Bhakta Don Muntean

Would you say that I do that? Post op pieces - without any of my own thoughts?

Anyone take responsibility yet? Why not? The two leadring militant groups in Manipur have denounced this attack - so - who could have done it and - if no one takes responsibility [that's most likely] - then what?

As noted in the other posting to you by the other devotee - one must see kali yuga as the last part of a repeating cycle of seasons - in time - like winter - kali yuga or the age of quarrel - is the winter of time. It is cold in winter and just because God created the cold - does that mean that we are to interact with the cold - without coat and shoes? That kind of embracing of the winter would be much like the embracing of adharma in kali yuga - not practical and not rational.

That's perfectly okay - why shouldn't it be okay?

Blah blah blah - the event very much underscores the reasons why no one should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of Kali Yuga... My pet cause is an end to this type of activity - everywhere. Should you take some time to read my postings you'd see that I include communism in the 'things to fix' in our world -

Here is one odd news group reporting on this: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3660F8F8-6820-4266-A3FE-AA14A91B1D80.htm

In the Mahabharata narration there is the incident of the killing of Arjuna's son Abhimanyu - after that - Arjuna asked Krishna why He let that happen he asked if it was to drive him deeper into the war. There are many reasons things happen - of course - [with Krishna's help] Arjuna avenged his son's murder the very next day. Here is a synopsis of this event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhimanyu Of course at times Krishna seems to do nothing when bad things are done by bad people - but later - we can see that all offenders are cheated and taken down by His material energy... It should be noted here as well about Arjuna: ...Once, when the pandavas were still ruling over a prosperous Indraprastha, a brahmin came in great agitation to Arjuna and sought his help: a pack of cattle-thieves had seized his herd, he had recourse to none but Arjuna for a remedy. Arjuna was in a dilemma: his weaponry was in the room where Draupadi and Yudhishtira were alone together for the night, and disturbing them would incur the penalty agreed upon. Arjuna hesitated for but a moment; in his mind, coming to the aid of his subject in distress, especially a brahmin, was the raison d'etre of a prince. The prospect of exile did not deter him from fulfilling the duty of aiding the brahmin; he disturbed the conjugal couple, took up his weaponry and rode forth to subdue the cattle-thieves. Upon finishing that task, he insisted, in the teeth of opposition from his entire family, including the two people whom he had disturbed, upon going away on exile. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjuna] Where did he go in that one year exile? It was to Manipur! Some facts about Manipur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipur

That is very nice.

There was this too - just 10 days ago: http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/04/stories/2006080424750300.htm

You're a joke! Why didn't you present an answer to my question?

Exactly!

No responsibilty is yet claimed by any group but - [and i'm not saying it was for sure] it was probably Islamic fascists?! In any event - shouldn't this be a wake-up call to many devotees and even to christians - who may too become targets - in their churches. I hate to say this - but with this world wide internet it is quite possible that the world's terrorists have read postings on this site - it might be that they are sending some nasty message. Add to that - India and ISKCON are not supporters of any 'Islamic revolution' - India has good relations with Israel and America - and ISKCON has been distributing Prabhupada's books in nations like Iran - for many years. If terrorists think that such actions shall make people averse to their program come to their side then they aren't too bright - if they think that it shall make people averse to helping in the fight against terrorism - then that too isn't too bright. My prayer is that God kill those responsible - in a very cruel and painful manner! [why you ask?] How many of our devotees 'here' are going to argue that the global war on terror still has nothing to do with Vaishnavas? I wonder if the western media outlets are going to report this to the world - so far - I haven't seen anything [CNN and all of the major outlets - nada!] - of course - they think we are a cult so - I doubt that we shall hear anything? The world should see what they've done! May the Lord Protect those affected:

So what is your program to reach the islamists with krishna consciousness? Your reasoning is very utopian and not very practical. You really do miss the point in that SB 1.17.28, purport...

...and what pray tell do you think you're going to return as? Such a pointless posting you've posted huh?

Well said and - it is sad isn't it...

"Witnesses said refugees, young and old, cheered and talking of "victory against Israel." Some carried pictures of Hizbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah. Others handed out leaflets hailing the Shi'ite group's "divine victory" over Jewish state." http://ca.news./s/14082006/6/n-world-refugees-head-south-lebanon.html So very clear now isn't it - even in Lebanon no one went after the hezbollah - one might think that if they are serious as a nation - then why this lack of an effort to put an end to the strangle hold that hezbollah has on the Lebanese people. Just see these terrorists brainwashed their wards with socialism - yes they hide their evil plans within their so-called 'for the people programs' and - it's all been funded by whom? There is nothing divine inducing this ceasefire - I'm sure that God is actually leaving the 'real war' for a later day... On the matter of the picture of their 'leader' - i've been wondering this - for most orthodox muslims - the hanging of pictures is forbidden - from what I hear they won't even hang pictures of family on the wall - [see http://experts.about.com/q/Islam-947/tasveer.htm] - so why are all these middle eastern Islamist leaders having their picture hung on every street corner - it's kinda odd if not narcissistic! Could it be that they are seeking adorations? Could it be a violation of their own rules about idol worship? Is it to intimidate their wards? Why don't we don't see the western leaders slapping up their pictures everywhere in public [except during elections]? [url="http://216.109.124.98/search/cache?p=muslims+and+hanging+photographs&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t340&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D&u=experts.about.com/q/Islam-947/tasveer.htm&w=muslims+hanging+photographs&d=Yy2KpGP9NQBu&icp=1&.intl=ca%5D"]

Hare Krishna! So you seem to make a good case but - I think you've missed the point... "To be honest I'm quite fed up of getting slapped in the face with the apologetic holocaust everytime someone points a critical finger at the Israelis." Well that doesn't happen in these discussions - so why would that matter here to you? One could say that there are those of us who are 'quite fed up of getting slapped in the face' with zionist this and zionist that - everytime we express a broader perspective of the facts of this [and the broader] conflict. Can you deny that there so many people who won't even listen to the truth because they have become convinced of that all that - "the Jews control the world" garbage? I'm quite sick of seeing that there are still millions of people in North America [what to speak of the rest of the world] that seem to think that the extermination of Jews by nazis was a sham or - is now otherwise 'over-hyped' - it really is sad you know. The reason that memory of this cannot go away is because the world is still persecuting Jews [or souls in Jewish bodies if you like:rolleyes:] - maybe with words at this time - but - can it turn worse again? So not to intend any disrespect to you but I think that having the mindset that you do about the Nazi pogrom isn't a very mature nor realistic position for a devotee of Vishnu. "...and just like in the days of Hiranyakasipu there is nothing you or I can do about it." But there is - and educating as many people as possible with facts [however temporal they may be] prevents ignorance from spreading and - it is ignorance that is the fertile ground in which things are growing out of control. Here is what Prabhupada says about it: This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali [sB 1.17.28, purport] So Prabhupada seems to think that - the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord - can do something about these problems. You say they are all bad guys and that simply isn't true either. All a matter of perspective? Hare Krishna!

You're right - the only resolve we see is the resolve to not be resolved - much like all the unavailing U.N. resolutions... At some point it has to change.

I agree - cent percent!

So you're back here - did you reply to my other postings directed to you in the thread you opened? Also in saying what you have - it is clear that you're rooting for the hezbollah terrorists - isn't that so?! You wrote - "you want Israel to kill more people?" - and - "Israel started the war" - such clear words - with obvious leanings to the wrong side....

So there is going to be a ceasefire soon - however - the terrorists are not properly dealt with yet - the disarming of hezbollah is something that will not take place if things are settled in this fashion - it seems to me that the 'free world' has dropped the ball as it were in leaving Israel to have to fight this battle on their own. So where is the global resolve to solve these problems? So in any event the issue is in how to get these [all] terrorists to reform their understandings? How shall that happen?

Better to chant 16 and then do some practical service...

That is bunk! We don’t even demand you say “Krsna.” You can say “jehovah.” you can say “Yahweh.” You can chant the names of God. [sB 5.5.1, lecture] Visnujana: They will say Yahweh is God. Prabhupada: No, Yahweh, what is...? That is the name? Visnujana: Name. “I am that...” It means in English, “I am that I am.” Prajapati: Some people translate that as jehovah. Visnujana: jehovah. Prajapati: But it’s the same word. In fact, everyone agrees they do not know what the real name is. Some say Yahweh; some say jehovah. The Jewish tradition replaces completely and says Adonai, instead. Prabhupada: That’s all right. He may not say. But we have to take from the meaning. What is the meaning? Visnujana: “No one is beyond Me.” Prabhupada: That’s all right. “No one is beyond Me.” Then he comes to our conclusion, all-attractive. ['Conversations with devotees on theology' April 01, 1975] The fact is the real meaning of Yahweh into english is 'I will be whomever I will be' - not just 'I am that I am' - or whatever we see it as in various bibles. So do you think that Prabhupada would accept that "yhwh is the demiurg, [demiurge: a subordinate being] not the true God, a evil being" - judging from those quotes - i do doubt it. Hari Bolo!

Which ones are thoze? I haven't seen any anti-arab postings on this site...

You're throwing the good apples out with the bad... Please don't compare the present circumstances to those of five thousand years ago. Sure things are quite different - original rules are out the window [long ago] but does that make 'a case' for those who wish to imprint the islamic revolution on a global scale? That is the point of the fighting - that has hijacked the Palestinian people and their conflict - gone from 'yes they can live with a two state settlement - but - not now - no - there is the growing desire and movements [like electing Hamas] to completely wipe out the state of Israel! Without a doubt - I don't think one may be called anti-semite for having a position against the state of Israel - but that is not exactly the issue in these discussions. The issue that underlies this is that too many people feel that the state of Israel is illegitimate [they feel this due to the hard work of propagandists] and that there was [and is] a global jewish conspiracy behind it and - much more. In my postings - for years [and not just here] I admonished Israel for how it was handling the conflict - that material is there for all to see - and of course that did not make me an anti-semite! Now - had i had a position of thinking that the state was ill created by a global jewish conspiracy then that might have made me ignorant enough to be prone to anti-semitic understandings of history. In fact many people who are not anti-semite do actually ascribe to anti-semitic understandings. For example - these discussions have usually turned to critical bashing of Hebrew texts and - out-of-context of course! I have shown in my postings many points - including - how the Hebrew texts use the same word for soul when describing humans and animals - I have also shown that the sacrifical practices are not really Hebrew in origin and how in the messianic age it shall be a time of no meat eating - even for wild cats like lions. Of course - in the Hebrew prophesies about the messianic age there are clear descriptions of a multi-faith and multi-national world - not some Jewish world order! Facts must be complete don't you think? Hari Bolo!