maadhav

gokul, i think you are sarcastic here. yes, it gave me a laugh too.

<< even chaitanya subdued a muslim kazi. -with samkirtan and explanations >> no, but a large mass of united followers of chaitanya coming to kazi's place with burning flaming torches in their hands subdued the kazi. this pissed off the kazi, not the sankirtan. the demand to kazi was that "we have the right to do sankirtan." no muslim ever has been subdued by sankirtan or chanting. no one ever will. if you do not belive this, then go to some talibanis and try to subdue them by sankirtan. (dont do it, you may not come alive.) only the might, in one form or another is something the barabrians respect. << so killers and murderers under allah's name against killers and murderers under ram's name where's the difference? >> it seems you fail to understand the difference between the armies of kauravas and that of pandavas. talk first to the aggressor invaders, not the victims of the invaders. you have missed to notice my first choice - that of removing the barbaric ideology from the vedic homeland. it is ok if you fail to understand my effort. some do, and will. or may be, you will understand some later time/life. you can say the same for me. have a nice day. subdue a muslim, or, inspire him to give up islam (first).

thanks. i agree what you said. << This was done for other Hindu groups such as Swaminarayan, whose 'Vachanamritam' was re-written by monks of his order for common people to understand. >> all swaminarayam litrature is in old gujarati. some part like shikshapatri (only some 220 verses) is in sanskrit. the original language (old gujarati) of sahajananda swami is very sweet and full of love for the listeners. it has loving flavor of the local culuture of kathiawar ( saurashtra) now a part of gujarat. this sweeetness is very difficult to translate in any language. I tried to read its english translation, but did not like it for that reason. most of sahajananda's followers were vilalge people, illeterate, some vilalge heads, some merchants, some skileld workers like carpenters, hardy any scholars. therefore sahajanand spoke in a way that all can understand him. this is in complete contrast to aurobindo, who did not have an audience in mind when he wrote it (yes he wrot ea lot, and hardly lectured). he simply put his own realization in enghish words.

prabhupada has said that thewestern civilization is blind, and current easten (vedic) is lame. so, mutual cooperation is beneficial for both. below is the word of the vedas saying the same, that the spiritual progress is of the first importance. ----------------------- upa no vaajaa adhvaramR^ibhukshaa devaa yaata pathibhirdevayaanaiH. yathaa yaj~nam manushho vikshvaarUsu dadhidhve raNvaaH sudineshhvahnaam .. ## Rg. 4.37.1 ## O pioneers of roadcraft and aircraft, come to aid our benevolent deeds by paths meant for divinities. O gracious pioneers, maintain the tradition of work and worship among mankind for securing prosperity all the days. Rg. 4.37.1

<< So Tulsidas has no parampara before him? Does Vivekananda? Does Aurobindo? >> it is better when one is in an bonafide parampara. krishna recommends it. however, there are some exceptions. mahabharata shows that it is posisble to learn without a guru in a parmpara, but it is not recommended as the best way. Tulasidas was not in a parampara, but he was a devitee/discpile of hanumanji. now if hanumanji favors him, who are we to not love tulasidas? his greatest conribution was that he gave ramayana directly to the common village people in their own vernacular language. he broke the monopoly of the barhmanans (who knew sanskrit) to tell what ramayana teaches. vivekananda had a guru -ramakrishna- but he did not accept a guru parampara. instead he had several gurus, one after another. by his own direct experience he realized that all the different vedic paths lead to same god, sooner or later. he even practice islam (bud did not do jihad) and found it a good path also. (so, any muslims who does not follow islam as he did, must not live in india.) aurobindo loved the motherland devbhoomi and its vedic culture first. he learned/realized god through the vedas and some literature of past gurus. he is a greatest yogi of our times, but his writings are very difficult to understand for common people. sometimes his sentences are half or a page long and with difficult and uncommon words. unless one reaches to some height of progress, one cannot understand his message. << What happened to Sage Vyas' sampradaya? Or even Valmiki's? >> we have sampradayas that carry their message. BTW, valmiki did not inaugarate any sampradaya. << It a guru has no parampara does this make his words less unauthorative? >> yes, and no. yes, because that sets a wrong example that there is no need for a guru. consequently many gurus spring up without a parampara and cause total chaos. no, because it is possible to get realization without being in a parmpara. some do, and if you can find one genuine realized peson like that, then you can benefit from his/her assocaition. a right thing to do is that any one who realizes god independent of any sampradya, should pick a guru even after realization, to be a part of a parampara. this then will set an example for common people. just as one can learn mathematics or physics without going to a teacher, even though it would be very difficult, one can realize god too without going to a living guru in a parampara. it is wise to accept a guru, soooner or later. hope it helps.

<< he kills in allah's name you will kill in krsna's name.. >> and i say you do it too, else you will not have any freedom to chant and dance. i really believe so. you will not have any temple or altar of your choice even in your home. you and i both are kafirs, and we have a common enemy. guru, sadhu, and shastras are the guides for the vedic people; not just a guru. so, you are free to assume i do not have guru. the reality is different. nether you or your guru offers any soluton to protect the interests of the vedic people. instead you waste a lot of time to oppose who do offer a solution. despite the differences, i respect other gurus, but i must tell the truth as it is even if it sounds disrspectful, as i know it in my bones. all the vedic gurus need to unite against the barbaric ideology. make your mission to wipe out the barbaric ideology from the face of earth. if you ever think that arjun and his army was a group of barbarians then you are missing the message of gita. (if chaitanya is krishna, then first focus on the message of gita, not on chaitanya charitamrita) even chaitanya subdued a muslim kazi. did you or your guru subdue a muslim? if not, why waste time arguing with the hindus? they did not invade any country. they did not forcily convert any one, not even a HK. guru devo bhava matri devo bhava pitri devo bhava aacharya devo bhava asato maa sat gamaya satyam param dhi mahi

<< i choose that terrorism is a police and government problem, not religious problem, >> yes, some think like this, but this is wrong thinking. it seems you are not a disciple of chanakya pandit or a kshatriya. kshatriya know better when it is a matter of governing or fighting for dharma and rashtra. if the other three varnas fail to support kshatriyas according to their guna an dkarma, then it is their failure to live by dharma. terrorism is an asymetric warfare. no government alone is able to fight it or win it. everyone needs to fight it accoriding to one's ability, else you loose the war. unity is essential to be effective. a small number of terrorists are able to terrorize the whole populations, how come so? because: - they have accepted an ideology that tells them that all kafirs must be killed or converted. - they are not free thinkers and accept what koran and hadit says. - they have leaders who encourage them to do jihad. - they have money (oil money mostly) to do terrorism. - they are united and resolute in their purpose. - they are not afraid to die doing jihad (so that they think they will enjoy sex with 72 hauris in islam haven). now, if the kafirs unite and almost every one, or even 30 % of the kafirs unite, then with the same determination and cooperative effort they can wipe out terrorists from their land. it is very easy for them to cause great terror in a community that is dis-united. you are a kafir (or a secert terrorist who has interest to keep the kafirs disuined). so unite all the kafirs against the terrorists. just chanting and dancing cannot make one smart in the strategies of warfare. nore one can undersand the enemy and his strategies. have some respect for kshatriyas and kshatriya dharma.

<< So, in short I believe we need not look for God elsewhere but in ourselves. We are the Gods everyone is seeking and we are also the Devil who is hated by the righteous people. And so friends, my advice to you today is do good deeds and become God coz the haven is within us and not elsewhere. >> wow, am insigificant jiva in the gigantic creation thinks not only he is god, but all are gods? if you are a god of the muslims, tell them, and see the reaction. go na a mosque and do so. if you are god, then make the ben ladin and party to give up jihad. if you cannot do any of these, then never pretend you are god, and never tell the hindus. barney, you have multiple or mixed personality. i do not like your above post. it does not say what krishna has said in gita. no vedic scripture has said heaven and hell are within us. although there is a point in such a statement. we who have heaven within us, need to take out the hell out of those who live by the barbaric ideology of the desert. else that heaven within us has no use. those who have hell within them will put us in hell pretty soon. no, they already have.

<< Are you afraid that if the Hindus unite, then that will be some danger for you or your faith? -kali yuga is going on so this is another unavoidable sign of corruption.... i do not like nationalism and fanaticism, this is a danger for all faiths. I think that indian nationalism is as fanatic and dangerous as islam, you are a little example with your various ideas to pervert varnashrama dharma and guru tattva to make war agaist muslims >> then think again. a hindu - sanatana dharmi cannot be fanatic. the history of teh hindus shows this too, in addition to the vedic scriptures. when any asric ideology causes adharma against the hindus in their ownhome land, you may choose to sit and suffer; the hindus will not, not any more. just read "hindu holocaust" post here. what solutions you and your guru propose for the hindus to protect their dharma and rashtra interests? you have resistance to pick a user name also. why so?

<< Not all Muslims are bad, >> yes, but islam is not tolerant to kafirs. the historical records of the muslims show it too. you never know when this good muslim will turn bad. and who know if his children will be good/tolernt?

dear guest, your responses to atanu are very good. pleas pick a user name. that helps. the debate above is the style of debate the vedic people have done many times in public and without any violenec and animocity. the rule was that one who realizes hat one sarguments/points were nto right or as good as teh opponent's surrenders and acpets teh oppenet ass his/her guru. the intellectual and spiritual might of the hindus is displayed in the above dialogue. we hindus need to use same non violent might first to expose the invaded ideologies in india. please pick a user name, dear guest, so that i can give due respect to you.

assuming tht you have friendly interet to know, here is the answer about creation-annahilation. mahavishu is sleeping on the bed made of teh coil of divine serpant shesha naag with seven or more hoods. this serpant-bed is flotaing in causal ocean. shesha naaga with his hoods provides umbrella shelter to vishnu. vishu's eyes are half closed half open. he is not a sleep. he is in yoga dhayna or bliss. as vishnu reathes out slowley, from the millions of the pores of his body universes spring up like a spray. each universe has a brahma (vishnu and mahesha and al the devatas). as vishnu breathes in, these niverses annahilate and go back in the pores again. npow the question is long is the breathing cycle time of mahavishnu? this answer is given in bhagavad gita ch. 8 purport in bhagavad gita as it is by prabhupada. see http://www.asitis.com the time is very long and many smaller creations and destructions happen in it. thus there is cycle of creation within creation, many times. eveni n our small life we can see creation happening and so can see destruction happening. do we worry about it? no. we do as krishna has said in gita. do we resist destruction? yes, if any asura tries to destroy. do we obstruct creation? yes, if any asur tries to create some weapons of mas destruction. do we stay neutral? yes, in many other cases.

dear guest, please pick a user name. that helps. << Dont they have anyother place to build the mosque? Why should it be on a demolished temple or opposite to a temple? >> i know you know the asnwer, but here it is: they cannot stand the existance of any other religion than islam because their book koran says so. in islam there is no free will or free thinking, or humanistic attitude. most brains that grow in desert are like that. they know desert life is harsh. so they do not have soft feeligns towards any others except the islam or msuslims. they know if is very comfortable living in countries like india with rivers and fertile lands and paradise like kashmir. so, they are jealous, and want to take all over by the word of koran - all is allah's property - and the kafirs have illegally possed it. not only they want to take away of everything that belongs to kafirs (non muslims) but they want to also take their women and their freedom to choose any other religion. these barbaric teachinngs of koran and hadith must be exposed to the world, so much, made so well known, that a same person whold feel shame to say "i am a muslim" or "i like islam". a person named ali sina was born muslim, but when he read koran, he said that he does not like it. he gave up islam and became a humanist. his web page is: http://www.golshan.org i do not know if it still exists. so, please help expose islam and unite the hindus. Thanks.

<< but it is false because there's many dharmas and they are put together with nothing in common >> i do not know why some one chose teh subject of this hread "zxcvbnm". There is no relation of a string if keyborad keys with what we are talking here. now let me respond to teh above quote. - The vedas are the common scriptures all the hindus share. - Tolerance towards all the vedic sampradayas is something all the hindus have common. - All the Hindus know that theri mother land or theland of their ancestors is Bharatvarsha or now called India. - All the hindus respect - consider holy the mountains and rivers of India. - All the Hindus joufully visit all and any Hindu place of pilgrimage - yatra dhama. - All the Hindus respect Ramayana and mahabharata scriptures - All the Hindus know that all the 18 puranas, six phiposophies, sutras, upanishads, are all Hindu scriptures - vedic scriptures. - All the Hindus know that the vedic culture grew from India. - All the Hindus should know that aryan is not a race. any one who lives by a path given in the veidas is an aryan. - All the Hindus understwand that there is a soul in every living being,and that soul is eternal. - Most Hindus are theists, and do not consider atheists as pagans or kafirs - to be hated or persecuted. Why you neglect so much common thigns of the Hindus? Are you afraid that if the Hindus unite, then that will be some danger for you or your faith? what interet you have in keeping the Hindus disunited?

many thanks for the post, dear guest. please pick a user name. it help communicate better. without it, any imposter can write on your behalf, and against your view points as a 'guest'.

literrally, tattva meand essnece. it also means fundamental basic material.

communication becomes difficult without a name. suppose if all were "guests" then it becomes confusing to understand who talks to whom. your parents gave you an name for that reason. the world uses it. your bank knows your name. so do your friends.

i agree.

the question is not clear. if you mean the end of the world - total annahilation - then it is no where near.

why are you so scared to pick a user name please? are you afraid that some rationale may make you agree with my viewpoint?

just as the sky or the sun is for all, all can benefit from it, and it is impartial to any one, similarly sanatana dharna or Hinduism is for all human beings. becaue the human beings - different people - have different mix of knowledge and ignorance and different gunas, and samskras, hinduism provides different ways to realize god or go to god or understand god, and live sin-free. one does not need to practice all the yogas simultaneously. he just needs to pick one that is best for him. then after he should practice that yoga- sadhana - seriosly. while doing so, one respects all other yogas. one who does this is a hindu. in contrast the religions of the world usually talk of no god, or one god, one way, etc. and are organized to convert the whole world - even by force - like islam is. hinduism gives full freedom to one to pratice any yoga at any time more or less. no hindu has interest to convert any one by force. so this is dharma, not a religion as is understood by the word religion- a set of belifs. actually there is no exact word in sanskrit for religion and vice versa. religon word is an approximate but deficient translation of the word dharma. hinduism is inherently secular. but this secularism is not what is understood by most. most secular countries actually encourage one to become an atheist. hinduism in contrast allows all ssects- yogas- worships - freely, as long as none tries to check disrespect the freedom of the other. hinduism does not approve the invaded ideologies that are anti-vedic in principle. it is sad that the current india gov. allows it. the hindus need to fix this.

<< if you do not want to talk i have no problems >> i have not said i do not want to talk. the differences cannot be resolved without taling. the need is to unite, not divide. so pick a user name and we can talk.

the war on terrorism is the WW III. every onon-muslims is a target. therefore, every kafir needs to fight in any way possible. this is called assymetric warfare.

jiva has a mind. a soul with some dessires is a jiva. mind makes desires. it wanders around (jumps from one thought to another) if not kept in control. you can control your mind. make it think what you want it to think. the process of advancing spiritually by controlling /focussimg nind is calld dhyana yoga. you are the soul, the jiva with a body and a mind.

please pick a user name. then we can talk.