Bhakta Don Muntean

The points you make are quite valid - however - it isn't so simple as 'get your house in order first' - because the irregular fighters are not going to wait for that - they most certainly are looking for any inattention to them and their program. Of course - in order to fight these irregular fighters the west has to do so - as agents of justice and - not as counter-points. It may be a subtle differnce but - the line is there nonetheless. Without doubt - the message that Krishna gives to Arjuna on the Battlefield could be best imbibed by our own western leaders right now as they - like Arjuna - are confronted with many nasty contradictons and - many other conflicts and confusions within this fight - as it relates to duty and responsibility. I could say that the islamist irregular fighters could also read and learn Gita but - we know that shall not happen. For them 'vedic' is 'infidel'. Prabhupada says: ...This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [sB 1.17.28, purport] Would you not say that the islamic revolution has come to exemplify the activities of Kali and the irregular fighters who forward it are "persons influenced by the age of Kali" - also please consider this: Thus the demons, being fond of disastrous activities, took Hiranyakasipu’s instructions on their heads with great respect and offered him obeisances. According to his directions, they engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings. [sB 7.2.13] So Hiranyakasipu’s instructions were delivered to 'terrorists' in that they were 'fond of disastrous activities' and with the encouragement of a demonic leader they readily 'engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings' - in the same way that the islamist irregular fighters direct terror - against citizens and - most especially - those who they dislike or - who otherwise oppose them and their irregular program. These are real issues in our world. Of course I don't want a global nightmare war - who does? Not our leaders - however the islamists - they want such a war. If they are left to their own devices they shall machinate it into reality. In SB 1.17.28 in the purport Prabhupada is very clear: This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali - so there it is. There IS an emergency in our world - our way of life has ruined this earth [in every nation] and yes - there is a lot of karma everywhere in the world but - that is not any excuse to be callous to these issues. If the islamists wake-up out of their horrific delusions and renounce their program and embrace all of God's followers and in that - respect all of God's faiths - then - we might have a hope in this hell - otherwise - if they continue with this obnoxiously adversarial position - what can the world do? Yet - the world cannot sit down and hope that they'll "get their house in order" on the plea that it might happen...if this is going to change - the ball is in the islamist's court...in that respect. For example - the president of Iran and his intense anti-semitic position - who but him can change that position? Yes you are correct in your understandings but - I think that you need to broaden your thinking - yes we must encourage everyone to change for the good - and yet we have to understand that despite all efforts - war can still take place. If we are to avert this next global war [and end global terrorism] and save the earth from a battle that would peril the planet then we are going to have to look to God and what He has told us in so many places to understand. Myself I think that God shall save the day - He shall change the hearts of people and they won't be able to get to the point of enmity that we are seeing thus far in kali yuga. This kali yuga must be understood and we do not see the practical reality that it IS the winter of time and - if we don't prepare and plan for 'storms' then - what do we do when they come? We can only affect so much - in so many ways and - it is nice that now with the internet we can reach out and connect with anyone on these message boards - who knows who may read these postings - right? So we can see an opportunity and we should advance the non sectarian message of Srila Prabhupada. Just see the purport to the above quoted Bhagavatam text 7.2.13; The discovery of nuclear energy has been disastrous to people in general because demons all over the world are manufacturing nuclear weapons. The word kadana-priyah is very significant in this regard. The demoniac persons who want to kill the Vedic culture are extremely envious of the feeble citizens, and they act in such a way that ultimately their discoveries will be inauspicious for everyone... - there it is - he wrote that a long time ago and yet - with Iran and North Korea - that is the very issue isn't it. Next time you hear of a suicide bombing or rocket attack from gaza [should be called homocide bombings actually] think of this - aren't they who do these things: demoniac persons...extremely envious of feeble citizens...being fond of disastrous activities they take instructions from bad leaders [of the likes of groups like al-Qaida hezbollah hamass islamic jihad etc., from the likes of national leaders such as the current presidents of Iran and Syria] - they take these envious instructions - on their heads - with great respect and offer these bad leaders obeisances. According to these bad leaders directions, they then engage in envious activities directed against all living beings or the otherwise feeble citizens. It is a complex issue indeed. We can hope that if we make an effort to educate people - God shall help the right people see it. Is there hope for the irregular fighters? That is their choice. Islam is a fast growing faith and the noted Islamists are using every dirty tactic to capture those who come to have faith in that path - it is imperitive that those who are moderate muslims commence an education program of their own - directed at their own. It is imperitive for moderate muslims to form even stronger ties with non-muslims in the religious world. To openly declare that they love that - "God is One and so are those who love God - no matter the Name He is called by"! If there shall ever be hope - in particular - the long seated irrational hostility and enmity of so many muslims - toward Hindus and Jews - must be repudiated - must become healed - can it happen? YS,

So how would you check global islamist activities?

Wow! Do I know you? Did I miss something - when did it happen? Are you that same person who was posting 'that other suff' a few months ago? I'm very pleased to see this 'apt' broad minded mood in you - it's very evolved from just a few months ago!

So you're saying Prabhupada made a rather stupid mistake when he wrote the Purport to SB 1.8.46 - is that what you're saying? Are there any 'other' mistakes that Prabhupada made which you think we all aught to be apprised of?

Did ya see my reply? Have nothing to reply with?

Well in Mahabharata, Adi-parva (20) it gives the numbers of 640 million - so - that is the fact - either you accept or you don't - but - that is the citation to check the numbers - do you dispute that citation? If you could think in an abstract manner - you might understand such statements as: ...all the kings and residents of the whole world became involved in this fight between the rival brothers... [sB 1.8.46, purport] So that indicates that the battle wasn't limited to the battlefield in India. That is why that battle was considered to be a 'world war' all the kings and residents of the whole world didn't travel to India for this battle but rather - the battle had to come out to them in their realms... Quote: We are talking about the historicity of a man-made book, not the Absolute Reality Reply: Is it a man made book? What part was inspired what part not? Can we then trust anything it says about God - if it cannot relate simple numbers accurately? Do you think Vyasadeva is a man-made character? If him why not Krishna too? Some say that Krishna didn't really even exist - that He was a long time literary evolution - is there any 'historicity' for Krishna?

...JUST SEE - this devotee wants to take God out of the equation... As for the 'numbers' I don't go by what wikipedia says I go by what Prabhupada says: It is said in the Mahabharata, Adi-parva (20) that 640,000,000 men were killed in the eighteen days of the Battle of Kurukshetra, and some hundreds of thousands were missing. Practically this was the greatest battle in the world within five thousand years. [sB 1.8.46, purport]

Let's take this thread back on topic please....

Me I just don't care - it's not important....

You just think we aught to pander to the islamists and let them dictate the direction that everything aught to go...

Does that please you dear guest? Is "the coming Desert Storm" a pernicious kind of euphemism for - a maledicted 'islamic revolution'?

So we hear that the democrats are going to try to pressure President Bush into some negotiations with Iran and Syria - to try to solve the Iraq insurgency. It sounds like even the 'left leaning' Tony Blair suggested such a thing yesterday [and thank goodness he seems to be resiling it today]. That some negotiations with Iran and Syria - to try to solve the Iraq insurgency - is a big mistake - because Iran and Syria are part of the problem - is scarcely difficult to understand. It is long obvious that Iran and Syria are involved in directing and arming the insurgents [just as they assisted hezbollah to rearm after that latest conflict with Israel] - so - if the western nations decide to enter into 'peace' negotiations with the leaders of Iran and Syria - it isn't because the leaders of Iran and Syria have turned aside from their obnoxiously adversarial and altogether irregular positions regarding their 'widespread' islamic revolution and - their desire for the demise of the state of Israel - if these 'negotiations' proceed with the leaders of Iran and Syria - this would serve as an acute machination towards their goals of hastening their 'widespread' islamic revolution and - their avowed desire to induce the demise of the state of Israel. It is a big mistake to enter into negotiations with the leaders of Iran and Syria - especially under these circumstances. The circumstances in which there could be talk of negotiations could not come to exist without their first having *turned aside from their obnoxiously adversarial and altogether irregular positions. Just see what a democratic president/government might do to sell out to terrorists and - for what - an impermanent flaccid peace?! *it would have to be in a most convincing fashion for the most doubting of us in the world - for those of us who would not be fooled.

I went 'righty' so - it could happen to you too

Correct.

According to the link you've just posted [and posted by me earlier] it is an even greater number than both of us are advancing: Army divisions and weaponry The combined number of warriors and soldiers in both armies was approximately 1.7 billion.<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2] </sup>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kurukshetra <sup id="_ref-1" class="reference"> </sup>

So we hear that the democrats are going to try to pressure President Bush into some negotiations with Iran and Syria - to try to solve the Iraq insurgency. It sounds like even the 'left leaning' Tony Blair suggested such a thing yesterday [and thank goodness he seems to be resiling it today]. That some negotiations with Iran and Syria - to try to solve the Iraq insurgency - is a big mistake - because Iran and Syria are part of the problem - is scarcely difficult to understand. It is long obvious that Iran and Syria are involved in directing and arming the insurgents [just as they assisted hezbollah to rearm after that latest conflict with Israel] - so - if the western nations decide to enter into 'peace' negotiations with the leaders of Iran and Syria - it isn't because the leaders of Iran and Syria have turned aside from their obnoxiously adversarial and altogether irregular positions regarding their 'widespread' islamic revolution and - their desire for the demise of the state of Israel - if these 'negotiations' proceed with the leaders of Iran and Syria - this would serve as an acute machination towards their goals of hastening their 'widespread' islamic revolution and - their avowed desire to induce the demise of the state of Israel. It is a big mistake to enter into negotiations with the leaders of Iran and Syria - especially under these circumstances. The circumstances in which there could be talk of negotiations could not come to exist without their first having *turned aside from their obnoxiously adversarial and altogether irregular positions. Just see what a democratic president/government might do to sell out to terrorists and - for what - an impermanent flaccid peace?! *it would have to be in a most convincing fashion for the most doubting of us in the world - for those of us who would not be fooled.

Hare Bolo! Did you see the specific quote? It is said in the Mahabharata, Adi-parva (20) that 640,000,000 men were killed in the eighteen days of the Battle of Kurukshetra, and some hundreds of thousands were missing. Practically this was the greatest battle in the world within five thousand years. [sB 1.8.46, purport]

Nothing to say now? Where can i find your 'living' guru's teachings? Who is your 'living' guru? Whomever he is - he cannot measure-up to the incredible devotional and scholarly standards which Srila Prabhupada presents within his books etc., if that is incorrect let's see your guru's writings to make the contrasted comparisons.

It is said in the Mahabharata, Adi-parva (20) that 640,000,000 men were killed in the eighteen days of the Battle of Kurukshetra, and some hundreds of thousands were missing. Practically this was the greatest battle in the world within five thousand years. [sB 1.8.46, purport] So that is the information that I take. Here is something of interest about the Battle of Kurukshetra: Rules of engagement The two supreme commanders met and framed "rules of ethical conduct", dharmayuddha, for the war. The rules included: Fighting must begin no earlier than sunrise and end exactly at sunset. Multiple warriors may not attack a single warrior. Two warriors may "duel," or engage in prolonged personal combat, only if they carry the same weapons and they are on the same mount (no mount, a horse, an elephant, or a chariot). No warrior may kill or injure a warrior who has surrendered. One who surrenders becomes a prisoner of war and a slave. No warrior may kill or injure an unarmed warrior. No warrior may kill or injure an unconscious warrior. No warrior may kill or injure a person or animal not taking part in the war. No warrior may kill or injure a warrior whose back is turned away. No warrior may attack a woman. No warrior may strike an animal not considered a direct threat. The rules specific to each weapon must be followed. For example, it is prohibited to strike below the waist in mace warfare. Warriors may not engage in any "unfair" warfare whatsoever. Most of these laws were broken at least once by both sides. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_war

Quote: Prabhupada is living? Reply: As Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura so articulately put it: He reasons ill who says that Vaishnavas die, When thou art living still in sound! The Vaishnavas die to live, and living try To spread the holy name around. Lord Jesus is a living example how one has to suffer in this material world simply for the matter of preaching the message of God. [Letter 65/11/19] So are 'Lord Jesus' and - all great vaishnava's no longer "living" - or - is it only your mind that they are dead too? There are two--vani or vapu. So vapu is physical presence and vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same. [Letter 70/06/22] There are two conceptions of presence—the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. When we enjoy or relish the vibration of Krsna’s teachings in Bhagavad-gita, or when we chant Hare Krsna, we should know that by those vibrations He is immediately present. He is absolute, and because of this His vibration is just as important as His physical presence. When we feel separation from Krsna or the spiritual master, we should just try to remember their words of instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the spiritual master should be association by vibration, not physical presence. That is real association. [Elevation to Krsna Consciousness] There are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration conception is eternal...So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krsna or of the spiritual master. Then we’ll feel happy and no separation. [sB 7.9.12, lecture] So I question what your "living guru" is teaching you about these things. Respectfully - who is your 'living guru' can I obtain and read anything he has written? Quote: Please explain why the Vedabase doens't have any new comments and advice from Srila Prabhupada for the year 2006? Reply: Please explain what is lacking in the Vedabase - what practical information isn't presented in detail? Unless you're after some irrelevant esoterica [rasa theology etc.,] - the Vedabase is the best option for a vani or a sound vibration connection to a real guru. Has your guru also produced so prolific of a vani with books lectures conversations and letters - one that can be examined in contrast to others?? Are his teachings available whenever you need or want them and for as long or short a time as you want or need each time? The Bhaktivedanta Vedabase covers all that. Quote: You ritviks don't know what it really means, when Krishna says: tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnenta sevaya upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva darshinah. Why do you think i'm a ritvik? Also I don't think that you understand this text you've quoted: Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth. [bG 4.34] Knowing vani and vapu - where is the difficulty in that? Quote: Ignorant. Blind, like owls who close their eyes when the sun comes up. Reply: I guess you would know that best...? NOTE: For those who would like to do so - there is an older easy to use free version of the complete Vedabase with all of Prabupada's books lectures conversations and letters- it is worth every moment you spend reading and using the search feature - that is what makes the Vedabase a dynamic learning experience! Download it FOR FREE here: http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?26500000037010

Prabhupada is a living guru and - what do you have against Prabhupada? Quote: Find a living Guru - soon. Reply: Any suggestions? Quote: Your foolish ideas are painful to read. Reply: Then don't...

I'm quoting Prabhupada and - he knows the "Mahabharata" better than both of us - maybe after the rules went down - like no fighting at night etc., then - these 'other' things went on - like when the mass murderer son of drona killed the sons of draupadi? Maybe it is implied that these things went on - it is said that 600 million people were killed in that war - were they all soldiers? Not likely.

Whenever there is a war, there is certainly a massacre of many innocent living beings, such as boys, brahmanas and women, whose killing is considered to be the greatest of sins. They are all innocent creatures, and in all circumstances killing of them is forbidden in the scriptures. Maharaja Yudhisthira was aware of these mass killings. Similarly, there were friends, parents and preceptors also on both sides, and all of them were killed. It was simply horrible for him to think of such killing, and therefore he was thinking of residing in hell for millions and billions of years. [sB 1.8.49, PURPORT] Prabhupada says: Whenever there is a war, there is certainly a massacre of many innocent living beings, such as boys, brahmanas and women So what does that mean then?