maadhav

thanks raguram-an ji! :-) let's keep up.

<< So there are certain rituals, that are followed. So let us not feel bad or question about that. There should be some reason behind all this. Our elders have lot of experience. So let us respect the rules they have set for us. >> i agree, but we need to help them give up such discrimination. god, gurus, sadhus, shastras are for all who respect them. as i hae said in other thread, we hindus have work to do, internal as well as external.

gokul bhai, maanu chhu.n ke tame sachu.n bolo chho. em hoy to aa bahu duhkh ni vaat chhe. teo aavu.n na kare te maate prayatno karavaa joiye. teo paNa vaishnava chhe. temni saathee ver karavaathi koi phayado nathi.

<< this is horrible because religious freedom is almost all over the world >> could not agree, because: 1) hardly any muslim country allows any other religion than islam on their land. whenislam invades other lands, it destroys local religious infrastructure and religious leaders and followers. else it makes them pay jiyaz - tax- becausse they are non muslims. have you lived in saudi arabia? what youknow aobut the law there? did you make any complaint to them or otheres about it? did they ever listen? saudis say to india that they will not allow a non muslim ambassador, and the foolish gov. agreed. why they not say to US teh same? 2) the world does not care for us, just as you do not care for anything but your own moksha or self realization. india is a sovereign country, not a slave. that means we have all the freedom and right to do whatever we want to be happy. we do not owe to the world anything in the matter. it is strictly our own internal business. << and because the fact that ones not hindu does not mean that he's anti hindu >> yes, as long as he is not a muslim or a xian in india. these two religions cannot stand the existance of any other religion as per their BOOKS. so, to allow an ideology that is up to wipe out sanatana dharma (SD) is very foolish. is it hard for you to agree on this point? it does not need more than common sense to understand it. it needs some love for dharma to understand it. << the other ones are simple rules and they are comprised in religious freedom principle, >> and we give maximum freedom. parsis, jains, sikhs, and buddhists live happily with the hindus. we have no problem with them. any religion that (by its Book) can tolerate SD, is (will be) happily allowed on the vedic land. if the muslim countries can have only one religion as the legal religion, then what is so bad in making islam only (and xianity) illegal in india? there is a good reason to do it as i gave above. << any anti religion activity cannot be allowed (if this activity does not harm anyone) >> this is an oxymoron. anti means one that harms. what you want to say, perhaps, is that any activity that is anti-hindu (not other than hindu) cannot be allowed. then i agree. << justice is to judge one by one, terrorism is to kill cathegories and groups >> justice is served when we adopt right constitution and make right government accoding to sanatana dharma. to think that terroris is a small criminal activity not not a holy war -jeehad - asymettri warfare is a big mistake. it requires a bit of kshatriya mind to understand this. << hinduism is not sanatana dharma >> yes, you can think so. but hindu have right to identify (give name to) sanaana dharma as hinduism and live by the dharma. << and there's not a common dharma among hinduists..>> you will not understand the hindu commanalities. i have listed them once. we have many things common, common enemy being one. there is no 'hinduist' word in dictionary. you or some one has made the word and have given some meaning which i do not know. usually the anti hindus use such a word to show hate, i think. << so you haven't any base to make india a theocratic state like iran >> i do, many do, many hindus will realize it, and you will see it. theocratic hindu (varnasrami) state is quite different than theocretic other religion state. this is because hinduism is inherently tolerant to a variety of faiths. it just cannot (and never should) tolerate one that is enemy to hinduism by one's BOOK. in the past the hindus did make a mistake of tolerating it, and we learned that that was the greatest foolish thing we did. not any more now. hindus are waking up. again, pick a user name. or better, get the points.

i am pleased you coul understand my point. all hindus sooner or later would agree to it ( convincing muslims of india to give up islam.) to kill is the last and unpleasant choice for the hindus. please help other hindus to understnd and act on this.

every land (counry) has law. it is called the law of the land. usually these laws are more or less conforming to the dharma of the land. what we need in india is dharma of the land- sanatana dharma - also known as hinduism. this means that no law there could be anti-hindu because the land is the cradle of hinduism. one who is born there could become a good hindu, but will not be allowed to be an anti-hindu (muslim or xian). the above rule is generally followed within premises of any temple. if you go in a temple, you cannot do any activity that is against the diety that is there, or is agains the congregation. now expand the concept to the whole land of india. india is a devabhoomi. the whole country is a vast hindu temple. yes, it is. therefore, anti-hindu activity cannot be allowed any where there by law.

<< you are thinking at muslims but the real danger is not muslims >> i see no evidence to believe it. you see, i have taken millions of births. now if i have to take a few more to do what is right, then i do not mind it. i am not in a hurry to go to heaven when islam is making hell here which your any my children will suffer. but you will not understand it.

<< Krishna said to abandon all forms of "religion" (including so called hinduism i believe) >> The above is an oxymoron. Gita is the book of sanatana dharma whose new name is hinduism. krishna did not say give up following my word when he said abandon all variety or dharma. additionally when he said sarva dharmaan parityajya then by the word dharma he meant dharma of brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya, and shudra. if a shudra gives up his dharma of serving other three castes and surrenders to krishna, then krishna says - yuddhaaya krita nischaya. so he has to fight adharma. one who surredsers to krishna needs to do what krishna says in gita. else it is not a surrender. get it?

yes, jai sri ram! please be specific. what solutions you are proposing? ram was a kshatriya. when asuras were disturbing rishis doing yagnas, rame killed the asuras. i am proposing to not kill the muslims of india but to really persue them to give up islam. additionally, no law of india should be anti hindu and pro muslim.

one more thing. the shuddhi karan yatra need armed volunteers to protect the yatris. else those muslims who do not like the yatra will attack and kill many hindus. even police protection is needed. another way to really make teh muslims to give up islam is to bycott them completely economically. never buy or sell any product or service to a muslim until he/she gives up islam formally. choose a day from which all the hindus will do it. even if many just prepare for this, then some muslims wil give up islam becore it is placed in action. economics is a mighty tool. it is non violent. DO IT, please.

<< You guys are talking like all muslims in the world are bad, which is not.>> yes, only as long as they do not follow koran and hadith seriously. in contrast, a hindu is good to the extent he follows gita.

<< Islam is bad because of its intolerable nature against the "Non Muslims", if we try to change that >> you cannot change the koran and hadith. you have no authority, no muslim looks up to you as allah or mohammed. you can get rid of it by exposing its barbaric nature, so that no one would accept it. make a law that says no one has any religion at birth. let all study hinduism and a couple of other religions till high school graduation. then at gratudation they can pick a religion of their choice. but not islam if they choose to live in india. if this is done, i believe most will not pick islam.

<< mysteriously you adamantly do not pick a usr name to confuse the discussion. --this possibility is given to me from the structure of this forum.. let moderators or web masters to do this job, you are one like me >> i have a uniqie user name, you do not. pick one and we can talk more. you are not a casual visitor here. you live here. so better to have a username. if this little thing is difficult for you to understand, then i doubt if you would be able to understand my other points, but i would try sincerely if you pick a user name. till them i have my good reasons for what i say, and i really believe in them. i could explain, but one who does not want to understand, will never understand it.

<< you are constantly thinking at muslims, >> lakshmana was constantly thinking of ravana, and arjun was constantly thining of duryodhan. bush is constantly thinking of ben ladin.

<< hinduism means something different to every indivisual who claims to follow it. Essentially hinduism can be whatever you want it to be! >> gita is THE BOOK OF HINDUISM, PERIOD. have you ever read gita? none of hindu aacharya has said like you said above. apparently you are not a hindu or do not know it enough.

europe learned somethings from arabs and arabs from the vedic people of india. but neither arabs nor the europe or the west has any interest to give any credit for anything to the hindus. just see an example: they complain that indians are taking away their jobs. how so? no indian came with a gun to take way any job. it is the americans who open their businesses in india and employ top experts at very low wage. so are the indias helping in giving cheap and quality service or are they a threat for jobs? besides, globalization was not india's choice. vice/virtue, intelligence, skills, knowledge, is no one's monopoly. xians however think it is only their monopoly. how many here undersand the US rationale behind globalization please? for those who do not know it is this: when countried trade with each other, then they become dependent on each othrer. this dependency then make it impossible to go on war with a trading partner. but the side effects are very pain full too. trade is also caried on at war footing. it will crate a lot of unemployment too. thus as krishna indicated in gita, wars cannot be avoided. it could be transformed from one type to another type, for some time. so, in my view it is better to remain self sufficient and fight asuras as needed.

<< "krsna is not god, krsna is not real, he's a projection of your unconscious mind to help you realize that you're impersonal brahman", >> please give a quote for any advaita authority. i do not think the above quote is form any. still, true advaita (gyan yoga) does exist since the time of brahma, and even krishna mentions it. read the first verse of gita ch. 1. << at bhaktivinoda thakur's time there was jail for who were saying to be god and before there were death penalty >> please quote from some books that record facts. nothing like what you said above has happened in the vedic society. now, if the ruler is a muslim and if some one says he is god, sure he will meet death. hindu society is not such.

<< Basically AIT is the most abominable hoax perpretrated on the indians >> yes. genius of the britons. but we need to get out of that illusion quickly and re-discover ourselves, or rather sef-realize who we are, what is our dharma and what we need to do.

since you said jai sri ramchanra, i would think that you are not a muslim or xian. and it seems you like sanatana dharma. and still we have difficulty understanding other. at this time i think that you are not born on the vedic land. being so, you have no attachment to the land. you also will argue that attachment to land is not good spiritually, and i cannot deny it technically. you are not giving solution to the problems i see, and are not willing to accept solution i propose,and distory the interpretation of my messages. mysteriously you adamantly do not pick a usr name to confuse the discussion. so, what you wish about me? what you wish about the hindus? what you wish about India and their people? what you do or propose to do to wipe out evil ideologies? again, pick a user name and give some definite respose.

<< Hinduism is just a term coined by various invaders >> not various. the muslims coinded the word hindu and used it to mean the people living on the east side of river sindhu. the dharma of these people has been known to them hindus since milleniums. that name is sanatana dharma or varnasrama dharma. this includes vaishnavism. (note that HK's reject all "isms" except vaishnavism.) because of muslim invader rules in india, the hindus did not mind beling called hindus. but becaue it continued for 1000 years, so, finally the hindus accept the word word hindu and hinduism meaning the same thing as sanatana dharma or varnasrama dharma. (similalry, the brits changed the name of the land to India. now we do nto want that name. we want to call it by a name Bharat.) it is a universal way of living godconsciously. it is not organized as islam and xianity is. it does not enforce hinduism upon any one. it give a lot of freedom of thought and action. but that does not mean anything can go as hinduism. there are scriptures and aacharyas, sadhus and swamis, a lot of them, that show what hinduism is and is not. e.g. killing cows is not hinduism. those who talk "my god and your god" are not hindus. hinduism is not limited to just one name of god or just one form of god. hinduism is not just a set of beliefs you take or reject. it is a spiritual science. the laws given there will apply to all humans regardless whether they know the laws or not. e.g. the laws of karma and re-incarnation will apply to all living beings, whether they know it or not or accept it or not. like every one else, hindus do have god given right to choose a name. so, hindus have accepted the words hindu and hinduism now to mean sanaana dharmi and sanatana dharma. now who has the pain about it? sky is blue; who has the pain about it?

<< evrything comes from sanatana dharma, and as you say sanatana dharma is more similar to christianity than some hinduist schools >> i did not say it because it is not true. it is clear that you are xian and hate hinduism. so why waste time here? go and stop the spread of islam, else there will not be any xianity.

<< he's not your enemy, your "enemy" is who says that your beloved sri vishnu is a projection of his fantasy, that vishnu is maya and when we will be advanced we will forget Him, muslims at least believe in god >> yes, i agree accept the comment about muslims. they belive in gid, but it has not helped us hindus for 1000 years. we have been slughtered and invaded and raped, etc. by them. so, their believeing in a god as described in koran is dangerous for the world. teh total islam history proves this. any one who has follen in love with a muslim or is born by a muslim may understand this, but will not agree that islam is barbaric. barbarics have no desire to discuss anything rationally.

<< at the time of mahabharata there wasn't any sign of hinduism.. all the world was vaishnava >> no. there were worshippers of siva, durga, ganesh, and surya. also there were advaitis. we have them since time time of brahma. if any one says no, then he/she needs to prove from what pont in time advaita started. adi shankaracharya did not invent it.

sanatana dharma is not the mother of islam and xianity. howeevr, you will find some commanltiy. it is the difference that has caused problems to the hindus.

what will you do with the info?