Bhakta Don Muntean

This Hoffman is - a crank a crazy a weirdo - reading this trash and then a short visit to his website - i can see what attracts lost souls of a certain 'persuasion' to his [self-described] 'revisionist' hallucinations.

...as usual you post an article and you give no personal reflections... There is a serious issue with a lack of tolerance in many of those who follow Islam and - it's not limited to just extremists either! Heck how many intolerant hare krishna's troll around - but - do simple a test - go to a muslim chat room and tell them you're into Krishna and you wish to have inter-faith dialogue - see what they say to you? To say such a thing - in a sincere discussion - isn't 'to cast aspersion' on Isalm. In fact - in the same address the Pope knocked at the history of Christianity and - he at the same time - was honest about an important point regarding the absolute nature of God - here in this point: "In all honesty, one must observe that in the late Middle Ages we find trends in theology which would sunder this synthesis between the Greek spirit and the Christian spirit. In contrast with the so-called intellectualism of Augustine and Thomas, there arose with Duns Scotus a voluntarism which ultimately led to the claim that we can only know God's "voluntas ordinata." Beyond this is the realm of God's freedom, in virtue of which he could have done the opposite of everything he has actually done...For philosophy and, albeit in a different way, for theology, listening to the great experiences and insights of the religious traditions of humanity, and those of the Christian faith in particular, is a source of knowledge, and to ignore it would be an unacceptable restriction of our listening and responding.. "listening to the great experiences and insights of the religious traditions of humanity" - sounds like a pretty respectful and inclusive estimation of other faiths to me... http://zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=94748 Of course - in the absolute sense - for God - there is no such thing as "Muslim" or "Christian" or "Jew" or "Hindu" - or whatever. Just like the sun. The sun is neither 'Hindu sun' nor 'Christian sun' nor 'Hebrew sun' nor 'Muslim sun' etc., the sun - is the sun. The sun is universal to our experience. But if we say - if we think that - because when the sun is over the heads of muslims - therefore it's the “muslim sun” - then that is a mental concoction. Sun is neither muslim nor christian nor hindu etc., - similarly - God - He’s neither exclusively for muslims nor christians nor hindus nor jews... He is for everyone. The simplest definition of dharma [religion] is that dharma is the order of the Supreme Being. Since the Supreme Being - God - is One - His Order must be One. How - then - can there be different dharmas? lt is not possible - it's only in our minds. Different dharmas are created due to ignorance - which causes people to think in terms of Hindu dharma Muslim dharma Christian dharma this dharma or that dharma. No. Gold is gold. If a Christian possesses some gold - does it become Christian gold? Gold is gold - whether possessed by a Hindu a Muslim or a Christian or - whomever. In this same fashion - God is God and - the sooner the world of faith understands this - the better. As a foot note to these points - there was this other point in the Pope's address: "...The mysterious name of God, revealed from the burning bush, a name which separates this God from all other divinities with their many names and declares simply that he is, already presents a challenge to the notion of myth, to which Socrates' attempt to vanquish and transcend myth stands in close analogy. Within the Old Testament, the process which started at the burning bush came to new maturity at the time of the Exile, when the God of Israel, an Israel now deprived of its land and worship, was proclaimed as the God of heaven and earth and described in a simple formula which echoes the words uttered at the burning bush: "I am". The fact is as i've noted in the past - in the original Hebrew - the translated "I am" - is more literally - "I am whomver I will be" - or - "I am whomever I want to be" - it's an interesting point to add about the broader implications of that text. God is "whomever He wants to be" - sounds pretty universal to me. The Pope's comments weren't insulting Islam - just read the whole address.

...this is cute so - what's the big deal? Come halloween - they aught to dress Him in a scary costume - that would be cute! He is after all the source of everything isn't He?

"practically" - a huge variable in that one - huh! The islamic revolution isn't karmic reaction nor is it providential creation of a monster to destroy another monster - this is more ill rationalization on your part here. Islamic terrorism is not caused by anything but their desire to bring on their revolution - it is an attempt by a bunch of DEMONS to impose their bent ideas - at gun point and under a hail of bombs if needed - you just don't get it [why?] and going over it again and again is a waste of time... Which of your mosters wish to kill you - the jews or the islamists - there is a hare krishna temple in israel and is there NOT one in Iran nor any other islamist nation - so why are you defending them when if they had the chance they would come to you and give you two options "convert or die"...

Oh whatever! Both of you praise the islamic revolution and both of you are in denial about the cause and intent of that islamic revolution - both of you make excuses for these terrorists - it is simple - you are supporting that which desires to slit our throats. You said that I twist your words but - your words are quite clear and so are those of kulapavana - i know it must not be easy to do this double-speak support and false-condemnations of the islamist groups - in the same breath... "It is a Vaishnavas duty to rid the world of the pestilence of these offences and there are much more effective ways of doing it that wasting time exchanging verbiage with offenders" - you only say that because I've taken apart your thin position too easily and that makes you upset - oh well - dismiss it all and think that your communist propaganda shall save everything - that is the joke here - that you think i even think you're a hare krishna - i don't think you are - i think if you were we would here more shastra from you in support of your ideas. Anyway your posting is so much hot air and as usual you fail to address the key issues - of which the center is that you and kulapavana pass off islamist terror as a reaction to israeli injustices and despite constant attempts to discuss the islamic revolution - you both refuse. You write 'their petty point scoring' - it ain't about scores it's about facts. Danny - calling us down like this doesn't change these facts. I'm certain that Prabhupada would NEVER side with you guys on these issues NEVER - just give me some quotes to support that he would [i know you don't give quotes from him]. "Those of you who rationalise the truth try your best to remove these deviants from the discussion. They degrade it with their ignorance!" Yes the heroic 'freedom fighters' you admire - the islamists - they have a program to deal with people like us - don't they...

That pasted comment of yours doesn't at all read like - "a REJECTION of BOTH sides barbaric policies and demonic actions" - it reads like this - "the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal...the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action" - that is saying that the Israelis and so many other jews are the cause of so much trouble and that were it not for them there would not be these groups reining terror on the world - again THAT is in total denial about the islamic revolution. You write: "If Israel did not have their pitbull USA 100% behind them, they would be forced to make peace with the Palestinians and other Arab nations." Again - that is in total denial of the fact that the many islamist groups do not want peace [with Israel or the rest of the non-islamist world] - they have never wanted peace and are as such - not likely to ever want peace. How can Israel make peace with people that hate them so deeply - the hate isn't just frustration it's racial and religious hate stained with radical politics. You cannot deny that there has to be a major shift in the way that the islamists view others - especially Israelis and jews. The U.S. is doing the right thing in being 100% behind them - with the noted circumstances as they are. There shall not be peace without an about-face change within the islamists and - you are not helping any such change - by saying that Islamist terrorism is in response to Israel and in that comment skirt the issue of their islamic revolution. You were the one to post the Iranian president's letter to President Bush on that other noted thread - did you read that letter? How can you miss all the Islamic revolution stuff - that has NOTHING MORE to do with Israel - than it does you. This is their program. They invented it on their own. It is not some collective karma - it is a bunch of duskritum acting like sub-demons [if that were possible] - killing and terrorizing. In reading the letter from the president of Iran - did you get any sense for what are their plans? Who is supposed to deal with that and how? What is the procedure - to counter the Islamic revolution?

Well as if i have to [again] say this - Islamic terrorism is not caused by anything but their desire to bring on their revolution - you seem to be quite hopeless - i know what you've posted and what that means and - so does most everyone else. You fail to change the valid perceptions of your 'off' position.

You're saying it again - "the anti-Palestinian slant of BDM...spreading anti-muslim propaganda" - so - here you are again - making claims without any comments from me - to evidence that claim. You do this often and each time you fail to post your proofs - funny huh... You don't post in support of muslims when you say the many things you do: "...as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal... now they are almost ready for their new target: Iran... Lord help us when that war begins... as to the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action... do you understand the law of karma, BDM? and finally: the Torah, Talmud and it's byproducts... they form the backbone of this greedy sectarianism, and justify the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god... " http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/fo...cing-us-2.html Those are your words. This is a clear support for the Islamists [not muslims] you've evidenced in your posting on - 05/02/2006: as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal...the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action Kulapavana that isn't support for Islamists - the same Islamists that wish to impose their convert or die program in places - like India? You post anti-israel postings and dare i say it - even anti-hebrew postings but - I in contrast post many things in support of Palestinians and that - God is One 'Vishnu is Allah is Yahweh' - at one time - i even expressed that i felt some of these islamist groups were maybe freedom fighters - all-be-it irregular fighters - but - how can i or anyone ignore what they say and do? You hide that within all your condemnations of my postings - over the course - I've presented a fair picture of all the groups of consequence - where in contrast - you are seen taking any and all opportunities - to rail against the Israelis or the fictional 'international jew cartel' and even the hebrew faith itself. You never point out parts of Islamic tradition and scripture that are 'off' in some manner - why not? For a recent example - everything stated with in the letter written by the Iranian president [Read it here as you posted there too Iran seeks contact with 'Great Satan'] - to President Bush should capture your attentive concern - right within that letter - he made threats to you - in expressing his plans in the future of their intended global islamic revoloution - he clearly threatens everyone who is not already one of them. Outside of Iran's leader's great delusions in terms of inducing them into readiness to radical revolution and war with the west - Iran has to make some real efforts to get along in the region and - with the world in general and - her president has to grow up and reconsider his responsibility [it must already be too late for him?] to the life and liberty of his people - not that his responsibility is to do what they are more than hinting at - attacking others. Are there terrorists in Iran - yes - without a doubt and - if the president of Iran doesn't come to understand that through his own culitvation of terror and terorists - the resultant myriad of extremists - shall one day present a group [much more extremist than him] that shall present 'the end' of his regime. That is a fault point about unstable political ideologies - at some point they are a source of great distress to those who've committed so much of themselves to that political cause. With the addition of 'radicalized' religious interpretaions it becomes evermore worse in it's reactive nature. Presently - as it is - Islamic theocracy may sound like a good idea to some people but - in the end it isn't and - anyone with any amount of understanding can see that. When we see the nations where there are such governances - there are also terrible repressions of the people and - there are fatal repressions of those who do not agree with that form of governance - so in that respect alone - it isn't a good form of government to deal with. In those far-away places where the efforts of transplanting democracy is going on – an alternative door is being opened – however - there is too the serious danger that theocratic types may take the vote [like Hamas] and rule as though it were a tyranny - if even for four year stints. It is sad but - these islamist groups shall never repect the vedic [or any other] tradition - not enough to not eventually attack - India already has a history of suffering these attacks. Of course - this isn't Islam doing this - it's radicalized Islamists - there is quite a difference - when shall you see that? What prevents you from seeing it? It may be one thing if others don't respect your faith and yet - quite another - if they present you with a program of "convert or die" - no respect for you - because of your faith and - later - no life either. Thus the demons, being fond of disastrous activities, took Hiranyakasipu’s instructions on their heads with great respect and offered him obeisances. According to his directions, they engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings. [sB 7.2.13] This is what these Islamic revolutionary types are like - these present day terrorists - being fond of disastrous activities - they'll take an islamic revolutionary's leader's instructions on their heads with great respect and according to their directions - they'll engage in envious activities directed against all living beings. Clearly the events of 9/11 were 'envious activities directed against all living beings' - the plan was sinister and maledicted. These demons were pachydermal and acted heinously in killing so many people and hoping to kill more - to destabilize the global economy and - why? You have to admit that your words in saying that - 'the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to... the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them' - is only so much efforts to try to rationalize an invalid situation for these terrorists and terrorism in general - what to speak being incredibly unfair to the 'target' group. You say that I do not comment on other threads but - that isn't true either and you know it - i've been a member here since early November 2001 and - you - only since September 2003. Or is Kulapavana your most recent 'handle'? When you write "...spreading anti-muslim propaganda...That is the ONLY reason they are here...they are just a part of the propaganda machine" - that is so funny - because - not all propaganda is bad - it depends of the facts evidenced in that propaganda. You are manifestly uderpinning the islamist's cause [not muslims] - in ways that are alarming to sincere vaishnavas [and others] and - on that basis - you present to the general reading public - especially those who are not conversant with our tradition - an unfair and - inaccurate appearance of support for the islamist's activitites and their general revolutionary program. How can I [or others] not reply in defense of the truth in this connection? I intend you no disrespect - but you need to see these facts... - Here is a post - I've long ago posted - when I was more 'liberal': [i first posted this all over the web more than two years ago] [This was emailed to world leaders as well] Alas it's been long "published" -- and as suspected it falls more than somewhat short - the "Road Map" is seemingly unrealistic - FIRST; it's 'time-lines' aren't 'timely' enough - SECOND: there's the document's overt focus on the Palestinian's latest 'Uprising' - it thus places far too many of the responsibilities on the Palestinians - for the provocation, the violence, and - its end - before steps to resolution of the causative issues themselves - [the Road Map Plan avoids a delving 'deeper' into the underlying issues themselves!]. ---- Thus the 'semi international' "Road MapPlan" does NOT outline in any detail its purposed [resolution] methods - nor even present 'suggestions' on how the parties are to going to deal with these issues - [really it's a plan - without a plan!] - all we are told is that 'later' in a projected "phase three" [in 2005] there will be convened - an "International Conference", to decide the issue of Jerusalem and 'final borders' for both States [just see the pointlessness of a Plan which speaks of 'final borders' which we already know are going to have to be [as far as possible] a non fragmented 50/50 cut - and that's it, that's all!?]. ---- The "Road Map" Plan reads: "...a negotiated resolution on the status of Jerusalem that takes into account the political and religious concerns of both sides, and protects the religious interests of Jews, Christians, and Muslims worldwide...". ---- This Road Map is sounding like it's navigating into the general direction of a FAILED [in theory and practicality] U.N. Resolution - (#181) [drafted in 1947] - certainly not withstanding everyone's best intentions - an 'International Jerusalem' city-state will not be a workable 'Regional' entity! ---- A logical and fair solution - as outlined within our Peace Plan [in this string] suggests looking at these issues - within a timely manner - with a realistic regard to the Rights of ALL the peoples in THAT Region - i.e.: the Middle East Region - specifically, Rights of the the Middle East populations - to a 'peace and security' - certainly has precedent over ANY - "religious interests" [centered on the region] of 'others' residing "WORLDWIDE"! It seems a simple logical point? ---- Further the most important religious "interest" of - "...Jews, Christians, and Muslims worldwide..." - should be REAL PEACE for those living in the Region - otherwise 'what' is the meaning to their ideas of a far-away 'Holy Land'? ---- When looking into the past and future of these issues - we can see 'continuous adjustments' have been made by these parties [Palestine and Israel] to cope with each other - thus having at least 'that' as a positive commonality - here is a simple arrangement for them to consider serving as a basis for a fair concession: ---- "...part of the 'Justice' here naturally demands that Jerusalem is going to have be [again] a fully Israeli City...Palestine must receive [without debt] as *'instantly*' as possible - a comprehensive new "State of the Art" Capital City...". [*a "right of return" concession may be bridged through this Plan!*] ---- So within 'that' simple 'concession' - we see the 'direction' to a proper 'resolution' on this Jerusalem issue - of course our Peace Plan [which was sent to various World Leaders] clearly outlines 'how' this HISTORIC "move" should be undertaken - we see no point in suggesting a Plan without practical methods to meet its end! One location posted here: http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/hinduism/25972-day-will-i-make-jerusalem-burdensome-stone-all-peoples.html So that says it all?

This is a clear support for the Islamists you've evidenced in your posting on 05/02/2006: "...as to the Israelis and all the Jews alligned with them: this is the hand that has been stirring Middle Eastern pot for decades, hoping for a nice, mostly free, meal... now they are almost ready for their new target: Iran... Lord help us when that war begins... as to the islamic terrorism: it is simply a reaction to the above mentioned action... do you understand the law of karma, BDM? and finally: the Torah, Talmud and it's byproducts... they form the backbone of this greedy sectarianism, and justify the materialistic desire to subjugate others by force in the name of our own god... " http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/world-review/42797-bush-greatest-danger-facing-us-2.html Yes there is a great deal errant in your posted position...

That's not any answer and - you know it! You seem to think that Islamists are only concerned with a palestinian state - but - that isn't the case in the least - they have hijacked that conflict and they intend to use it to further their plans - to destroy the state of Israel and - more. You mention that Hamas 'provides them with life needs' - really - what they are doing is using a bastardized form of socialism - to brainwash the palestinians [socialism is partly how Hitler induced the German people to follow him from atrocity to atrocity]! So Kulapavana - there is a good question here - would the palestinian peoples be so supportive of Hamas - without Hamas' socialism - as a bartering chip - if it were only the irregular fighting - [terror program] being offered them - would they be so accepting of these 'freedom fighters'? I do doubt it! That Kulapavana - is why Hamas is buying the populations of palestine - in the noted manner...the islamists need this conflict to manipulate the muslim world and the palestinians [obviously] have need of leadership - only the Palestinian people get the contaminated crap end of the deal in that arrangement. Of course - there shall be a palestinian state in the future - I humbly ask you - on what basis do you think that formation of the state of palestine - how do you think that is going to induce the islamists to accept real peace and - accept the right for Israel to exist - what to speak of giving up their 'convert or die' pogrom which they wish to induce on as much of the global populations as possible?

Would that be like when the world does nothing about the terrorist programs directed at Israel? Israel isn't keeping the situation where it is - it's the islamists - the militants who have hijacked Gaza into a hopeless 'ghetto' - do you ever ask yourself why the only 'course' that Hamas accepts - is the one that induces an end to the state of Israel? Ask yourself why Hamas Hezbollah the Taliban - Iran's regime Syria's regime and - a host of other Islamists have 'that' as the center of their program - and that is the state of affairs - while the U.N. vainly talks 'peace' but - how can there be peace when the groups of consequence - are so intent in bringing an end to the state of Israel? Of course there's the 'convert or die' aspect of their program - an aspect that they intend to enforce on ALL people - INCLUDING - you. So when you think of Gaza as a ghetto and a concentration camp - PLEASE do not forget the unbelievably adversarial positions of those who are acting as leaders and fighters - for the Palestinians. Without a doubt these are the facts. I wonder - how would you deal with - how would you either counter or resolve - such irregular fighting - as that which is being advanced by the islamist groups?

Well kulapavana - it's been awhile and still nothing - that's only because you cannot find any such comments - because i did not make such comments - so - ask if the readers question 'why' you have posted this propaganda against me and - 'why' you did so - without copy-n-pasted proof along side the accusation - ask yourself - how the readers now see it? I could still go and copy and paste some of your own [many] well known comments that are dare i say - pro-islamist

Where is the source of this revisionist reality? Care to share it?

Really now - when dealing with such irregular fighters [terrorists] - like hezbollah - what can be done?

What is the price of the 'do nothing' scenario? Arjuna had to choose not between war and peace but rather between war and another war - only the 'other' war was an inner battle - a war with the idea of fighting in the first place...of course we all know that he did fight.

...hey bud where art thou these dayz? Hope all is well in Krishnaloka!

The 'gordian knot' is going to take a collective non-sectarian approach to loosen...one that isn't going to proselytize for conversions to any one specific faith. Without a doubt a comprehensive international 'counter-propaganda' unit is what is needed and - it must be a muliti-faith effort - your specific program is a good very idea for India and area but - it isn't going to take effect in the middle east nor - in north america - the more all-inclusive need is for the noted multi-faith international 'counter-propaganda' unit. ...this war is more than a military conflict; it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century... http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060902.html

Thank-you for this update Suchandra! ...so still no answers on who did it...

So again: If Israel used such 'cluster' weapons in the last days of the war - it was only because hezbollah was engaged in the well-known practice of attacking from within and - hiding amongst - civillian populations. What are the reasons that the U.N. AND so many others have failed to understand why such groups choose such cowardly and irregular fighting practices? When dealing with such irregular fighters [terrorists] - like hezbollah - what can be done? I wonder if the U.N. is invesitgating and condemning that hezbollah loaded all their rockets with ballbearings and shrapnel plates? It should be noted that these rockets were directed at civillian population centers - where there were no IDF soldiers 'hiding out'! These rockets were not directed as a means to attack other soldiers - they were directed at civillians - with little chance of affecting the IDF - YES - hezbollah knew this and - that was their heinous plan - kill as many Israeli civillians as possible.

So - why is it like this? Can these places ever embrace freedoms? Could these issues ever be an issue for devotees in other nations?

Still no copy-n-paste - so - either you're lazy or - you're a prevaricator or - both. Didn't i tell you that that was how you would reply? Why would you make such an accusation and then skulk-out on proving your comment? I wonder if yer trying to get readers [who haven't read my postings] - especially muslim readers - to look down on me?

Your preaching is out of touch with reality - no doubt about it kulapavana..

Well kulapavana - that's only because you cannot - because i did not - so - i just want to ask the readers to question 'why' you have posted this propaganda against me and - 'why' you did so - without copy-n-pasted proof along side the accusation - ask yourself - how the readers are going to see it? I could go and copy and paste some of your own [many] well known comments that are dare i say - anti-semitic.

...i hope this thread don't end-up getting locked later today...hint hint to everyone [including me!!!] to try to be somewhat cordial in our postings!