder if anyone can help if there is a correlation. What does it mean to take the Lord's name in vain? Hmmm...?

But even if genes are a cause what comes before the genes? Why are the genes formed in one way over another? Why is one person born in a body with a certain genetic code while another soul enters a body with a completely different genetis structure? My belief is once these connections are properly understood that understanding while take away the fear and ridicule that these people face without having to have all the rest of humanity start pretending its a normal and natural thing.

I apolgize for causing admin 5 to feel the need to edit my previous post. I can't remember my exact wording but I assume it was rather blunt. I'll try to be more diplomatic. I believe such demons that provide killing the unborn for money should be subjected to the death penalty.